WOW really made me appreciate SWTOR

[vekkth]

It's funny because it actually used to be a faceroll and now became challenging. The old challenge was finding 40 players, skill was entirely optional for the vast majority of those 40.

 

you never played old wow, admit it. You are a bright example of, excuse me, worse WoW population type - a cataclysm child. even WOTLK kids were actually more bearable then you.

WoW was hard in here:

 

AQ40.

old Nax, may be nothing still beats it, because of the fact you have to get 40 skilled people online with no latency problems (SUP I LAGGED AND WTFPWNT MY TEAM ON THADDIUS!)

TBC dungeon heroics. prenerf they were hillarious, some of them so challenging to a freshly geared team we still laugh about it sometimes. Wasnt as hard for a nax geared people tho.

TBC Sunwell. never been there myself, since i stopped raiding for that period, but from those who cleared it, probably hardest and surely most tedious instant ever, especially prenerf.

WOTLK Ulduar hardmodes. Hillarious stuff, very challenging and interesting, but a bit tedious, some of them. Firefighter 25 might be still considered on of the hardest hardmodes ever.

WOTLK ICC was fun, not as exhausting as Sunwell, not as hard as Ulduar, still a lot of fun and interesting mechanics.

 

Everything else was either easy, or medicore. Karazhan, for example, was really great because of the story built in to it, but so effing tiresome because of its size and amount of trash - very similar to BWL, but BWL has some amazing bosses, for its time the design of the fights were fresh.

 

But still, saying old raiding was easy is just laughable. 4 horsemen original, dude, you never been there. Do not speak.

[SlaveV]

Getting top level gear in WoW was not a matter of invested time. You clearly haven't read the fact that less than 2% of the population of the game has cleared Dragon Soul on hardmode. That means, less than 2% of the population has gotten the best gear available.

 

WoW raiding is far more than just an investment of time. It's a serious measure of not only personal skill, but situation awareness and the ability to multitask.

 

You sir, are extremely incorrect. < 2% of the population has gotten the best gear in WoW because of hard-core guilds that only recruit people that live and breathe WoW and devote 3+ nights per week spending 4+ hours every night in attempt after attempt on one single boss. Mind-numbing and frustrating is not what I call a great game, dude. Take your hard-core makes right attitude back to WoW, since it is SOOOOOO great for you and your lifestyle.

 

No, Wow is not more than an investment of time. It's not a measure of personal skill at all; it is a measure of hardcore persistence and nothing more. Sure, you make 800 attempts on one boss hoping each time that some newb doesn't screw it up until your eyes bleed - yeah you are going to down it eventually.

 

I have been playing WoW since it was a newborn baby and I will tell you that WoW has very little on SWTOR. Spending 7 years building a game and sure it will be more polished. WoW raiding totally sucks and and is NOT a selling point for a large portion of the WoW population. It is a selling point for YOU, sure. Then, go enjoy it and quit trying to convince everyone that WoW raiding is some perfectly created MMO dream come true.

[vekkth]

You sir, are extremely incorrect. < 2% of the population has gotten the best gear in WoW because of hard-core guilds that only recruit people that live and breathe WoW and devote 3+ nights per week spending 4+ hours every night in attempt after attempt on one single boss. Mind-numbing and frustrating is not what I call a great game, dude. Take your hard-core makes right attitude back to WoW, since it is SOOOOOO great for you and your lifestyle.

 

No, Wow is not more than an investment of time. It's not a measure of personal skill at all; it is a measure of hardcore persistence and nothing more. Sure, you make 800 attempts on one boss hoping each time that some newb doesn't screw it up until your eyes bleed - yeah you are going to down it eventually.

 

I have been playing WoW since it was a newborn baby and I will tell you that WoW has very little on SWTOR. Spending 7 years building a game and sure it will be more polished. WoW raiding totally sucks and and is NOT a selling point for a large portion of the WoW population. It is a selling point for YOU, sure. Then, go enjoy it and quit trying to convince everyone that WoW raiding is some perfectly created MMO dream come true.

 

 

this is a very good read, coming from a person who, i think, did that - raided wow 4-5 hours a day 3-4 days a week. Everyone should read the above text and think about it.

[Synamon]

haha you guys still going on about this.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

No thank you. I'm a fan of the old style WoW, you know.... where you actually needed to socialize to do something. If you're so anti-social that you need LFD to do content, I pity you.

 

Oh, did they remove the option to form your own group before enter a dungeon? What's that? They didn't? So you can still go run instances with your guildmates, or friends? Imagine that! Heck, now you can instance or even raid with friends on different servers!

 

I still always prefer running dungeons or raids with my friends, but it's nice to have the option of using the LFD tool when my friends aren't around. As a hardcore raider in WoW, I have no problem with the LFD or even the LFR (looking for raid) system. It's great having options, and being able to just log in and play when you want.

 

On my main, I do scheduled heroic raid progression with my guild.

 

On an alt, I do scheduled normal mode alt raids with my guild and friends.

 

And when the urge to raid strikes me at 4AM on a Thursday, I can log in on any of my characters, queue up for LFR, and be raiding in 10 minutes. That's pretty awesome.

Edited February 29, 2012 by ShaftyMcShaft

[ROSS-]

The thing is, what will keep gamers from cancelling their subscription is how good the endgame is....QUOTE]

 

really? Wow didn't become sucessful because of its endgame. How do I know this? Because Ghostcrawler himself said before wotlk that fewer than 5% of the player base was even doing the raids (and I think far fewer were doing arenas). Yet, that period pre-wrath was a time of great expansion for wow.

 

imho, I think what will keep the masses from unsubscribing is whether the game as a whole is fun to play and people want to log on regularly.

[SymbioticDJK]

haha you guys still going on about this.

 

Yes. The forums are more entertaining than going to the back of a building to get something only to kill the trash again on my way out x 1000.

[Drouh]

You sir, are extremely incorrect. < 2% of the population has gotten the best gear in WoW because of hard-core guilds that only recruit people that live and breathe WoW and devote 3+ nights per week spending 4+ hours every night in attempt after attempt on one single boss.

 

actually....I've played in one of those guilds for several years you're describing and let me tell you. New content -> WTFBBQ for 2 days straight...then 3 months idle and just keep the hc on farm-mode. It's really not time-consuming in the long run if you know what you're doing and learn it right away. scrubs doing pugs will waste easily 4x our time wiping again and again...

[oakamp]

The thing is, what will keep gamers from cancelling their subscription is how good the endgame is. And while SWToR's 1-50 gameplay me be better than WoW's, once you hit 50 you are pretty much done. Raids are easy, getting full battlemaster is easy, and there is no competitivity at all since we don't have tools to measure our own performance, let alone others. On the other hand you have WoW, which lacks something completely unnecessary for an MMO(Voice Acting), and instead put more effort in balancing the time you take to complete the endgame.

 

give us a prove, how many ppl in ur server are full battlemaster gears?

and how many players clear all raids on ur server?

otherwise we wont believe u.

[vekkth]

actually....I've played in one of those guilds for several years you're describing and let me tell you. New content -> WTFBBQ for 2 days straight...then 3 months idle and just keep the hc on farm-mode. It's really not time-consuming in the long run if you know what you're doing and learn it right away. scrubs doing pugs will waste easily 4x our time wiping again and again...

 

2 days? we stayed for 2 weeks online for 10-12 hours, sometimes just doing nothing waiting for a free spot in a group trying boss over and over again, when new content was out. People were taking vacations from their jobs just to be there.

 

2 days thats like, wow. HARDCORE!!!!

[Shonuff]

I think the problem with SWTOR is that for a game that revolves around being at war, it does a lousy job at putting you in constant conflict with the other side. Even if your on a PvP server it feels more like a ganking contest than any kind of real conflict. Ilum is a perfect example of a lousy conflict, it's flashy, you got empty walkers who can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn. Instead of fighting for the very control of the planet, what are you doing? Collecting Armaments that will NEVER be used just to complete a mission. Fun.

 

Every planet does it's best to keep the other side from crossing your territory as much as possible. Rarley do missions ever cross over to the other side. It does'nt encourage conflict, to me it trys to hold your hand in hopes that you don't ever have to fight a player in anything other than wz's. I like wz's but I want to feel like im fighting for something real important. I want to feel like I have something to lose if I don't fight. This to me would have been endgame bliss.

 

Now I know we are talking specifically about endgame content but to me, this type of endgame content is at the end of every MMO i've played so far. I want to feel like im really at war and not just pretending we are. That's what would make me keep my subscription in the near future.

[oakamp]

actually....I've played in one of those guilds for several years you're describing and let me tell you. New content -> WTFBBQ for 2 days straight...then 3 months idle and just keep the hc on farm-mode. It's really not time-consuming in the long run if you know what you're doing and learn it right away. scrubs doing pugs will waste easily 4x our time wiping again and again...

 

yap, it is good for houseboys can always have fun with same nerd,

whom have no day jobs,play hardcodes,

maybe old EQ raids will suit them.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

You sir, are extremely incorrect. < 2% of the population has gotten the best gear in WoW because of hard-core guilds that only recruit people that live and breathe WoW and devote 3+ nights per week spending 4+ hours every night in attempt after attempt on one single boss. Mind-numbing and frustrating is not what I call a great game, dude. Take your hard-core makes right attitude back to WoW, since it is SOOOOOO great for you and your lifestyle.

 

No, Wow is not more than an investment of time. It's not a measure of personal skill at all; it is a measure of hardcore persistence and nothing more. Sure, you make 800 attempts on one boss hoping each time that some newb doesn't screw it up until your eyes bleed - yeah you are going to down it eventually.

 

I have been playing WoW since it was a newborn baby and I will tell you that WoW has very little on SWTOR. Spending 7 years building a game and sure it will be more polished. WoW raiding totally sucks and and is NOT a selling point for a large portion of the WoW population. It is a selling point for YOU, sure. Then, go enjoy it and quit trying to convince everyone that WoW raiding is some perfectly created MMO dream come true.

 

 

That's why there are different difficulty levels. You do not HAVE to do heroic raids. If you're super casual, you can use the LFR. If you're a casual guild, you can do normal modes. If you like a challenge and want to play with others who do, too, you can join a heroic guild. Or none of those! That's what's great about a good MMO...there's a lot of different things to do. It doesn't have to be all things to all people, but it does have to be SOMETHING to EACH person.

 

I really don't think you've done heroic progression raiding at any decent level in WoW recently, or you would know that it is completely about skill, situational awareness, communication and coordination. It is NOT about banging your head into the encounter hundreds of times until it dies.

 

I killed heroic Ragnaros pre-2nd-nerf, and I will say that one was too much. Took 300 attempts. But NOTHING else ever took near that much. Everything else was less than 40. And it was about learning the encounter, refining strategies, being aware, and not dying.

 

In SWTOR there is no hardmode. You have Incredibly Easy, Very Easy, and still Really Easy. Personally, I like hardmode raiding, so that's what I do. But that doesn't exist in this game. Keep normal and hardmode the same, that's fine....just turn the knob way up on NMM with new, advanced mechanics.

 

Ultimately that's the problem with this game. There's only one way to play: level alts. An MMO's player base is diverse, with altoholics, RPers, raiders, pvpers, and levels of interest from casual to hardcore, but there aren't game systems there to satisfy the different play styles.

 

Raider? Lol, you've finished everything 2 weeks after hitting 50.

 

PvPer? Enjoy the same 3 warzones, Ilum slideshow, and RNG bag rage.

 

RPer? Good luck RPing Han and Greedo when the game won't let you sit in a chair.

 

Crafter? Stand in fleet. Click button. Wait 45 minutes. Crit? No. Try again.

 

Alt leveler? Enjoy the same planets in the same order with the same "kill x Space Wolves, collect Y Space Boar Spleens" quests for another 50 levels.

 

Completionist/Achievement-hound? Spend an afternoon getting datacrons. Done.

Edited February 29, 2012 by ShaftyMcShaft

[vekkth]

I killed heroic Ragnaros pre-2nd-nerf, and I will say that one was too much. Took 300 attempts. But NOTHING else ever took near that much. Everything else was less than 40. And it was about learning the encounter, refining strategies, being aware, and not dying.

 

 

dude, lets say it, you never actually did anything else prenerf apart from that raggy kill? this is so obviously stupid what you say, or just not true.

 

you can do "40 tries for a boss" only after it was nerfed to the ground. even normal modes, when just released, takes more then that if taken seriously. Hardmodes are much worse. I really want to know how many tries it took for you on Ouro or CTun himself. 40? ok

Edited February 29, 2012 by vekkth

[ShaftyMcShaft]

dude, lets say it, you never actually did anything else prenerf apart from that raggy kill? this is so obviously stupid what you say, or just not true.

 

you can do "40 tries for a boss" only after it was nerfed to the ground. even normal modes, when just released, takes more then that if taken seriously. Hardmodes are much worse. I really want to know how many tries it took for you on Ouro or CTun himself. 40? ok

 

Okay, that's true, C'Thun was awful. Mainly just because of the run back. Hell, it might have only taken 40 attempts...but spread out over 2 months because You could only do like 4 in a night anyway lol.

 

When I said "everything else was less than 40" I was really only thinking of Firelands. It took us 2 weeks (after HM's opened) to be 6/7HM.

Edited February 29, 2012 by ShaftyMcShaft

[dnomz]

OP didn't play WoW in it's golden days.

 

And since you played TOR first you are used to have everything fully speeched and everyone holding your hand until max level telling you EXACTLY what to do and where to go.

 

WoW is boring and with the upcoming Pandas even getting stupid, but it still beats this game any day.

[Cordelia]

I played WoW since shortly after the release of the game 7 years ago. In it's own right, it is a good game, but does not compare to SWTOR. The voice overs are amazing. It is much better than reading quest text, though 7 years ago, that was the norm among MMOs.

 

What this game does that pushes the MMO genre much further is not only the massive amount of voice over, but the decision making system also. The "You Choose Your Story" in an MMO has not been done to this scale before.

 

There is currently nothing like this game on the market for an MMO.

 

The decisions you make have zero effect on your character. The whole light/dark choices are a bit of fluff that just allow you to wear certain gear. I think you'll find 'Your Story' is pretty much what hundreds of thousands of other people experience. Now, if they added meaningful choices that did affect your character development and the story outcome that would be something.

[Master-Nala]

No...they lack in endgame because devs have no idea what the **** to do. A great leveling experience will only keep you subbed for so long. It's limited in how you can improve and how much you can add, since once you hit the maximum level, that content loses its purpose(and thats how dailies are born). If it didn't work for you, too bad.

 

I know I had a good time leveling in WoW, maybe because I did it with my friends back when leveling took some effort. Admittedly, I also had a blast leveling in SWTOR...Problem is, the fun ended 3 weeks after hitting 50.

 

Not everyone plays to raid for more loot to raid for more loot to raid for more loot to raid....

[Master-Nala]

The decisions you make have zero effect on your character.

 

True for some classes, but not for all.

[Bobzitto]

Not everyone plays to raid for more loot to raid for more loot to raid for more loot to raid....

 

I know. I don't raid for loot, I raid for fun. There's nothing remotely challenging in SWTORs raid, and I'm pretty sure that the people who downed stuff in Naxx40, SWP, even HM Ulduar pre-nerf will agree. I'm already done with SWTOR, sub cancelled, most of my friends quit as well....just spending some time here until I can play Tera again.

 

Enjoy your pretty voice acting and keep telling yourself that it's worth to pay a sub for a single-player game. Bobz out.

[Seisaan]

I remember back when I played WoW all I would ever hear was, "The real game starts at *insert max level here*". Which, is great and all, but if the leveling bores me out of my mind, why would I invest the time to get to max level? I was rarely bored while questing in SWToR. I know that, fundamentally, the quests are the same for both games, but it really is the presentation that makes the difference for me.

[Reaperchris]

Funny its the other way around for me.

 

Must be because SWTOR is too hard for you.

[Lucpol]

SWTOR- levelling alts

WoW- PVP and occassional raiding (+achievements)

 

Best of both worlds for me and the little free time i have.

 

My 2 c

[Icebaron]

So SWTOR brought me to mmo's it was my first. After a month and a half I had two level 50's and was stumped with what to do next. I was frustrated at lack of content at the end of the game and lack of pvp at times. So I decided to try World of Warcraft as everyone bangs on about how good it is or was or whatever. I logged on for the first time and made a hunter warewolf and began my questing, and could not believe how dull it was up to level 10. There's no voice overs and its an absolute guess where to go for questing. I'm not ************ at it because it is a 7 year old game but the fact that people are comparing these two games is really surprising me, if people just overlook there addiction they had to the game and actually compared the two, SWTOR wins hands down. So Bioware you will be seeing a lot more of me on your game

 

Smartest thing you can do is compare the leveling in SWTOR to the leveling in WoW. You are sure to find a long term game to hold your attention by only comparing leveling.

 

on a serious note, you left SWTOR at endgame because it bored you. Had you gotten to endgame in WoW you would have found alot more to do.

[Morthis]

you never played old wow, admit it. You are a bright example of, excuse me, worse WoW population type - a cataclysm child. even WOTLK kids were actually more bearable then you.

 

No, I have been playing since the start, and raided.

 

AQ40.

 

AQ40 was significantly harder than anything else we'd seen at the time, but it was not hard by modern standards. Take dark glare, at the time a pretty punishing mechanic because it was a straight up one shot that could take out a lot of people at a time when one shot mechanics were still relatively rare. Now the one shot beams will come as a beam splitting the room into 4 pieces or in unpredictable ways (Sinestra).

 

My guild killed C'thun when it was current content, and we were average at best. Even at the time of our kill we still had people absolutely incapable of surviving a dark glare if their group was the one targeted. Show me a current content hard heroic fight where people can just die to mechanics and they'll get the kill anyway.

 

old Nax, may be nothing still beats it, because of the fact you have to get 40 skilled people online with no latency problems (SUP I LAGGED AND WTFPWNT MY TEAM ON THADDIUS!)

 

Old Naxx was hard, I did say it got harder as WoW went on, this is when it really started. C'thun was really only a warmup compared to a lot of Naxx. Even so, the people that cleared Naxx 40 when it was current content have actually gone out and said that heroic Ragnaros was harder.

 

TBC dungeon heroics. prenerf they were hillarious, some of them so challenging to a freshly geared team we still laugh about it sometimes. Wasnt as hard for a nax geared people tho.

 

I remember those days, clearing a heroic was an actual achievement. That has certainly changed a lot since TBC. I don't think that's a bad thing though, there's still more difficult challenges available for those who want them in raids.

 

TBC Sunwell. never been there myself, since i stopped raiding for that period, but from those who cleared it, probably hardest and surely most tedious instant ever, especially prenerf.

 

Definitely one of the hardest, I won't dispute that.

 

WOTLK Ulduar hardmodes. Hillarious stuff, very challenging and interesting, but a bit tedious, some of them. Firefighter 25 might be still considered on of the hardest hardmodes ever.

 

Ulduar was one of the best raids WoW has seen imo. It had a great atmosphere, nice lore, an interesting optional boss (both from mechanics and lore point of view) and I enjoyed the concept of hard modes because of specific things done in the fight more than hard mode because you switched the difficulty slider. Firefighter remains one of my favorite fights I've ever done.

 

WOTLK ICC was fun, not as exhausting as Sunwell, not as hard as Ulduar, still a lot of fun and interesting mechanics.

 

ICC was good. I felt Lich King delivered on creating a fight that was both fun and interesting while at the same time really giving you that epic feeling of fighting a crazy powerful being. I felt the same way about Illidan and especially about Kael'thas (the first time he shatters his room is just great), but for Arthas I felt they did a better job explaining just how a bunch of random clowns could defeat him (he was just toying with us until 10% when he should have taken it more seriously).

 

But still, saying old raiding was easy is just laughable. 4 horsemen original, dude, you never been there. Do not speak.

 

I never said this, I said skill was mostly optional for most 40 man content, which was true. It didn't get really hard until Nax. Even if we lob some AQ40 fights into the list of hard, that still leaves all of MC, all of BWL and a good chunk of AQ40 as being pretty easy where people could slack their way through it. I remember when damage meters came out and we found out most of our casters were auto wanding while our hunters were just auto shooting, not even pushing buttons, and we were already clearing BWL by then.