testszag Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 ......I knew the complainers would get their way over lore. Sure lore supports any color...... what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapWolf Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 KOTOR 1 : most of the crystals were restricted. KOTOR 2 : much more customization, but again, some were restricted. So. Why are the restrictions removed? Does alignment serve a purpose or not? Bioware, we'd like some elaboration on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 KOTOR 1 : most of the crystals were restricted. KOTOR 2 : much more customization, but again, some were restricted. So. Why are the restrictions removed? Does alignment serve a purpose or not? Bioware, we'd like some elaboration on this. For millennia, the Jedi Order lit lightsabers in every color and hue imaginable. However, following the Battle of Ruusan, the hues of most available crystals had been limited to either blue or green. Lightsaber color crystals could also be compressed, resulting in a pulsating blade, or they could be unstable, resulting in a core which swirled and sparkled. Lightsaber crystals of different hues could also be used in the same lightsaber to make a new blade color; for example, Galen Marek used Rahm Kota's green crystal along with his father's blue crystal to create an aqua blade. The following is a list of all known blade colors. The Ruusan campaign was the last campaign of the New Sith Wars. The campaign also is referred to simply as the Battle of Ruusan, although that is also used to describe the seventh battle. They consisted of seven battles on the planet Ruusan that were stretched over a two year span from 1,002 BBY to 1,000 BBY. Sources http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ruusan_campaign http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal TL:DR until 1000 bby the lightsaber choices were not restricted due to the fact that there were a variety of crystals avaliable, after the RUSSAN CAMPAIN however alot of crystal deposits were destroyed and lightsaber crystals became limited. that battled was 1000 bby. we are still thousands of years from that.. ergo. lightsaber crystals by cannon lore do not need to be limited. shall i post a link to all of the colours we SHOULD potentially have in game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 So like remember when Anakin killed all the jedi with his blue lightsaber? Game. Blouses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straegen Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 They removed the restriction, there is no real "historical" reason why the restrictions should exist and it seems the only decent argument for the restrictions are for game mechanic reasons (grind loot, prestige, etc). I think this poor horse has been beaten enough but that is just my opinion... continue flogging if you feel it necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerplode Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) My only problem is I'm going to see everybody and their mother with a red sabre on Republic. And everybody but me will have red sabres in Warzones. Just not cool Edited March 2, 2012 by Kerplode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 KOTOR 1 : most of the crystals were restricted. KOTOR 2 : much more customization, but again, some were restricted. So. Why are the restrictions removed? Does alignment serve a purpose or not? Bioware, we'd like some elaboration on this. Because the fact that most sith used red lightsabers does not justify a claim that all sith are required to use red lightsabers. At its very core this whole argument is stupid because its all over lightsaber colors. Now if they start putting it neon colors and rainbow effects we should get pissed. You are roleplaying YOUR character. Not a character from the movies who is pre defined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel_of_Cain Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan. Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this. Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with. *** HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR. *** Thanks, Exar. Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions. As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game. -------------------------------- Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars. *I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when... ... nothing happens?* Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh! Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess? Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever. Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this. [Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues. *The clones snicker.* [sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame? [Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on. *More clone laughter.* [sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal. *Anakin leaves in a huff.* Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK! Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith. Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore. Love. All. Of. It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 My only problem is I'm going to see everybody and their mother with a red sabre on Republic. And everybody but me will have red sabres in Warzones. Just not cool FWIW it is already like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyPrawn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 From an interview in 2007 with George Lucas: Hey Mr. Lucas, I am a big fan of Star Wars. I wanted to ask if the color of a light-saber blade means something? What does Mace Windu's purple-bladed light saber mean? George Lucas: The color of light-saber blades has no particular meaning. The problem we faced when working on the old films was the lack of special-effects proficiency. We didn't have the technical means to create light-saber blades of infinite color varieties. Also we only see three Force users with light sabers in the old films so there was no reason to have more than the green, blue and red light-saber blades. When I started work on the prequel trilogy, we obviously had the ability to create any color of light-saber blade. However, to retain continuity between the trilogies, I thought it best not to expand the range of colors for light-saber blades. The only additional color is purple because Sam wanted a purple-bladed light saber because it's his favorite color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Personally I think all colors should be available to both sides, except red which should be Empire only. Why should red be Imp only? You don't think the Pubs can gather red crystals also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 From an interview in 2007 with George Lucas: Im sorry but i lolled so hard. "Hey George I know this is a serious film and all, but I like purple and I'm Samuel L Jackson, so.... Lore can ****" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We are talking about color people....color... Is anyone going to slam their hands down and log out of the game because your "immersion " is hurt if you see a Sith with a blue lightsabre or a Jedi with a red one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areto Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Why should red be Imp only? You don't think the Pubs can gather red crystals also? There's two ways to look at this kind of question my friend. You can either make a judgement based on the lore, an in-universe position if you will, or you can make a judgment based on style,is this 'starwarsy' enough? is it consistent with the films and other media? in a perfect world a product can have both, but some things are imperfect. So, lore-wise it's pretty well established everyone can have whatever light-saber they want. But style-wise sith have red, jedi have blue/green. The two positions are of different orders and so one can't trump the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel_of_Cain Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I will be THAT guy using 1 Red and 1 Blue. 1 Red lightsaber+1 Blue lightsaber=PURPLE RAIN!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffycitty Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan. Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this. Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with. *** HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR. *** Thanks, Exar. Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions. As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game. -------------------------------- Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars. *I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when... ... nothing happens?* Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh! Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess? Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever. Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this. [Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues. *The clones snicker.* [sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame? [Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on. *More clone laughter.* [sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal. *Anakin leaves in a huff.* Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK! Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith. Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore. But he wasn't dark 5 yet... Maybe he had some light points still =P. There is no faction restriction now my sith marauder has 1 blue 1 red saber so whats the deal what are people mad about. that they cant kill random npc's in dialog choices with a blue saber? I think this complaint is mostly aimed at the purple pvp sabers that pubs cant get. now they can praise jebus.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 There's two ways to look at this kind of question my friend. You can either make a judgement based on the lore, an in-universe position if you will, or you can make a judgment based on style,is this 'starwarsy' enough? is it consistent with the films and other media? in a perfect world a product can have both, but some things are imperfect. So, lore-wise it's pretty well established everyone can have whatever light-saber they want. But style-wise sith have red, jedi have blue/green. The two positions are of different orders and so one can't trump the other. I agree, but from the 'style' perspective: white, orange, blue, black, yellow, etc would have to be removed because it is not represented in the movies. I prefer that players can choose the color of their sabers. It's the only real customization a saber can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I barely post but since most people who post are here to complain about things, I'll do the same. My current state right now I am playing a Star Wars game and one thing that was iconic to the franchise is definitely the color of crystals tied to the alignment of its user. Whether it is actually a restriction in the lore of Star Wars or not, doesn't matter. What matters is that it is how it is, and all haters have now managed to make Bioware change it. Couldn't you just go along with it ? It's been like this for YEARS in Star Wars and just because some kids don't like it "oh noes y me no haz red lightsaber???", Bioware is changing something iconic to the serie. Now, what is done is done and I am not going to go on a crusade like some of you did to change it back. Bioware, you were doing a great job and are still doing the great job. I will likely continue to play this game. However, please don't cave in to whatever stupid requests your community has. You are the developer, with experience in studying, designing and developing games. I trust your judgment and the community should as well. No it was a stupid idea that DOESNT coincide with lore (or common sense for that matter) and only served to inconvenience and frustrate others who might want a certain look or found a certain drop they cant use because of an asinine restriction put in the game because SOME players ... *glare* ... decided to piss and moan about it trying to make Bioware force all players to adhere to their play style. The only argument for the restriction is the cinematography and application of color theory from GL and his team, which is a VERY thin argument and one which even GL didnt adhere to 100% of the time in the movies. Bioware isnt "caving" to anyone. If anything theyre reverting a previous decision to "cave in" to another set of cry babies. Theyre realizing that placing too many customization restrictions on an MMO is NOT a god design decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) I argue about this all the time! If you are a Sith or Dark you should use only red period. Sith and Dardsiders should not have any other options. Red is the "absolute" only color they should get. It drives me crazy. I know I know, Vader used a blue one as he fought Obiwan, he just used it out of the need at the time but every Sith and Dark Lord always use red. Edited March 2, 2012 by Derfmiolleh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyPrawn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Im sorry but i lolled so hard. "Hey George I know this is a serious film and all, but I like purple and I'm Samuel L Jackson, so.... Lore can ****" Except that George acknowledged that lore had nothing to do with light saber color? That's why it didn't matter that SLJ got to pick his own color. If lore was a HUGE reason for color selection, I'm sure Lucas would have said no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damolawler Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I do not like this change. It just feels wrong. It's becoming less like star-wars and more like some generic fantasy mmo. I worry that this just sets a bad precedent. What happens when all the entitlement monkeys start demanding force-lightning for jedi, rainbow lightsabers, and unicorns and wyverns as mounts? Are Bioware going to cave in? Where's it going to end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Color restriction was a bad idea from a lore perspective and a practical perspective. From a Lore/Canon perspective, several people pointed out that Lucas already said that color restriction is largely meaningless. You see this throughout the Star Wars universe. Sure, tradition dictates that most Sith rock red and most Jedi rock blue/green, but this is neither a hard and fast rule nor was it true throughout history. References - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ruusan_campaign http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystals From a practical perspective, having artificial limits in game were foolish simply because if you are a force wielder, once you get your saber at or around 10 you are going to be using that weapon (not that literal item, but a lightsaber) from the time the game starts until you quit playing. We're talking years on end using the same thing. Everyone SHOULD be able to change it around as they see fit if only to help break the monotony. All they need to do now is separate stats from crystals completely and make them color only, OR add an additional crystal slot that is color only. Taking a stat hit because you hate yellow and want to rock blue isn't fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 But he wasn't dark 5 yet. Oh, I disagree. Ep II- "I killed them." +100 DS "And not just the men," +100 DS "but the women" +500 DS "and the children." +1000 DS "They're all dead!" "We could keep it a secret." +100 DS Secret marriage! +150 DS Ep III - Dooku = Dead +50 DS "Is it possible to learn this power?" +100 DS Mace Windu = Dead 200 DS "I pledge myself to your teachings." +1250 DS You've unlocked the title "Darth Vader!" Younglings = Dead +1250 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Jedi = +100 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS Dead Separatist = +10 DS I think you get the point. By the time he dueled Obi-Wan, if we're using the game mechanics (assuming special dark side allotments for changing factions (which we can't do) and slaughtering innocent children (also can't do,)) Anakin was ABSOLUTELY Dark V. And he used a blue lightsaber. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 EU state Sith can use any crystal colour end of story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areto Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Oh, I disagree. /thread He didn't change factions, the jedi did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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