I think I know why so many are angry about the Valor and Gear changes

[EasternWind]

They're not really angry that new players will be able to gear up quickly once they hit 50, it's that there's very little extra rewards for the cream of the crop.

 

I do agree that most of the "standard" PvP gear should be accessible to fresh 50's easily so they can compete in Warzones, but I also believe there should be a pinnacle set of gear that the best of the best are able to achieve. I'm not talking about "hard to get" like BM gear was (it's more of a time sink), but top gear for players that reach the top marks in Valor and ranked Warzones, making it so that only those that both put in the time and are truly good players can achieve it. It would look the coolest and wouldn't have huge stat increases over the 2nd best gear (for the sake of the QQ-ers) but the difference would be noticeable.

 

What say you? I think this would give people a goal to grind for, something that they were kind of missing in the earlier PvP content.

 

EDIT: To clarify, the gear wouldn't have insanely increased stats, the stats should be a minor upgrade from the 2nd gear. What it should be is 10x cooler looking and very distinctive to service the ego of those who worked to be the best.

 

Instead of stat increases like you propose I'd rather they add either better set bonuses or more bonuses to the top line gear, that way the only difference is pretty much slightly reduced/increased durations and or ranges of abilities in addition to superior looks ( and I mean WAY better looks than the generic attainable gear).

[Emencie]

 

All this garbage about equal footing... So, you don't play half the time as me, and want the same gear as me? What?

 

I suppose "To each his own." is the message here.

 

I just cant get behind being better because I have super gear. I want to beat someone because I beat them. Not because I have a machine gun and they have a stick.

 

But at the same time. I refuse to be the one with the stick when I come up against the machine gunners

 

So I grind out my PvP gear. and hope GW2 will somehow satisfy my MMO PvP desires.

[GRINnBARRETT]

Well. I'll take this as an apology & lack of roll backs due to exploitation. Since they didn't roll back any of the valor exploiters and actually stated they won't ban members of the trade brigade, I think it's only fair that they even the gear playing field.

[Cheeseblaster]

So you have no life and can play non-stop every day? Oh sorry...

 

On point, I think demanding thing easy is stupid too. But just because you play more doesn't mean you should have a stat advantage in pvp.

 

You want to beat me in pvp, do it with skill not gear.

 

You want some progression to show how awesome you are at pvp, fine have all the progression BW or any other developer wants to make... But no stats.

 

Stat tiers are for pve, not pvp.

 

 

OK, if everything needs to be equal then make gear/stat/weapon advantages obsolete in PVP. Put every in the same gear, same weapons, same stats, same HP. Lvl 50 and up the only thing that matters is skill and were you put your skill points. Then you would have a true test of skill on an equal footing.

 

 

 

It would also take care of any gear-envy by lower levels.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Cheeseblaster

[Bovinity]

Your an idiot. The analogy would be, if fighter A works out for an entire training camp the fighter b sits on his butt and watches cartoons, why should the field be even for the fighter that didn't do any work?

 

THATS the analogy you lazy sob's.

 

Um, no. What we want is to be Fighter A and get better at hand-to-hand combat so that we can beat Fighter B.

 

What YOU want is to be Fighter A and go get a knife so you can beat Fighter B.

 

See the difference in approaches here?

[MartyrLXXVII]

OK, if everything needs to be equal then make gear/stat/weapon advantages obsolete in PVP. Put every in the same gear, same weapons, same stats, same HP. Lvl 50 and up the only thing that matters is skill and were you put your skill points. Then you would have a true test of skill on an equal footing.

 

 

 

It would also take care of any gear-envy by lower levels.

 

Fair but a little clinical, you still need class and spec variation for strategy. Other wise that skill you propose it just best twitch.

 

It's just adding more and more stats.is an endless broken cycle.

[jitsuo]

So you have no life and can play non-stop every day? Oh sorry...

 

On point, I think demanding thing easy is stupid too. But just because you play more doesn't mean you should have a stat advantage in pvp.

 

You want to beat me in pvp, do it with skill not gear.

 

You want some progression to show how awesome you are at pvp, fine have all the progression BW or any other developer wants to make... But no stats.

 

Stat tiers are for pve, not pvp.

 

Yes, working for gear=no life, sound logic there.

 

Why are gear tiers viable in PvE and not PvP? By your logic, players with better skill should be able to jump right into high level raids with no gear progression. Nothing should be earned except aesthetic changes.

[gunslinger]

I agree with the cosmetic option for the best of the best pvpers. You consistently rock pvp? Sure, you have access to this super cool, i'm so jealous at how awesome you look, gear. Should those select players have access to better STATTED gear than the top pvp gear? Absolutely not.

 

I have no problem with the concept of select rewards for select players who reach a certain level. But at some point, the stat race needs to stop and it actually come down to skill. But I understand that the outgear, group would always need their statistical advantage, since they can't outplay.

 

And to all of you "I earned my gear by putting in the time." Really? The game has been out 3 months. You sure put in a lot of time...

 

And to all of you "I can't earn my gear b/c they have better gear than me so I can't win." They got there gear in like a month. Suck it up and play.

[Nicain]

So you have no life and can play non-stop every day? Oh sorry...

 

On point, I think demanding thing easy is stupid too. But just because you play more doesn't mean you should have a stat advantage in pvp.

 

You want to beat me in pvp, do it with skill not gear.

 

You want some progression to show how awesome you are at pvp, fine have all the progression BW or any other developer wants to make... But no stats.

 

Stat tiers are for pve, not pvp.

 

 

So because someone plays more, they shouldn't be able to have access to items which someone who plays less won't be able to get? Is that your point? Just making sure.

[onefoursteve]

So many qqing carebears, so little time to laugh at them all.

 

^ This

[evoleye]

Yeah, all you baddie pvpers need your gearz in order to pwn. Use your skill instead of your gear crutch.

[MartyrLXXVII]

So because someone plays more, they shouldn't be able to have access to items which someone who plays less won't be able to get? Is that your point? Just making sure.

 

Nope... People that play more can have lots of cool things if they earn it.

 

I'm just against more stats in pvp just for playing more, or for any reason. No stat tiers in pvp, you can have all the cosmetic and aesthetic tiers the devs want to make to show you are the best of the best... but not stats.

[tamgros]

Yeah, all you baddie pvpers need your gearz in order to pwn. Use your skill instead of your gear crutch.

 

I wouldn't say it this harshly, but rated warzones are coming out, you want people to have equal gear opportunities so the rating actually means something beyond how much you farmed.

 

Making BM easier means that rating = skill lvl. Maybe these people are so afraid of what their rating will look like when gear level is equal.

[khaoimon]

Imo the only reason for gear in pvp is the choice to lean toward a specific stat or take a set bonus to be unique and develop play style.

 

Outside of that, if you really care about a true test of skill, there is no reason for anyone to have better or worse stats. I want to outplay you, not out crit you.

 

If anything that would mean the cream of the crop would have far more bragging rights because they are obviously better when they end up ranked higher, and have better rewards (rewards, not stats).

 

Before this nerf it really just meant you started your grind earlier. But out of the thousands that care about this there are only a handful of them. And really, the cream may be better than you, but have gotten their gear later for whatever reason (life, other games, etc). The shinies don't prove that you are the best, just that you invested time. Some people did get it in a faster amount of time because they ARE good. But having the gear doesn't prove that in any way.

 

We can argue that getting gear should be hardcore and should prove you are the best, but the mmo demographic has proven that rewarding the top .5% (not most of you reading!) doesn't make as much money.

 

So, imo, screw the gear chasing, make it so many people can be equal, and provide meaningful rewards for proving you are the best when equal.

 

Grinding super fast and running a full bm team early and facerolling everyone doesn't show skill. Winning 90% of your games while on equal footing, shows incredible skill.

[Bovinity]

Im not confusing anything, and you don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

 

When two people train in real life to fight, if SKILL is equal, the equalizer is how STRONG or how much TRAINING they do on top of their SKILL Training.

 

How does that compare to gear in any way? I can practice and get better, faster, make better decisions, multi-task better, have stronger teamwork and communication skills in PvP. Just like how a fighter could train to get better at the things that help him achieve victory.

 

Somehow you want there to be some external element that helps one person defeat the other, something that has nothing to do with the actual skills of the fighters or what training they've focused on.

 

If anything, the reality is the exact opposite of your analogy. You want it to not matter if someone works to practice at improving their actual skills, decision making, strategy, teamwork, speed, etc. You want items to matter, external things that have nothing to do with what Fighter A or Fighter B worked on.

 

Thats how it works in the REAL world. In an MMO your SKILL is how you play the game, and GEAR is the strength training that goes along with it, so two players who are EQUAL in skill, will then default to their GEAR for the tie breaker.

 

In the real world? That doesn't even make sense.

 

Im very sorry you don't have the time to get Battlemaster gear, I really am, but gear is a part of any MMO. PVP and PVE gear a like. Sorry you don't understand how pvp is suppose to work, you want to play a game called Modern Warfare, where everyone has access to the same everything at load time.

 

Most of us DO have that gear. We just see it as a stupid system.

 

This isn't that game, nor is it suppose to be. So I'm real sorry you suck, again, but don't penalize other players who want that aspect of the game untouched.

 

Wait, those of us that want PvP based on skill....are the ones that suck? How does THAT jive?

[MartyrLXXVII]

Imo the only reason for gear in pvp is the choice to lean toward a specific stat or take a set bonus to be unique and develop play style.

 

Outside of that, if you really care about a true test of skill, there is no reason for anyone to have better or worse stats. I want to outplay you, not out crit you.

 

If anything that would mean the cream of the crop would have far more bragging rights because they are obviously better when they end up ranked higher, and have better rewards (rewards, not stats).

 

Before this nerf it really just meant you started your grind earlier. But out of the thousands that care about this there are only a handful of them. And really, the cream may be better than you, but have gotten their gear later for whatever reason (life, other games, etc). The shinies don't prove that you are the best, just that you invested time. Some people did get it in a faster amount of time because they ARE good. But having the gear doesn't prove that in any way.

 

We can argue that getting gear should be hardcore and should prove you are the best, but the mmo demographic has proven that rewarding the top .5% (not most of you reading!) doesn't make as much money.

 

So, imo, screw the gear chasing, make it so many people can be equal, and provide meaningful rewards for proving you are the best when equal.

 

Grinding super fast and running a full bm team early and facerolling everyone doesn't show skill. Winning 90% of your games while on equal footing, shows incredible skill.

 

Agreed.

[Cheeseblaster]

Like I said earlier. You want equal, get rid of armor/gear/weapon differences altogether.

 

But i am hearing a lot of "it's not fair they put more time into it" This isn't merely guys who put in the time to get better gear not wanting to lose it. It's about people who haven't got it being jealous of the advantge it brings.

 

Propose getting rid of it all and you have my attention. Otherwise I just see jealousy.

 

Level/Gear/Weapon/Damage differences? Get rid of them all. Everyone is same level, same HP, same stats, same damage potential. The only difference being where you put your skill points. Heck put everyone in sumo outfits

 

Here are 2 matching weapons now go at it.

 

Anything other than that and I don't buy the whole "better gear isn't fair" argument...

[Zhaze]

Top performers in life get the goodies.

 

Newbies and low performers get less and have to work their way up the ladder.

 

Not rewarding top performers gives very little incentive to grind to the top and most of the top will just cancel subscriptions due to lack of carrot or challenge. This is not a first person shooter, MMO's are very gear dependent and should stay that way.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Valkuu
Inappropriate content

[Nicain]

How does that compare to gear in any way? I can practice and get better, faster, make better decisions, multi-task better, have stronger teamwork and communication skills in PvP. Just like how a fighter could train to get better at the things that help him achieve victory.

 

Somehow you want there to be some external element that helps one person defeat the other, something that has nothing to do with the actual skills of the fighters or what training they've focused on.

 

If anything, the reality is the exact opposite of your analogy. You want it to not matter if someone works to practice at improving their actual skills, decision making, strategy, teamwork, speed, etc. You want items to matter, external things that have nothing to do with what Fighter A or Fighter B worked on.

 

 

 

In the real world? That doesn't even make sense.

 

 

 

Most of us DO have that gear. We just see it as a stupid system.

 

 

 

Wait, those of us that want PvP based on skill....are the ones that suck? How does THAT jive?

 

Its an analog, if you don't understand it then I'm wasting my time talking to you. I'd wager 90% of the people who read that understand it. Your issue is that you're so fixed in your position you don't understand logic that refutes it.

 

It's very simple.

[Devildawwg]

They're not really angry that new players will be able to gear up quickly once they hit 50, it's that there's very little extra rewards for the cream of the crop.

 

I do agree that most of the "standard" PvP gear should be accessible to fresh 50's easily so they can compete in Warzones, but I also believe there should be a pinnacle set of gear that the best of the best are able to achieve. I'm not talking about "hard to get" like BM gear was (it's more of a time sink), but top gear for players that reach the top marks in Valor and ranked Warzones, making it so that only those that both put in the time and are truly good players can achieve it. It would look the coolest and wouldn't have huge stat increases over the 2nd best gear (for the sake of the QQ-ers) but the difference would be noticeable.

 

What say you? I think this would give people a goal to grind for, something that they were kind of missing in the earlier PvP content.

 

EDIT: To clarify, the gear wouldn't have insanely increased stats, the stats should be a minor upgrade from the 2nd gear. What it should be is 10x cooler looking and very distinctive to service the ego of those who worked to be the best.

 

Completely agree, Just like the classes can be distinguished by the weapons they use, such as a marauder uses two light sabers. The same should be done for gear like high end PvP gear. Hopefully this will be implimented in 1.2 with the ranked WZ's.

[Blotter]

It's because the MMO model is broken. Better gear for more time spent (not skill) = facemelting power differential. They then claim that all that facemelting shows they have skill. For them, it's a matter of confirmation bias assuring them that they actuallyk have the top-end skill they tell themselves they have. For the rest of us, we just roll our eyes and look at the unfair gear advantage that having 15 hours per day to play "earns" these tools. So when the developers do something to even the playing field, what happens? QQ rage festival from the kids who were enjoying their gear advantage which btw did I mention had nothing to do with skill.

 

And let's not forget how many of them benefitted from exploiting Ilum quirks or killtrading for valor or the fact that they could run around slapping the crap out of lowbies before a 50-bracket was introduced. Ignore them. The LAST thing they want is their alleged skill tested, and it shows.

[Talizzar]

Epeen FTW! This is all you need to know.

[Blotter]

Top performers in life get the goodies.

 

Newbies and low performers get less and have to work their way up the ladder.

 

Not rewarding top performers gives very little incentive to grind to the top and most of the top will just cancel subscriptions due to lack of carrot or challenge. This is not a first person shooter, MMO's are very gear dependent and should stay that way.

 

You got the goodies and you got the gear. What you're really saying is "the real goody that we want is to be able to facemelt people who haven't gotten the gear yet. Making us play on equal footing and prove we have skill gives us a sad."

Edited March 7, 2012 by Valkuu
Reply to edited post

[Blotter]

Like I said earlier. You want equal, get rid of armor/gear/weapon differences altogether.

 

But i am hearing a lot of "it's not fair they put more time into it" This isn't merely guys who put in the time to get better gear not wanting to lose it. It's about people who haven't got it being jealous of the advantge it brings.

 

Propose getting rid of it all and you have my attention. Otherwise I just see jealousy.

 

Level/Gear/Weapon/Damage differences? Get rid of them all. Everyone is same level, same HP, same stats, same damage potential. The only difference being where you put your skill points. Heck put everyone in sumo outfits

 

Here are 2 matching weapons now go at it.

 

Anything other than that and I don't buy the whole "better gear isn't fair" argument...

 

I hereby propose getting rid of it all. Make the goodies all superficial and aesthetic. There, happy? I have no problem with stil wanting to compete on a level playing field. What's your problem with it?

[NessusFett]

DOH

 

half the issues yall are anticipating will also be run away with the addition of rated warzones as well.

 

The premades with battlemaster will be rolling in the top level.

 

The naked nubs will be in the bottom.

 

They will never see each other again.