Drewser Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) This. I don't "hate" BW and SWTOR, I wish them the best, although I regret a bit the possibilities they had and didn't benefit from. Players yearned for another new MMO, that might give them the experience like WoW or EQ did to the people who logged into a MMO game world the first time. Let's see if SWTOR is able to fullfil that at least to a decent amount. One hint: If a MMO developer does not announce subscriber numbers anymore you are on a good way to F2p. This happened in LotRO :-) One of EA's execs, I forgot which one, may have been their CEO, talked about sub numbers a little over 2 weeks ago. Do you expect daily updates? Edited March 22, 2012 by Drewser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MefuneAkira Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Most MMOs these days are swords and magic and even though its been done to death, there it is. SWTOR is one of the only sci fi MMOs out there, but really I don't even call TOR a MMO due to it missing the first two M's. lol As much as kids/teens/20's prefer the simplistic linear MMO's these days, I look forward to a sandbox sci fi MMO. Until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Lol and probably the highest drop off rate in history as well. Lol People are missing the burn off rate . and are underestimating the impact it has on the long term population. by december 31 st over 300 k peole spit this game out like they just ate poo. that 300k will probably never retry SWTOR. Right now if they have 1.7 million subs (which i seriously doubt i think its about half that by this point )then they have way way to many servers . TOR will have a huge bleed. AOC, Aion and War are the top 3 for player burn off in a 6 month period over 50 % loss war was far more then that it lost subs worse then AOC. My guess tor will have 800 k subs by 6 month mark very profitable for them but one of the worst retentions of any release MMO to date. best retention for a sub based mmo recently is Rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenceriker Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Patch 1.2 as it currently stands will have enough people willing to try out Tera and TSW once they see how unrealistic and dumb many of the changes are. Bioware is proving that they have no idea what they should be doing with this patch besides adding Legacy fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironcleaver Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 As much as kids/teens/20's prefer the simplistic linear MMO's these days, I look forward to a sandbox sci fi MMO. Yup, Agreed. In general, most veteran mmo players, those with ten years or more in the genre, like one style of play. While this next generation, with their obsession with instant gratification, like another. The company that can actually balance both playstyles in a single game, that company will win. How hollow mmos have become. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midichlorien Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 One of EA's execs, I forgot which one, may have been their CEO, talked about sub numbers a little over 2 weeks ago. Do you expect daily updates? I made a general assumption, no actual relevance to SWTOR. Just a hint if they may disappear in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendakon Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Tried Tera. Was a pretty, but dull, grindfest. I think he covered that in his OP here... "delivering everything we expect in a modern day MMO on release" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 People are missing the burn off rate . and are underestimating the impact it has on the long term population. by december 31 st over 300 k peole spit this game out like they just ate poo. that 300k will probably never retry SWTOR. Right now if they have 1.7 million subs (which i seriously doubt i think its about half that by this point )then they have way way to many servers . TOR will have a huge bleed. AOC, Aion and War are the top 3 for player burn off in a 6 month period over 50 % loss war was far more then that it lost subs worse then AOC. My guess tor will have 800 k subs by 6 month mark very profitable for them but one of the worst retentions of any release MMO to date. best retention for a sub based mmo recently is Rift. You have been wrong every time you have posted 'predictions' like this. They never lost 300k by Dec 31st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You have been wrong every time you have posted 'predictions' like this. They never lost 300k by Dec 31st. 2 million in sales but 1.7 active subs by december 31st. you do the math drewser are you drew karpashian? lol . TOR is not a bad game its just not worht the price of a sub its a big single player game with online features, believe me Bro i wanted this game to be a smash, ive been here since 2008 flying the TOR flag and hopting it would be the big competitor. come may we will see the retention rate on the next investor report they are legaly obliged to be absloutely accurate. it will not be 1.7 million by then, will it be more then the 800k i am guessing there is a very good chance sure. But from what ive seen this devolpmnet team lacks alot of expierence with MMO's and are missing the mark severly in design for long term retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) 2 million in sales but 1.7 active subs by december 31st. you do the math drewser are you drew karpashian? lol . TOR is not a bad game its just not worht the price of a sub its a big single player game with online features, believe me Bro i wanted this game to be a smash, ive been here since 2008 flying the TOR flag and hopting it would be the big competitor. come may we will see the retention rate on the next investor report they are legaly obliged to be absloutely accurate. it will not be 1.7 million by then, will it be more then the 800k i am guessing there is a very good chance sure. But from what ive seen this devolpmnet team lacks alot of expierence with MMO's and are missing the mark severly in design for long term retention. 1.7 subs was by early Feb, not 12/31/11. You have been shown the proof of that many times but simply refuse to accept it. Then a little over two weeks ago they said they are still at 1.7m without counting the Oceanic release so I laugh at your 800k prediction. Edited March 22, 2012 by Drewser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintan Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 1.7 subs was by early Feb, not 12/31/11. You have been shown the proof of that many times but simply refuse to accept it. Then a little over two weeks ago they said they are still at 1.7m without counting the Oceanic release so I laugh at your 800k prediction. Cool story, Spin around like a top all you want. Every one in my server is saying the same thing so all your blah blah blah is pointless, you can't stop the truth. The sings are here folks, I've seen this a dozen times. You can't sell a Camaro for the price of a Mercedes-Benz, sure the camaro is sporty and looks cool but it's just not worth the amount of car you get from a benz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Cool story, Spin around like a top all you want. Every one in my server is saying the same thing so all your blah blah blah is pointless, you can't stop the truth. The sings are here folks, I've seen this a dozen times. You can't sell a Camaro for the price of a Mercedes-Benz, sure the camaro is sporty and looks cool but it's just not worth the amount of car you get from a benz. Spin, what spin? I posted the facts as we know them right now. Do have some proof that subs are under 1m already like Wifeaggro stated? Edited March 22, 2012 by Drewser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amantheil Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Cool story, Spin around like a top all you want. Every one in my server is saying the same thing so all your blah blah blah is pointless, you can't stop the truth. Oh, well people on your server are saying it. That's some pretty definitive proof you got there. Everyone I know says the world will explode in 2013 based on the Mayan calendar. Since people I know are saying it, IT MUST BE TRUE. Edited March 22, 2012 by amantheil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintan Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Oh, well people on your server are saying it. That's some pretty definitive proof you got there. Everyone I know says the world will explode in 2013 based on the Mayan calendar. Since people I know are saying it, IT MUST BE TRUE. Say what you will I have experience in these matters plus characters on 4 different servers. So I guess all these people on the forums complaining are just liars right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Most MMOs these days are swords and magic and even though its been done to death, there it is. SWTOR is one of the only sci fi MMOs out there, but really I don't even call TOR a MMO due to it missing the first two M's. lol As much as kids/teens/20's prefer the simplistic linear MMO's these days, I look forward to a sandbox sci fi MMO. Until then. You and I both, brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuschell Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Imo Bioware, shouldn't of made swtor, they shouldn't of teamed up with EA and took some time to develop an awesome Mass Effect mmo, just my opinion, all in all I love this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amantheil Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Say what you will I have experience in these matters plus characters on 4 different servers. So I guess all these people on the forums complaining are just liars right? Well, number of people complaining on the forums isn't proof of anything, since only a fraction of players post on the forums. Regardless, there are obviously some servers that are horribly under-populated, and that needs to be rectified. I fully support free transfers and possibly even server merges. And there are issues with the game itself that need to be fixed. But that's not what I'm responding to. Someone quoted a statement from EA/Bioware saying they have 1.7 million subscribers. And your response was basically "that's not true, because people on my server say differently", which of course is proof of absolutely nothing. EA may be able to spin those numbers, but they can't actually lie about them without opening them up to legal issues. So I'm willing to accept that it is more or less an accurate number. So do you have any proof that subscription numbers are tanking, other than anecdotal evidence? Edited March 22, 2012 by amantheil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Here is where they've missed the boat in my opinion; You have this long period of time when we know that the Sith Empire and Republic were constantly fighting for territory, gaining and losing ground, both with great victories and losses. This could be a player-driven, sandbox MMO in much of the galaxy. You could actually conquer or liberate planets. Player activity could determine winners and losers. The galaxy could consist of more than just a few destination planets, you could have tens of dozens of worlds that are open for a guild or a faction to try and take control of. And you could then be beaten off your planet by the opposing faction. This would involve greatly expanding the space experience to include fighters and capital ships. Incorporating a way for troops to fly to the planet on ships instead of using cookie cutter spaceports, and a way to build bases and fortifications. There is just a ton of things that could be done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Say what you will I have experience in these matters plus characters on 4 different servers. So I guess all these people on the forums complaining are just liars right? What percentage of the player base do you think posts here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiv Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Here is where they've missed the boat in my opinion; You have this long period of time when we know that the Sith Empire and Republic were constantly fighting for territory, gaining and losing ground, both with great victories and losses. This could be a player-driven, sandbox MMO in much of the galaxy. You could actually conquer or liberate planets. Player activity could determine winners and losers. The galaxy could consist of more than just a few destination planets, you could have tens of dozens of worlds that are open for a guild or a faction to try and take control of. And you could then be beaten off your planet by the opposing faction. This would involve greatly expanding the space experience to include fighters and capital ships. Incorporating a way for troops to fly to the planet on ships instead of using cookie cutter spaceports, and a way to build bases and fortifications. There is just a ton of things that could be done here. THIS ^ This game has SO MUCH potential, and it seems like most are over looking this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setablaze Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 THIS ^ This game has SO MUCH potential, and it seems like most are over looking this. Key word being "HAS". Does not mean it will ever live up to it's potential. As it stands right now SWTOR is a long way off what it needs to be. It has brought almost nothing new to the genre and I'm not seeing any promises that it ever will. D3, Tera and GW2 will steal a lot of players. So will Summer SWTOR can survive given their huge player base now but ... they need to do something epic to stay competitive long-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) IDK. You cant trust opinion on the forums but i can speak for RL. Below is the scenerio When SWTOR came out in Dec, a few people i know from work began playing with me (they are what i would call gamers, I have only really played SWG). Fast forward a couple months.....I am the only person out of 6 that is still playing this game. Will it match up IDK, I only know that I play alone at this point. Edited March 22, 2012 by kirorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farho Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Lets be realistic guys, TERA won't steal a significant number of subs from SWTOR. It's just another one of those cheap games. As for GW2, it may steal upto 100k players. It's not a great brand that millions of people would risk spending time or money. 2m is an optimistic guess for total GW2 players. MoP would probably steal over 300k subs as many ex-WoWers plan to try it out. Even if they don't like it, they probably won't come back to SWTOR. I for one will try MoP and I know I wouldn't bother coming back to the current state of the game. But if 1.2 or 1.3 brings some sweet changes, I won't even cancel my sub here. But the equation is all upto how many new players SWTOR can draw. You know what would draw more players? More content? New WZs or OPs don't mean anything who haven't played SWTOR yet. Well, rumors, sweet screenshots, stuff worth media coverage, stuff that haven't been tried in any other MMO, these bring new players. Legacy is a good step. But this game needs even bigger, shinier, more addictive things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makagoto Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) looking over to the open pvp wasteland that has yet to be changed, i am totally anxious of just pre ordering gw2. Those TOR classes don't really work in pvp. They are going to kill all the hybrid classes right now. Changes are quite drastic and limit my playstyle. Somehow the legacy system cannot pull it for me. I didn't like the trait system to begin with. I don't really see the point in playing TOR anymore and i have subbed for 6 months. Guess i simply don't stand the old mmo formula and need something new. Edited March 22, 2012 by Makagoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxen Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Of all the MMOs that's come out, I felt that there were only 3 that threatened WoW: Warhammer, SWTOR, and GW2. Warhammer fell flat on its face almost immediately. SWTOR thought it could get away with releasing a game still in Beta. We'll see how GW2 goes. Third times a charm, right? If it flops, I'll just go back to WoW and stomach the pandas until Project Titan gets released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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