1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

[Incendergel]

If that were the case then all players would play in the same footwear, use the same peripherals ect, but they dont (the fact we have entire industries based on selling these things should make this obvious).

 

Even in a real life sport where everything is meant ot be equal and fair, some margin of variance is allowed. It should be the same in a MMO's PvP, especially considering what we actually have is character vs character, where the avatar you are using is one you have grown over an extended period of time.

 

Its not like other games where you just pick a stock character/class and are ready to go with all the tools required to be competitive.

 

Edit: to clarify- in Football, performance enhancing drugs are not allow, but one play may have crappy boots while the other has a pair of Adidas Predators. The Adidas boots will give a margin of performance boost, even if its only 1%. That is right and proper and can easily be reflected in gear progression here without creating imbalance.

 

This!

 

People find ways to stack the decks in their favor to win. Not everything is the same like what is being proposed within the 1.2 patch. There is an incentive to trade, cheat, or drink green tea to empower your mind. To watch videos of prior games, to do something in order to improve.

 

In BF3 you gain ranks and ranks provide weapons that someone new isn't going to have. Also, someone new to the game isn't going to know the ins and outs of the various maps. So if you didn't play BF3 prior to today you are going in just like a fresh level 50 would into a warzone. Thus my point.

 

Tell you want. I'm pretty sure most of this bantering hasn't accomplished much. Some people have actually said hmm....maybe. Others said yeah, I can see your point, what about this. Some agree to disagree. Some just flat out say no way - the sky is falling. I really don't know what it is going to be.

 

If the dev's asked me. Yo! Incendergel! What do you think of our proposed 1.2 pvp changes.

 

I'd honestly have to tell them no. Don't implement them yet. Before you make those changes why don't we focus on building a web portal for some weekly, monthly information for bragging rights. While we are doing that let us continue to collect some stats from the database and do some deep level analysis to see what is going on. Then we can revisit the whole thing and propose several ideas.

 

The guild summit is when that should have happened. Take the pulse and go from there.

 

D3 is coming. Not sure how popular of a game that will be.

GW2 is coming. Again, not sure. But it is PvP and free after you buy the client.

Panda Express is coming - honestly, hype is in world pvp and questing near one another.

 

What else is I honestly don't know. But if I was employeed by Bioware then I would do whatever I could to make my game different than those three to keep the subscriber base. And regardless of how easy or hard we make it people like to escape reality and bash some faces in.

 

Hugs, golden bombs of light and love to you all.

[MPagano]

This!

 

People find ways to stack the decks in their favor to win. Not everything is the same like what is being proposed within the 1.2 patch. There is an incentive to trade, cheat, or drink green tea to empower your mind. To watch videos of prior games, to do something in order to improve.

 

Actually, these examples are exactly like 1.2

 

"here are some sweet kicks, they'll make you run faster"

 

"here's a new bat, you'll save your elbows and hit 30 yds further per swing"

 

They aren't going to a player and saying "oooh, we'd give you this new bat and these shoes, but you haven't played for 30 hours this week so you're SOL"

 

In fact, ironically, it's the opposite!

 

When a hot, young, inexperienced but very talented player hits the league, people are chompin at the bit for him. Why is this? In your examples, he hasn't put in the time and should not be awarded the equipment to succeed. Yet, the new athlete will be the star of every equipment endorsement on television. He'll be decked out in the new gear. He'll be given access to the equipment just like every other player in the league and he'll have all the same tools to compete.

 

So yes, I finally agree with you. There should be nothing withheld from pvp players simply because they haven't had the chance to prove themselves yet. Just like in real life.

[Silverveign]

I was not really concerned with what the OP is upset with. Bad players in good gear are still bad players. As such they will still stand on the lip of the pit in huttball in front of the goal, or stand close enough for a sith warrior to force charge over the gap in voidstar, or any of the other dozens of things that make you want to drink heavily while trying to PvP.

 

What I am concerned with is the ranked warzones will be introduced to us with no cross server functionality.

 

Why should this matter? I sat down the other evening and did a bit of thinking. At any given time there is only a player base capable of supporting 3-4 full eight mans on the republic faction on Lord Praven. So I am worried that the queue time for these rated warzones will just be longer than what we are accustomed to. (30-45 min queues) This is also assuming that *every* level 50 on is involved in a rated warzone. (I know.... ugh)

 

While this is not the end of the world, it does make me frown thinking about how I am going to be bored running in circles on the Republic fleet for a few hours every time my group PvPs.

 

And to be honest this game does not need any more frowny faces.

[DarthPunitor]

good riddance

[Incendergel]

 

So yes, I finally agree with you. There should be nothing withheld from pvp players simply because they haven't had the chance to prove themselves yet. Just like in real life.

 

Actually.....you don't.

 

They are not equal and something is different. That is what sets them apart. We know this because we see the roid issue, yeah? Motorsports we see people using different parts that make them go faster.

 

Nothing is withheld - correct. The only difference to be honest is that the person who started to pvp in our virtual world will have a lead time of many things before that of someone who started late. Experience, gear, knowledge.

 

You know where I'm going

 

There should be nothing withheld from pve players simply because they haven't had the chance to prove themselves yet....

 

Tell you what. Beverage to you too!

[MPagano]

Actually.....you don't.

 

They are not equal and something is different. That is what sets them apart. We know this because we see the roid issue, yeah? Motorsports we see people using different parts that make them go faster.

 

Nothing is withheld - correct. The only difference to be honest is that the person who started to pvp in our virtual world will have a lead time of many things before that of someone who started late. Experience, gear, knowledge.

 

You know where I'm going

 

There should be nothing withheld from pve players simply because they haven't had the chance to prove themselves yet....

 

Tell you what. Beverage to you too!

 

Steroids are illegal, and rookies beat pros all the time because the rookies are better. The pros aren't wearing helmet with laser beams or shoes with rockets on them. Everyone is wearing the same stuff, everyone is a human. Those people in motorcross who have different parts have th eknowledge to choose and install those parts. They didn't go to the store where only racers of a certain rank can shop.

 

If anything, the rookies are more impressive because they lack experience but still compete. PvP gear progression makes this mipossible. People who claim to beat BM players wearing quest gear with no expertise are either lying are describing a fight where the player was AFK. Even a terrible player in BM gear can beat any player with no expertise just by spamming auto attack.

Edited March 15, 2012 by MPagano

[MartyrLXXVII]

Actually.....you don't.

 

They are not equal and something is different. That is what sets them apart. We know this because we see the roid issue, yeah? Motorsports we see people using different parts that make them go faster.

 

Nothing is withheld - correct. The only difference to be honest is that the person who started to pvp in our virtual world will have a lead time of many things before that of someone who started late. Experience, gear, knowledge.

 

You know where I'm going

 

There should be nothing withheld from pve players simply because they haven't had the chance to prove themselves yet....

 

Tell you what. Beverage to you too!

 

I told you, motor sport is a bad example for you. Yeah they can use different parts, but there are still regulations they must abide by. They can't use anything they like they can only use what's in the rules to keep things even so the skill and experience of the pit crew and driver decide the race, not the car. The only way the car wins or losses is how its setup for a race, ie its build/spec.

 

You are completely off bases on your examples.

[Incendergel]

Steroids are illegal, and rookies beat pros all the time because the rookies are better. The pros aren't wearing helmet with laser beams or shoes with rockets on them. Everyone is wearing the same stuff, everyone is a human. Those people in motorcross who have different parts have th eknowledge to choose and install those parts. They didn't go to the store where only racers of a certain rank can shop.

 

If anything, the rookies are more impressive because they lack experience but still compete. PvP gear progression makes this mipossible. People who claim to beat BM players wearing quest gear with no expertise are either lying are describing a fight where the player was AFK. Even a terrible player in BM gear can beat any player with no expertise just by spamming auto attack.

 

Hmm...and what rookie pray tell hit 70+ home runs?

 

What rookie has won any motorsport championship? Nigel Mansel maybe but he drove F1 before Indy...so probably doesn't count.

 

Not everyone is wearing the same stuff otherwise they would be all using the same gloves, shoes, etc. High level, yeah - same pads, helmet, etc. Brains are not the same in chess players. Let us get super silly but they are not the same. We both know it.

 

Rookies are rookies. They are green. They don't have the same knowledge as pro's. It is why pro players beat more often than not college players or double a, triple a. I can go on and on. That is why there is a separation of levels.

 

I've beat many a player in BM gear because they don't key bind, because they back pedal. Because they don't know what my gunslinger can or can't do. Maybe I just knew when to interupt them. Dunno.

 

Maybe I had better latency than they did. Maybe I was wearing green socks and drinking whiskey out of a sipiee cup. I really don't know. What I do know though is this. Placing a 1.2 patch live without any incentives to PvP is going to remove a subset of the player base.

 

The only thing left will be a theme park in outter space. This was done before with the original SWG game. If you played it you would know, it was the combat patch after jump to lightspeed.

[Incendergel]

I told you, motor sport is a bad example for you. Yeah they can use different parts, but there are still regulations they must abide by. They can't use anything they like they can only use what's in the rules to keep things even so the skill and experience of the pit crew and driver decide the race, not the car. The only way the car wins or losses is how its setup for a race, ie its build/spec.

 

You are completely off bases on your examples.

 

Not from the cheating perspective. Junior Johnson once built a car 1/4 scale and won several races before he was caught. Good ol moonshiner always cheating

 

And tell that to Rick Hendrick who is appealing his fine, point loss, and suspended crew chief. They had a different C pillar....

 

See - not so off base I guess after all. Although I think I have to eat crow on the rookie part. I believe Nigel Mansel won the indy title and was flagged as a rookie. Two things though in my defense. 1. He was driving a Ford Cosworth engine which my grandmother could have drove and won a race, and 2. he was a former F1 driver for many years. So not exactly a rookie like others.

[dirtyv]

I cant believe I read almost 90 pages of this thread, but it would seem the majority are looking forward to the changes.

 

For people not in agreement I hope they have some stuff for you to work for.

 

One person put it best when they said there just needs to be some things that are hard to get... I think this is more in line with what is needed too.

 

Like I said earlier I would prefer no gear progression because I hate having to upgrade my gear every few months with some long grind.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Not from the cheating perspective. Junior Johnson once built a car 1/4 scale and won several races before he was caught. Good ol moonshiner always cheating

 

And tell that to Rick Hendrick who is appealing his fine, point loss, and suspended crew chief. They had a different C pillar....

 

See - not so off base I guess after all. Although I think I have to eat crow on the rookie part. I believe Nigel Mansel won the indy title and was flagged as a rookie. Two things though in my defense. 1. He was driving a Ford Cosworth engine which my grandmother could have drove and won a race, and 2. he was a former F1 driver for many years. So not exactly a rookie like others.

 

Hmm, people have been punished for using things outside the rules? Sounds like a level playing field to me.

 

Although to be fair you could have whatever stats you wanted I guess since BW doesn't ban hackers. *shrug*

 

But as I also aside, just because players in team sports don't all have the same stuff it still have to be equal. Hockey, goalies can't have pads or sticks larger then whatever the rules dictate, they don't get a gear advantage.

[Incendergel]

But as I also aside, just because players in team sports don't all have the same stuff it still have to be equal. Hockey, goalies can't have pads or sticks larger then whatever the rules dictate, they don't get a gear advantage.

 

Very true. I agree.

[Sleepys]

Go back to WoW, because THEIR pvp is so much better *snicker*.

[Masturomenos]

In some sports your even penalized for winning like car racing you add weight or have smaller restrictor on intake.

[Blasphemerr]

I think it'll be funny when people realise this "free credit gear" will probably cost like 250k each, bioware doesn't know how to price things

[Aelannor]

I hope you're right. The game is only going to be improved by people who require a gear gap in PvP leaving.

[MartyrLXXVII]

I think it'll be funny when people realise this "free credit gear" will probably cost like 250k each, bioware doesn't know how to price things

 

Meh, not like there is anything to spend money on post 50 anyway.

[richardya]

When a hot, young, inexperienced but very talented player hits the league, people are chompin at the bit for him. Why is this? In your examples, he hasn't put in the time and should not be awarded the equipment to succeed. Yet, the new athlete will be the star of every equipment endorsement on television. He'll be decked out in the new gear. He'll be given access to the equipment just like every other player in the league and he'll have all the same tools to compete.

 

So yes, I finally agree with you. There should be nothing withheld from pvp players simply because they haven't had the chance to prove themselves yet. Just like in real life.

 

These analogies are insane.

This is a progression based MMO.

People like leveling, getting abilities and gear. It's fun.

 

As long as they keep the gear in line and not faceroll good there should be progression.

 

Example of good: Battlemaster Vs Champion

Example of bad: Champion Vs Centurian

[MartyrLXXVII]

These analogies are insane.

This is a progression based MMO.

People like leveling, getting abilities and gear. It's fun.

 

As long as they keep the gear in line and not faceroll good there should be progression.

 

Example of good: Battlemaster Vs Champion

Example of bad: Champion Vs Centurian

 

So in your opinion its 50/50 if they get it right. So why not skip any more screw UPS and just have a progression without stats.

[Cheeseblaster]

Why not just make PVP completely equal.

 

Everyone entering a warzone gets same stats, damage potential, armor, no stat bonuses, no more damage that doesn't get mitigated by armor etc..

 

Minus that it sounds like everyone just wants someone else's advantage to get nerfed.

 

But make everything equal you get your fair and balanced even playing field.

 

Or make it a very narrow gear rating allowed to be used.

 

BW set this game up to be progression based, with armor/weapons etc.. being part of that. People have every right to be angry they're completely changing the way it's set up.

 

But hey, people don't want to earn their stripes. They want everything equal. So make everything truly equal. Short of that it's just a bunch of whining.

[cyionide]

yes because getting constantly facerolled by geared out 50's is so much fun for people just starting out in the 50 pvp

[Incendergel]

yes because getting constantly facerolled by geared out 50's is so much fun for people just starting out in the 50 pvp

 

Because in the guild summit they said "OMG!" Look at how popular PvP is. True story.

 

Why? Because the gear is easier to get than it is to in PvE.... Hence the name welfare epics. People flock to the easier path in life. Virtual and real world. This isn't Utopia where everyone is equal. People work and earn money. People who don't work go hungry and starve. People who strive for more power become something those that don't are average.

 

One thing we all here on the forums "DO" have in common though is that we pay Bioware anywhere from 12 to 15 bucks a month to play a stupid video game. Why? Because we all want to have fun.

 

MMO's again are progressive by nature. They have hooks which make people want to login the next day. By logging in they also pay a monthly fee otherwise it is over and they don't login. Simple. Call it a carrot, hook, I really don't care.

 

If you are constantly getting facerolled by geared out 50's then you are the problem, not bioware. They provided a means for you to gear up you just chose not too. No more than what I would have to do in order to raid. Again...

 

Welfare epics was coin'd by another MMO player base because people didn't want to do the effort or time in order to get shiny objects. That is a FACT!

[Seriasx]

I like how you guys clamoring for superior gear think the serious pvpers give 2 ***** what were wearing on our toon.

 

We dont care what we wear, all we want is for gear to not be the deciding factor in pvp combat because its not fun for the guy who lost, he doesnt get to learn anything from his loss other then he needs to farm gear and for the winner its as unrewarding of an experience as you can have in a game. Oh great I just beat someone who could very well be better than me but luckily I had 10 shinies to his 5? Its well beyond stupid.

 

I get that you guys think gear is cool and you prize it above all else, all I'm saying is that the rest of us dont care at all, we could be using a loin cloth and a rock hammer if the pvp is fun then it does not matter.

 

Also if you only play for the gear in pvp then why bother? If you dont even enjoy the pvp you wont be around much longer n/m how often BW resets gear.

 

In short, get better at games as opposed to spending your lives in a game for one you might learn something and for another you might make a friend or something IRL.

[Bullsith]

Let them quit. I'd rather those type of people were not in the game to start with. Warzones need to be competative and not all about geeks who play 24/7 and have the best gear.

 

Yes, let's have anyone who actually tries to PVP quit, so the bads can be kings.

 

I'm not one to demand better gear by far, but for **** sake, stop making gearing up in this game so gosh darn easy.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Bullsith

[Gadian]

 

Time spent grinding usually and should give a slight advantage over newbies who haven't invested the same amount.

 

Yes, it should, and it does. That advantage is called increased experience and skill.

 

If the only reason Mr. War Hero (who logs 8+ hours per day) is able to beat Mr. Casual (who plays a few hours at night/on the weekend) is a gear advantage, then Mr. War Hero needs to work on his pvp game. If Mr. War Hero is able to stand on his skill and experience, then why would he care if Mr. Casual fights him on equal footing? A true pvper and competitor would prefer that all matches be based on who is actually better, not who has a distinct gear advantage because they grind more.

 

Gear is not, nor should it be, a reward for hours logged. If you are unable to take advantage of the the vast hours played advantage you might have over other players and use it to out-skill or out-technique them, then you need only blame yourself.