Dafroog Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The playing field is even. All players in SWTOR have the choice of using the same gear/skills. Not if the gear is attached to a false barrier like valor or rank, then it becomes less of a choice and more about who has the spare time to grind, by removing the grind barrier they have made the field even because everyone has access to the same level of rewards regardless of how long they have been 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyLightATX Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 only cowards quit right before rateds come out, you heard me /agree The truth hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Not if the gear is attached to a false barrier like valor or rank, then it becomes less of a choice and more about who has the spare time to grind, by removing the grind barrier they have made the field even because everyone has access to the same level of rewards regardless of how long they have been 50 imagine if you had to run EV normal 500 times before you could unlock the hard modes. i can't figure out why people think this kind of gating is good for PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 imagine if you had to run EV normal 500 times before you could unlock the hard modes. i can't figure out why people think this kind of gating is good for PVP. It allows them to roflstomp people which they would not have the skill to do otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtwozero Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You now get up to 3.5k valor from a warzone and 3 credits toward Illum daily/weekly.... Where is the grind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nhaok Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) It allows them to roflstomp people which they would not have the skill to do otherwise. You do realize that there is very little difference between Champ gear and BM gear. A full set of mixed Cent/Champ gear only takes a week or so to get. By this time of reading the forums I am now really ready for gear to be very easy to obtain and excited about the change of the style. I will be coming back to the forums after 1.2 and will be very interested in seeing what poor quality players complain about once they have stopped complaining that the reason they were losing was because of gear and not because of lazyness and sub par playing. See you on the WZ I hope sir. Edited March 11, 2012 by Nhaok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You now get up to 3.5k valor from a warzone and 3 credits toward Illum daily/weekly.... Where is the grind? In doing those warzones day after day to get gear. If you enjoy that great. Awesome have fun with it. But shouldnt pvp be more than just warzones? Should the motivation be daily/weekly quests? There's no proper pvp objectives, just Illum and warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafroog Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 imagine if you had to run EV normal 500 times before you could unlock the hard modes. i can't figure out why people think this kind of gating is good for PVP. I'm saying almost the complete oposite to what you are suggesting I am. The current system is how you describe, its grinding to get the better gear, the new system is removing the grind by removing the barrier of requiring valor rank or rating. I am saying the old system is flawed as it gives an advantage for nothing more than having more free time, the new system gives everyone the same access to the same gear all you need is the currency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portichae Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) - I am not confusing PvE grind with PvP. The way this game was set up was that in order to be able to use some of the higher level items in pvp you must first be able to reach a stated number of valor. This was accomplished though playing in Player vs. Player matches. Depending on the definition of "grind". One must play many pvp matches in order to have access to top pvp gear. This was a PvP grind which is not original to SWTOR. - I agree with you. The nature of a MMO is not a grind. The way SWTOR was set up and the way people have been playing it thus far has been a grind style of sorts. (Yes I know, not like some Korean grind MMO some would like to argue this statement against.) - Which is why which argument is invalid? That I do not agree that the comparison between an Olympic athlete and the style of SWTOR pvp was correct? I still believe this argument to be applicable to the situation. Just because one game has a set of rules does not mean another game should have to use those same rules. They are two different games. I have no doubt that you can accurately compare apples and oranges. The phrased I used was a popular figure of speech which I'm sure you are familiar. I was stating in the comparison the poster was trying to justify his opinion by stating two different things were the same, which they were not. The fact that you made the statement "it's like comparing apples and oranges" simply reinforces the argument that you don't understand how comparisons can and are made. my comparison was and still remains valid if you don't see why the comparison is a valid one please read above this paragraph. you've agreed with me that your statement was invalid. I'm not sure why you still feel you have a basis for an argument. I've tried to explain this simply. Some one else quoted me and succinctly explained why removing gear as a competitive crutch is needed and why having a competitive edge undermines competition. Edited March 11, 2012 by portichae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomjchx Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Since im pver only as ur customer BW I want all PVE gear to be obtained in same amount of time these noob obtaining war hero gear. Okej np kill gea progression for me but I want all pve hm/nm mode to be dropped everywhere. Because we play for fun not for gear!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyllum Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Being guild gm of what i consider to be best pvp guild on darth malak i have a few issues with the pvp system in this game but not really major... 1) make the gear harder to get... and no im not talking about having insane rating to get the gear or w.e but the pace at which u can get gear in this is just a joke. ppl can hit 50 and a week later have almost full champ gear which is basically battlemaster gear. 2) for people who will have a high rating in pvp at least have some incentives to get it, maybe not op gear but different colors, mounts etc something people who cant get the rating should not have other than that i really like this game and have high hopes for the future of this game. From what others said i also hate 3 shotting low geared ppl.... just doesnt give the excitement of owning some1 with the same gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafroog Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Since im pver only as ur customer BW I want all PVE gear to be obtained in same amount of time these noob obtaining war hero gear. Okej np kill gea progression for me but I want all pve hm/nm mode to be dropped everywhere. Because we play for fun not for gear!!! There is a massive difference tho, PvE content is tuned and gated by stats, PvP isnt, PvE content is designed so you NEED more stats to progress through the content, its a way of gating your progression, PvP content isnt gated, its just about who has the better team, the only reason PvP gear exists at all is to prevent PvE players from dominating in PvP Edited March 11, 2012 by Dafroog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEKHAN Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I enjoy WZ's, but without progression... I mean it's fun but it's exactly the same thing time after time after time, and with a WZ full of ranked experienced players it's just going to be 1v1's scattered around the place fighting they're equals. Or worse still the same groups of people winning every warzone. Look at any other online games, even FPS shooters like Battlefield have progression that takes months or a year to complete. And even then you can pick different weapons for each class and so it's totally different gameplay every time. Let's take the daily commendation rewards away from the Dailys and see how many complete the same ones taking 2hours every day for 365 days a year... Without looking forward to something extra for your character to improve them against others there is no true competition, there is just THE WAY to do things, which are usually press 2,1,6 - Heal, 2,2,2 and eventually everyone will be exactly the same class pressing buttons exactly the same way, I understand they're saying 'lets take out progression and make it about the fun' but hands up whose servers havn't dropped most of they're population simply because they game ISN'T 'fun'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I enjoy WZ's, but without progression... I mean it's fun but it's exactly the same thing time after time after time, and with a WZ full of ranked experienced players it's just going to be 1v1's scattered around the place fighting they're equals. Or worse still the same groups of people winning every warzone. Look at any other online games, even FPS shooters like Battlefield have progression that takes months or a year to complete. And even then you can pick different weapons for each class and so it's totally different gameplay every time. Let's take the daily commendation rewards away from the Dailys and see how many complete the same ones taking 2hours every day for 365 days a year... Without looking forward to something extra for your character to improve them against others there is no true competition, there is just THE WAY to do things, which are usually press 2,1,6 - Heal, 2,2,2 and eventually everyone will be exactly the same class pressing buttons exactly the same way, I understand they're saying 'lets take out progression and make it about the fun' but hands up whose servers havn't dropped most of they're population simply because they game ISN'T 'fun'? Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You do realize that there is very little difference between Champ gear and BM gear. A full set of mixed Cent/Champ gear only takes a week or so to get. By this time of reading the forums I am now really ready for gear to be very easy to obtain and excited about the change of the style. I will be coming back to the forums after 1.2 and will be very interested in seeing what poor quality players complain about once they have stopped complaining that the reason they were losing was because of gear and not because of lazyness and sub par playing. See you on the WZ I hope sir. I said it a million times but ppl just can't grasp it. If they think the only reason they are getting rolled is because of the minimal gear stat gap, then they got some surprises come 1.2 when we are all equal and they are still losing constantly..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasheth Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 take the gear progression away and it will cause min/max teams that can't be beat unless you have the same combination of abilities. Hypothetically speaking if everyone is on the same level gear wise, lets say the best combination team from a abilities perspective is 3 sages 3 tanks 1 dps 1 ranged dps. If that combination is the best in game then there is no way to overcome in a premade environment. People can be lazy get their gear that is handed to them and makes them equal and not even so much as CTRL+Right Click once to itemize. Right now people take champ enhancements to put in BM gear and there is some playing around with what you do to make sure your set up correctly. Of course this is class dependent also. If its so dumbed down as to "Here is your gear go play" a min/maxed team is going to be impossible to beat. People will eventually figure out what is best combination those that like to eeek out the most efficient setup will figure it out. So joe is pugging it up loves pvp wants to do ranked gets his gear that puts him on equal level grabs his buddies who rolled the class they "liked" though not optimal. They get rofl stomped by the min/maxed teams all day long. So joe says my team sucks im joining those guys and they say sorry buddy your team doesnt fit the composition. Right now you can over come some of your class inefficiencies through stats. If everyone is the same it will be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nissetuta Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Surely min/maxxing won't be that easy as you make it seem to be...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kottonmouth Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Let them quit. I'd rather those type of people were not in the game to start with. Warzones need to be competative and not all about geeks who play 24/7 and have the best gear. this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarray Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 this! Haha. Your short sightedness amuse me. I do agree even playing field yields the most competitive environment HOW EVER MMOs are about progression. Too many, it is not fun to simply play pvp just for the sake of it, we, as any other PvE'er also pay a monthly fee to keep us entertained, and what do this mean? This means that we want to invest more time into the game compared to a game like Battlefield (while I love this game, I will never play as often as I play MMO's) Thats why we need a carrot on a stick - gear grind. As I've mentioned many times before the exact same model is being used on PvE. Grind boss til he dies and get rewarded with gear. And then to compare with other genres, how many times have you truely felt the urge to repeat a single player game again? MMO = effort yields reward. If this model is broken people will leave, cause we will lose entertainment and might as well play a game you dont have to pay for each month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almghty_gir Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Haha. Your short sightedness amuse me. To many, it is not fun to simply play pvp just for the sake of it your short sightedness amuses me. why are you pvping if you don't enjoy it for what it is? player vs player combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawksoss Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Grind after grind what is the point, who honestly looks forward to grinding out new gear each season. Not this guy I am all ready for this to come into effect the sooner the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtwozero Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) In doing those warzones day after day to get gear. If you enjoy that great. Awesome have fun with it. But shouldnt pvp be more than just warzones? Should the motivation be daily/weekly quests? There's no proper pvp objectives, just Illum and warzones. As opposed to running HMs and Ops? I can't stand doing pve dailies so I don't but I don't complain that I should get the rewards that people get for doing this when I don't. What do you want for nothing? Top tier gear isn't going to help the majority of people complaining. If it happens they will then want more and complain about something else like more 'omg nerf this' threads. It's a vicious circle that panda's to people who want game play changed to suit their play style rather than adapting their play style to suit the game play. Edited March 12, 2012 by Rtwozero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarray Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 your short sightedness amuses me. why are you pvping if you don't enjoy it for what it is? player vs player combat. I do enjoy pvp, but its not gonna be worth monthly payment if there is no progression. I might as well play BF. And just to beat you to it, being happy that people like my might leave doesnt make your day in the long end, cause PvP community is a large part of the community and if they leave, the game will decline due to few subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taerrik Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Current system is welfare valor anyway. The only people who lose anything are people who quit wzs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainew Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) A slight advantage is still an advantage. Your still asking for a stat advantage over other players, which is a ridiculous request in PvP. I completely agree that players who put in the time and win many matches should be rewarded for their achievements; however the reward shouldn't put them at an advantage. Guild Wars has a fantastic reward system that are simply cosmetic such as Specialty capes Achievement aura's and un-moded specialty PvP gear. I like the idea of competing against equally geared equally ranked players. Why don't you? Yes it should it we play better we deserve slightly better stats. Nothing is stopping you from getting these stats in the new patch. Except you and the general attitude of not wanting to work for anything. Cosmetics are not acceptable rewards (even though I love looking fabulous max) We need a gear path and purpose. This is not a FPS game stop trying to turn it into one. This is not guild wars. Edited March 12, 2012 by Ainew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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