No more color restrictions on crystals ?! Really ?

[Nichos_Ketra]

Within the EU, Sith apparently can artifically create their crystals rather then collecting them from Ilum, etc. Those that are artifically produced are a red colour. Other than that, there are no real restrictions.

 

Even Lucas once proclaimed Green and Blue were the only colours for Jedi until Samuel L Jackson asked for a purple saber. But then even Lucas will break from his own tradition whenever it suits him.

 

Actually, Luke Skywalker used a synth crystal. The lightsaber that he made after losing his father's lightsaber (and his hand) contained a green synth crystal that he grew himself using a kit that he found in Obi-Wan's house on Tatooine.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Nichos_Ketra

[Newsinz]

Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan.

 

Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this.

 

Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with.

 

***

 

HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR.

 

***

 

Thanks, Exar.

 

Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions.

 

As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game.

 

--------------------------------

 

Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars.

 

*I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when...

 

... nothing happens?*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh!

 

Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess?

 

Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever.

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this.

 

[Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues.

 

*The clones snicker.*

 

[sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame?

 

[Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on.

 

*More clone laughter.*

 

[sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal.

 

*Anakin leaves in a huff.*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK!

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith.

 

Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore.

 

This post was Epic and totally accurate lol.

[Dan_McMan]

I'm thrilled the restrictions are being lifted.

 

It means I can plat a lightside blaster user and fire red blaster bolts, like almsot every blaster in the movies, video games, comics, and novels.

 

It means I can play a lightside Sith and not broadcast to other Sith I'm a traitor.

 

These are things that makes sense in the game, and there needs to be a way of making these things happen. Maybe removing the restrictions entirely wasn't the right response, but it is a good one too me.

[Tevious]

Instead of restrictions, i think they should have incentives of sorts to motivate dark side players to use traditionally dark side colours (red and purple?) and light side use light side colours (blue and green?).

 

something akin to doubleing all DS/LS gains (DS for red/purple and LS for green/blue).

or some other (better) idea that BW could come up with.

 

 

But letting it flow freely doesnt make much sense to me because theres suddenly going to be tons of sith with blue and green sabers and tons of jedi with red sabers... because its "cool".

 

and no matter how hard you look, youre not going to find any lore evidence for that kind of behaviour (yes, there were sith with blue sabers and jedi with red, but they were RARE, not the norm)

 

I was about to suggest the same thing. Remove the restrictions, but add a "Bonus Damage vs Lightside" modifier on Red/Purple crystals and a "Bonus Damage vs Darkside" modifier on Blue/Green crystals when used in a Lightsaber.

[areto]

I always felt that faction restrictions made more sense then LS/DS ones. I'd have most people with green/blue on the republic side and most people with red on the empire side, with everyone having access to orange, yellow, purple, rainbow, white, black-core, pink, black-aura etc. etc. etc. But keep 'em rare.

[Vale]

I would say it's ok with some restrictions on colour crystals, but let's have some things for neutral people, let's say the white crystal.

[Vale]

Actually they should remove LS/DS requirement from lightsabers! It's down right stupid some lightsabers (Pretty much every lightsaber from a commendation vendor) require you to be LS/DS. It means a neutral force user can only get lightsabers from flashpoints and main story.

[ConradLionhart]

Jedi not being able to use red lightsabers is akin to jedis not being able to use blasters.

 

The weapon restriction here isn't that Jedi are completely incapable of picking up a gun, removing the safety latch and then pressing the trigger. The restriction here means that jedi prefer to use lightsabers, and blue ones at that.

 

For people to use the literal meaning to imply that restrictions are silly by using the example that Darth Vader cannot get his lightsaber up due to it having the color blue is humorous but a wrong reasoning. There's no need to point out using scientific research to say stuff like there is no solid evidence that jedi and sith are restricted from using red and blue lightsabers personally. They can, they just don't want to. And it is easier for the audience to understand if they are watching a movie, blue lightsaber = good guy, red lightsaber = bad guy. That has become the unwritten rule, and to deviate from it would break immersion.

 

The examples that people point out where some jedis use red lightsabers are just exceptions to the rule. Using that logic, jedis should be able to use guns because Luke Skywalker did use one at one time.

 

So people rage about something like color restrictions of lightsabers, yet don't want to rage about the jedis or siths using guns, which opens up new combat possibilities instead of just pointless vanity?

Edited March 2, 2012 by ConradLionhart

[Rollcageuk]

Crystals are another huge opportunity BW seems to have missed.

 

All players should be able to get all crystals but make all the more unusual ones hard to get. Not a little hard but a proper challenge/timesink that means when players do get a black/purple/white etc crystal, they can wear it with pride.

 

The reputation stuff from WOw was good at that, cerainyl in vanilla/BC where it took weeks to get to exalted with a faction. Some mounts you could only get if they loved you so do the same here.

 

Make them very rare drops from world bosses. Battlemasters only. Long quest chains...etc.

 

In WOW when someone got a piece of kit that was unusual/cool, they would strut around IF/Org showing it off and people were impressed. We need that kind of aspirations in TOR. Rare bits of kit/mounts/crystals that make people want to do the same even if it takes weeks. We need rare spawns that come up once or twice a week.

Anyone remember the rare white cat from WOW that would spawn only once every 3 days, but if you managed to tame him you could go into town and look cool. I spent 4 days literally logging in and just hoping to catch a sight of him(in the middle of a huge group of untameable white cats!). It was great when I finally got him!

 

We need more of this!

 

I like TOR, bt this is one area they truly seem to have missed the point of an MMO. It's a time sink we need things that make you different from others, give people something to aspire to, something difficult or time consuming.

[Vecke]

Jedi not being able to use red lightsabers is akin to jedis not being able to use blasters.

 

The weapon restriction here isn't that Jedi are completely incapable of picking up a gun, removing the safety latch and then pressing the trigger. The restriction here means that jedi prefer to use lightsabers, and blue ones at that.

 

For people to use the literal meaning to imply that restrictions are silly by using the example that Darth Vader cannot get his lightsaber up due to it having the color blue is humorous but a wrong reasoning. There's no need to point out using scientific research to say stuff like there is no solid evidence that jedi and sith are restricted from using red and blue lightsabers personally. They can, they just don't want to. And it is easier for the audience to understand if they are watching a movie, blue lightsaber = good guy, red lightsaber = bad guy. That has become the unwritten rule, and to deviate from it would break immersion.

 

The examples that people point out where some jedis use red lightsabers are just exceptions to the rule. Using that logic, jedis should be able to use guns because Luke Skywalker did use one at one time.

 

So people rage about something like color restrictions of lightsabers, yet don't want to rage about the jedis or siths using guns, which opens up new combat possibilities instead of just pointless vanity?

 

But your argument is already broken by the game. I currently see Jedi using red sabers. That already happens and has since the game started. Currently Jedi can use red sabers and Sith can use blue sabers. It depends on their alignment, not their faction.

 

So right now, you see a jedi using a red saber and it doesn't break your immersion, but after this change, when you see a jedi using a red saber is will break your immersion?

 

I don't see the difference, since you can't see their alignment anyway.

[Boxcar]

But i thought this game was secretly all the movies made into video game form!?!?!?!?

[Kaskava]

The examples that people point out where some jedis use red lightsabers are just exceptions to the rule. Using that logic, jedis should be able to use guns because Luke Skywalker did use one at one time.

 

So people rage about something like color restrictions of lightsabers, yet don't want to rage about the jedis or siths using guns, which opens up new combat possibilities instead of just pointless vanity?

 

I doth recall that a certain Obi-wan Kenobi used a blaster to slay one General Grievous.

 

There were also some Sith NPCs

in the Inquisitor line that use blaster rifles.

 

[Kheldras]

Well- i always wondered i cant have a red-beamed Blasterpistol, as a Lightsider... in the classic Movies, every Rebel swings red-beamed guns.

 

I mean.. its only a crystal, you put in a weapon. its not that a red crystal is so unimaginably evil, it burns your lightdsider hand if you put in in a weapon. Ir a blue blade withers dark force users.

 

The only thing keeping you from using one might be tradition. Sith in classic era use syntheric red crystals, as they had no access to natural crystal caves (wich in turn held only crystals of the green and blue variety). Funnily, even Lukes ROTJ-Green saber is made in a furnace...

 

But there is zero problems with either side using for example, a captured/trophy Saber in battle. Surely each Sith or Jedi usualy builds a saber he keeps for life (Apart from Anakin, who loves loosing his)... this collides with the fact you get Sabers thrown after you on every corner of the game... but you can always keep a saber-look you like and replace only the mods... in 1.5. you can even put Highlevel Stuff in the first saber you got on your graduation.

 

So... why not allow each side to have all colors they like, thise it matters to, will keep their colors.

 

 

Only thing i find un-canon is Black-cored blades... they ever appear in any Movie.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Kheldras

[PhantomAnton]

Sith use red sabers as a matter of prestige, sort of like the colors of a team jersey, banner, or flag. There is nothing more to it than that. Individual Sith have used many different colors of sabers throughout Galactic history.

 

Point of fact, as other people have said, Darth Vader himself continued to use his blue light saber after his fall to the dark side. Only after Obi-wan Kenobi took it away from him on Mustafar (later giving it to Luke) did Vader build a new saber with a red crystal out of choice.

 

It makes no sense to artificially restrict what is a personal choice, both in the official film canon and throughout the expanded universe's history.

[Tatumsa]

agreed on both parts, and the Colors weren't restricted in either KOTOR Game

 

I thought the colour you got in KOTOR was based on which path you picked? Been a few years since I played so not entirely sure.

[Denskoo]

Unless I am mistaken, isn't the lore of the colors really only around which crystals they had access to and not a morality thing?

[WerTwist]

Unless I am mistaken, isn't the lore of the colors really only around which crystals they had access to and not a morality thing?

 

You're right.

[daMarek]

This change will take away a great deal from the art style and general atmosphere of the game.

 

Imagine in the intro, if the sith didnt have all red and jedi all green/blue sabers, how lame would that look?

[testszag]

all i can say is, YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

my jedi only make darkside choices anyway, but i am glad that this ridiculous restriction is gone. good job bw, good job.

[Korrigan]

Personally I think all colors should be available to both sides, except red which should be Empire only.

[Shinybum]

So if the colour variations are based on natural vs artificial crystals, and the natural crystals come from Ilum, what's the issue? After all, the Empire has a base on Ilum!

 

Or at least I'm pretty sure that's where I keep blowing up Republic mining equipment and (trying to) defend our crystal shipments...

Edited March 2, 2012 by Shinybum

[Terko_Koslah]

I agree with op. This game is not definitely going in a direction preferred by me. I like to play without name plates and it would be nice to identify an enemy from the color of his light saber, which in fact has been impossible even now. Too bad.

[EnsignSorrow]

This change will take away a great deal from the art style and general atmosphere of the game.

 

Imagine in the intro, if the Sith didn't have all red and Jedi all green/blue sabers, how lame would that look?

 

I agree there. Where the ships crashes into the Jedi temple, and you see all the sabers light up in the dark- instead of red it's just a rainbow.

 

I knew the complainers would get their way over lore. Sure lore supports any color, but what the game did was restrict players into keeping the art style in the direction of lore with some flexibility.

 

I think Red, Green, and Blue should be faction based instead of alignment. Everything else is open.

 

Color crystals shouldn't of had stats either. They should have just been a basic item. That way they wouldn't have to worry about the implementation of color crystals and focus rather on providing a lore appropriate selection at a certain point in the progression.

Edited March 2, 2012 by EnsignSorrow

[Terko_Koslah]

This change will take away a great deal from the art style and general atmosphere of the game.

 

Imagine in the intro, if the sith didnt have all red and jedi all green/blue sabers, how lame would that look?

 

This.

[BCBull]

Add more depth not take it away...