cuteypie Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) im really interested in rotations now, how often can you replace flurry pre 1.2 with quickshot in post 1.2 while maintaining 65 energy? Also if we are using more white dmg, will accuracy be needed, atleast in a pve enviroment? edit: looked at parse-picture and realised accuracy is still a useless stat i guess. Edited March 21, 2012 by cuteypie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaglorArcanist Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I do play a 50 Scoundrel. I have full Rakata and Battlemasters. Preliminary evidence, posted earlier in this thread, shows the Scoundrel DPS is comparable to Sentinel DPS, post-1.2. (However, there's a legitimate concern that without Force Leap, your actual dps in a raid scenario is lower.) That's not an argument against balancing the classes. I just wish people would stop with the ridiculous hyperbole. A sentinel witout stim and adrenal can do better than us... on a test target who stil stand. In a mobile enviroment with stun, knokbak, and utility in the table and adrenals and stim what we have? Serius... we still in the same spot. less damage, less utility, less survival, all binded on a stealth mechaninc. Edited March 21, 2012 by MaglorArcanist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) A sentinel witout stim and adrenal can do better than us... on a test target who stil stand. In a mobile enviroment with stun, knokbak, and utility in the table and adrenals and stim what we have? Serius... we still in the same spot. less damage, less utility, less survival, all binded on a stealth mechaninc. This guy hit the nail on the head. A sentinel without stims, on a target that doesn't move is still doing more damage than a scoundrel!? That means that the difference in real encounters is going to be HUGE. Now when you take the sentinel's survivability and great group utility in the equation scoundrels just look silly weak in comparison. Edited March 21, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiazabi Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Thank you for the very nice comparison of pre/post skills with values. But it seems abit as i feared the whole tree is just swapped a bit around, with mostly nerfs. With the added CD to shoot first they could consider making it useable out of stealth on targets below or at 30% hp so we have a finisher like other classes. This would actually help alot in pve boss fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdertrane Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Thanks for the work Pedia. I don't have the stomach for testing changes anymore (ty WoW PTR) so you guys who do it earn my appreciation. Not sure how all this mess is going to work out, but we all appreciate the effort in trying to at least make some sense of it. Keep on truckin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 2- One of the stappler of the rotation , backblast just took a 3sec cooldown more with a small increase in dps. . it did not get an 'increase in dps' it got a 'decrease in dps' 'dps' and 'damage' are not interchangeable words/terms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiazabi Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Its not only that scoundrel dps is lower than sentinel, your defensive cd's are still terrible you dont add group buffs like a sentinel so the point still stands why bring a scoundrel over a sentinel for dps / utility / grp buffs. 1.2 pvp video posted i dont really see a point as to why bring a scoundrel over shadow / sentinel then again pre 1.2 i dont really see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuteypie Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Thank you for the very nice comparison of pre/post skills with values. But it seems abit as i feared the whole tree is just swapped a bit around, with mostly nerfs. With the added CD to shoot first they could consider making it useable out of stealth on targets below or at 30% hp so we have a finisher like other classes. This would actually help alot in pve boss fights. Very nice suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomg Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 still doing 5600+ single hit is way too much even for beast or skilled or eliest or w/e u call it and i dont think part of beast is reason for 5.6k+ its gear + spec taht why i am curious why the hell did they nerf scrapper when sentinel doing 2 shoot kills Its ofcourse not like like 2 button pushes and boom 5.6k, that bust has to be prepared. Because the of gui this is not easy, but if you master it or if gui gives a better notification you can do a lot of damage every 10-15 sec. The sentinal has a hugh burst damage potentional for blade storm, if everything alligns then you get a 100% armor ignor, 100% crit chance and some other buffs for some extra 40% damage. But if you compair this to the bust scroundrel have out of stealth we are missing out on 70% armor ignor and a the 100% change to crit. Although we have a 30% armor ignore for 6 sec, its still a lot less potent. I wish they made our dot as good as the jedi dot tree. On the subject of heal/tanks in warzone, samething happened in WAR, a good premade with tank that know what he is doing is very hard to beat. In these cases Guard is the most powerfull tool in the game and a good tank will switch guard to who ever is under focus. To win assisting, target switching, trying to find the weakest link, presurring healers to burn recources ect. I really wonder if we will see scrappers in the top rated warzone teams. Greate thread btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xfightx Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Its ofcourse not like like 2 button pushes and boom 5.6k, that bust has to be prepared. Because the of gui this is not easy, but if you master it or if gui gives a better notification you can do a lot of damage every 10-15 sec. The sentinal has a hugh burst damage potentional for blade storm, if everything alligns then you get a 100% armor ignor, 100% crit chance and some other buffs for some extra 40% damage. But if you compair this to the bust scroundrel have out of stealth we are missing out on 70% armor ignor and a the 100% change to crit. Although we have a 30% armor ignore for 6 sec, its still a lot less potent. I wish they made our dot as good as the jedi dot tree. On the subject of heal/tanks in warzone, samething happened in WAR, a good premade with tank that know what he is doing is very hard to beat. In these cases Guard is the most powerfull tool in the game and a good tank will switch guard to who ever is under focus. To win assisting, target switching, trying to find the weakest link, presurring healers to burn recources ect. I really wonder if we will see scrappers in the top rated warzone teams. Greate thread btw the 100% amror ignore comes from mid tree and the focus is from right tree dont mix 2 things;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theagg Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Its not only that scoundrel dps is lower than sentinel, your defensive cd's are still terrible you dont add group buffs like a sentinel so the point still stands why bring a scoundrel over a sentinel for dps / utility / grp buffs. 1.2 pvp video posted i dont really see a point as to why bring a scoundrel over shadow / sentinel then again pre 1.2 i dont really see it. Yes, I have always thought the Smuggler group buff to be one of the weakest there is. A 5% extra chance to critical from 'Lucky Shots', is just that, a small extra chance, which for the most part won't happen. Compared against other class buffs that increase Endurance, Willpower, or reduce damage taken etc, which are all consistent and actually end up being meaningful all of the time. Edited March 21, 2012 by Theagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning_ Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 So, heres the deal with PvP in the next patch from what I've seen tonight: It doesn't matter how much dps your team has, because healers + tanks work way too well together. Just did a voidstar against a team of 2 tanks 4 healers 2 dps. Our team couldn't kill anything, and they just defended the doors and capped the doors by existing. Huttball worked much the same. Can't kill anyone, just whoever picks up the ball gets the cap. CC the pedestal when the ball spawns, and you win! Novare Coast. 3+ healers on each team. Just sat around shooting flurry of bolts at whoever tried to cap a turret because neither team was ever going to kill anyone. Is that really related to the patch? Because on paper the patch nerfs 2 out of 3 healers... Maybe it's just top players who got to PTS know how to make the unstoppable group in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affics Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Accuracy and alacrity on gear Oo...wth...they are useless at all. Edited March 21, 2012 by Affics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggscoob Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Did you swallow sadness, call a sex line, cry deeply, and demand a refund when you saw these patch notes, knowing that they will most likely go live unchanged since no patch on the PTS has never been changed before going live? hehe like a boss Edited March 21, 2012 by shaggscoob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePedia Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Is that really related to the patch? Because on paper the patch nerfs 2 out of 3 healers... Maybe it's just top players who got to PTS know how to make the unstoppable group in this game. Well, I'm not sure. Its pretty hard to take out a guarded sawbones healer, because they're not reliant on standing and casting, they can just kite you with their instants while the tank and other teams dps slows/ccs/kills your dps. The strength of multiple healers + multiple tanks vs. an equivalent number of dpsers really should be looked at by Bioware, otherwise there's very little reason to not play a tank or healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Could you link your parse for dirty fighting please? Those dummies are going to make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namelless Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 So an unbuffed watchman sentinel can out dps us at our prime on a stationary target? It would be interesting to see how we compare to the other dps classes/specs. Thank you for the thread and information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaknaphein Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) So an unbuffed watchman sentinel can out dps us at our prime on a stationary target? It would be interesting to see how we compare to the other dps classes/specs. Thank you for the thread and information. That is certainly not how it should work. Op/Sc should have higher dps only by a bit than marauders to account for the gap closer. That or give a gap closer for pve purposes. But still even with a pve gap closer, op/sc won't be chosen for operation since every other class performs better, or provides some kind of buff/utility an op/sc doesn't, which is a lot more useful. I guess bioware hasn't considered those factors and are only acting through the pvp balance scope. This shows only how amateurs the devs are. You could argue with that, an op/sc can heal at hard times, but this results in a further dps loss and that's clearly vital when a boss is close to enrage timer. Let alone, when ur chosen as dps they don't expect you to heal. Edited March 22, 2012 by zaknaphein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainInsano Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 So, heres the deal with PvP in the next patch from what I've seen tonight: It doesn't matter how much dps your team has, because healers + tanks work way too well together. Just did a voidstar against a team of 2 tanks 4 healers 2 dps. Our team couldn't kill anything, and they just defended the doors and capped the doors by existing. Huttball worked much the same. Can't kill anyone, just whoever picks up the ball gets the cap. CC the pedestal when the ball spawns, and you win! Novare Coast. 3+ healers on each team. Just sat around shooting flurry of bolts at whoever tried to cap a turret because neither team was ever going to kill anyone. You should post your findings on the PTS/PvP forums. This is something I've seen coming for a while and I think its going to destroy any amount of fun this game ever had in PvP. It seems like at optimal class composition, it is impossible for anyone to die because of how tank+healer synergy works so everyone is going to be standing around dancing in the Warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawke Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have to find the link, but the devs have stated that every class can perform their tasks in healing and dps for every raid or flashpoint on any difficulty. So nothing is truly broken or needs fixing anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have to find the link, but the devs have stated that every class can perform their tasks in healing and dps for every raid or flashpoint on any difficulty. So nothing is truly broken or needs fixing anyways. Yeah lets just make the content so easy that even an Operative in a wheelchair can do it. Then we call that balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaglorArcanist Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have to find the link, but the devs have stated that every class can perform their tasks in healing and dps for every raid or flashpoint on any difficulty. So nothing is truly broken or needs fixing anyways. Yes and santa claus exist and has give me a deathstar. Read back the part a unbuffed sentinel do much more dps on a static target than a buffed scrapper, and go back to say this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othed Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Yes and santa claus exist and has give me a deathstar. Read back the part a unbuffed sentinel do much more dps on a static target than a buffed scrapper, and go back to say this. Why are you comparing your self to a class with 3 dps trees. Gunslingers should match sentinel and we should do close to sages. We have the heal option like sages do. Now how useful it is to a dps spec that we have a few weak heals is the question. But the game designers are going to use the fact we can heal to lower burst and dps. Like most games did or do. Edited March 22, 2012 by Othed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevrent Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Can you tell us how much Sawed off is increasing the damage of Backblast per point and also how much Turn the tables is increasing sucker punch/flying fists per point ? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Why are you comparing your self to a class with 3 dps trees. Gunslingers should match sentinel and we should do close to sages. We have the heal option like sages do. Now how useful it is to a dps spec that we have a few weak heals is the question. But the game designers are going to use the fact we can heal to lower burst and dps. Like most games did or do. Why? You're not brought to the operation to heal, and you won't be helping with the healing. You're brought to DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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