1.2's splitting PvP / PvE gear will irreversibly DAMAGE the game.

[lightertripod]

while I understand your point its from a certain point of view unfortunatly its wrong

 

progression in pve is based on getting the gear to beable to do the instances and so and so on its a contiunal thing (or at least thats the WoW model that every game maker feels they have to follow)

 

pvp is in part is the same thing (and in WoW is what its all about)

 

now you say that splitting the gear divides the two groups theres to major issue with this

 

first and maybe most important to many is that the two groups are divided on ideas prority's and mentality this makes for very bad bed fellows it causes rows fights and abuse

 

second and the reason that I would always go for a pvp gear split from pve if you have 1 lot of gear you force pvpers to pve but you don't force pvers to pvp ( when no one should be forced to do any thing at all )

 

even if you had gear without expertise gainable by pvp the pve stuff will always be better it just has to or the pvers would go nuts

 

what you want just does not work sorry

[StealthStalker]

Expertise as a PvE Stat, not PvP

 

There's various ways to address the problem, the question is if they'll ever be considered.

Edited March 12, 2012 by StealthStalker

[me_unknown]

Expertise as a PvE Stat, not PvP

 

There's various ways to address the problem, the question is if they'll ever be considered.

 

actually no. this would totally break everything. it is the worst idea ever!

 

one of the most important reasons for expertise is to prevent the need of regrinding gear with new PVE content. with the change in your post any pvper will have to grind for pve gear again and again when there comes new pve content.

because the new gear will not only have that pve-expertise rating but also better attributes overall. thus outperforming the current top pvp gear.

 

expertise must be on pvp gear and it must make pvp gear better in PVE than any pve gear that you ever will get in future pve content.

 

the only way expertise may be currently broken is that it is TOO WEAK!

 

edit: i really do not understand why people are complaining that expertise pvp gear is killing them so badly as fresh 50 while it is so easy to get the gear yourself.

 

THERE IS NO PROBLEM! jhust invest a few days to get the gear to be competitiv.

Edited March 12, 2012 by me_unknown

[da_krall]

Hey, Luciela here:

 

I stopped posting in this forum for a long time. I read somewhere patch 1.2 preview that bioware will be changing (probably buffing) expertise so that PvP and PvE gears will be even more incompatible.

 

 

After reading that, I'd have to stress that: splitting PvP / PvE gear will IRREVERSIBLY damage this game.

 

 

Making PvP and PvE incompatible with each other itemwise, will also further fuel the schism between PvP and PvE community. Many players tend to focus largely on progressing in either PVP or PVE, and are unwilling to invest in the less favorable gear. (I.E. I mainly play pvp. do operation in pvp gear 'for fun')

 

PVP/PVE gear incompatibility will further cause characters to be "specialized" in PvP or PvE. Since PVE gears will perform poorly in PVP, PVEers will be discouraged from playing PVP, and vice versa. This divide will be irreversible, since most PVPers will end up hating PVE, while PVEers will end up hating PVP.

 

In long story short, you plan to force players into dividing between PVP and PVE, and only let them play "half the game".

 

 

 

 

 

Exact same thing is what happened in WoW:

 

 

Remember in vanilla and burning crusade WoW, TOP pve guilds in the world also ran the top pvp teams? If you know any names, guilds such as Nihilum and SK Gaming excelled in both pvp and pve, with arena teams in SK top 200 arena list, blizzcon, MLG, and world first kills on virtually all bosses. Today, not only is such a thing unimaginable, but also there is so much hate between PvP and PvE community. So many posts scream "shut up pvp guy" or "pve is killing pvp" - sometimes I wonder how they even tolerate playing the same game with one another.

 

 

How did this all happen? It is because of resilience (same stat as expertise in SWTOR). TIMELINE:

 

1. Vanilla WoW - complete lack of resilience. Most players participate in both pve and pvp.

 

 

2. In the burning crusade expansion, resilience is introduced. However, TBC resilience only reduced damage from DOT and criticals, and was nowhere as good as it is today. This therefore made PvP gears subpar for raiding. However, (since resilience wasn't that great), some PvE gear gave large advantage in arena, and thought by some to be "required" for competitive PVP.

 

However, even this disadvantage wasn't as big as you think. One of my high school friends and his brother who played in BG9 ran the highest rated rogue + disc priest 2v2 in the world, with ZERO PvE gear. All other rogues they faced at their ratings were loaded with pve gears and dual warglaives of azzinoth (rogue were one of the more PVE gear dependent classes in TBC)

 

 

3. In wrath of the lich king expansion, blizzard completely overhauls resilience. It is now completely impossible to play competitively using PvE gears in PvP and vice versa. WoW community [permanently] splits into PVE and PVP. Most of the PvP imbalances are largely ignored throughout the expansion ("resilience will fix it" mentality by developers).

 

 

4. Over the years, Blizzard patches mostly according to numbers generated in PvE. Results: even more class imbalance in PvP. Animosity between pvp and pve communities further increases.

 

 

5. Fueled by schism between PvP / PvE and exacerbated by imbalance issues, PvP participation in wow declines DRAMATICALLY over time.

 

If you want to see the statistics, it is as following. Note: Gladiator = assigned to top 0.5% team on ladder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will this really happen to SWTOR? WoW and SWTOR are different games - no one can predict what will happen to this game.

 

 

Right now, I wear full battlemasters gear and have no problem running hard mode operations. PvE gears are also largely useable in PvP too, as long as one has 400+ expertise. Apparently, for whatever reason bioware doesn't want that, which I guess furthers their trend of copying only the bad part of wow, while ignoring the good part in an effort to appear different :/.

 

A piece of advice from Luciela - don't make PvE and PvP gears incompatible.

 

Bioware will not do what your asking, they cannot innovate in PvP only copy what has happened before. Therefore expect WoW clone PvP.

[SenatorPalpaTANG]

I agree with the OP personally. Artificial barriers between PvE and PvP are really unnecessary as long as the content is fun.

 

Look at the leveling experience from 1-49. There's almost no expertise gear to be found, but plenty of ways to progress. You have planetary commendation gear, FP gear, World Boss gear, PvP gear and crafted gear, all of which are roughly equal. And you have people taking part in all of it.

 

Why does that have to change at 50?

 

IMO all progression should be equal, that way you can improve your character by doing whichever you like best, without locking yourself out of the other aspects completely.

 

Casuals like OP demand to be given the best PvP / PvE gear mailed to them because they pay a monthly sub..

 

That's really not what he/she was asking for at all. Try to keep up.

[HoosierDuke]

I pvp'ed enough to get 3 characters to battlemasters and 2 of those also own a full rakata set.

 

I enjoy both part of the game. Why cant you?

 

The sadness of this statement is overwhelming...

[Manigma]

Expertise is nice and it keeps the pve gear out of dominating the pvp and the pvp gear out of dominating the pve.

 

you already cant just go into a hard-mode ops or whatever with pvp gear. either the guild will say no go do regulars and get your columni or you will wipe (dps is a little more forgiving of course)

 

The gear is already split, they are just making it more lucrative to be geared by the stuff your doing to do the stuff you want to do in the future. we'll still be able to do ops and things with partial pvp sets, and partial pve people will still not completely suck on the pvp side.

 

it will just be harder to do the top level content if you haven't done the bottom level content.

 

which makes sense....

You can do Hard Modes with Champ gear, the difference between it and Columi is minor and our Guild has done it easily enough not even with full Champ gear.

[Teabaker]

Yea, i agree. I really enjoyed PvP and PvE in Vanilla WoW but i actually was a PvP-Player. In BC however i switched to PvP only Edited March 12, 2012 by Teabaker

[Keldaur]

this is why they shouldn't even have expertise

 

 

it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht?

 

You would be right if it was because "expertise". It was because most pvp'ers couldn't get the top end gear and the ones with the skill (or friends to carry them) had a even bigger advantadge, so average and bad players who couldn't compete before, now they didn't even stand a chance gearwisely.

[TehHoneyBadger]

hmm, this thread has paradox written all over it...

[Manigma]

actually no. this would totally break everything. it is the worst idea ever!

 

one of the most important reasons for expertise is to prevent the need of regrinding gear with new PVE content. with the change in your post any pvper will have to grind for pve gear again and again when there comes new pve content.

because the new gear will not only have that pve-expertise rating but also better attributes overall. thus outperforming the current top pvp gear.

 

expertise must be on pvp gear and it must make pvp gear better in PVE than any pve gear that you ever will get in future pve content.

 

the only way expertise may be currently broken is that it is TOO WEAK!

 

edit: i really do not understand why people are complaining that expertise pvp gear is killing them so badly as fresh 50 while it is so easy to get the gear yourself.

 

THERE IS NO PROBLEM! jhust invest a few days to get the gear to be competitiv.

Not necessarily true, they are changing the diminishing returns on Expertise and also increasing Expertise stats on the next tier gear, could be that full PVP gear is actually better in 1.2 *gasp* we can only hope.

[me_unknown]

Not necessarily true, they are changing the diminishing returns on Expertise and also increasing Expertise stats on the next tier gear, could be that full PVP gear is actually better in 1.2 *gasp* we can only hope.

 

actually it doesn't matter if you increase the amount of expertise or its value.

[Affics]

I didn't play much BC but top pve guilds in wow were top pvp guilds in wow because top pve guilds in wow were the ones with all the gear. I know my rogue in a mix of T1/T2 was guaranteed 2 shot in 1.5 seconds vs any cloth in the game.

So true. My rogue with mix 4x4 a3/t6 was on top.

[Manigma]

actually it doesn't matter if you increase the amount of expertise or its value.

Yes it does, if they change it so it doesn't diminish so much at higher values it will be much more worthwhile stacking.

[Keldaur]

actually it doesn't matter if you increase the amount of expertise or its value.

 

It does if they buff it to a 20%, only problem i see, is how healing would escalate that way, since damage/mitigation remain more or less the same.

[GrandMike]

So basically, most of us that like both will have to choose one...this change is awesomely backwards.

[RealAeiouy]

Op, you are wrong.

[Rawksoss]

Should be interesting to see what pvp is going to be like in GW2 since they are going the route of no real healers. You will have to use the skills you have to get health back and/or the skills of others to provide protection/some sort of aoe heal from their attacks. I wonder if people that enjoy that games pvp will be whining about it. Who knows, no matter what game you play there is always going to be a debate between pve and pvpers. If they can figure out a system that allows lvl 10 to fight 49's Id like to think and hope they can come up with a better system then expertise. Perhaps that is no system and they can strip it down and stop it before it gets to big, see the error in their ways and be men enough to say " we effed up "

[xxdragonragexx]

Should be interesting to see what pvp is going to be like in GW2 since they are going the route of no real healers. You will have to use the skills you have to get health back and/or the skills of others to provide protection/some sort of aoe heal from their attacks. I wonder if people that enjoy that games pvp will be whining about it. Who knows, no matter what game you play there is always going to be a debate between pve and pvpers. If they can figure out a system that allows lvl 10 to fight 49's Id like to think and hope they can come up with a better system then expertise. Perhaps that is no system and they can strip it down and stop it before it gets to big, see the error in their ways and be men enough to say " we effed up "

 

There are healers in guild wars 2. You obviously never played GW1. I will tell you now, it will suck.

[Ubernooby]

So basically, most of us that like both will have to choose one...this change is awesomely backwards.

 

I totally agree! It would be a very sad day for me.

 

If I'm forced to choose between pvp and pve, I will choose a different game.

[bruttusone]

***, why are all those idiots complaining about

you wanna do PVE, and wanna have that PVE gear, do it

you wanna do PVP, and wanna have that PVPgear, do it

you can chance youre gear, how you spec, that is up to you

 

i find it normal, i don't grind pvpgear just to do pve in all those hardmodes, or i'm not bragging around that some people wearing theyre pvegear, or pieces of pvegear mixed with theyre pvp gear, so you can own the warzone

deal with it, and it will come in the greater good of this game, becouse PVPgear is easy to gett, thats a fact, but to gain that special gear, or whatever in PVE, you have to work for it in those instances, or are you all to lazy (this kind of crap and complains are breaking the game)

 

just two gears, you can storage youre gear away that you don't need, use that bank

[GrandMike]

I totally agree! It would be a very sad day for me.

 

If I'm forced to choose between pvp and pve, I will choose a different game.

 

Might happen. We will basically be split guild, and people are already watching whats going on with GW2.

 

If GW2 wll provide experience (and it will) to play PvE or PvP whether you grinded one or the other (basically how SWTOR is now) think that will nudge a lot of people rather than trying to repair split guild.

 

It should be about bringing people together, not setting them apart, PvE gear is better for PvE, easier and faster to get than PvP gear. Dont really see the problem here and why they see the need to change WORKING formula.

Edited March 12, 2012 by GrandMike

[InkZ_]

I still remember the days in WoW of getting rolled in PVP by full T1, T2 geared toons. Our guild took ages to get 40 man raids going and battlegrounds were just dominated by gear.

 

Resilience was the best thing they ever did by upping survivability allowing proper fights.

 

Just keep it as it is, it's fine. I don't want my PVP to be dictated by who attends the most raids and I don't want to grind PVP to be able to roll in to high level end game content. I'd rather work through the ranks thanks.

 

I expect my PVP gear to be above entry level for raiding without being as good as the PVE gear so I can progress.

 

Using the same gear for both absolutely killed PVP in WoW.

 

You can't balance PVE and PVP it just doesn't work. Been there, done that.

[me_unknown]

Yes it does, if they change it so it doesn't diminish so much at higher values it will be much more worthwhile stacking.

 

i think you misunderstand me. i was ust saying that we need more of the effect of expertise. my point was simply that pvp gear must be FAR MORE better in pvp than any pve gear currently and in the future.

 

i think if you reread my post you'll see this. so there is no need to actually repeat my intension of the post.

 

it doesn't matter how exactly you accomplish this, either by giving enough expertise to fullfil the above aim even with current diminsihihng returns or by lowering the diminishing return of current expertise.

 

the result matters!

[me_unknown]

Might happen. We will basically be split guild, and people are already watching whats going on with GW2.

 

If GW2 wll provide experience (and it will) to play PvE or PvP whether you grinded one or the other (basically how SWTOR is now) think that will nudge a lot of people rather than trying to repair split guild.

 

It should be about bringing people together, not setting them apart, PvE gear is better for PvE, easier and faster to get than PvP gear. Dont really see the problem here and why they see the need to change WORKING formula.

 

you can't have this and a skilled pvp together!

 

you either have always to grind pve to be competitive in pvp as soon as there comes new pve content with better pve gear or you have to seperate pvp gear from pve gear.

 

so you have to chose:

1. pvp by skill and not by endless grinding gear

OR

2. pvp gear good for pve and pvp even with pve progress.

 

both is not possible. at least i have no idea how you could achive such a thing.