unicornfive Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Vanguard/vanguard/commando healer ended up winning the tournament. The powertech/vanguard nerf coming in a bit should help balance things out a lot, but sage's still have the problem of dying instantly vs 2+ coordinated melee DPS. Yeah u are right.....the sorc should turn arround and kill the 2+ melee instead....UNACCEPTABLE! How about NOT comparing 1 sorc with 2 melee, but 2 sorc with 2 melee?? While 1 sorc is chased arround by 2 melee, the other sorc can wtfpwn 1 of them within 5 sec....and with chain lighting OPdpsprocs...both of them within 10 sec! Ranged in this game clearly need buff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZanos Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yeah u are right.....the sorc should turn arround and kill the 2+ melee instead....UNACCEPTABLE! How about NOT comparing 1 sorc with 2 melee, but 2 sorc with 2 melee?? While 1 sorc is chased arround by 2 melee, the other sorc can wtfpwn 1 of them within 5 sec....and with chain lighting OPdpsprocs...both of them within 10 sec! Ranged in this game clearly need buff... The problem is that the Sorc, despite guards and taunts, dies almost instantaneously. This does not happen to marauders and other melee classes in general because they have better defensive cooldowns, and Sorc/Sage doesn't have as much burst damage. Other healing classes also have more armor and defensive cooldowns, allowing them to survive while sorcerers just melt. No, Sorcs should not LOLTURNAROUNDANDKILLTWOMELEESATONCE, but these were balanced 4v4 teams, they should not have died instantly. You should probably watch the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonnolol Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Vanguard/vanguard/commando healer ended up winning the tournament. The powertech/vanguard nerf coming in a bit should help balance things out a lot, but sage's still have the problem of dying instantly vs 2+ coordinated melee DPS. All healers have this problem at the moment. Guard is absolutely essential and even then it wont save you for long vs 2 competent dps. The game simply has too many interrupts and stuns and expertise does not provide enough survivability. Edited March 13, 2012 by Nonnolol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicornfive Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The problem is that the Sorc, despite guards and taunts, dies almost instantaneously. This does not happen to marauders and other melee classes in general because they have better defensive cooldowns, and Sorc/Sage doesn't have as much burst damage. Other healing classes also have more armor and defensive cooldowns, allowing them to survive while sorcerers just melt. No, Sorcs should not LOLTURNAROUNDANDKILLTWOMELEESATONCE, but these were balanced 4v4 teams, they should not have died instantly. You should probably watch the video. I am pretty much sure that Operatives and juggernauts die pretty much instantaneusly when they got 2 sorcs nuking them at same time... and the only cd that helps assassins is the force immunity spell.. Marauders are the only sick defensive class in this game... So do not talk about melee the same u talk about marauders... Marauders are on a different lvl... And about the video...some 4v4 teams, that i doubt they have 4v4 experience vs all available combos...and without knowing the actual skill of each player...make u judge that sorc sucks and need buff in survivability.... Well, then...add 4 sorcs in huttball..tell them to focus 1 target at a time...and...on top of that, give them defensive CDs too that they lack...(according to you) Then sit back and watch the game get ruined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I am pretty much sure that Operatives and juggernauts die pretty much instantaneusly when they got 2 sorcs nuking them at same time... and the only cd that helps assassins is the force immunity spell.. Marauders are the only sick defensive class in this game... So do not talk about melee the same u talk about marauders... Marauders are on a different lvl... And about the video...some 4v4 teams, that i doubt they have 4v4 experience vs all available combos...and without knowing the actual skill of each player...make u judge that sorc sucks and need buff in survivability.... Well, then...add 4 sorcs in huttball..tell them to focus 1 target at a time...and...on top of that, give them defensive CDs too that they lack...(according to you) Then sit back and watch the game get ruined... ^^ That and I am sure in the 3v3 or 4v4 place an all Sorc team who know what they are doing and I am pretty sure you will have a different story. I dont see how having 1 sorc on a team anything remotely close to being a balanced team. Any opposing team with half a brain cell will always focus that 1 sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredzz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The only thing thats op about sorcs is the insane utility for scoring in huttball. Knocking people off ledges/force speed and pulling people makes scoring way too easy for them. In a 4v4 zerg obviously the sorc isnt going to be that strong unless a healer and being guarded but for objectives they are the best ranged by far for objectives, merc's/op healers/snipers don't hold a candle to you in huttball. When pvp is objective based and not zerg based you can't moan about imbalances of classes with dps because they swap utility for their burst, if you want dmg fine but take away you're utility, if you want more survivability fine then take away you're dmg etc etc. Huttball will always be a sorc stacking warzone with 1juggernaut tank to carry the ball. Think i'm wrong tell me where im wrong? because huttball has nothing to do with who can kill so an so in a zerg situation its about moving from A to B the fastest and by god you do that the best with you're abilities by far the best support class in the game Classes i think are decent in huttball Sorcerers Juggernaut Tanks/hybrid Assassin Tanks/hybrid Powertech Tanks/hybrid(not pyro since one knocking off the ledge and their useless like operative dps) Then the rest in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 This is pretty much in-line with my experiences that powertech/marauder comprise the top tier for DPS classes. Great survivability, utility, solo defending, and damage. Sorcs are still above average in pug warzones where they can sit behind their teammates and spam lightning/heals. Kinda like how people still complain about tracer missile spam but I find DPS mercs to be one of the weakest specs. Any coordinated team will focus them and shut them out. Lastly, level 10-49 warzones are completely different than fully geared level 50 warzones. I agree that sorcs feel overpowered in the lower bracket, especially since they get a lot of their useful abilities early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikingInsanity Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yeah u are right.....the sorc should turn arround and kill the 2+ melee instead....UNACCEPTABLE! How about NOT comparing 1 sorc with 2 melee, but 2 sorc with 2 melee?? While 1 sorc is chased arround by 2 melee, the other sorc can wtfpwn 1 of them within 5 sec....and with chain lighting OPdpsprocs...both of them within 10 sec! Ranged in this game clearly need buff... In the tournament sorc's were dying inside the opener(from stealth) with guard, taunts, and peels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeLopez Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yeah, it's not even possible to blame the Sage / Sorcerer because they were all dying before they could act. Other healers did not have the same problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Are they bringing arena competitions in 1.2?? I think I missed that part. I thought the pvp ranking was going to still be based on Objective WZs. Someone clarify pls, cause arenas are a complete waste imo. They prove absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typheran Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 In the tournament sorc's were dying inside the opener(from stealth) with guard, taunts, and peels. It's going to be ranked warzones... not team deathmatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyyri Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Many peoples an mentioning "competive play" but how is that even possible in SWTOR where most of key gameplay elements are broken as hell? tab is barely working ability delay is no go, most players are getting lag and even zoom is pretty messed up. Atm you really cant even have truly competive play in pvp, bacuse "RNG" will propably screw you at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredzz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 It's going to be ranked warzones... not team deathmatch. This /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikingInsanity Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Are they bringing arena competitions in 1.2?? I think I missed that part. I thought the pvp ranking was going to still be based on Objective WZs. Someone clarify pls, cause arenas are a complete waste imo. They prove absolutely nothing. Voidstar is going to be one big 7vs7 fight or two smaller fights, huttball requires organized fights to control mid, and the civil war will also be one big 7vs7 fight or two smaller fights. I'm not sure why you think that 4v4/3v3/5v5/6v6/7v7/8v8 fights won't exist in rated warzones. Do you expect to win spamming AOE on doors/nodes and spam clicking nodes/doors? lol Edited March 13, 2012 by StrikingInsanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Voidstar is going to be one big 7vs7 fight or two smaller fights, huttball requires organized fights to control mid, and the civil war will also be one big 7vs7 fight or two smaller fights. I'm not sure why you think that 4v4/3v3/5v5/6v6/7v7/8v8 fights won't exist in rated warzones. Do you expect to win spamming AOE on doors/nodes and spam clicking nodes/doors? lol umm did you watch the video? you do not see a difference in the current 8v8 WZs, and this 50mx50m arena? You do not see a difference between focus/burst elimination in the shortest amount of time vs. the current strategies that are needed to win? You do not know the difference between medal farming and actually winning the objectives? Seriously do you see any skill or strategy in this type of arena competition, beyond "focus on the healer/squishy"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZanos Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I am pretty much sure that Operatives and juggernauts die pretty much instantaneusly when they got 2 sorcs nuking them at same time... and the only cd that helps assassins is the force immunity spell.. Marauders are the only sick defensive class in this game... So do not talk about melee the same u talk about marauders... Marauders are on a different lvl... And about the video...some 4v4 teams, that i doubt they have 4v4 experience vs all available combos...and without knowing the actual skill of each player...make u judge that sorc sucks and need buff in survivability.... Well, then...add 4 sorcs in huttball..tell them to focus 1 target at a time...and...on top of that, give them defensive CDs too that they lack...(according to you) Then sit back and watch the game get ruined... 4 of any class on a single target will kill it. How is that even relevant? Operatives are mediocre in PvP. On this point there is a consensus. DPS spec'd Jugs, and even tank spec too a point, are either excellent(dps) or passable(tank) in PvP. I also never said that sorcs were "awful." Operatives have a vanish and an evade to use in combat and medium armor, Juggernauts and Marauders have other defensive cooldowns. In burst damage situations, like this obviously was and most warzones are likely to be at the ranked level, they simple last much longer than the tissue paper that is a sorc. Is it likely to be as extreme in an actual warzone? No, because Sorcs have abilities they can use to kite people on various terrain with knockbacks and such, but I'd imagine it'll still be a problem. By the way, a period is the commonly accepted punctuation for ending a sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) In burst damage situations, like this obviously was and most warzones are likely to be at the ranked level, they simple last much longer than the tissue paper that is a sorc. I dont know what sorc you've been dealing with, but you are way off. DPS Sorc are cake, no biggie. But Healer spec is a whole different story. I have no issues whatsoever dealing Mauraders, sins, healer mercs/ops. But a healer sorc which a little squishier, has more survivability with their bag of tricks, which obviously only come into play in WZs not an arena like the video. Edited March 13, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZanos Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I dont know what sorc you've been dealing with, but you are way off. DPS Sorc are cake, no biggie. But Healer spec is a whole different story. I have no issues whatsoever dealing Mauraders, sins, healer mercs/ops. But a healer sorc which a little squishier, has more survivability with their bag of tricks, which obviously only come into play in WZs not an arena like the video. Healer specs are a different story. Well placed interrupts make quick work of them though, considering their best heal has a cast time. A healer spec with their salt will kite around corners constantly however. Mercs will just eat all of your damage with their no-interrupt shield and heal all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 That sorc in the video is a noob.. if it had been me no way I would have died. But if it gets us a pitty buff I'm proud of him regardless. Thanks for taking one for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zocat Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I agree generally but a stealthed buddy waiting near the goalline and you in the pit... Intercede up to him whille the opposing team jumps down into the pit screwing themselves over. Its funny when we pull it off. Or you could just pass the ball to him... Even adds the additional step for the enemies to switch to him and not just force leap / pull you back down instantly. @Op: Thanks for the recording Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 It's going to be ranked warzones... not team deathmatch. Controlling mid in huttball and defending nodes/doors in Alderaan and Voidstar are smaller battles like 'team deathmatch' already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getdownsb Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Don't waste your time, someone summed it up brilliantly as follows "All i saw was a guy complaining about the OPness of every class (the QQ about vanguard vanguard commando heal for ex), giving advice to everyone, whitout even be able to notice after 20+ days of playing that there is an ingame clock right under your minimap. How are we suppose to take your statements seriously ?" Here, I looked it up for you. Maybe go back to xbox? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerr Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Lopez from DAoC? commando healer/double vanguard shouldnt have won that tournament, in fact, that kind of speaks for itself Edited March 14, 2012 by Powerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 This was a very good event and highlights PVP class balance issues better than the incessant whining of terribad pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarlin Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Let me give a bit more information on this. I was the Vanguard running Ion (tank stance), and my spec was specific for the fight because it had great synergy with the other Vanguard's burn dots. There were only a total of six teams, (no snipers or gunslingers participated), and I believe there were only 2 or 3 players who were ranged DPS as well, the rest melee. One must also must consider the skill level of players can vary, giving mixed results in a small sample size, especially considering I know there are several really good players on our server that did not compete. Combined with the fact that an arena setting is very unexplored in this game, I wouldn't say this is a good enough sample to make any sweeping generalizations, but it is a start for sure. The strat we had was stupidly easy to pull off. I don't think any single heal team can survive a coordinated attack against two Vanguard/Powertech's absurd cooldowns, with our without guard. Only classes that can pop near-immunity type cooldowns have much of a chance to survive this. But one thing this event did highlight is just how incredibly terrible tab targeting is. You'll see competitors shoot, and even leap into the crowd. I believe I shot the crowd once and I'm quite sure they were either barely on my screen or weren't at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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