LoL-K-Noob Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Fact #2: You lose all survivability. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) nope. 120 main stat < 12% more damage 120 main stat = maybe 30 damage max if you do around 800 damage, which is a very low estimate, 12% of that is a lot more than 30 Edited March 1, 2012 by bicuspid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 nope. 120 main stat < 12% more damage 120 main stat = maybe 30 damage max if you do around 800 damage, which is a very low estimate, 12% of that is a lot more than 30 wooooooooooooooooooooosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 nope. 120 main stat < 12% more damage 120 main stat = maybe 30 damage max if you do around 800 damage, which is a very low estimate, 12% of that is a lot more than 30 Just did a duel with a full champ guardian switch between gear and did more with rakata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenonParsec Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 wooooooooooooooooooooosh ^ 5 chars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeld Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Just did a duel with a full champ guardian switch between gear and did more with rakata. Champ is t2 pvp, rakata is t3 pve, t2<t3 probleme is there. However... combine bm gear w/ rakata, get around 10% boost from expertise (current fashion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Champ is t2 pvp, rakata is t3 pve, t2<t3 probleme is there. However... combine bm gear w/ rakata, get around 10% boost from expertise (current fashion). Who cares if he is wearing t2 pvp gear? I switched ME from my BM pieces to rakata and did more damage to him where he didnt switch any gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 wooooooooooooooooooooosh The sound of the worse air-ball ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exaro Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 To the above comments; I gain roughly 300 more of my main stat and a buttload more crit power and surge in rakata. This is far better in terms of raw pvp damage than what the equivalent battlemaster set provides me even though I have less survivability and weak heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnomz Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 lol PvE > PvP gear for PvP in TOR... Only in TOR this can happen. They stole whole that PvP gear concept from Blizzard... and still failed to make it actually serve its purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 To the above comments; I gain roughly 300 more of my main stat and a buttload more crit power and surge in rakata. This is far better in terms of raw pvp damage than what the equivalent battlemaster set provides me even though I have less survivability and weak heals. Not worth the trade off. The damage is minimal in comparison to 12+% damage reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbb Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I wear my 4 piece pvp because its very good, and my implants because the itemization on rakatta is idiotic, and the rest rakatta, and yeah rakatta does a lot more dmg, I've done the math, from 400-600 expertise works out to about 100 aim and 3% crit and 10% surge. So for 2% expertise you get about 6% dmg and 3% crit and 10% surge. Rakatta is better, and it's dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Fact: You do 0 dps while dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Everyone knows Rakata+BM > just BM. This is quite simply because the diminishing returns on expertise are too high past 10%. They need to flatten their DR curve right up to 15-20% so people would use their full PVP sets, barring the occasional 2pc PVE for set bonus. Right now, PVE gear is better than PVP gear for PVP. Straight up. And that's just wrong. Edit Just in case someone at Bioware reads this, here is the line for your patch notes: The diminishing returns on expertise have been reduced in order to increase the desirability of PVP equipment for PVP purposes. Edited March 2, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The defensive bonus from expertise is not affected by the diminishing returns as much as the offensive component. The end-result is that expertise has close to linear returns on the defensive end of things, and staying alive is much more important in pvp than how much damage you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabaker Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) The defensive bonus from expertise is not affected by the diminishing returns as much as the offensive component. The end-result is that expertise has close to linear returns on the defensive end of things, and staying alive is much more important in pvp than how much damage you do. Really? Didn't know that Edited March 2, 2012 by Teabaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeiele Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If you leave the craptastic enhancements IE accuracy in the PVP gear it going to hit a litlle softer...try changing them out with some of the champ stuff that has crit/surge like jedi gloves etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balmuck Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The defensive bonus from expertise is not affected by the diminishing returns as much as the offensive component. The end-result is that expertise has close to linear returns on the defensive end of things, and staying alive is much more important in pvp than how much damage you do. How the hell does that make any sense? If they're bundled in the same exact stat, the diminishing return is exactly the same. Go ahead and put on 400 expertise and check out your per cent and then add another 200-300 more... The DR is crazy after you hit 500. I've tested this numerous times and a mix of PVE and PVP gear is the best way to go. The overall % of expertise lost as far as defense is concerned, is greatly offset by the amount of HP you gain from the PVE gear. You can easily gain 1k+ HP and gain a TON more damage and crit/surge rating with the PVE gear. It took my buddy about 3 extra hits to kill me with 4 pieces Rakata then it did in full BM, on top of me gaining what I mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 How the hell does that make any sense? If they're bundled in the same exact stat, the diminishing return is exactly the same. Go ahead and put on 400 expertise and check out your per cent and then add another 200-300 more... The DR is crazy after you hit 500. I've tested this numerous times and a mix of PVE and PVP gear is the best way to go. The overall % of expertise lost as far as defense is concerned, is greatly offset by the amount of HP you gain from the PVE gear. You can easily gain 1k+ HP and gain a TON more damage and crit/surge rating with the PVE gear. It took my buddy about 3 extra hits to kill me with 4 pieces Rakata then it did in full BM, on top of me gaining what I mentioned above. More HP does not > More Damage reduction. Also you dont get a ton more damage and you can get the same crit/surge rating by putting in those mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) How the hell does that make any sense? If they're bundled in the same exact stat, the diminishing return is exactly the same. It's just the way the math works. As a theoretical example, if you have 15000 damage and with no expertise get hit for 500 each attack it takes 30 hits to kill you. 5% expertise means you get hit for 5% less which means you get hit for 475 per attack so it now takes 31.58 hits which is a change of 1.58 for the first 5% expertise. Now say you have 10% expertise and you get hit for 450 each this means it takes 33.33 hits to kill you which is a change of 1.75 (from the 5% expertise). So the 2nd 5% of expertise yields greater benefit than the first 5%. It actually exponentially grows from there 15% - 425 - 35.29 hits change of 1.96 20% - 400 - 37.5 hits change of 2.21 Now obviously these are all just theoretical numbers and don't accurately represent what happens in a real warzone match, but I am merely trying to illustrate the benefits of the cumulative effect of expertise. So while you may get less of a percentage boost with the more expertise you get, the effective boost from those percentages is staying nearly constant. The same is not true about offensive bonuses which do take full effect from diminishing returns. Also realize that when you are receiving heals you have an effective health pool much larger than 15000 and in that situation expertise becomes even more important. Also as a healer expertise is a triple dip stat. If you are not full battlemaster as a healer you are doing it wrong. Edited March 2, 2012 by mechintel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozith Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The damage reduction and bonus damage from expertise is far greater benefit. Sure, you might glass cannon in full rakata, but you will die. Half of PvP is survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 The damage reduction and bonus damage from expertise is far greater benefit. Sure, you might glass cannon in full rakata, but you will die. Half of PvP is survivability. Its all about the scoreboard at the end of the match and who does most damage, thats all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Its all about the scoreboard at the end of the match and who does most damage, thats all that matters. Wrong, all that matters is whether you win or not. The dailies don't require you to do x amount of damage. They require you to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wrong, all that matters is whether you win or not. The dailies don't require you to do x amount of damage. They require you to win. 1 man doesnt make or break a team. You'll eventually win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wrong, all that matters is whether you win or not. The dailies don't require you to do x amount of damage. They require you to win. all that matters is that you have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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