No more involuntary PvP on PvE servers

[Mansford]

I ask to shut down open world PvP on PvE servers.

 

I do not wish to have PvP forced upon me involuntarily outside marked PvP areas (like warzones), when I am not voluntarily flagged for PvP and have not answered a duel request positively.

 

One would think, this is what PvE servers are good for. They are not. It is possible to get killed on a PvE server by another player without having the PvP flag set, without answering a duel request, and without being in a PvP area. If I understand the several default answers of the support in this matter correctly, this is how it is intended to be.

 

I do not comprehend, why it is necessary to write this. I do not want PvP. This is why I do not choose a PvP server.

 

End involuntary PvP on PvE servers.

 

Now.

[TziganeNZ]

I would support this completely - PvP on PvP only servers. No open-world PvP on PvE servers. If you are into PvP, that's fine by me and I have no issue with it, but let PvE be for those who aren't. If a PvEer wants to do some PvP, they can queue for a warzone or hutt-ball game. Or roll on a PvP-specific server.

 

Although I'm not sure how you can be killed by another player if you have not flagged yourself (either through being in a PvP area, duelling, or manually toggling it on) as PvP?

[Mansford]

At level 29 I met a level 50 in an unmarked area on Tattoine. He was yellow to begin with. He followed me around for about twenty minutes putting his oversized speeder on top of what shot at me, obviously hoping that I would accidently attack him. This did not happen. What did happen though was that a mission sent me against Republic troops (of course not in Republic territory - as I said, unmarked) instead of Sand People. Here, either attacking a Republic NPC did the job or, alternatively, next to Republic NPCs, AOE attacks trigger the flag.

 

In the end, I couldn't care less what exactly triggers the flag. I am not asking for something ludicrous. All I want is to play without PvP. I don't even understand why I have to ask for this on a PvE server.

 

As for the live and let live policy towards PvPers, if they would let live, there wouldn't be a problem to begin with. And I hope, the problem is obvious, because it is not dying once. Once a PvPer has triggered your flag, your death does NOT eliminate the flag. All the funny bone has to do is wait and see, whether you get a drone on the spot or warp back to the medical center. A level 50 can walk right into the medical center. I know, because he did. That, my friend, is called a death roll, because now you can't run and you can't hide and he can kill you, until you are tired of this and quit the game. And yes, when I came back an hour later, he was still there.

 

Great design idea. No, really.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Mansford

[Esproc]

There are some real cheap and cowardly people that are currently using a "flaw" (Exploiting rally) that if they are PvP flagged and if you use an AoE, Bang, they jump you because they got close enough to get "hit" and flagged you.

 

I had a group of 4 do this in an area where I was questing and had just gone up against a mob of 2 "Strong" and 2 regular phzzt(whatever those Hoth Ice Men are), and being a Darkness Assassin used Whither and got 8 killing me fast. I went around (after Pvp was "un" flagged) and saw some other Imperial players dead too.

 

If it happens again, do all that you can to get name, level, class, time, place, et. al. and report them. What they are doing is against the TOS.

[Elkirus]

I whould like this as much as i want BW to stop forcing people that only want to PvP to PvE in order to get the best stuff...

 

Singed!

[dkangl]

I would support this completely - PvP on PvP only servers. No open-world PvP on PvE servers. If you are into PvP, that's fine by me and I have no issue with it, but let PvE be for those who aren't. If a PvEer wants to do some PvP, they can queue for a warzone or hutt-ball game. Or roll on a PvP-specific server.

 

Although I'm not sure how you can be killed by another player if you have not flagged yourself (either through being in a PvP area, duelling, or manually toggling it on) as PvP?

 

No noone is forcing you to go to Ilum that is YOUR choice. Some of us dont like the mentality of pvp servers where max levels get bored and farm low level players etc. Ilum is the one area I can go to have some open world pvp fun YOU DONT LIKE IT DO NOT GO it is THAT SIMPLE..

 

Dont ruin it for the rest of us because you don't like pvp.

 

The other stuff is simply an exploit in the system (which will happen when you are allowed to flag yourself on a PVP server) and THAT should never be removed as well.

Edited March 18, 2012 by dkangl

[jmdatcs]

I am sympathetic and agree with your view in principal, but you are asking too much.

 

First, the areas that will get you flagged are never places you have to go and when you go into them there is a red warning countdown to allow you to reverse course.

 

The aoe thing is exploiting game mechanics and while I agree it's annoying, ending all open world PvP is an overreaction.

 

If you're being followed by someone you suspect of trying to get you flagged, go make some food, take a leak, have a smoke, waste as much of their time as possible and laugh about it. Then report them for greifing.

 

Voluntary open world PvP on a PvE server can be fun at times, and while I agree that being tricked into it sucks, getting rid of the whole thing to avoid the rare exploit is not, in my opinion, a good trade-off.

[venomlash]

They're making it so that the AoE issue will no longer happen. No need to get your jimmies too rustled.

[sjmc]

There are some real cheap and cowardly people that are currently using a "flaw" (Exploiting rally) that if they are PvP flagged and if you use an AoE, Bang, they jump you because they got close enough to get "hit" and flagged you.

Please don't make the change. Otherwise those people will come to the PvP servers and bother us. We don't want griefers on PvP servers. That's what they made PvE servers for.

Edited March 18, 2012 by sjmc

[CeruleanNite]

Please don't make the change. Otherwise those people will come to the PvP servers and bother us. We don't want griefers on PvP servers. That's what they made PvE servers for.

 

You are so funny.... NOT

 

I understand where you are coming from OP and I agree.

 

/signed

[Mansford]

Allow me to use jmdatcs's post as an orientation to address the issue. No offense meant.

 

 

I am sympathetic and agree with your view in principal, but you are asking too much.

 

 

No, I don't. All I am asking for is to remove any code that changes my PvP flag other than me doing it manually. Since we are talking about the principal difference between a PvP and a PvE server, the code that needs to be changed should not only be extremely easy to find, but also extremely painless to change. After all, this is what a flag is good for.

 

 

First, the areas that will get you flagged are never places you have to go and when you go into them there is a red warning countdown to allow you to reverse course.

 

 

And this is the heart of the problem. I am not talking about a marked area and I am talking about a place I have to go to. TOR is a linear game, in which one quest's success triggers a new quest. When I cannot complete a quest, which is one of my standard quests to do the planet (so I am not talking about heroic or area quests), then I cannot proceed. The avatar then has to be put into a refrigerator, until the PvPer finds it appropriate to stop killing me over and over again.

 

 

The aoe thing is exploiting game mechanics and while I agree it's annoying, ending all open world PvP is an overreaction.

 

 

No, it isn't. "Open world PvP" by definition is the characteristic of the PvP server. The characteristic of a PvE server is "No open world PvP". So I am asking to change something that should have never ever been happening to begin with.

 

 

If you're being followed by someone you suspect of trying to get you flagged, go make some food, take a leak, have a smoke, waste as much of their time as possible and laugh about it.

 

 

I can't. After being forced to sit and watch my PvP flag change back in a cantina of my choice, I had the same thought. Unfortunately, the PvPer was there for hours, putting his speeder (which is faster than mine) on top of me or my targets every time I came to look, if he was gone.

 

Again, the problem is that since death does not switch back the flag and since a level 50 can and does go into a medical center (which is the area respawn point), you die, and the guy comes rushing over and kills you instantly again. Once he is in the medical center. you are dead the second you respawn. So all you can do (other than dying again and again and again) is stopping to play for realtime hours to come.

 

Is it really too much to ask not to be subjected to this?

 

 

Then report them for greifing.

 

 

Ok, let's pretend just for the sake of the argument that reporting someone would change anything. When exactly does that change occur? Does reporting end the fact that I am done playing for today with this avatar, because some PvPer decides so?

 

All I am asking for is that I would not be subject to involuntary PvP on a PvE server.

 

 

Voluntary open world PvP on a PvE server can be fun at times, and while I agree that being tricked into it sucks, getting rid of the whole thing to avoid the rare exploit is not, in my opinion, a good trade-off.

 

 

No, it isn't. And I am not saying this, because I don't like PvP in any form. I am saying this, because the "trade-off" is both premeditated and utterly unnecessary.

 

Doing the change I ask for does not affect any right of any PvEer whatsoever in the game. What it does affect is the ability of a PvPer to force me to stop playing TOR - and, call me crazy, but somehow I like that idea.

 

 

They're making it so that the AoE issue will no longer happen. No need to get your jimmies too rustled.

 

I disagree. Strongly, if I have to. When an issue is bad enough that I have to physically take my hands off the keyboard for no other reason than another player making me do so, I think, it's time to get my jimmies rustled.

 

Besides, the problem just started. I just met a single, terminally bored PvPer, who exploited a loophole, which should have never existed to begin with. When is it worth changing? Since TOR is linear, how many PvPers does it take to shut down an entire server by simply blockading one key area 24/7, through which everybody has to pass? How about right outside the starport on Balmorra respectively on Tarsus? I am not asking for the solution to some annoying little problem. This has the potential to bring down the game.

 

Is it really necessary to let it go that far?

[ArtsyAssassin]

I was under the impression that this was already how it worked. . . . You join a PvE server and the only way you got to PvP was in WZs and MAYBE Ilum. . . . I was only part of a PvE server till the second worlds before I moved to a PvP server to play with my BF, so that would be why I never figured this out. . . .

 

So you mean to tell me this is actually NOT the case and you can still be jumped on a PvE server?

 

|: My bf was under the same impression as my impression stemmed from what he told me. . . . I can't believe this actually ISN'T the case. Glad I didn't get too far on the PvE server to be utterly unprepared for some jerk on Tatooine that jumps me.

 

This needs to be rectified immediately.

 

/signed

Edited March 20, 2012 by ArtsyAssassin

[MaximusRex]

OP, BioWare has already stated they want to fix it so that players cannot be tricked into PvP on PvE servers without intentionally flagging, and I think they have already made some changes to help with that goal.

 

I would highly encourage you file a bug report for the incident you described earlier, and should something happen again in the future file a bug report and a harassment report against the player.

[Rotton]

OP, BioWare has already stated they want to fix it so that players cannot be tricked into PvP on PvE servers without intentionally flagging, and I think they have already made some changes to help with that goal.

 

I would highly encourage you file a bug report for the incident you described earlier, and should something happen again in the future file a bug report and a harassment report against the player.

 

This

OP I DO NOT STAND AGAINST YOU on not wanting to get ganked, however the actions you describe is you being greived by another player and this player should be reported ASAP

 

However, I play on a PVE server because PvPers as pros are a if its red its dead kind of player...not the I am waiting to eat you alive because you have to come in here, that is a stero type.

 

I dont want to try crossing zones with that bunch because its their bread and butter type play, and I want to more PvE. However I do PvP as many on my server do, and open zones need fixed , not eliminated from PvE servers, sorry , that is limiting what I pay for, and IMO, you can control if you go PvP or not, you get a warning, at least I always have

[Roalmo]

This

..., you can control if you go PvP or not, you get a warning, at least I always have

 

YOU ARE wrong, THE AOE TRIGGER IS INSTANT.

[Roccobb]

This

OP I DO NOT STAND AGAINST YOU on not wanting to get ganked, however the actions you describe is you being greived by another player and this player should be reported ASAP

 

However, I play on a PVE server because PvPers as pros are a if its red its dead kind of player...not the I am waiting to eat you alive because you have to come in here, that is a stero type.

 

I dont want to try crossing zones with that bunch because its their bread and butter type play, and I want to more PvE. However I do PvP as many on my server do, and open zones need fixed , not eliminated from PvE servers, sorry , that is limiting what I pay for, and IMO, you can control if you go PvP or not, you get a warning, at least I always have

 

As I posted in a similar thread, why not on a pve server make me manually flag myself. To keep from exploiting this, keep healers not flagged from being able to heal those who are flagged. Note, I do not include Ilum on this. You enter a pvp planet, expect pvp.

[Nitewolfe]

Didnt they already fix it so aoe attacks will not hit flagged other faction players? I swear i seen it in the patch notes.

 

So is this not working right? Because iused to have this issue until the patch and have not since had the problem While i know others have triedto get me flagged and it doesnt flag me when they run through my aoe's now (they try it on ilum every day)

 

here are the notes on it

 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/1.1.4/2222012

 

1.1.4 Patch Notes

 

General

 

Using abilities with indirect targeting (such as area of effect abilities) will no longer cause players to be flagged for PvP if a PvP-flagged player from the opposing faction is within the ability's range, and the ability will have no effect on the PvP-flagged player.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Nitewolfe

[ReddNekk]

Deleted by Reddnekk. Edited March 20, 2012 by ReddNekk

[sjmc]

Again, the problem is that since death does not switch back the flag and since a level 50 can and does go into a medical center (which is the area respawn point), you die, and the guy comes rushing over and kills you instantly again. Once he is in the medical center. you are dead the second you respawn. So all you can do (other than dying again and again and again) is stopping to play for realtime hours to come.

I would like to see a change on all servers where, if you die at a medical centre, you would have the option to respawn at the next closest medical centre. This would alleviate the problem of people camping medical centres.

[Mansford]

OP, BioWare has already stated they want to fix it so that players cannot be tricked into PvP on PvE servers without intentionally flagging, and I think they have already made some changes to help with that goal.

 

I would highly encourage you file a bug report for the incident you described earlier, and should something happen again in the future file a bug report and a harassment report against the player.

 

 

I filed three bug reports in the matter. Each was answered with a pre-typed form answer, for instance, explaining what PvE is. Two of the answers sent me here to the suggestion box. So, here I am, suggesting that involuntary PvP should not be possible on a PvE server.

 

 

Didnt they already fix it so aoe attacks will not hit flagged other faction players? I swear i seen it in the patch notes.

 

So is this not working right? Because iused to have this issue until the patch and have not since had the problem While i know others have triedto get me flagged and it doesnt flag me when they run through my aoe's now (they try it on ilum every day)

 

here are the notes on it

 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/1.1.4/2222012

 

1.1.4 Patch Notes

 

General

 

Using abilities with indirect targeting (such as area of effect abilities) will no longer cause players to be flagged for PvP if a PvP-flagged player from the opposing faction is within the ability's range, and the ability will have no effect on the PvP-flagged player.

 

 

I don't know what they are talking about. I wouldn't be here, if there wouldn't be a loophole. My guess (but it is not more than a guess though) is that instead of fixing the problem on the receiving end by making it impossible to change the flag involuntarily, they fixed one bug on the aggressive side, blocking some player's action, and never touched the flag. As a consequence, it is anybody's guess how long it takes to find all the loopholes. In the meantime, I sit in the suggestion box rather than on Tattoine. Great.

 

 

I would like to see a change on all servers where, if you die at a medical centre, you would have the option to respawn at the next closest medical centre. This would alleviate the problem of people camping medical centres.

 

 

That is something, which makes sense on a PvP server. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. For a PvE server it would be wasted time both for the ones doing the patching and for me, the patched. I don't want to change the mode of involuntary PvP on PvE servers, I want it gone. The only way to ensure this is by not changing the flag involuntarily. And again, to make sure the objective of this thread doesn't get lost, I am talking about open world areas on a PvE server, which are unmarked (so no warzones, no Ilum, etc.).

 

On that thought, having a player of the other faction yellow to begin with is an open invitation for harrassment, because a bored level 50 only has to put his speeder above everything that shoots at you. It's only a matter of time, when the going gets rough enough to accidently right-click the PvPer. What I don't understand is, why things like this are even an issue. Didn't I make a clear and conscious decision against PvP, when I chose a PvE server?

[sjmc]

My guess (but it is not more than a guess though) is that instead of fixing the problem on the receiving end by making it impossible to change the flag involuntarily, they fixed one bug on the aggressive side, blocking some player's action, and never touched the flag.

I don't think it is quite that simple. To have your flag change, you must have done something (such as heal someone or cast an AOE).

 

There are things that you could do that should perhaps involuntarily flag you for PVP, such as healing a player engaged in PVP. Otherwise someone could fight PVP with a legion of non-PVP healers backing him up. This means that there must be an involuntary flag mechanism.

 

Suppose you are guarding a player that turns his flag on? Should that cancel the guard? Perhaps it should, but that code would need to be checked. If you are grouped with someone that is flagged, what happens to your flag? Do they still get your buffs?

 

Question: Can you attack someone that is PVP-flagged if you are not PVP-flagged?

[Crazylor]

Don't remove the free world pvp! Just fix this issue! I would still like the option to flag myself and run around and fight people also interested in the same thing.

[Dhishun]

umm its called DONT GO INTO OPEN WORLD PVP AREAS.. how ignorant are you idiots

[Mansford]

umm its called DONT GO INTO OPEN WORLD PVP AREAS.. how ignorant are you idiots

 

 

Please, before trolling, read the thread, if nothing else the original post. We are talking about UNMARKED open world areas, that means areas NOT specifically marked for PvP.

 

 

Don't remove the free world pvp! Just fix this issue! I would still like the option to flag myself and run around and fight people also interested in the same thing.

 

 

I am not asking to interfere with anybody's option to flag themselves. I am asking to remove the mechanics for INVOLUNTARILY being flagged for PvP on PvE servers outside specifically marked PvP areas.

 

 

I don't think it is quite that simple. To have your flag change, you must have done something (such as heal someone or cast an AOE).

 

There are things that you could do that should perhaps involuntarily flag you for PVP, such as healing a player engaged in PVP. Otherwise someone could fight PVP with a legion of non-PVP healers backing him up. This means that there must be an involuntary flag mechanism.

 

Suppose you are guarding a player that turns his flag on? Should that cancel the guard? Perhaps it should, but that code would need to be checked. If you are grouped with someone that is flagged, what happens to your flag? Do they still get your buffs?

 

Question: Can you attack someone that is PVP-flagged if you are not PVP-flagged?

 

 

I beg to differ, it is quite that simple. If I am guarding or healing a player engaging in PvP, I have made a voluntary and conscious decision to participate in PvP myself. This is not, what this thread is about. We are talking about fighting environment on a PvE server, in the course of which some actions (possibly, but not exclusively, AoE effects) trigger an involuntary PvP flag.

[HeavensAgent]

At level 29 I met a level 50 in an unmarked area on Tattoine. He was yellow to begin with. He followed me around for about twenty minutes putting his oversized speeder on top of what shot at me, obviously hoping that I would accidently attack him. This did not happen. What did happen though was that a mission sent me against Republic troops (of course not in Republic territory - as I said, unmarked) instead of Sand People. Here, either attacking a Republic NPC did the job or, alternatively, next to Republic NPCs, AOE attacks trigger the flag.

Open-world PvP should not be removed from PvE server. The ability to engage in consensual open-world PvP is one of the advantages of rolling on a PvE server.

 

What you describe is a clear instance of harassment. The entire server should not be altered to account for the already-prohibited actions of certain players. Did you make a point to report the player in question?