R.I.P Pyro Powertech.

[Ryotknife]

Go talk to a PT that has been playing on the PTS. All these doom and gloom theories about the most EPIC nerf to hit a class in SWTOR..... Powertech.... is just that, theories. All they did was remove the back to back RS's and made getting RS VERY consistant, and heat is not an issue if you know not to spam heat building crap when your proc is on CD.

 

So.... we just got our damage to be consistent.... and remember our consistent damage is EPIC damage. You have no idea how many times the past few months I've thought to myself, "if my damage was just consistent..... I would wreck people just about every single time".

 

uh

 

railshot is not "very consistent" after this patch. it is just slightly better. i thought they were going to increase the procs by 30% or so, you know, something actually significant to justify a 6 second ICD.

 

not to mention we have middle of the road sustained damage. instead of basic attacking every 2 specials or so, we will have to basic attack after every special attack.

 

this change wont destroy pyro, but it doesnt really help either.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Ryotknife

[MiZrYdj]

uh

 

railshot is not "very consistent" after this patch. it is just slightly better. i thought they were going to increase the procs by 30% or so, you know, something actually significant to justify a 6 second ICD.

 

not to mention we have middle of the road sustained damage. instead of basic attacking every 2 specials or so, we will have to basic attack after every special attack.

 

this change wont destroy pyro, but it doesnt really help either.

 

uh

 

So you have tested this on the PTS?

[Ryotknife]

uh

 

So you have tested this on the PTS?

 

uh

 

you dont need to test to understand math. this isnt theorycrafting, its just simple math.

 

before the patch, i would have 73% chance to proc a railshot in 3 attacks, now ill have 88% chance to proc a railshot. that is pretty insignificant compared to what is lost, no more back to back railshots for free damage and venting heat, railshot damage be damned.

[CrunkShizzle]

Check the sticky at the top of the forum, Taugrim's guide to bounty hunter mechanics and PvP.

 

He's good and it's good.

 

im kinda confused

 

unless its because youtube quality is garbage.and the guy actually is recording it from a powertech.it seems like the video he made for the pyrotech was actually from the mirror class

 

but i guess if playstyle is the same.advanced prototype even though it was only lvl 20 on the video seems more what im lookin for then pyrotech,pyrotech seemed more ranged then i thought.and im assuming since the patch notes wernt final,theres still hope of it being buffed to be in line with pyrotech dps wise

Edited March 18, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[Jarfunkz]

2/6/33

 

was the only spec worth using.

 

Still is.

 

Really? you don't want to get 4% elemental damage increase?

[MiZrYdj]

uh

 

you dont need to test to understand math. this isnt theorycrafting, its just simple math.

 

before the patch, i would have 73% chance to proc a railshot in 3 attacks, now ill have 88% chance to proc a railshot. that is pretty insignificant compared to what is lost, no more back to back railshots for free damage and venting heat, railshot damage be damned.

 

So you will proc 8.8 times out of 10 in 3 attacks. Not bad.

 

Here is something to think about, how many RS's does it take for you to kill someone?

 

All champ gear, 2 BM's pieces and mods swapped out for optimal damage output. 3 railshots is all I need to wreck anyone other then tanks and a marauder (unless their 5 sec immune is on cd). If I have not laid waste to them in 3 RS's, they will be so close to death another RS would be pointless.

 

We still should get our first two RS's off in about the same time if not faster now, and now you wont have to pray that the third procs. If you cant lay waste to most classes by the 3rd RS, then you are doing something wrong.

Edited March 18, 2012 by MiZrYdj

[Tourne]

Oh yes, 1.2 will be so good for PT- so good in fact...a Mara will barely even notice what class you are as he demolishes you. Also joy for the Assassin, tired of openers from stealth...fear not...pick your nearest PT and pwn to your hearts content.

 

...All he will have is Rapid Shots or Full heat 99% of the time.

 

 

Nobody is going to need to blow defensive CD's against you anymore...and if you are extremely good and manage to last- they still have all those CD's with 40% health and you are sorely overheating and close to death.

 

As a Sorc, it wasn't the PT that bothered me...or Ops...but Mara's and Assassins. The game in it's current state is actually really good...all AC's have some great potential in certain fields for different aspects of PvP- it's easy to find a class that fits your niche.

 

Funny, how 1.2 is blasting the balance WAY outta the game...it falls into the "Rift" or "Anarchy Online" overhauls that toss everything out of wack. I stuck around far too long in those games- with nothing but bitterness as I "hoped" the devs would one day become enlightened...to no avail. Yah, for the Warhammer team....I hear they have a perfect track record with that.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Tourne

[Hupepak]

ROFL this is definitely a nerf.

 

"significantly increase" from 30% and 45% proc rate to 45% and 60% is not significant!!!

 

There will be situations where you wont get a proc for 10 secs just like now, but however, you wont get it before 6 secs either!

 

Also there isnt going to be anything to tell you when it's 6 seconds. You have to count it in your head. Good luck keeping it counted when you are fighting.

[Hupepak]

and good luck keeping up with marauders, juggernauts and tank assasins this patch when you could barely beat them this patch with luck (talking equal skill and gear). No team will pick a powertech over marauders now.

 

 

The top rated wz team will be 6 sentinels + 2 healers. Why? because their bloodthirst stack and if needed to wipe a team, they just press it at the same time and wipe the other team in 2 globals. Good luck seeing 12-13k smash crits (smash buff from 1.2 + 6 bloodthirst stack).

Edited March 18, 2012 by Hupepak

[Ryotknife]

So you will proc 8.8 times out of 10 in 3 attacks. Not bad.

 

Here is something to think about, how many RS's does it take for you to kill someone?

 

All champ gear, 2 BM's pieces and mods swapped out for optimal damage output. 3 railshots is all I need to wreck anyone other then tanks and a marauder (unless their 5 sec immune is on cd). If I have not laid waste to them in 3 RS's, they will be so close to death another RS would be pointless.

 

We still should get our first two RS's off in about the same time if not faster now, and now you wont have to pray that the third procs. If you cant lay waste to most classes by the 3rd RS, then you are doing something wrong.

 

how many RS does it take to kill someone? assuming...what 16-17k hp?

 

lets see here, with 45% crit chance (set bonus), it would take roughly 5 crits (3.4k crits without relics/etc). so it would take roughly 7 RS to kill someone (3 crits, 4 non crits). that is in full champ gear.

 

 

btw, fun fact! the odds of getting two procs in a row are the same odds as getting TD and railshot to both crit (without CDs), which when everyone talks about pyro damage they assume they always crit.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Varicite]

im kinda confused

 

unless its because youtube quality is garbage.and the guy actually is recording it from a powertech.it seems like the video he made for the pyrotech was actually from the mirror class

 

but i guess if playstyle is the same.advanced prototype even though it was only lvl 20 on the video seems more what im lookin for then pyrotech,pyrotech seemed more ranged then i thought.and im assuming since the patch notes wernt final,theres still hope of it being buffed to be in line with pyrotech dps wise

 

Yeah, he plays a trooper on my server, which is indeed our mirror class. He does try to do a good job of explaining what the BH counterparts for the skills are. There is a longer video of him using the 1/22/18 AP/Pyro hybrid that might be helpful.

 

So you will proc 8.8 times out of 10 in 3 attacks. Not bad.

 

You really don't seem to be taking into account the fact that our main form of heat regen just got cut in half, for the spec that already has the worst possible regen of all 3.

 

You don't think that having to manage heat twice as carefully is going to effect both our ability to continue fighting in extended PvP scenarios AND our ability to burst when necessary?

 

Do you not already overheat when taking down good healers and other sturdy targets and then being forced to engage the rest of the enemy team? You don't often get a choice in the matter; stand and fight or hobble away snared and take it in the back while you try to make it back to your team.

 

Look at your heat management as Pyro. Look at how many times your RS currently procs. If your RS procs more than every 9-10 seconds, you will be losing regen after 1.2.

 

Mine generally procs about every 6 seconds on average. They need to lower that internal cd to at least let us have the chance at having it refreshed at the 6 second mark, instead of 7.5 for the earliest possibility.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Varicite

[Poulay]

Up... any feed back from the PTS? Is it as bad as it seems?

[Sharangir]

Most of the people who dismiss this change seem to be forgetting the 6second cooldown!

 

You can't start TRYING to proc BEFORE the 6second cooldown.

 

 

Right now you can get very lucky with the procs and get one after 1 attack but also unlucky, and might need to wait about 10 seconds before proc. But right now, you need to wait 7.5 seconds MINIMUM, then you need to be lucky with the procs considering it's only a small increase in %. So instead of the free railshot, we'll be forced to using more rapidshots instead.

 

I can already see the grin on our enemy's faces when we're full heat, still squishy as hell but will be shooting 800dmg rapidshots that do WEAPON DAMAGE.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Sharangir

[Poulay]

Most of the people who dismiss this change seem to be forgetting the 6second cooldown!

 

You can't start TRYING to proc BEFORE the 6second cooldown.

 

 

Right now you can get very lucky with the procs and get one after 1 attack but also unlucky, and might need to wait about 10 seconds before proc. But right now, you need to wait 7.5 seconds MINIMUM, then you need to be lucky with the procs considering it's only a small increase in %. So instead of the free railshot, we'll be forced to using more rapidshots instead.

 

I can already see the grin on our enemy's faces when we're full heat, still squishy as hell but will be shooting 800dmg rapidshots that do WEAPON DAMAGE.

 

Bio is sending a message to me with this patch note... please buy Diablo 3

[Kaarsa]

 

it's only a small increase in %.

 

 

Flame strike - it was 30%, it is 45% - 50% increase

 

Rocket punch - it was 45%, it is 60% (or 65? I dont have a pyrotech on PTS), around 50% increase.

 

How it is small? It 50% more chance for proc. Looks like a LOT.

[GenjuroK]

I really enjoyed my Pyro PT, it felt good, alot of fun, not much utility or survivability but we were competitive, now it feels boring and so damn predictable - totally destroying the fun of the class. Really feels like i am quitting if this goes live.

[Poulay]

Flame strike - it was 30%, it is 45% - 50% increase

 

Rocket punch - it was 45%, it is 60% (or 65? I dont have a pyrotech on PTS), around 50% increase.

 

How it is small? It 50% more chance for proc. Looks like a LOT.

 

Yeah It looks like...but it's not.. AT ALL. It's just the biggest nerf in the history of nerf just after the windfury nerf

[kbstealer]

Prior to the patch you could open with Ion Pulse/FlameWhatever to apply burning for Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt. Now you're forced to use the overly expensive Incendiary Missile/Round. If you open with Ion Pulse you'll just get a wasted proc and won't get another for 6 seconds.

 

If this change goes through they need to make it so that it will not proc unless Rail Shot is already on cooldown. The spec will have massive ammo problems in PvP otherwise.

 

you're a little confused, even if you do get the proc before you've used hib/rs it just makes that one free. its not wasted, the ammo/heat savings is just front loaded at that point. they've taken the rng aspect out of the build which makes it much less streaky and more consistant. this is a good thing, and its not going to affect ammo in pvp at all.

[svartalfimposter]

From what I've seen, Pyro is the elephant in the room. While everybody is whining about Tracer Missiles and Sorc Hybrids, the Pyro quietly owns everybody 1v1. Edited March 19, 2012 by svartalfimposter

[Sowwy]

Its not "stabilizing" they are buffing the chances to proc by about 10% meaning you have about the same proc rate as before but this time you have to wait 6 secs after each proc.

 

I think a reduced proc rate is reasonable. We were demolition machines in pvp and deserved a to be toned down.

 

However

 

10% increase, if correct, is not significant as the patch notes read. Its actually ridiculous.

 

I may unsub.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Sowwy

[Varicite]

you're a little confused, even if you do get the proc before you've used hib/rs it just makes that one free. its not wasted, the ammo/heat savings is just front loaded at that point. they've taken the rng aspect out of the build which makes it much less streaky and more consistant. this is a good thing, and its not going to affect ammo in pvp at all.

 

I think you're the one who's a little confused.

 

Read my post at the top of page 12, because I don't feel like typing out why it does effect your ammo usage again.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Varicite

[Dharagada]

It's going to require a period of adjustment.

 

The spec is definitely going to loose a lot of it's potential burst, you will not get any more lucky back to back railshot procs and probably want to weave in more rapid shots.

 

This means against some of the tougher classes that was possible to take down when you get lucky (such as assassins/shadows, marauder/sents and healers) it's going to be a lot harder to take them down.

 

How bad it will be have to wait to be seen, my guess they will probably have to lower the amount of time it takes before another railshot proc becomes available, but still leave some sort of delay in place so getting back to back ones isn't possible.

[Assaultrooper]

I think you're the one who's a little confused.

 

Read my post at the top of page 12, because I don't feel like typing out why it does effect your ammo usage again.

 

Well I will because this is a HUGE nerf that is only getting 13 pages why? when the pillow slap of sages get 100+... This change can not go through.

 

1st. The Cooldown in the patch notes is on the proc. Meaning you wont be able to save the prco for when the 6 secs are up, Then meaning too that you will need to "fish" for the proc once the 6 secs expire.

 

2nd. The Proc Chance buff consist of 60% Rocket Punch, and 45% Fame Burst. Meaning You would need an average of two attacks to proc railshot.

 

3rd. Right now you need 3 attacks on average to proc railshot.

 

The difference then is while Today You get to vent heat every 4.5 secs, After patch you will vent heat every 10 secs on average. Also remember that "vent heat" also equals our biggest source of damage. All in all our resource got nerfed for 100%+, and our biggest damage dealer got a 10 sec cooldown. I estimate from the top of my head that in long (PvE) fights you will see a decrease of up to a 30% dps.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Assaultrooper

[Baconmonster]

Well I will because this is a HUGE nerf that is only getting 13 pages why? when the pillow slap of sages get 100+... This change can not go through.

 

1st. The Cooldown in the patch notes is on the proc. Meaning you wont be able to save the prco for when the 6 secs are up, Then meaning too that you will need to "fish" for the proc once the 6 secs expire.

 

2nd. The Proc Chance buff consist of 60% Rocket Punch, and 45% Fame Burst. Meaning You would need an average of two attacks to proc railshot.

 

3rd. Right now you need 3 attacks on average to proc railshot.

 

The difference then is while Today You get to vent heat every 4.5 secs, After patch you will vent heat every 10 secs on average. Also remember that "vent heat" also equals our biggest source of damage. All in all our resource got nerfed for 100%+, and our biggest damage dealer got a 10 sec cooldown. I estimate from the top of my head that in long (PvE) fights you will see a decrease of up to a 30% dps.

 

Pretty much this. We already have one of the hardest, if not the hardest resource pool to manage because of RNG. Now we have the same problem, but we're forced to not have the same ability for 6 seconds. If they made it so that it procced 100% on FB after 6 seconds we wouldn't be losing as much as we are. The time difference between procs is insane. I don't mind an ICD but a 15% increase is laughably ignorable.

[Kaarsa]

What you completly ignore is the fact that when you dontg et a proc in 3 attacks you start to bury yourself deep into heat deficiency, and it is not easy to go back from there. Pyrotech have currently extremally bad heat managment because of high reliance on RNG and unforgiving heat system.

 

With new system, you can manage your heat. Chance for long "no-procs" periods is much lower now. You act as you always get a proc after 4,5 seconds currently, which would be grossly OPed btw.

 

Heavily RNG dependant heat venting mechanic is not managing, it is counting on luck. Now it will be more predictable, which means more managable. You will have to use skills that lets you vent heat by not using it, or using less of it (like unload or hammer shots). Running around spamming flame strike and praying for proc is as far from MANAGEMENT as possible.