Ezren Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm not claiming to know exactly how OPs healing is. I play a powertech dps. I DO have a sorc healer, and a OPs healer alt. I agree at least at low level the sorc is seriously more powerful a healer (than again both my alts are VERY low level). That aside, I'm presently in a guild that cleared 8 man Nightmare modes and recently move on to 16 mans, clearing both with Unyielding and Infernal titles. We have 3 healers. 1 merc healer and 2 OPs. I hear the merc going over heat about once per fight, and one of the OPs is a dedicated raid healer. I don't know healing assignments, because it isn't my job, but Healing is NEVER an issue. TL: DR Sorc/sages arent needed. Enjoy the things that are different about each class. And I spoke with my OPs healers and they said they NEVER have energy issues. So whatever you are doing, you are doing it wrong. Its not about running out of energy. Its really not. Its about the inbalance between sages and operatives. Ops CAN heal every current thing in game. They just have to work harder, pay more attention to detail and basically be GREAT to accomplish something an average sage healer can do. There is a disparity that needs fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 TL: DR Sorc/sages arent needed. Enjoy the things that are different about each class. And I spoke with my OPs healers and they said they NEVER have energy issues. So whatever you are doing, you are doing it wrong. It's true. Operatives/Scoundrels can manage to heal Nightmare modes. They can DPS and still do okay there as well. The point is...other classes can do it better. Sages/Sorcs in particular can do it very well comparatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 OP Healer is far superior than Sorcerer in PvP -not saying Sorcerer is bad- but the fact remains that many players just can't play.itemize correctly. You can't play unless others hold your hand and make youtube guides for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezren Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 OP Healer is far superior than Sorcerer in PvP -not saying Sorcerer is bad- but the fact remains that many players just can't play.itemize correctly. You can't play unless others hold your hand and make youtube guides for you? In what way are op healers better than sages in pvp? I am actually curious what you think gives them a benefit over sages who have force speed, bubble, knockback, out of stealth usable crowd control not to even bring the heals into the mix. Now I am not attempting to do anything other than actually find out what you see as better, since I really am curious what you see as being better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selemnos Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 In what way are op healers better than sages in pvp? I am actually curious what you think gives them a benefit over sages who have force speed, bubble, knockback, out of stealth usable crowd control not to even bring the heals into the mix. Now I am not attempting to do anything other than actually find out what you see as better, since I really am curious what you see as being better? Don't expect a reply. This guy has been trolling multiple threads. Very weakly I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggz Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hey brah, It's already been proven in countless threads that agents get the shaft when it comes to comparing sorc to agent (even merc to agent?). Additionally, this is the first time I've ever seen a dev answer -any- agent complaint about anything. As I play an operative healer, I still do fine in ops and flashpoints. That's not the issue. Like Animal Farm, the healers in this game do more "fine" than others, often by a wide margin. The people who are discussing the inherent issues with agent mechanics deserve a little more respect. Does the OP? That's up for discussion. The fact that you responded to a pot shot thread rather than people who carefully maintain and update their agent threads with statistical evidence that heavily favors any other healer than the agent shows that you really don't take the agent community seriously and are perfectly willing to let our class fade into the background to please the majority. I can understand your frustration, but this is the first time I've been appalled at a dev response- not because of your "witty" retort in this thread, but because after all of the devs ignoring perfectly legitimate complaints about our class mechanics for what seems like the beginning of launch, this is the thread you chose to respond to, acting like a child rather than addressing the agent community's complaints at large. Pathetic. You speak the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunharla Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hey, We're perfectly aware that this difference exists. It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors. The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular. Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed. Georg edit: fixed a typo where "Consular" should have appeared! Best Dev post ever! Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Malice Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Sweet you got a dev reply, I guess people can troll them out. Edited March 9, 2012 by Darth-Malice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggz Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Sweet you got a dev reply, I guess people can troll them out. All that post says to me is... Healing is like cutting a steak Sorc's get steak knifes Merc's and operatives get butter knifes How is this fair? Because scoundrels and commandos get butter knifes too Yea ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalmac Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Hey, We're perfectly aware that this difference exists. It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors. The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular. Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed. Georg edit: fixed a typo where "Consular" should have appeared! Let me get this straight: My Koto Cloud cost 26 Energy out of 100 every cast. So that is over 1/4 of my energy. Your favorite class (Inquisitors) it costs a fraction of that as it scales with gear. Koto Cloud always costs 26 energy no matter what gear I get. If this is by design then that is one bad design. One class scales and the other does not? Edited March 9, 2012 by Metalmac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohnur Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hey, We're perfectly aware that this difference exists. It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors. The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular. Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed. Georg edit: fixed a typo where "Consular" should have appeared! Wow, this is how the devs answer their customers' legitimate concerns? Very rude. I can clearly see the devs think that this "filler" class is just fine. That being said, my sub has been cancelled. I won't give my money to neck beard devs that talk to their customers like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreasus Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Bye we all will miss you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohnur Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 And I will miss all the trolliness from the basements of parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingfoot Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hey, We're perfectly aware that this difference exists. It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors. The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular. Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed. Georg edit: fixed a typo where "Consular" should have appeared! Regardless of the OP not knowing the mirrors, bad design is just bad. You have essentially designed it so certain classes are at a huge disadvantage while Inquisitors/Consulars regen at the same rate. The other classes regen at a snails pace when they bottom out. How this is balanced just doesn't add up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Regardless of the OP not knowing the mirrors, bad design is just bad. You have essentially designed it so certain classes are at a huge disadvantage while Inquisitors/Consulars regen at the same rate. The other classes regen at a snails pace when they bottom out. How this is balanced just doesn't add up... Both of those other classes have a near-full regen button, on a 2min cooldown. The problem with the OP is the vast simplification of his analysis. For a set amount of incoming damage, a Sage needs to be able to heal it and not go Out of Force over whatever the duration is, lets say 300s. During those 300s, or 5 minutes, a Commando or Scoundrel can go out of resources twice, and replenish immediately. The presence of Noble Sacrifice is irrelevant, as that is the Sage resource management tool, just as staying in max regen, the stacking crit for DS procs, using DS or HS, and SCC are management tools for the others. If you want to do this comparison, you have to take into account FAR more factors than the OP did. Which is why GZ is correct, and also why he should have ignored this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrlAltDelet Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm a Sroc healer (Mostly PvE Raiding) I just want to say.. Who the heck cares about DI... really. DI is my "oh s#(@" heal when the MT is hovering at 10% and i need a lucky crit to get him back to a manageable level otherwise I NEVER use it in my regular rotation. my raid healing rotation is resurgence -> innervate -> consumption (repeat) during the 9s cool down while i wait for innervate I throw out static barriers or throw at a revivification (purple circle) DI to me is last in my bag to be used. why such adherence to the rotation? because that's the only way I'm going to be able to have enough force to endure the fight. If a sorc healer breaks the rotation for too long you bottom out.. and there is no "Pop a cool-down to gain half your force bar back" ability for sorcs. The only way to restart the system is to spam consumption on yourself (draining a chunk of your health) so you can restart the cycle and get the non-punishment consumptions form innervate cirts. TLDNR: The fact is the OP has never healed as a sorc and tries to compare apples to oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navido Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm still astounded by the fact that this is the thread he chose to post on, no offense to the OP honestly I don't do the numbers thing, I just can't believe he wouldn't post of one of the discussion threads of which there are MANY in the Scoundrel, Op, and healing forums. I'm not even talking about an ongoing dialogue with him in the thread (As nice as that would be I've pretty much given up hope on that one) just a simple "Hey we are watching this thread, keep the ideas flowing we enjoy the community feedback" would have meant the WORLD to the small community of Scoundrel/Op's that honestly at this point are just looking for a bone that the Dev team even knows we are still here. I don't think I've ever seen a post like this in any other class thread and it really doesn't help the smallest population class grow for new players to see that kinda of Dev response to us. Anyways GZ I really hope you can make it to the healer forums and at least let us know you are reading, heck maybe even open a dialogue with some of us. Most of us just want a little communication between the Dev team and the playerbase that isn't random blogs and Q&A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 WOW! I play as sentinel, I say IAs are some powerful character, well it depends on the user on how he/she utilize the skills. Now I play as a sniper, at level 11, I joined pvp and I ranked as NO. 2, killed almost 35+ LOOOOOOLLLL :D Yep, bads will be bads, and will find their ways to the forum to complain as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The one thing about Mr. Zoeller's post that I find the most discouraging is that I get the impression that the developer's feel like they are in some kind of contest with the player base. It seems like they want to prove to us that they are right and this game is perfectly balanced and so won't even be open to a reasonable discussion on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The one thing about Mr. Zoeller's post that I find the most discouraging is that I get the impression that the developer's feel like they are in some kind of contest with the player base. It seems like they want to prove to us that they are right and this game is perfectly balanced and so won't even be open to a reasonable discussion on the topic. Reasonable discussion would be more likely if they replied to threads that had it, instead of trolling those that don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaltanus Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) reasonable discussion would be more likely if they replied to threads that had it, instead of trolling those that don't. qft!! Edited March 9, 2012 by zaltanus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableShadow Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The one thing about Mr. Zoeller's post that I find the most discouraging is that I get the impression that the developer's feel like they are in some kind of contest with the player base. It seems like they want to prove to us that they are right and this game is perfectly balanced and so won't even be open to a reasonable discussion on the topic. No emperor likes to be reminded he's actually naked. Then again, some of the class outcry has been as bad as the nerf outcry, so I can empathize (a teenie tiny bit) with what may be his fatigue on the subject. The whole thing has been like watching the regen nerf-coaster in CoX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thankyjack Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hey, We're perfectly aware that this difference exists. It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors. The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular. Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed. Georg edit: fixed a typo where "Consular" should have appeared! What....have....you....DONE? You never feed a Gremlin after midnight and you never, ever, ever, feed a troll an official response!!! Are you insane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 No emperor likes to be reminded he's actually naked. Then again, some of the class outcry has been as bad as the nerf outcry, so I can empathize (a teenie tiny bit) with what may be his fatigue on the subject. The whole thing has been like watching the regen nerf-coaster in CoX. If they had someone who replied to threads and said "Your concern has been noted and will be looked into," there would be far less outcry. When people think there is a problem, and get zero feedback, they assume they were not heard. So they speak louder, then they shout, then they scream, then they rage-quit. You don't have to admit that it is broken. You don't have to post what you are doing to fix it. You just have to tell the community that they have been heard. Then perhaps someone could maintain a sticky of "Heard complaints" that people could check before re-posting the same one over and over. And then...amazingly, we might have boards that had content besides people crying out for changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 What....have....you....DONE? You never feed a Gremlin after midnight and you never, ever, ever, feed a troll an official response!!! Are you insane? Nicely done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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