Read my post again man if thats what you are referring to. Not everyone in here is attacking you. Look at the underlined sentence

AHAHAHA Funny how you mention all those things you should do correctly as if you are playing against a dummy target. Cause other classes are going to stand there while you execute your rotation to perfection, they are not going to put down any of their defensive cool downs at all. Like bubbles, saber ward, or cc you in the process. Nope don't have to worry about force costs at all people just stand there in warzones. Harnessed Shadows cannot be interrupted but you can cc/knockback to stop the cast. Its like not using cc on a sorc if your interrupt is on cooldown. Or only interrupting a Bounty Hunter when your interrupt is up cause thats the only way to stop tracer missiles right? Just the interrupt. Meanwhile you have popped just about everything you have available. If you engage someone else immediately after that fight just unload burst on that one target. You are probably force starved and have either 1 or both of defensive cooldown not available.

I can't believe BW hasn't nerfed shadows yet. I think they should make the following changes. Shadow All Techniques now cost 100 Force. Kinetic Combat Technique Mastery: No longer increases the duration of Force Technique's Breach effect. It now increases the damage dealt by Force Technique. Particle Acceleration: This skill now also triggers from Spinning Strike. It now triggers from damage dealt (rather than ability use) such that each hit of Spinning Strike, Double Strike, and Whirling blow have an individual chance to yield the Particle Acceleration buff. The chance to trigger has been reduced to 30% per hit, and it now properly increases the critical damage dealt by Project when a Force Potency charge is consumed. Harnessed Shadows: Stacks of Harnessed Shadows now last 30 seconds. Using Slow Time now yields a stack of Harnessed Shadows. Infiltration Circling Shadows: Now requires the purchase of the Shadow Technique skill. Shadow Technique must be active in order to trigger the Circling Shadows buff. This skill now also triggers from Spinning Strike. I would have made these changes last month if I worked at BW!! I think these changes to the class help balance it. Hybrid builds seem to strong to much dps output. Discuss

what a 2 second stun from guardians? hardly anything a sage has. regardless you can't compare Sages and Shadows in a vacuum. to many variables. Do sages have anything like Sever Force Instant Force: 20 Cooldown: 9s Range: 30 m Weakens the target, freezing it in place for 2 seconds and dealing 854 internal damage over 18 seconds. Again can't compare in a vacuum. And beta was so long ago. Did you know shadows could change stances without it costing 100 force back in beta. No one complained but it was changed. A 30m project on all specs for shadows obviously something was wrong with it. Thats why it was changed. If I had a 30m project in infiltration spec I definitely would have stayed infil spec. 30m project in kinetic spec Hmmm so it would go Here comes high Pri target. Project, force potency, relic, telekinetic throw (im in full stalker gear so I have 3 charges) project. They are getting close now. 30m stun or should I use kick? dont want to fill that resolve bar lets get them close probably should pop resilence. Kick, slow time, force speed away to safe distance if i choose, project. Telekinetic throw. Uh oh here they come 30m stun (time to start building up harnessed shadows since I already have the life lead might aswell heal the little damage they have done to me. By the time a full melee range engagement has taken place you probably have force potency close to back up or your relic. This scenario is ok for you?

Please THINK about balance a little better before proposing a change. You don't compare a Sage and a Shadow and say Sage has it why cant shadow. To many variables. By your logic I can say I should have a Bubble cause sage has one. Sages don't put out the kind of SINGLE TARGET damage a shadow does by the same token sages dont have resilence. I can still stun a sage in a bubble I can't stun a shadow who has popped resilence. These 2 abilities alone make the classes totally different is what you fail to comprehend based on your thoughts to balance. Sever Force Instant Force: 20 Cooldown: 9s Range: 30 m Weakens the target, freezing it in place for 2 seconds and dealing 854 internal damage over 18 seconds. Add that in with your change of a 30m project and tell me why that doesnt seem OP? Kiting almost infinitely by the time your target gets to you. You can auto attack them for the kill forget spinning strike having to spend force for spinning strike.

How can you find this OP? What classes are you being attacked by you can't just say I was attacked by 3 people killed 1 and held till others came. A powertech can do the same thing a sentinal/marauder in watchmen spec also can probably pull of the same thing given the right 3 classes coming to attack. Lets say the 3 people that come to cap the node are all 3 PT healing specced are you going to kill them all? lets say 1 is a bh 2 are healers are you going to kill them? On my server we have a Guardian at 20k hp he can definitely hold 3 people off till help comes not to mention that your team can take a direct speeder to the point to back up if they are dead. Called defenders advantage. Now if your team sends a infiltration assassin to single guard a node he might kill one depending if its another squishy class but he is gonna die quick. Long story short if you are having anything other than a tank single defend a node in alderaan then your team is bad.

Your change would break Infiltration and make it OP. A self heal on infiltration you have to be kidding right? 30m project to balance tree what? Hey let me sever force and 30m project you all day come on man you havent thought that one through at all.

If you been playing shadow/assassin from the beginning you know the timeline. 2/31/8 was standard play for a while when stance switching was allowed you could adjust on the fly and off tank effectively. They NERFED stance switching and made some talents impossible to work with other stances killing the majority of the hybrid specs. By nerfing stance switching it really brought the light of how squishy infiltration is. So majority switched to kinetic for a loss in DPS, but increased survivability and utility. one hybrid spec really remains viable. Infiltration dies fast- deals alot of damage on single target 31/0/10 kinetic- owns in 1v1 against most classes but thats because it has OK damage (single target) but has the worst mitigation and defense rating of all the tanks. (this isnt a 1v1 game and isnt balanced around it see sentinel/marauder) Balance tree will give you good scoreboard numbers but anyone with have a brain that knows how the class works, realizes that those are mostly dot/aoe numbers. Many people will argue that dot/aoe damage isnt as effective as burst to kill - debatable Balance shined when you need someone to hold a point by themselves when DOTS stopped capping but that isnt the case anymore So it all comes down to preference shadows/assassins are balanced but there is no possible way to increased survivability for infil and balance with out making them truly OP. TL&DR If BW did a nerf/buff to any of the trees for shadows/assassins something would break If survivability was increased on Infiltration and Balance tree why would anyone play a kinetic? out side of guard or force pull? Decrease survivability of Kinetic and you have a totally worthless tank class that already is the worse tank when it comes to pure tanking. Have to think of pve here also people. Increase damage on infiltration? not a option Increase damage on balance? not a option So since some people think the class needs a change I have yet to see anyone propose anything that doesnt ruin it completely.

why not go with 31/0/10 I dont see anything that you have that I dont really. You dont have slow time. you dont get the 9% critical but again you dont have slow time which is a really really good 31 point talent.

Thank you posted this early on in this same thread links to dulfy people just dont take the time to educate themselves

There is also nothing stopping anyone with champ gear taking the expertise mods out of the recruit and putting them in their champ gear. to compensate for the difference in expertise.

Buy recruit gear take the expertise mods out of recruit gear place them in your champ gear. The expertise is spread across all mods now. There you go increase in expertise at the cost of a primary stat of course but thats what is happening to the bm gear too. Increase in expertise loss in primary stat.

Here you go again Expertise Stat Change 1.2 with GRAPH CHAMP GEAR DIDNT GET NERFED ITS JUST UNTOUCHED. Basically by your logic. If BW BUFFED CENTURION GEAR TO BETTER COMPETE = NERF TO CHAMP Champ gear is going away you can't get it anymore at all. BM gear is still going to be available. Why buff gear thats not available? If your so worried about it take the expertise out of recruit gear and put the mods in your champ gear to compensate whats so hard about this? It only cost some credits If you have champ gear anyway you probably have modded your gear or at least you should have.

get the current champ gear. the difference in expertise is only 4.3 % pvp bonus difference in favor of recruit Recruit-------------------------Champ endurance 777---------------1013 willpower 758------------------914 power 180----------------------216 alacrity 294---------------------336 crit 309--------------------------361 surge 126-----------------------96 force power 1136-------------1210 expertise 848------------------602 pvp bonus 17.419------------13.108

bump for addition of the graph showing difference between recruit and current champ. Looks like its still superior to me. 4.3% difference in pvp bonus? Ill take the current over recruit any day coupled with the set bonus champ has and recruit doesnt.