Amount of Shadows/Assassins in WZs now

[Caelrie]

Wahwahwah Im dps and I should be able to kill tanks and healers wahwahwah!

 

If you're a sent/mara, you can. Easily, in fact.

[Varicite]

If you're a sent/mara, you can. Easily, in fact.

 

I don't have a problem w/ anything outside of a Commando healer as a Pyro PT. I hear Ops can do a number on healers as well, though I don't have one.

 

Healers aren't invincible in this game, but multiple healers can definitely seem that way.

[heikaze]

I agree. Your statement is reinforced by the fact that Kinetic Combat is the worst tank in PvE and all of the problems incumbent on it from that environment translate to PvP (terrible static damage reduction, terrible defensive cooldowns, terrible offensive cooldowns, no good emergency buttons, a primary "mitigation" mechanic that scales terribly -- self-healing, etc.).

 

The problem we are seeing is arising from the fact that so many people have re-rolled into FotM Sentinels/Marauders, which is a class that Kinetic Combat/Darkness eats alive. Sents/Maras have very, very few methods of stopping the Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning channel and the only decent defensive cooldown that the Shadow/Assassin has (50% increased defense) actually WORKS against Sents/Maras.

 

So all these re-rolls are crying about their counterclass now -- a class they used to destroy on their Sages/Sorcs and Scrappers/Operatives -- and they think the class has somehow been significantly buffed or changed. In reality there has been only one significant buff: Slow Time/Wither adds a stack of Harnessed Shadows/Darkness. Every other change has been either a nerf (Spinning Kick, Particle Acceleration) or a sidegrade (Combat Technique).

 

Please, since you brought this topic into 1v1. Let me know which class can beat Assassin/Shadows in 1v1?

[Caelrie]

I hear Ops can do a number on healers as well, though I don't have one.

That was true two months and 9 nerfs ago.

[Karandor]

I agree. Your statement is reinforced by the fact that Kinetic Combat is the worst tank in PvE and all of the problems incumbent on it from that environment translate to PvP (terrible static damage reduction, terrible defensive cooldowns, terrible offensive cooldowns, no good emergency buttons, a primary "mitigation" mechanic that scales terribly -- self-healing, etc.).

 

The problem we are seeing is arising from the fact that so many people have re-rolled into FotM Sentinels/Marauders, which is a class that Kinetic Combat/Darkness eats alive. Sents/Maras have very, very few methods of stopping the Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning channel and the only decent defensive cooldown that the Shadow/Assassin has (50% increased defense) actually WORKS against Sents/Maras.

 

So all these re-rolls are crying about their counterclass now -- a class they used to destroy on their Sages/Sorcs and Scrappers/Operatives -- and they think the class has somehow been significantly buffed or changed. In reality there has been only one significant buff: Slow Time/Wither adds a stack of Harnessed Shadows/Darkness. Every other change has been either a nerf (Spinning Kick, Particle Acceleration) or a sidegrade (Combat Technique).

 

Ahahahahahahahaha............

 

 

I love how you don't mention force shroud (no idea what repub side is called) that is the single best PvP defensive CD in the game. 5s of immunity to force and tech for 5s every 45 is incredible.

 

 

If you lose to operatives (after the nerf) or sorcs as a tank spec assassin you are extremely bad at playing your class. You should beat pretty much everything except some VGs/PTs 1v1. You can be 100% immune to a sorc or op for 5s and that is an eternity in PvP.

 

That buff to tanksins was more than small, it increased damage on wither by about 15%, added a 30% slow (AE and lasts 15s!) and made it give harnessed darkness. That buff is what made tanksins what they are right now. Before that buff harnessed darkness required 3 shocks and 3 shocks only which, depending on luck with procs, often took 8-12 seconds + a ton more energy used doing thrash. Now it is guaranteed after 6s.

 

If you play right (which most assassins don't) you shock, wither, thrash, if proc shock if not sabre strike, shock (if you didn't get proc), now you have 3 stacks. DON'T FL YET. Then you thrash until a proc (generally 2 at most), use reckless and all buffs, FL, then shock. The FL should do 8k total if on a non-heavy armor user and the shock afterward will hit for 2.5k+. That's a 4s burst of over (FL + shock) 10k. That's WAY WAY WAY more than the burst of any other tank spec except maybe a lucky parakeet build VG/PT, which won't exist after 1.2. This is also assuming you play in DPS gear, which you should.

 

That is why people want tanksins nerfed, the damage is so much higher than any other tank build it's pretty laughable. We have great CC, great utilty, great survivability and great damage. Then we use vanish to get away and people get angry.

 

I play my VG more now but when I played my assassin I knew it was OP, not a ton, but enough. Just like I know playing assault spec VG is even MORE OP and I don't even have the eliminator set, I generally play tactics or IF builds.

[Rasheth]

Ahahahahahahahaha............

 

 

I love how you don't mention force shroud (no idea what repub side is called) that is the single best PvP defensive CD in the game. 5s of immunity to force and tech for 5s every 45 is incredible.

 

 

If you lose to operatives (after the nerf) or sorcs as a tank spec assassin you are extremely bad at playing your class. You should beat pretty much everything except some VGs/PTs 1v1. You can be 100% immune to a sorc or op for 5s and that is an eternity in PvP.

 

That buff to tanksins was more than small, it increased damage on wither by about 15%, added a 30% slow (AE and lasts 15s!) and made it give harnessed darkness. That buff is what made tanksins what they are right now. Before that buff harnessed darkness required 3 shocks and 3 shocks only which, depending on luck with procs, often took 8-12 seconds + a ton more energy used doing thrash. Now it is guaranteed after 6s.

 

If you play right (which most assassins don't) you shock, wither, thrash, if proc shock if not sabre strike, shock (if you didn't get proc), now you have 3 stacks. DON'T FL YET. Then you thrash until a proc (generally 2 at most), use reckless and all buffs, FL, then shock. The FL should do 8k total if on a non-heavy armor user and the shock afterward will hit for 2.5k+. That's a 4s burst of over (FL + shock) 10k. That's WAY WAY WAY more than the burst of any other tank spec except maybe a lucky parakeet build VG/PT, which won't exist after 1.2. This is also assuming you play in DPS gear, which you should.

 

That is why people want tanksins nerfed, the damage is so much higher than any other tank build it's pretty laughable. We have great CC, great utilty, great survivability and great damage. Then we use vanish to get away and people get angry.

 

I play my VG more now but when I played my assassin I knew it was OP, not a ton, but enough. Just like I know playing assault spec VG is even MORE OP and I don't even have the eliminator set, I generally play tactics or IF builds.

 

AHAHAHA

 

Funny how you mention all those things you should do correctly as if you are playing against a dummy target. Cause other classes are going to stand there while you execute your rotation to perfection, they are not going to put down any of their defensive cool downs at all. Like bubbles, saber ward, or cc you in the process. Nope don't have to worry about force costs at all people just stand there in warzones.

 

 

Harnessed Shadows cannot be interrupted but you can cc/knockback to stop the cast.

 

Its like not using cc on a sorc if your interrupt is on cooldown. Or only interrupting a Bounty Hunter when your interrupt is up cause thats the only way to stop tracer missiles right? Just the interrupt.

 

Meanwhile you have popped just about everything you have available. If you engage someone else immediately after that fight just unload burst on that one target. You are probably force starved and have either 1 or both of defensive cooldown not available.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Rasheth

[Acindo]

Assassin Tanks have burst? Hahaha

 

These posts where people don't know the class they are complaining about are so great!

 

Anyway, I rerolled from Assassin to Scoundrel and I'm having a blast.

 

Bottom line, I am not an avid pvp player. I am not a warzone educator, I play for fun. I rerolled a shadow cause i heard they are pretty beast. At lvl 16 I am doing 100k dmg and 10-15k healing to myself. I can solo fight someone thats lvl 39 and beat them at lvl 16. Etc etc etc

 

Yea pre 50 PvP means about nothing.

 

That is untrue. I have 16k health and yesterday a Assassin hit me for 12k so you are wrong.

 

Matter of fact the next 4 WZ I got hit for 10k to 14k very often. So again lie.

 

Wow.. Just.. Wow. No class in this game has ever hit for 12k. Pre Biochem nerf Scoundrels/Ops could get over 8K maybe some people hit 10K on level 10s when they had Battlemaster gear.

 

I think I know what happened. You got hit for 1200 and thought it was 12K. Thats the only plausible excuse.

 

Really just tank spec Shadow/Assassins that are OP. The damage spec ones are squishy as hell. Why would you play a squishy spec when you can go tank and put out just as much damage?

 

Actually a Tank Assassin will usually have more OVERALL damage because its AoE damage.

 

Single target damage they can't compare to DPS Sins.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Acindo

[ShadowOfVey]

For those getting dominated by geared tankasins in 1 on 1, my best advice is to hold onto those knockbacks, stuns, etc for when they go for 3 stack lightning.

 

It takes some time to setup (and they probably popped recklessness if it isn't on CD). When they do, that's when you stun/knockback or whatever you've got that'll break the cast. Even if they only hit you for 1 tick of lightning, if you break the cast, they'll lose their stacks and have to start over again. This isn't like interrupting a healer with a knockback where they just start casting the spell again as soon as they recover. The stacks are lost and it'll be a while before you see the lightning again.

 

If you are diligent about that, the fight is a lot more manageable.

 

Of course that's easier for some classes than others, depending on how many different mez/stun/knockback etc tools you have that will break the cast (ordinary 4 sec lockout interrupt doesn't work of course). If you're a spec that doesn't have multiple ways available to break the cast, be careful with what you've got.

 

I've noticed many players hit the panic button as soon as they get touched, which might be a problem for them later on when they stand there and eat the full lightning...possibly multiple times depending on the length of the fight. Don't do that. Be patient, fight normally and wait for the lightning, then counter it.

 

You might see your hps drop faster than you'd like early. We are not going to sustain that, we're just blowing our force bar early to get 2 stacks of charges from using shock and wither on you. From then on the damage coming in is not going to be severe at all unless we outgear you and/or blew adrenal/relic or something like that. So don't freak out when you lose some hps early and decide its time to use every CC tool you have in a row to get us off you. If you do, what's going to happen is we'll just come right back on you anyway, with 3 stacks, pop recklessness and just unload the whole thing into you without you doing anything about it. It won't kill you but it'll hurt, then it'll just be a matter of time. Without help, you will die.

 

Also, since it's force lightning, it can be LOS'd (which again, wastes their stacks). And again, time and time again I'll be fighting someone near a civil war turret or something, start channeling full stack lightning on them...and they just keep running around me wanting to duke it out even though they could have easily slipped behind the turret and denied several ticks. Melee especially like doing this, as though they're going to "prove" they can outbrawl you. Don't do it.

 

If you try to just go toe to toe with them and trade blows, there's a high likelyhood you're going to lose. So play smart. Consistently counter the lightning and your win rate against assassins will go way up. One of the easiest ways for me to spot a good player is how they react to being hit by lightning. Some people I fight, the lightning will barely even touch them before they knock me on my *** with something. They knew it was coming and were ready to counter it. Let that be you.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited March 30, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[Maxkardinal]

Why so surprised that so many things are bad? You guys are playing a bad game. Edited March 30, 2012 by Maxkardinal

[sumfizz]

definitely an over powered class. i say this because i actually have a shadow. easily get 9-10 medals a game. it's a total joke.

 

then again it's appropriate given that the game is a joke as well.

 

the ability to get medals hardly makes it over-powered. the medal system is flawed to begin with. You need a better argument.

[GrandMike]

Why so surprised that so many things are bad? You guys are playing a bad game.

 

Best sig ever - everyone should watch it

[Astarica]

People who say they can interrupt Force Lightning must be playing against 27/0/14 and not 31/0/10. You can't even get good positions to interrupt anything when you're permanently snared and the Assassin is always standing about 9m away from you, making him automatically immune to any KBs because they don't reach that far. If you want to use stun, stun stops any attack in this game so that's really not saying much. Pretty much the only time my FL gets interrupted by KB is by someone I'm not currently attacking and that's stuff beyond my control.

 

The buff to Wither is really overkill. It would've been fine with just the snare or just the HD stack, but not both.

 

And I don't know why people even talk about burst DPS on Sage survivality range characters. They pretty much die instantly to any top tier DPS's normal DPS moves. The only reason to ever burst on a medium armor or lower target (not counting Marauders) is for the humor value.

[ShadowOfVey]

People who say they can interrupt Force Lightning must be playing against 27/0/14 and not 31/0/10. You can't even get good positions to interrupt anything when you're permanently snared and the Assassin is always standing about 9m away from you, making him automatically immune to any KBs because they don't reach that far. If you want to use stun, stun stops any attack in this game so that's really not saying much. Pretty much the only time my FL gets interrupted by KB is by someone I'm not currently attacking and that's stuff beyond my control.

 

The buff to Wither is really overkill. It would've been fine with just the snare or just the HD stack, but not both.

 

And I don't know why people even talk about burst DPS on Sage survivality range characters. They pretty much die instantly to any top tier DPS's normal DPS moves. The only reason to ever burst on a medium armor or lower target (not counting Marauders) is for the humor value.

 

That's their fault if they aren't interrupting it. As you said, it's 9m (or less). Wither is a 30% slow, it doesn't slow them THAT much. At worst you're talking about eating the 2nd tick of lightning before covering the distance and using some sort of close range move. The assassin is standing still while channeling it, so it's a constant.

 

If I can interrupt it, so can anyone else. It isn't as though I'm using some fancy tricks. They hit me with lightning, I walk forward and interrupt it. Mostly people end up trying to walk around and through me doing god knows what while I cast it, when the correct play was just hitting the right button.

Edited March 30, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[FourTwent]

Seriously it's the new form and its so annoying. Stealth, burst and a tank stance? The worst is that damage immune crap. Maras and assassins should not be able to go immune to damage without their owb dropping diwn to nil.

 

Only thing I can think of is Operatives/scoundrels preparing for the 1.2 nerf so they're re-rolling sin/shadows. Unless you're talking about lvl 50 warzones, then I would assume these are from those previous operative/scoundrels that re-rolled from the 2nd big hit to them.

 

Then again, they said the operative/scoundrel playerbase was always low. . .so it couldn't have made that much of an influx. But this plus the rumors of them being the new FoTM class could be contributing to it.

 

Personally I haven't seen anything different, other than more Sentinel/Marauders.

[ShadowOfVey]

Funny thing is on my server when I mess around on alts in WZs I'm seeing more new snipers than new marauders.

 

I guess a combination of liking what they heard about the 1.2 snipers along with countering marauders =P

[Koolmea]

Just another Assassin thread...as usual there must be some l2p dude that gets facerolled and comes to forums to complain about a profession.

Every class has a nerf thread....wow amazing, it just shows us how retarded people can be. im not complaining about any class, I just learn to counter them.

You should do that..instead of QQ'ing all over the forums.

Makes me sick!

[Astarica]

Funny thing is on my server when I mess around on alts in WZs I'm seeing more new snipers than new marauders.

 

I guess a combination of liking what they heard about the 1.2 snipers along with countering marauders =P

 

Snipers can put up good WZ numbers but they get countered rather hard by Darkness Assassin too, since rooting a Darkness Assassin is pretty much a complete waste of a CD.

 

For your earlier post about interrupting a FL, if you stop a FL at 2 ticks (fairly normal occurence) that makes the attack from ridiculous good to rotation-move level. However since it's got a 6s cooldown, it's not exactly a bad trade (you use a CC, Assassin gains some resolve at the cost of temporarily brought back to Earth). An interrupted FL is only costly if it's 3 stacks because it basically takes twice the time to charge up to 3 stacks compared to 2 (at least for 31/0/10). If you have to use leap again that's a pretty good trade, not necessarily for the Assassin himself (he's certainly not bothered by having to melee) but rather for all the healer/ranged DPS on your team who now has one less leap to worry about.

 

I find the fact that you've to give up so much cooldowns just to deal with an Assassin to be the most overpowered part of the character, not the fancy number people can pile up. You basically have to treat FL like a major attack, except FL has only a cooldown of 6s. I actually feel more powerless while 1on1 because the best that can possibly happen is I kill that guy, and if the enemy is a tough matchup (say, Marauder) that's not even guaranteed. But in 1 versus many I can easily waste a lot of people's CD and DPS by myself. For example say you got a 3on3, 3 guys focus fire on you, you pop Force Shroud and absorb most of their burst DPS. Assuming this is an even fight, your team should be comfortably ahead by this alone. If an enemy interrupted my FL, they're not interrupting my healer's heal or my merc's tracer missiles, and I'll gladly trade a FL for that, considering you also have to burn significant CCs to interrupt FL (note that anything that can interrupt FL definitely can interrupt anything else since FL is immune to normal interrupts).

 

I actually think Arsenal Mercs are the best counter to Darkness. Now people will say "I beat those guys 101% of the time (on flat terrain)" and sure that's true. The problem is that you can't let even a weak Arsenal pile 5 stacks of TM on you because the armor debuff will bring you back to the realm of the mere mortals, so this isn't someone you can ignore. They're not hard to kill but they're definitely pretty resilent so far as DPS goes. You might even have to use Force Shroud against them if they don't suck.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Astarica

[Jimra]

Anyone who thinks tank assassins aren't going to be nerfed is setting themselves up for a massive disappointment.

 

They were one of the best classes pre 1.2 and with most others being nerfed they will be even better. God knows why they were spared but I'm willing to put money they will be next.

[Astarica]

Anyone who thinks tank assassins aren't going to be nerfed is setting themselves up for a massive disappointment.

 

They were one of the best classes pre 1.2 and with most others being nerfed they will be even better. God knows why they were spared but I'm willing to put money they will be next.

 

As long as it happens after I get my rated War Hero gear.

 

I rolled a Merc and a Sorc for backup since I figured it was inevitable Darkness gets nerfed, but that prediction turned out to be spectcularly wrong.

[Wohast]

In other words, you were talking out of your rear since Project isn't doing 12k to 14k. Or is it 10k now? You keep walking the damage back down. Soon you'll be saying it was 5k.

 

He said the exact same thing that I did, and you're telling me I don't know my class.

 

Lol.

 

And you said it was 14k at first, now it's 10k. Interesting.

 

 

since apparently 99% of shadows/sins dont know how to properly use their class, heres a quick video to show you the type of damage a GOOD shadow can do with ease.

 

16,291 dmg in ~4 seconds aka 100% health to 0% health. 1v1 duel, i got the best gear on for my class, so does he. but im sure most of you will be saying im just some scrub valor 89 scoundrel in greens lol. obviously im standing still letting him do his burst for the video not trying to fight back.

 

we both are only using our class self buffs.

 

http://youtu.be/XQTjNk8gc4I

 

all you get to see is health bar. im not here to teach you scrubs how to use your class, im only here to open your eyes.

 

but hey this kinda damage is working as intended, scoundrels need another nerf imo lolol

 

call the video a fake, call me a troll...could care less. at the end of the day im on a completely diff lvl then 99% of you nubs.

 

**its a 1v1 duel in ord mantel. go look at the floor if you want lol. watch it in HD if you wanna see the hitpoints, thank god you didnt use the ******* argument of "YOURE NAKED". as ive said im not here to prove my credibility to you all. believe it or not, i really dont give a **** im about to be Warlord tomorrow, im happy with my epeen.

 

im not showing how its done because then every one of you scrubs will be out making videos showing off your OMGZ DMG, which will result in it getting nerfed. im not showing the name of the guy doing it because obv anyone with a brain would wanna keep this to themselves. jump to ~page 11/12 of this thread if you want more details**

Edited March 30, 2012 by Wohast

[Britneyfears]

since apparently 99% of shadows/sins dont know how to properly use their class, heres a quick video to show you the type of damage a GOOD shadow can do with ease.

 

16,291 dmg in ~4 seconds aka 100% health to 0% health. 1v1 duel, i got the best gear on for my class, so does he. but im sure most of you will be saying im just some scrub valor 89 scoundrel in greens lol. obviously im standing still letting him do his burst for the video not trying to fight back.

 

we both are only using our class self buffs.

 

http://youtu.be/XQTjNk8gc4I

 

all you get to see is health bar. im not here to teach you scrubs how to use your class, im only here to open your eyes.

 

but hey this kinda damage is working as intended, scoundrels need another nerf imo lolol

 

The video shows ONLY that you go down very fast, not to what damage, 1 player or maybe 10. What spec did this alleged shadow have?

 

Not saying I don't believe you, but you can make anything out of this video. Next thing you know you'll be posting a video with a live yeti, with some vague blur 10 kilometres from you and your camera.

 

If you are going to claim something WITH a video, at least make sure it actuallys shows what you claim, besides going down as fast as you did.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Britneyfears

[Wohast]

The video shows ONLY that you go down very fast, not to what damage, 1 player or maybe 10. What spec did this alleged shadow have?

 

Not saying I don't believe you, but you can make anything out of this video. Next thing you know you'll be posting a video with a live yeti, with some vague blur 10 kilometres from you and your camera.

 

If you are going to claim something WITH a video, at least make sure it actuallys shows what you claim, besides going down as fast as you did.

 

its a 1v1 duel in ord mantel. go look at the floor if you want lol. watch it in HD if you wanna see the hitpoints, thank god you didnt use the ******* argument of "YOURE NAKED". as ive said im not here to prove my credibility to you all. believe it or not, i really dont give a **** im about to be Warlord tomorrow, im happy with my epeen.

 

im not showing how its done because then every one of you scrubs will be out making videos showing off your OMGZ DMG, which will result in it getting nerfed. im not showing the name of the guy doing it because obv anyone with a brain would wanna keep this to themselves. jump to ~page 11/12 of this thread if you want more details

Edited March 30, 2012 by Wohast

[JediDuckling]

Seriously it's the new form and its so annoying. Stealth, burst and a tank stance? The worst is that damage immune crap. Maras and assassins should not be able to go immune to damage without their owb dropping diwn to nil.

 

 

out of all the overpowerd and things that actualy need fixing you are crying about assasin/shadow ?

 

 

are you freaking kidding me ?

 

 

sorce/sages trooper/bh dps are the problem lol

 

 

i cant even beleive your complaining about assasins im laughing at this thread so hard.

 

is it because you cant kill an assasin with your overpowerd broken class/specs or is it the fact they can kill you as an assasin/shadow because your bad ?

 

i cant kill shadows/assasins in 3 shots so i dont know what you are all crying about.

 

 

i do agree with all tanks across the board need a damage nerf though as tanks right now are doing far to much damage its not just assasin/shadow tanks.

[Asphen]

Nerfffffffff Shadows!

[Koolmea]

Nerfffffffff Shadows!

 

Nerf yourself mate...if this is the only thing you can add to this thread ...