Bioware should be punished. There is no way they do not know this exists.

[TBurglar]

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Smuggler.

 

Such pro devs we have working on this game. Their attitude about smugglers/agents and the reason they're the least played makes me want to vomit. Hint: it's not because everyone wants to shoot lightning.

 

Try: horrible looking armor, energy starved classes that are useless after blowing their wad, sniper/gs being the only class that has to deal with shielding and evade chances, the worst set bonuses in the game, buggy cover system, buggy abilities, inferior skill sets, inferior sustained DPS, least mobility, least utility, subpar storyline (at least for smugglers), and I'm sure other smugglers/agents can keep the list going.

Edited March 8, 2012 by TBurglar

[Coldin]

40-60 does give you 4/sec back. 1-39= 5/s back; 40-59 = 4/sec back; 60-79= 3/sec back; 80-100= 2/sec back. (granted this is all from a Powertech's point of view, so an Operative would see 0-20 = 2/sec back, 21-40= 3/sec back, 41-60= 4/sec back, 61-100 = 5/sec back

 

Operative does not equal Powertech. They have slightly different energy return rates. I can go into game right now on my Smuggler, and actually see the numbers as they return. It is indeed 20-60 = 3 energy per second. If you don't believe me, then please create a smuggler or agent and play with the numbers yourself.

 

Also, while Pugnacity does return energy, it's actually at a rate of 3 energy / 3 seconds. I know that seems like splitting hairs, but it is essentially waiting two global cooldowns for that energy to come back.

 

The reason I say 50 is because when you're dealing with multiples of "10's and 25's", 50 is kind of that magic middle ground. It's very easy to push past 50 and go into the 70's mark without even seeing the 60's range. Once you hit that 70% depletion mark, you're in trouble, and that's where it becomes difficult to regain energy.

 

Ideally, you should be using your diagnostic scan (or whatever the very large crit %, free, small heal ability is) in between abilities for both the crits, and the energy regeneration you get from it. This goes for almost every class that has a free, spammable ability, sorcerer DPS aside as theirs is a melee ability that does nothing for them.

 

Most of the healing Scoundrels I've spoken with all agree that Diagnostic Scan is largely worthless. It only restores a small amount of energy when it crits, and the healing requires us to remain stationary to use. For a healer, it actually is better to simply manage energy and not dip below that point.

 

When I dip into healing, I have more issues with not having stacks of Upper Hand to use my instant free heal.

[Ploms]

hey,

 

we're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

 

It's because, shockingly, agents are not inquisitors.

 

The mirror class for the agent is the smuggler, the mirror class for the inquisitor is the smuggler.

 

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

 

Georg

 

ding dong bannu!

[lexiekaboom]

Honestly as much as everyone is beating up on the OP, this thread just shows how horrible it is going to contiune to be to play any class but a sorc, and how the DEV team only cares about that class, and will continue to favour it forever.

 

Why am I saying this? Georg Zoeller you said in your Q&A 3 weeks ago that sorc healing was out of line and would be rebalanced in 1.2. Now you take time out of your day to come over here and make fun of someone trying to point out HOW BROKEN IT IS because he got one detail wrong?

 

His point, about sorcs out healing the crap out of any other healer is valid. I know it's valid because YOU SAID IT WAS VALID.

 

The dev team is the first to stand up and say that even though everyone is playing one, even though they are first in every warzone, first in PVE, first to be invited to groups, first at EVERYTHING, sorcs are not OP. They have been ignoring post after post of people who don't play them saying they are OP, people who played other classes then switched to sorc saying they are OP, people who have played no other classes but sorc watching their friends level and saying they are OP.

 

And now, they ignore THERE OWN POSTS saying they are OP.

 

Play a sorc or quit. Message is load and clear.

[Bodhi_]

Healing is an artform, revolving around style as much as it does numbers.

 

What does this even mean?

 

It is a given that some people are good healers and some people are bad healers. This is irrelavent to the discussion, and any logical discussion assumes comparisons be made without involving player skill, or "artform and style" as you like to call it.

 

That said, everything being equal, everything is a numbers game. It is ALL about numbers when comparing an Operative and a Sorc. If the classes we were dicussing had more drastic differences, such as an Operative was HoT based and a Sorc was Direct Heal based, then there would be more to this discussion, because the different class might serve different roles, and would warrent disparities in healing throughput.

 

However I don't believe there is enough difference between the classes, currently, to justify addressing this in any comparison discussions. Both classes have two HoTs (one streaming and one instant), both classes have a longer casting, high healing spell, both classes have an AoE heal, both classes have a faster healing spell, both have some utility.

 

So, currently, in terms of role, usage, and need...I find the two classes identical. The only thing to do at this point is to play the numbers game, and see what class is better. I currently heal endgame with both classes, and not only do I find Sorc healing to have better throughput, it is also a class that is much, much easier to play.

 

I don't think there is an easy answer to fix how things currently are. You can't just say "buff Operatives across the board" and you can't say "nerf Sorc". I think energy/force regain mechanics needs to be looked at a little more, and some tweaking be made. There are some obvious places for improvement like Operative AoE of course, and Diagnotic Scan in PvP needs to be addressed somehow.

 

In any case, this wasn't a post to get into the details on how to make the two classes more "equal", but mainly to address that in reality the two classes are very similiar, and notions of "people on my server want one more the the other" don't help discussions. If two classes fill the same role, and are nearly identical in terms of usage, and one performs better then the other (with all other things being equal) then that is a balancing problem and it needs to be addressed, either by buffs/nerfs, or by redefining the usage by changing how the class plays.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Bodhi_

[RuQu]

Operative does not equal Powertech. They have slightly different energy return rates. I can go into game right now on my Smuggler, and actually see the numbers as they return. It is indeed 20-60 = 3 energy per second. If you don't believe me, then please create a smuggler or agent and play with the numbers yourself.

 

Also, while Pugnacity does return energy, it's actually at a rate of 3 energy / 3 seconds. I know that seems like splitting hairs, but it is essentially waiting two global cooldowns for that energy to come back.

 

 

Keep in mind that he is wrong about the regen windows for BHs. There is no 4 Heat/s zone. Its 0-39 gives 5, 40-79 gives 3, and 80-100 gives 2. So it is essentially inverted.

 

Their big heal and yours both cost 25% of resources. When combined in your main combo (AP/MP, HSc/RSc, UWM/EMP, or KI/SP), both combos cost 25%, because your UH/TA using ability is free, and our cooldown heal gives a buff that subtracts it price from the next MP or RSc.

 

Note, however, that while UWM and MP heal for exactly the same, AP heals for more than EMP and applies an Armor buff and a small 2s HoT. This makes our combo more powerful. To balance, you can spam your combo any time, we require a cooldown to do so. In effect, you are always in SCC mode, and, if you keep your HoT rolling, you have slightly higher EMP usage than AP (by my sims the increased usage doesn't lead to equivalent healing done though).

 

The Apples to Oranges to Pears comparisons are complicated, and many of the trade-offs are hard or impossible to put a number on. Sometimes you just have to say "what is that ability being instant worth? 5%, 10%? What about that armor buff?" You can, with extra effort, estimate the armor benefit, but it takes more work, and how do you put a number on the mobility of instant cast?

 

Which is all the more reason GZ should ignore overly simplistic and irrational threads, and come and tell us things like how much they think being instant is worth.

[Gnite]

Hey,

 

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

 

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

 

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Smuggler.

 

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

 

Georg

 

i dunno..seems pretty defensive for a dev that is supposed to be objective and create balance among the classes instead of just constantly defending their pet class..

 

every post i've seen from this guy has been: "these are not the droids you are looking for", the sorcerer is completely balanced compared to the other healers..

[Ojas]

Why are mods taking all of my posts, even about things unrelated to this, and claiming they are discussed here and locking them.

 

At least merg them over.

 

I guess I will copy my posts to this thread.

[Ojas]

This is an analysis of the skills and talents that influence energy/force pools, regen and ability cost.

 

 

Abilities that affect Energy or Force pool, regen or ability (not including skill tree bonuses).

Sorcerer;

Consumption - Instant Cast - No Cooldown : Consumes 15% of max health to restore 8% of max Force. Each time used, applies a debuff that reduces the Force regeneration rate by 25% for the next 10 seconds.

 

 

Operative;

Adrenaline Probe - Instant Cast - 2 minute Cooldown : Summons a droid that recovers 50 energy over 3 seconds.

Stim Boost - Instant Cast - 35 second Cooldown - Costs 1 Tactical Advantage : Executes your Tactical Advantage to recover 3 energy every 3 seconds for 45 seconds.

 

Talents to influence Energy or Force pool, regen, or ability cost and the cost of those talents, assuming the player is heal spec'd.

 

Sorcerer;

Corruption (Healer) Tree:

Resurgence (1 - Tier 3) --> Force Bending (2 - Tier 3) : Resurgence has 100% chance to grant Force Bending which

A. Reduces the force cost of Revivification by 30%.

B. Reduces the force cost of Dark Heal by 50%.

 

Innervate (1 - Tier 5) --> Force Surge (2 - Tier 5) : Innervate critical hits have a 100% chance to make the next Consumption activate without degenerating Force or consuming Health.

--------------- Innervate is a 3 second Channel heal on a 9 second cooldown that heals for 678 health then an additional 2034 health over 3 seconds. For a total heal of 2712. With a crit chance of 30% and a crit mult of 1.7, that heal averages to around 3281 points. Note that Force Surge can proc on either the initial heal, or one of the three hot ticks. At 30% crit chance, that means Innervate has a .3+.3+.3+.3 = 120% chance to activate Force Surge. So, essentially, guranteed no cost consumption. 8% of 600 Force = 48 Force. So, every 12 seconds, Sorcerers can get a free 48 Force.

 

Lightning (Damage) Tree:

Reserves (2 - Tier 1) : Increases your total Force by 100.

Electric Induction (3 - Tier 1) : Reduces the Force cost of Force attacks and Healing abilities by 9%.

Subversion (2 - Tier 2) : Lightning Strike has a 100% chance to increase your Force regeneration rate by 10% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.

 

 

Operative;

Medicine (Healer) Tree:

Precision Instruments (2 - Tier 1) : Decreases energy cost of Corrosive Dart, Debilitate and Sever Tendon by 4.

----------- Note those are all damage abilities. Why they are in the healer tree is beyond me. Moving on.

Endorphin Rush (2 - Tier 2) : Adrenaline Probe now immediately restores 16 additional energy.

Prognosis: Critical (2 - Tier 3) --> Patient Studies (2 - Tier 4) : Diagnostic Scan critical restore 2 energy.

----------- Diagnostic Scan is a 3 second channeled heal that heals for 155 health every second. So if this abilities crits, with 70% crit mult, it heals for 263 health. That is in full Champion/Battlemaster Gear. Note that, that is a worthless heal, and only useable when 4 talent points are spent. Assuming a base crit chance of 40% for an Operative, buffed to 40%+24% = 64% chance, Diagnostic Scan has a 64%+64%+64% = 192% chance per cast to proc Patient Studies which restores 2 energy. So, each cast of Diagnostic Scan will restore (on average) 1.92*2 = 3.84 energy.

 

Lethality (DPS) Tree:

Corrosive Grenade (1 - Tier 3) --> Combat Stims (2 - Tier 3) : Stim Boost immediately restores 10 energy when activated. Additionally reduces the cooldown of Stim Boost by 15 seconds.

---------- Note, that to get this, you have to give up the 31 point Operative heal (Recuperative Nanotech).

 

 

 

Let's compare Force Surge (Innervate) and Patient Studies (Diagnostic Scan).

Every 12 seconds, Innervate has a 120% chance to grant free cast Consumption which grants 48 Force.

That single cast of Innervate heals for ~ 3281 health over the duration.

Note, that this 3.3k heal is achieved from 3 seconds of channel. They have the additional 9 seconds from the cooldown to use on other abilities.

 

In the same amount of time, Diagnostic Scan can be cast 4 times (12s/3s per cast).

Every 12 seconds, 4 casts, grants 3.84 * 4 energy = 15.36 energy.

This ability with a 64% crit chance from the talents, heals for ~ 596 health over the three second cast for each cast. So after casting 4 times, it will heal for ~ 2386 health.

Note, that this 2.4k heal must be achieved from spending every moment of the 12 seconds casting this ability. Unlike sorcerers who can cast other abilities while their large heal is on cooldown.

 

So;

Every 12 seconds, from 3 Talent points, Sorcerers get 48 Force at no cost, get a 3.3k heal, can achieve this with 3 seconds of channeling.

Every 12 seconds, from 4 Talent points, Operatives get 15 Energy at no cost, get a 2.4k heal, and can ONLY achieve this with 12 seconds of channeling.

 

 

Let's look at the main heals for both classes (when spec'd for max cost reduction) that 48 Force/15 Energy accumulated every 12 seconds.

 

Sorcerer : Dark Infusion : Costs 50 Force.

Operative : Kolto Injection : Costs 25 Energy.

 

48 Force = 96% of the 50 Force Dark Infusion Costs. So, each 12 second free cast of Consumption cast gets a Sorcerer 96% closer to casting Dark Infusion.

15 Energy = 60% of the 25 Energy Kolto Injection Costs. So, each 12 second of constant channeling of Diagnostic Scan gets an Operative 60% closer to casting Kolto Injection.

 

 

 

Absolute comparisons between these 2 abilities talented to cost nothing. Sorcerer / Operative

Skill Points cost : 2/3 : SORCERER WINS BY 1.

Heal Amount from Procing ability : 3281 / 2386 : SORCERER WINS BY 895.

Time Spent Channeling the Procing Ability : 3s / 12s : SORCERER WINS BY 9s.

Amount of Force/Energy restored as percent cost of primary heal : 96%/60% : SORCERER WINS BY 36%.

 

MAKES NO SENSE.

[Ojas]

Here is a listing of the Operative PVP and PVE gear 2 and 4 piece bonuses.

 

Operative PVP

(2) Piece Increases the healing done by Recuperative Nanotech by 15%.

(4) Piece Increases max energy by 5.

 

Operative PVE

(2) Piece Reduces the energy cost of Recuperative Nanotech by 4

(4) Piece Increases the critical chance of Kolto Infusion and Kolto Pack by 15%.

 

 

All of those are worthless to us.

Recuperative Nanotech costs 30 energy and is a very weak heal, so good operatives do not take it. Waste of energy. Even with the gear.

+5 Max Energy : For comparison; our main heal (Kolto Injection) costs 25 energy. Worthless 4 piece set.

Another recuperative nanotech set bonus. An ability that good operatives do not bother with.

Kolto Infusion. A weak outdated heal that no operative healer uses. They use Surgical Probe instead as Kolto Infusion heals for only slightly more, but costs 20 energy and has a cast time.

[Amiable]

Hey,

 

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

 

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

 

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Smuggler.

 

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

 

Georg

 

Georg,

 

While, I appreciate your frustration with the player community, a lot of folks have been politely asking the devs to address the issues with ops/scoundrels and have received little if any feedback other than "working as intended." As outlined in the healing roles forum, currently a healing op literally brings nothing to the table over a healing sorc, and gives up a substantial amount of PvE and PvP utility. Stealth really isn't that useful for a healer, especially considering the punishing mechanics in place for utlilizing our long cool down vanish ability and the mechanics that keep us in combat pretty much the instant we throw a heal.

 

I think we just want to know if BW has a vision for the class or if this is just it and we need to learn to deal with it. I find the argument that we are the least played class because "everyone wants to wield a lightsaber" unconvincing. Han Solo is THE most iconic character in the star wars series (well, maybe after Darth Vader and Yoda). The populaiton gap exists because there is a perception (and reality) that we are subpar at our intended roles.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Amiable

[dmanlong]

What does this even mean?

 

 

However I don't believe there is enough difference between the classes, currently, to justify addressing this in any comparison discussions. Both classes have two HoTs (one streaming and one instant), both classes have a longer casting, high healing spell, both classes have an AoE heal, both classes have a faster healing spell, both have some utility.

 

 

 

 

What utility do Ops have? Outside of an exploit Battlerez and a Battlerez that is shared by a superior class, I see no utility.

[Coldin]

Keep in mind that he is wrong about the regen windows for BHs. There is no 4 Heat/s zone. Its 0-39 gives 5, 40-79 gives 3, and 80-100 gives 2. So it is essentially inverted.

 

Their big heal and yours both cost 25% of resources. When combined in your main combo (AP/MP, HSc/RSc, UWM/EMP, or KI/SP), both combos cost 25%, because your UH/TA using ability is free, and our cooldown heal gives a buff that subtracts it price from the next MP or RSc.

 

Note, however, that while UWM and MP heal for exactly the same, AP heals for more than EMP and applies an Armor buff and a small 2s HoT. This makes our combo more powerful. To balance, you can spam your combo any time, we require a cooldown to do so. In effect, you are always in SCC mode, and, if you keep your HoT rolling, you have slightly higher EMP usage than AP (by my sims the increased usage doesn't lead to equivalent healing done though).

 

The Apples to Oranges to Pears comparisons are complicated, and many of the trade-offs are hard or impossible to put a number on. Sometimes you just have to say "what is that ability being instant worth? 5%, 10%? What about that armor buff?" You can, with extra effort, estimate the armor benefit, but it takes more work, and how do you put a number on the mobility of instant cast?

 

Which is all the more reason GZ should ignore overly simplistic and irrational threads, and come and tell us things like how much they think being instant is worth.

 

Fair enough. But we can only spam Emergency Medpac as long as we have TA, and only infinitely if they're at <30% health.

 

I think our big healing issue is that we have no way to really buy us time. A HOT doesn't really do much for someone already low on health. A sage bubble however buys them that extra 2-4k health right now, giving them time to get off bigger, more substantial heals. Even Merc/Trooper heals can either make the next heals better, or make their target tougher. Operative/Scoundrel don't have anything like that.

[Tokosteef]

 

What I primarily disagree with, and why I am even posting in this thread at all, is the idea of GZ replying to you. Considering the weight of his word, he should hold himself to a higher standard than taking potshots at the easy kills. He should be ignoring the likes of you (as I intend to do), and engaging in discussion with those willing to actually discuss, clearing up any false assumptions we make, accepting feedback and pointing out differences in their design philosophy compared to the intent we assume.

 

 

Oh this, dear god this.

It's such a shame this gets drown out by all the nonsense.

George Zoeller, learn from this post, and stop frustrating those who are trying to help improve your game.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Tokosteef

[lexiekaboom]

Hey,

 

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

 

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

 

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Smuggler.

 

 

Georg

 

You all know this means Georg will be giving Inquisitors stealth and back stab in 1.2 right?

[Xenthum]

Nice to see that the developers spit on their paying customers even when they ADMIT THAT THEY'RE FACTUALLY CORRECT.

 

You stay Classy, EA. Still the worst customer service on the planet.

[Kyntari]

I can't wait to see how this yellow post is summarized in the next Dev Tracker summary!

[Dampiel]

I can't wait to see how this yellow post is summarized in the next Dev Tracker summary!

 

It wont be, he wont even read what people posted after him

[dmanlong]

I can't wait to see how this yellow post is summarized in the next Dev Tracker summary!

 

 

At least we know they are reading the class forums - That is a good start. The Healing forums have a much better threads than this.

[zaltanus]

Hey,

 

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

 

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

 

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular (lol).

 

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

 

Georg

 

Hey brah,

 

It's already been proven in countless threads that agents get the shaft when it comes to comparing sorc to agent (even merc to agent?). Additionally, this is the first time I've ever seen a dev answer -any- agent complaint about anything. As I play an operative healer, I still do fine in ops and flashpoints. That's not the issue. Like Animal Farm, the healers in this game do more "fine" than others, often by a wide margin. The people who are discussing the inherent issues with agent mechanics deserve a little more respect. Does the OP? That's up for discussion.

 

The fact that you responded to a pot shot thread rather than people who carefully maintain and update their agent threads with statistical evidence that heavily favors any other healer than the agent shows that you really don't take the agent community seriously and are perfectly willing to let our class fade into the background to please the majority.

 

I can understand your frustration, but this is the first time I've been appalled at a dev response- not because of your "witty" retort in this thread, but because after all of the devs ignoring perfectly legitimate complaints about our class mechanics for what seems like the beginning of launch, this is the thread you chose to respond to, acting like a child rather than addressing the agent community's complaints at large.

 

Pathetic.

Edited March 8, 2012 by zaltanus

[Coldin]

I can't wait to see how this yellow post is summarized in the next Dev Tracker summary!

 

GeorgZoeller explains that Operatives are in fact NOT Inquisitors. He also states that the mirror class of Inquisitors is...the (Smuggler) Consular!

 

*chuckle*

 

We are probably ragging on him too much for this, but we have some valid concerns that are being well addressed, and posts like this just make the community more frustrated.

[Darkrobes]

They are trying to make the game unbalanced to make the game easier for their most played class so that their most played class has a greater incentive to subscribe. This is criminal. Throwing us under the bus to appease their sorcerers/sages.

 

 

 

 

Kolto Injection (KI) costs 25 energy.

 

At 5 Energy regen per sec it takes 5 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI.

At 4 Energy regen per sec it takes 6.25 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI.

At 3 Energy regen per sec it takes 8.33 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI.

At 2.5 Energy regen per sec it takes 10 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI.

At 2 Energy regen per sec it takes 12.5 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI.

 

 

Dark Infusion (DI) costs 55 force. (Before the talents to decrease it's cost).

 

At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI.

At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI.

At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI.

At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI.

At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI.

 

 

 

Simple solution....learn to manage your energy better. Here's the main difference that I am seeing (My main is a 50 Corruption Sorc, healing HM/NMM Ops). IA's are hardly ever constant casting, like a Sorc or BH. When I am healing on my sorc, the only time I am not using a heal or shield on someone is when I am using free Consumptions for force regen. IA's are great healers, my healing buddy is one. With your HoTs and instant-cast heals, you have a HUGE advantage over sorcs and mercs, as the majority of our heals are casted/channeled. Being able to cast your HoT on as many people as you want with no CD is amazing as well. Sorcs get one, with a 6 sec CD. It's just the difference in the play style of each healer. I love it! I hate WoW for the fact that they have made every class/role archtype able to fill in a gap, i.e. Pallies can AoE heal now. Having differences between the classes is what makes each one special, and therefore each one has its own appeal.

[RuQu]

Fair enough. But we can only spam Emergency Medpac as long as we have TA, and only infinitely if they're at <30% health.

 

I think our big healing issue is that we have no way to really buy us time. A HOT doesn't really do much for someone already low on health. A sage bubble however buys them that extra 2-4k health right now, giving them time to get off bigger, more substantial heals. Even Merc/Trooper heals can either make the next heals better, or make their target tougher. Operative/Scoundrel don't have anything like that.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, simply pointing out the difficulties in making any such comparison. While AP/MP costs the same as UWM/EMP, and UWM heals for the same as MP, the comparison comes down to AP vs EMP.

 

You can only cast EMP when you have a UH stack, which you get from UWM or a 30% Proc with an ICD. We can only cast AP every 9s, 7.5s with 4pc, or spam it during SCC, which has, at most 40% uptime (46% with 2pc).

 

Clearly there was some trade-off for the increased frequency of use of EMP.

 

How do they compare?

 

With my current generation of simulators, I see very similar sustained HPS (note that I am moving away from using HPS as a healing metric) with the same gear stats, and the following cast counts over 300s:

 

UWM casts: 65

EMP casts: 59

SRMP casts: 20

DS casts: 25

 

vs

 

MP casts: 66

AP casts: 54

BI casts: 13

HS casts: 65

 

So we see the two classes use their 25% heal almost exactly the same amount. You use EMP only slightly more, which would be a major problem if we wanted to be simplistic and only compare coefficients (EMP is only 1.38, far below the 2.46 of AP, including the HoT) and the armor buff.

 

If we expand and look at the full rotation, though, we see that they actually come out pretty close in HPS: 1479 Scoundrel vs 1474 Commando).

 

Sadly, I have no simulations for Sages as I don't know enough about their rotations to do it proper justice.

 

That said, I should mention again that I'm moving away from HPS as I don't think its an ideal metric and, while the HPS may come out similar, that says nothing about utility, emergency abilities, flexibility, or fun.

[Zhothon]

Hey brah,

 

It's already been proven in countless threads that agents get the shaft when it comes to comparing sorc to agent (even merc to agent?). Additionally, this is the first time I've ever seen a dev answer -any- agent complaint about anything. As I play an operative healer, I still do fine in ops and flashpoints. That's not the issue. Like Animal Farm, the healers in this game do more "fine" than others, often by a wide margin. The people who are discussing the inherent issues with agent mechanics deserve a little more respect. Does the OP? That's up for discussion.

 

The fact that you responded to a pot shot thread rather than people who carefully maintain and update their agent threads with statistical evidence that heavily favors any other healer than the agent shows that you really don't take the agent community seriously and are perfectly willing to let our class fade into the background to please the majority.

 

I can understand your frustration, but this is the first time I've been appalled at a dev response- not because of your "witty" retort in this thread, but because after all of the devs ignoring perfectly legitimate complaints about our class mechanics for what seems like the beginning of launch, this is the thread you chose to respond to, acting like a child rather than addressing the agent community's complaints at large.

 

Pathetic.

 

QFT

 

I have to agree with this.

[Felioats]

Hey,

 

We're perfectly aware that this difference exists.

 

It's because, shockingly, Agents are not Inquisitors.

 

The mirror class for the Agent is the Smuggler, the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Smuggler.

 

Just in case it wasn't clear: We have different classes in the game - that means they actually have different abilities, energy systems, costs, etc. In short: It's working as designed.

 

Georg

 

I think you mean the mirror class for the Inquisitor is the Consular.