SWTOR vs SWG

[HyperThomas]

All of this is the truth, SWG was a great game, greater than TOR will ever be. The haters can have their opinion, even though we know that they are obviously wrong. Start of a new 100 pages!

[Liquidacid]

SWG was so good it had almost as many subscribers for a majority of it's life as I have friends on facebook

[psandak]

I will say this in defense of SWTOR a lot of complaints are about things like open world PVP well newsflash we can do that too but it up to us as players to make it happen that has nothing to do with the developers of this game.

 

I'm not sure I agree. Yes, World PvP is possible, but for the most the part you have to go WAY out of your way to make it happen.

 

Even in WoW there were areas where both factions passed each other by on a regular basis. Yes, it was up to the players to engage each other, but opportunities were consistent and persistent. In SWTOR, yes the two factions are on the same planets but they inhabit different areas on those planets; I think in the six months I have been playing regularly (all republic) I think I have seen five imperial characters and have always been genuinely surprised when I do.

 

Getting back to main topic, the problem with comparing SWG and SWTOR is that they are very different games and they each cater to a different demographic. SWG was a sandbox - you are dropped on a planet with no direction and left to your own devices. There is a lot of stuff you can do, but you can pick and choose what you want to do. A lot of gamers like this style of play, but I would guess it is no where near a majority since sandbox MMOs are few and far between. OTOH, SWTOR is a themepark telling you what there is to do, you do not HAVE to do any of it, but the process of leveling is easier if you follow at least some of what is suggested.

 

In addition, the SWG crafting system was a centerpiece of the game - crafting was the way to get the best gear. In TOR, the crafting system plays a far more ancillary role - it helps while leveling, it can make a couple of high end pieces (Rakata patterns), but after that it loses its usefulness (with some notable exceptions).

 

Lastly, TOR introduced something new to MMOs - character story. for RPers this is huge. Up until TOR, I know that I separated computer RPGs from tabletop RPGs. TTRPGs is where I "role-play". I think of a character concept and personality and build a character around that concept and personality. I come up with a back story and the GM incorporates it into his/her campaign. In MMOs, I used to just pick a class I wanted to play and played it, no thought went into the character. With TOR, and the conversation (and LS/DS) choices I have developed personalities for my characters.

 

My overall point is that comparing SWG and SWTOR is pointless. There are those who loved (and still love) SWG, and there are those who love TOR, and neither side will ever convince the other to change their mind.

[LordNyxus]

Many people loved SW:G and many people hated it. The same is true of SW:TOR. The two games are so vastly different that those who loved SW:G will not particularly feel the same about SW:TOR, and those who hated SW:G will most likely really like SW:TOR. This revelation aside, let's see what the pros and cons of both implementations of the Star Wars IP in a MMO translates into.

 

Let us start with Star Wars Galaxies:

 

Sandbox elements which allowed players to have their own homes and starships. These homes were varied and the decorating aspects were limited only by your imagination. Player housing allowed players a place to store items outside of the bank box or character inventory and served as great role-play backdrops.

 

Player cities were a highlight that allowed guilds and social groups to actually build a presence in the Star Wars universe. The problem became obvious when players began leaving SW:G and the servers were heavily populated with player-built "ghost towns."

 

Crafting was a role in itself. So much so, that the NGE implementation made crafting classes that held no combat role. Crafting required skill, time, and patience. Entire guilds were created simply for crafting purposes. Nearly every object in the game was able to be crafted, and all of the best items (outside of heroic jewelry) were completely obtained through crafting. Crafting drove the player economy, and the implementation of vendors made the universe seem a bit more real.

 

Entertainers were a truly social class that added value to the game. From creating social hubs (as everyone gathered in areas where the entertainers were performing), to providing useful buffs for PvE and PvP combat alike. Even Medics were able to provide valuable buffs, making them even more important.

 

Star Wars Galaxies was released on June 26, 2003. And for the time the graphics were rather good. Very few graphics updates were seen throughout its lifetime. Animations were lacking, effects were sporadic, and there were plenty of bugs. This caused a lot of grief in the community.

 

As far as development, there were three expansions. Jump to Light Speed introduce space combat and exploration in a truly wonderful fashion. You would mine space resources, craft ship components, and even decorate your yacht or cruiser as you would your home. You truly started to feel as though the Star Wars universe was coming alive.

 

Rage of the Wookies introduced us to Kashyyk and wealth of new PvE content. The Trials of Obi-Wan gave us Mustafar and more PvE content.

 

Star Wars Galaxies had many themepark elements outside of its sandbox nature. So much so that many players never completed all of it. There were dungeons (called heroics or instances) that were difficult even for the most seasoned players. And even when they became easy (after much practice) players found ways of trying to make them more difficult (try completing Karraga's Palace or Eternity Vault using only the Trooper class or Bounty Hunter class).

 

Galaxies had true open-world PvP...this means that PvP rewards were granted anywhere that PvP happened, and there were no locations where PvP could not, and did not, happen! PvP and PvE were integrated. PvPers took part in PvE dungeons because the rewards were the same and did not have a PvP gear/PvE gear qualification. Gear is gear (though there were augments you could buy that granted PvP specific boosts).

 

Let us look at Star Wars: The Old Republic

 

SWTOR is visually stunning. The animations and effects are truly wonderful, and the voice-overs are great. There are a few graphical bugs present, but they are not game-breaking and are barely noticeable, unless you are looking for them.

 

The story lines are really well done. Leveling and questing is not so much of a grind (though it can feel that way at end game and higher levels where it takes a long time to gain a level). The content players were given was done extremely well...as we would all expect from BioWare.

 

Crafting? It is ok. Nothing too new, just the same ol' same ol'. The greatest part of crafting is companion missions, which is all because of the companion idea. I must admit, the entire companion idea is great. I want companions in all my MMOs. However, it would have been great if we were given a bit more choice in these matters. Why can't every class be given a choice of light side/dark side companion? Why can't all companions have detailed story arcs?

 

SW:TOR is entirely themepark. There is not a single sandbox element in the entire game. It is also PvE-centric. PvE is the overriding theme to the game. PvP is a secondary attraction, similar to the space "rail" shooter we were given.

 

I left SW:TOR with the feeling of, "That was a fun game, and I quite enjoyed being able to participate in those stories with friends playing along my side." However, any future "content," or "expansion" will feel more like typical DLC for a single player game rather than building the Star Wars universe as provided in SW:TOR.

 

I left SW:G with the feeling of, "I really enjoyed my life here, and I made amazing friends. But, it is time for this game to die...hopefully to be reincarnated into the glory it could truly become."

 

 

When it comes to Star Wars, I must ask Lucas Arts the following:

 

"When will you have extracted enough money from the IP, that you might truly consider creating an IP MMO that is about maintaining a legacy. Star Wars Galaxies was a great try, but was not taken seriously enough to elicit proper development. Star Wars: The Old Republicis a great game...not a great MMO. It shows that this game was all about commercialization and profits; hence the involvement of EA.

 

Have you finnaly made enough money fron the Star Wars IP that you can seriously consider backing, funding, or developing truly epic Star Wars experience for MMO players?"

Edited September 11, 2012 by LordNyxus

[CassusVerda]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This *Claps and cries* So Beautiful. Well Said.

[jarjarloves]

All of this is the truth, SWG was a great game, greater than TOR will ever be. The haters can have their opinion, even though we know that they are obviously wrong. Start of a new 100 pages!

 

if it was a greater game then SWTOR then why did it never even come close to the amount of players SWTOR has?

 

Also there is this.

http://rubenfield.com/?p=86

 

when a developer of the game says its bad then i'm sorry it's bad

[jarjarloves]

SWG was so good it had almost as many subscribers for a majority of it's life as I have friends on facebook

 

i spit up my drink

 

You sir win the thread

[Crip]

Swtor has the better combat but not enough open pvp to use it. SWTOR also has a better method of leveling your char to max level, but that is about it in my opinion.

 

Everything els about SWG was better. the galaxie felt a lot more alive due to player housing and that hardly anything in game would exist if a crafter didn't make it or farm resources. The player bounty hunter system wokred well and made a bounty hunter feel like a bounty hunter, For instance a BH could walk into a cantina in swg and could make everyone turn their head in paranoia that they may be a target.

 

The space combat although not perfect was better than swtor.

The crafting in swg was better than swtor.

The char creation was better than swtor.

The amount of race options to play in SWG was way better than swtor.

[Crip]

Many people loved SW:G and many people hated it. The same is true of SW:TOR. The two games are so vastly different that those who loved SW:G will not particularly feel the same about SW:TOR, and those who hated SW:G will most likely really like SW:TOR. This revelation aside, let's see what the pros and cons of both implementations of the Star Wars IP in a MMO translates into.

 

Let us start with Star Wars Galaxies:

 

Sandbox elements which allowed players to have their own homes and starships. These homes were varied and the decorating aspects were limited only by your imagination. Player housing allowed players a place to store items outside of the bank box or character inventory and served as great role-play backdrops.

 

Player cities were a highlight that allowed guilds and social groups to actually build a presence in the Star Wars universe. The problem became obvious when players began leaving SW:G and the servers were heavily populated with player-built "ghost towns."

 

Crafting was a role in itself. So much so, that the NGE implementation made crafting classes that held no combat role. Crafting required skill, time, and patience. Entire guilds were created simply for crafting purposes. Nearly every object in the game was able to be crafted, and all of the best items (outside of heroic jewelry) were completely obtained through crafting. Crafting drove the player economy, and the implementation of vendors made the universe seem a bit more real.

 

Entertainers were a truly social class that added value to the game. From creating social hubs (as everyone gathered in areas where the entertainers were performing), to providing useful buffs for PvE and PvP combat alike. Even Medics were able to provide valuable buffs, making them even more important.

 

Star Wars Galaxies was released on June 26, 2003. And for the time the graphics were rather good. Very few graphics updates were seen throughout its lifetime. Animations were lacking, effects were sporadic, and there were plenty of bugs. This caused a lot of grief in the community.

 

As far as development, there were three expansions. Jump to Light Speed introduce space combat and exploration in a truly wonderful fashion. You would mine space resources, craft ship components, and even decorate your yacht or cruiser as you would your home. You truly started to feel as though the Star Wars universe was coming alive.

 

Rage of the Wookies introduced us to Kashyyk and wealth of new PvE content. The Trials of Obi-Wan gave us Mustafar and more PvE content.

 

Star Wars Galaxies had many themepark elements outside of its sandbox nature. So much so that many players never completed all of it. There were dungeons (called heroics or instances) that were difficult even for the most seasoned players. And even when they became easy (after much practice) players found ways of trying to make them more difficult (try completing Karraga's Palace or Eternity Vault using only the Trooper class or Bounty Hunter class).

 

Galaxies had true open-world PvP...this means that PvP rewards were granted anywhere that PvP happened, and there were no locations where PvP could not, and did not, happen! PvP and PvE were integrated. PvPers took part in PvE dungeons because the rewards were the same and did not have a PvP gear/PvE gear qualification. Gear is gear (though there were augments you could buy that granted PvP specific boosts).

 

Let us look at Star Wars: The Old Republic

 

SWTOR is visually stunning. The animations and effects are truly wonderful, and the voice-overs are great. There are a few graphical bugs present, but they are not game-breaking and are barely noticeable, unless you are looking for them.

 

The story lines are really well done. Leveling and questing is not so much of a grind (though it can feel that way at end game and higher levels where it takes a long time to gain a level). The content players were given was done extremely well...as we would all expect from BioWare.

 

Crafting? It is ok. Nothing too new, just the same ol' same ol'. The greatest part of crafting is companion missions, which is all because of the companion idea. I must admit, the entire companion idea is great. I want companions in all my MMOs. However, it would have been great if we were given a bit more choice in these matters. Why can't every class be given a choice of light side/dark side companion? Why can't all companions have detailed story arcs?

 

SW:TOR is entirely themepark. There is not a single sandbox element in the entire game. It is also PvE-centric. PvE is the overriding theme to the game. PvP is a secondary attraction, similar to the space "rail" shooter we were given.

 

I left SW:TOR with the feeling of, "That was a fun game, and I quite enjoyed being able to participate in those stories with friends playing along my side." However, any future "content," or "expansion" will feel more like typical DLC for a single player game rather than building the Star Wars universe as provided in SW:TOR.

 

I left SW:G with the feeling of, "I really enjoyed my life here, and I made amazing friends. But, it is time for this game to die...hopefully to be reincarnated into the glory it could truly become."

 

 

When it comes to Star Wars, I must ask Lucas Arts the following:

 

"When will you have extracted enough money from the IP, that you might truly consider creating an IP MMO that is about maintaining a legacy. Star Wars Galaxies was a great try, but was not taken seriously enough to elicit proper development. Star Wars: The Old Republicis a great game...not a great MMO. It shows that this game was all about commercialization and profits; hence the involvement of EA.

 

Have you finnaly made enough money fron the Star Wars IP that you can seriously consider backing, funding, or developing truly epic Star Wars experience for MMO players?"

 

Bravo.

 

I made my comment before reading this, If id have read this first I wouldn't of made a comment because you said it all and a lot better than I could.

 

Well said. /Ironfist

[DorvallaCao]

I have to admit that SWG and SWTOR cannot be compared to each other cause I think they are completely different MMO's from each other. There are things I miss in SWTOR, that I had in SWG, and vice vers, for instance, player housing (with decoration) and a player towns, which made the scenery in every server deifferent. The random generated spawns for quests was a great feature, although you bassically did the same quest over and over, you always had to go to a diifferent spot, plus you could make sure quests / mission were in the same direction.

 

The Themeparks were great fun, even if some of them were bugged, but it had a fun questline), and even to get to a certain thing (like correllian destoryer runs) you had to get items plus the quest was time limited.

 

I loved the questline for the Katarn Armor (my favorite armor anyway) on Naboo.

 

Now my thing was really space, because I was mining constantly or fighting in deep space for control (bria was a tat dead on that part, but I had fun playing on Starsider with an alt). I wish Bioware came up with a sandbox idea, so you had to fly manually to a planet, and you could do everything in space, like mining, missions on the fly and just have fun.

 

So fi they could fix that, I would be happy already, and prefer to be flying in space and mine, rather then quest. on the surface

[Pirana]

There's no doubt this game has more subscriptions that SWG had, but that means little if this game isn't around to play in the near future. Debating the semantics of that issue is always amusing. From a consumers point of view, if we can't play this game because it's not around, we lose.

 

SWG had eight years, in addition there are two emulators in the works. SWG will live on for a very long time. There will not be a TOR emulator if this game should vanish.

 

Here's hoping this game continues to thrive and push on. I'm a Sci Fi guy and will continue to be. I'm not about to move onto slaying dragons.

[jarjarloves]

There's no doubt this game has more subscriptions that SWG had, but that means little if this game isn't around to play in the near future. Debating the semantics of that issue is always amusing. From a consumers point of view, if we can't play this game because it's not around, we lose.

 

SWG had eight years, in addition there are two emulators in the works. SWG will live on for a very long time. There will not be a TOR emulator if this game should vanish.

 

Here's hoping this game continues to thrive and push on. I'm a Sci Fi guy and will continue to be. I'm not about to move onto slaying dragons.

 

SWG had 8 years because of Sony's station pass. They wanted to cell a $30 pass to multiple MMOs the only way you do that is to have mutiple MMOs. If they didn't do the Station Pass the game would have been shut down long before even the NGE came out.

[Pirana]

SWG had 8 years because of Sony's station pass. They wanted to cell a $30 pass to multiple MMOs the only way you do that is to have mutiple MMOs. If they didn't do the Station Pass the game would have been shut down long before even the NGE came out.

 

No doubt it was aided by other endeavors. Again, if this game closes in the near future, the subscription debate will mean nothing.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Pirana

[Macheath]

if it was a greater game then SWTOR then why did it never even come close to the amount of players SWTOR has?

 

Also there is this.

http://rubenfield.com/?p=86

 

when a developer of the game says its bad then i'm sorry it's bad

 

Well, you're wrong of course. Completely oversimplifying the issue into "high subs = good game, low subs = bad game," is precisely BioWare's problem. They only looked at WoW, the most "successful" MMO ever, for inspiration in designing their own systems, a strategy doomed to failure from the beginning.

 

The problem is, your way of thinking is shared by most gaming companies. Subs mean everything, unfortunately. So, instead of catering to a loyal, "hardcore" fanbase that will play your game for 8 years, they cater to 10 million casual gamers who are going to leave after 6 months anyway, because when you create a WoW clone, any fans of WoW.... GO BACK TO WOW (we've only seen this trend for the past 8 years, you'd think someone in BioWare would have noticed.)

 

There's a difference between fans who say "this game is a game I play," and fans who say, "This game is THE game I play." The former will leave you in bunches for Diablo 3, the latest Halo/Battlefield, or for a free-to-play MMO like Guild Wars 2. They don't place your game at the top of their gaming hierarchy. Cater to the latter, the hardcore fans of both the genre and the IP, and you'll have 8 years of moderate success before the next Star Wars MMO comes along. That's the lesson BioWare failed to learn.

 

There's two basic types of casual MMO gamers. The ones who like WoW, and the ones who don't. You can't please either by making WoW in space. One group will see your WoW clone for what it is, and they won't like it because they don't like WoW. The other group of casual gamers will see your game for what it is, like it, but realize that WoW has a decade worth of end-game content which you can't possibly compete with (not to mention a bunch of friends and guild mates they've known for years who didn't come to ToR with them), and go back to WoW. That's the reality of the casual gamer. It's truly foolish to try to emulate WoW in order to attract casual gamers, because the only casual MMO gamers that aren't playing WoW right now are looking for something DIFFERENT. Combine those with the hardcore gamers looking for a new MMO, who will almost unanimously tell you they are also looking for something different than WoW, and you have yourself a solid playerbase, all who would have appreciated a game that wasn't a WoW clone.

 

-Macheath.

[jarjarloves]

No doubt it was aided by other endeavors. Again, if this game closes in the near future, the subscription debate will mean nothing.

 

if it closes anytime soon it's because EA doesn't know how to run an MMO. The subscription numbers would show that it has a larger following.

 

SWG was a niche game and with any niche game it has a very small but very vocal, passionete and devoted following.

 

the SWG fans talk about SWG like it was the greatest game ever made. Which of course it wasn't. They like to ignore the VAST amounts of bugs it had as well as the fact that there was nothing to do and barely any content at all. The reason they like it is because it was a bit of a sandbox set in the SW universe which allowed them to RP to their hearts content.

[Crifa]

if it closes anytime soon it's because EA doesn't know how to run an MMO. The subscription numbers would show that it has a larger following.

 

SWG was a niche game and with any niche game it has a very small but very vocal, passionete and devoted following.

 

the SWG fans talk about SWG like it was the greatest game ever made. Which of course it wasn't. They like to ignore the VAST amounts of bugs it had as well as the fact that there was nothing to do and barely any content at all. The reason they like it is because it was a bit of a sandbox set in the SW universe which allowed them to RP to their hearts content.

The fact that you think most SWG players were RP's tells me you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

[Fyurii]

Well, you're wrong of course. Completely oversimplifying the issue into "high subs = good game, low subs = bad game," is precisely BioWare's problem. They only looked at WoW, the most "successful" MMO ever, for inspiration in designing their own systems, a strategy doomed to failure from the beginning.

 

The problem is, your way of thinking is shared by most gaming companies. Subs mean everything, unfortunately.

 

They mean the most actually.

More subs = more money = longer lifespan for the game and more post-release support and content development.

SWG failed in that respect, but because it wasn't "allowed" to succeed. SOE released the game far too early.

 

What made SWG last as long as it did was a combination of the community, and it being just profitable enough to keep going whilst TOR was in development.

It had a relatively healthy mix of hardcore and casual people playing the game, and they weren't all Star Wars fans.

On the whole its community was better because the majority of them weren't all acting like selfish *****s. The community took a blow with the CU, and a haymaker with the NGE, but recovered enough to stabilise.

Unfortunately the game's reputation didn't recover, not that it had a good reputation to begin with, due to it generally being known as a buggy and lack lustre game. Of course, selfish and embittered fans who couldn't (and still can't) accept that their beloved game had to change in order to survive, made things even worse. Always bad mouthing the game and still to this day denying how badly it was hemorrhaging subs by clinging to its most well known peak subscriber numbers, but ignoring how quickly that changed.

 

Unfortunately, the changes made were not the changes it needed.

I thought the Professions needed trimming down, not butchering with a cleaver.

Crafting itself was fine, but the resource system needing touching up.

Player cities were a fine idea, but the implimentation was ridiculously poorly thought out, leading to the now legendary ghost towns (and a negative impact upon the game itself since not everyone playing had high speed broadband or PCs designed around gaming.. Not to forget nothing being done about them for years either...

The increase in speed was ridiculous and over the top.

 

I'd write an essay alone on what was right and wrong with SWG pre-NGE and post-NGE, an I can't be arsed doing that kind of thing again.

 

So, instead of catering to a loyal, "hardcore" fanbase that will play your game for 8 years, they cater to 10 million casual gamers who are going to leave after 6 months anyway, because when you create a WoW clone, any fans of WoW.... GO BACK TO WOW (we've only seen this trend for the past 8 years, you'd think someone in BioWare would have noticed.)

 

More players = more money = more support for the game and more content and expansion of the game itself which benefits us, the players.

A "hardcore" fanbase that is in such small numbers as to result in less profitability is a bleak thing for a game, moreso for an MMO.

Remember, money is key to a game's survival and its future.

 

There's a difference between fans who say "this game is a game I play," and fans who say, "This game is THE game I play." The former will leave you in bunches for Diablo 3, the latest Halo/Battlefield, or for a free-to-play MMO like Guild Wars 2.

 

On a personal note, I can't understand the mentality of playing a single game but treating it like's a job or life.

Any game from a gamer's point of view is for fun, entertainment and escapism. Making it a focus point of your life is just ridiculous, be it an MMO or not.

 

They don't place your game at the top of their gaming hierarchy. Cater to the latter, the hardcore fans of both the genre and the IP, and you'll have 8 years of moderate success before the next Star Wars MMO comes along. That's the lesson BioWare failed to learn.

 

Hardcore fans are a big part of the problem with both MMOs, and in particular Star Wars. They are where the elitist snobs amongs the fans are born and develop, treating non-hardcore fans with disadain and derision.

The game itself and the genre then start to earn a negative reputation, because of the a-holes.

 

If Blizzard had created WoW with the hardcore Warcraft fans in mind, it would never have grown to be "the King".

 

There's two basic types of casual MMO gamers. The ones who like WoW, and the ones who don't. You can't please either by making WoW in space. One group will see your WoW clone for what it is, and they won't like it because they don't like WoW. The other group of casual gamers will see your game for what it is, like it, but realize that WoW has a decade worth of end-game content which you can't possibly compete with (not to mention a bunch of friends and guild mates they've known for years who didn't come to ToR with them), and go back to WoW. That's the reality of the casual gamer. It's truly foolish to try to emulate WoW in order to attract casual gamers, because the only casual MMO gamers that aren't playing WoW right now are looking for something DIFFERENT. Combine those with the hardcore gamers looking for a new MMO, who will almost unanimously tell you they are also looking for something different than WoW, and you have yourself a solid playerbase, all who would have appreciated a game that wasn't a WoW clone.

 

-Macheath.

 

Serious question. Why are you here?

Why don't players like yourself just leave the game alone when you realise that it's not what you're looking for?

Edited September 12, 2012 by Fyurii

[LordNyxus]

if it was a greater game then SWTOR then why did it never even come close to the amount of players SWTOR has?

 

Also there is this.

http://rubenfield.com/?p=86

 

when a developer of the game says its bad then i'm sorry it's bad

 

It seems that today players gauge an MMO's success and merit by the number of subscriptions it maintains. With subscription MMOs it it easy to make this mistake. However, when referring to games that were in released during the foundational period of the MMO genre comparing subscription rates is simply ludicrous. Let me start this article with a history lesson.

 

The very first graphical MMORPG was Neverwinter Nights, released in 1991. It was a collaborative project between AOL (America On-Line), Stormfront Studios, and TSR (later purchased by Wizards of the Coast). It ran from 1991 to 1997 and began with 50 players in 1991, to 500 players in 1995, and finished in 1997 with 115,000 players.

 

Meridian59 and Ultima Online are two of the most well known "early" MMORPG games. Meridian59, developed by Archetype Interactive, was released in 1996, by 3DO with nearly 25,000 subscribers. 3DO shut the game down in 2000, but Near Death Studio re-released the game in 2002. Meridian59 boasted a whopping 156,000 subscribers and is still running today, even though Near Death Studios closed its doors in 2010.

 

Ultima Online was released in 1997 by Origin Systems. It reached a 100,000 subscriber base within six months of its release, and peaked at 250,000 subscribers. Ultima is still alive today, and maintains over 50,000 active subscriptions.

 

NOTE* Aside from Never Winter Nights, there are numerous other MMORPGs that were released before both Meridian59 and Ultima Online. Numerous other graphical MMORPGs came out after Neverwinter Nights trying to capture some of the success it had. The Shadow of Yserbius ran from 1992 to 1996 and was one of the more popular ones. Games like Nexus: Kingdom of the Winds (1996) and The Realm Online (1996) were in public beta before Ultima and Meridian. It’s also worth mentioning that Richard Gariott, the man behind Ultima Online and the Ultima Franchise, was the first person to actually ‘coin’ the term “MMORPG”. Both Ultima Online and Meridian59 have survived the test of time, as they’re both still running. On a side note the first few free to play MMORPGs were Tibia, RuneScape and MapleStory. Tibia was actually released before in Ultima Online in 1997, yet Ultima and Meridian59 usually get the credit for being the first MMORPGs.

 

Both Everquest, developed by Sony's 989 Studios, and Asheron's Call, developed by Turbine Entertainment, were released in 1999. Everquest reached 225,000 subscriptions in its first year and 450,000 subscriptions by 2003. Asheron's Call never saw the success that Ultima Online and Everquest had. It 80,000 subscribers by the end of its first year, 90,000 subscriptions after its second year, and peaked in 2002 with 120,000 subscriptions.

 

Dark Age of Camelot was relaed in 2001 and launched with 250,000 subscibers and would never gain more. The game started facing declines in subs with competition from competing MMOs (SWG, WoW, etc.) However, the game is still running today, though Mythic indicates that there are less than 10,000 accounts.

 

One of the most popular RPG franchises in the world released its MMO in 2002. Final Fantasy XI Online, developed by Square (later Square Enix), It saw 200,000 subscribers immediately, and as of 2008 had 500,000 active subscription. NOTE* This MMO was the predominant MMO in Japan, which held more than 350,000 active subscriptions.

 

Finally we reach Star Wars Galaxies. Released on June 6, 2003, by Sony Online Entertainment (developed by Verant Interactive), and immediately saw 120,000 subscriptions. That number grew to 260,000 within its first 18 months, however, a new game was released During this period.

 

On November 23, 2004, Blizzard Entertainment release World Of Warcraft, and MMO based upon its successful Warcraft franchise. At release, World of Warcraft broke subscription records at 420,000 subscribers. This revealation took the gaming world by storm, and WoW broke 1 million subscriptions within 6 months. By the end of its first year, WoW held a staggering 5.6 million global subscriptions.

 

With the explosion happening with WoW, and with the announcement of the NGE, Star Wars Galaxies saw a rapid decline in subscriptions. To be fair, all MMOs, except WoW, also suffered subscription loss. However, this was something that SWG would never recover from. Subscriptions fell to around 110,000 subscribers in 2006 and then to less than 20,000 in 2010.

 

WoW sparked an MMO craze, in which dozens of companies began attempting to cash in on the MMO market. Due to WoW's quick success, most games have tried to emulate WoW, with very little success.

 

It is imperative that I mention that the Korean market had an MMO which crossed the 1 million subscriber base before any other game. The Lineage franchise, released in 1998 by NCsoft, boasted more than 3 million subscribers, though more than 95% of those subscriptions were Korean. Lineage 2, released in 2003, saw 2 million subscribers after its first year, though subscriptions dropped steadily in the following years.

 

Since the release of WoW, only a few games have had more than one million subscribers. Among these are Runescape, released in 2001 by Jagex Game Studios (Guiness World Record holder for largest free MMORPG with more than 10 million active accounts and 200 million accounts created), Aion, released in 2009 by NCsoft, Rift, released in 2011 by Trion Worlds, Star Wars the Old Republic, released in 2011 by BioWare and EA, and Guild Wars 2, released in 2012 by ArenaNet. This does not take into account many of the F2P MMORPG games out there or games which have not been released globally.

 

No game will ever see the explosion that WoW held. You cannot compare games to WoW's success nor can you judge past games by today's standards. Statistically speaking, 10 years ago any game that could generate more than 100,000 subscribers was considered successful. Today, game success generally requires about 500,000 subscriptions, but requires maintaining more than 100,000. A games success cannot be judged by first year numbers since hype and advertising can easily put a game over 700,000. If a game is successful consider subscription numbers at launch and compare to subscription numbers one year later. A good game will maintain or increase subscription after a year, and unsuccessful games will drastically drop subscriptions. These games will either become niche games (games that will last over 5 years) or failures (those who close all servers within 5 years).

 

By the way, the developer for Star Wars Galaxies did not say that the game was a failure. He actually said, and I quote:

 

"But we *********** launched a gosh darned game. We launched a SECOND

succesful MMO (post-uo). We made a *********** amazing space game using

the same *********** game engine, integrated action combat, interior

spaceships and in 9 MOTHER****ING MONTHS, all while running a

succesful, cash positive product."

 

 

*** As a side note***

 

Star Wars Galaxies began development in 2000 with a budget of 3.8 million dollars. Estimated development cost was reported to be approximately 4.4 million, due to Sony's increased budget for server management. Upon release, Star Wars Galaxies sold 300,000 box copies at $30.00 each. Box sales completely covered development costs with profit and subscriptions would fund overhead and future development costs for the rest of the SWG lifecycle. In essence, SWG was profitable since day 1!

 

World of Warcraft Cost approximately 63 million to develop. That is only the original game and does not include expansions. SWG already had the first expansion completed before launch.

 

Had SWG been granted even a third of the development budget that WoW had, about 20 million, would the game have been better?

 

If SWG was re-created today with TOR's budget of 150 million, how do you think it would fare?

Edited September 12, 2012 by LordNyxus

[Pirana]

if it closes anytime soon it's because EA doesn't know how to run an MMO. The subscription numbers would show that it has a larger following.

SWG was a niche game and with any niche game it has a very small but very vocal, passionete and devoted following.

 

the SWG fans talk about SWG like it was the greatest game ever made. Which of course it wasn't. They like to ignore the VAST amounts of bugs it had as well as the fact that there was nothing to do and barely any content at all. The reason they like it is because it was a bit of a sandbox set in the SW universe which allowed them to RP to their hearts content.

 

That would resolve the vs debate. While most would move onto other endeavors, the SWG players will still have the option to play Galaxies.

[ItsToof]

SWG at least had better space combat, and crafting, and a better faction system, and (during its height) felt more like a living world (or galaxy as it may be), Bounty Hunters actually can take bounties, Teras Kasi, world pvp that worked.

 

I do like TOR, but it just feels empty, there's too much missing.

[SentinelThain]

There is no comparison.I played SWG for 7 years and would still be playing it if LA had not gave it the shaft.I've played TOR since beta and am completely bored with it.

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed the stories and the graphics of this but there's just not enough stuff in this game to do after 50.

In SWG there was much much more to do and you where not restricted.Space was way better,pvp was better,crafting,beast master,heroics,gear looked better and with ap tab,social aspect was much better,player housing.I could go on and on but this game is nowhere near as good as SWG unless they drop the themepark .

The community in TOR is just terribad compared to SWG .Too many whining entitled crying sniffeling little ***** in this game tbh.

[Jak-Jak]

There is no comparison.I played SWG for 7 years and would still be playing it if LA had not gave it the shaft.I've played TOR since beta and am completely bored with it.

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed the stories and the graphics of this but there's just not enough stuff in this game to do after 50.

In SWG there was much much more to do and you where not restricted.Space was way better,pvp was better,crafting,beast master,heroics,gear looked better and with ap tab,social aspect was much better,player housing.I could go on and on but this game is nowhere near as good as SWG unless they drop the themepark .

The community in TOR is just terribad compared to SWG .Too many whining entitled crying sniffeling little ***** in this game tbh.

 

The community really is the biggest weakness for this game as opposed to SWG. There was an earnestness about the community as Star Wars fans that feels lost here, I guess that can be attributed to the lack of content you mentioned driving away past SWG players like ourselves. I just think that when Star Wars fans aren't given "room to play" so-to-speak, they move onto games more condusive to that... like the EMU.

[Bird_of_Thunder]

while i like SWTOR, SWG was better

[kirorx]

Regardless of your answers, You are either currently playing SWTOR or untill recently have been paying to play SWTOR.

 

We love to diss on SWTOR, yet we also love to log in. Weird.

Edited September 17, 2012 by kirorx

[Jak-Jak]

Regardless of your answers, You are either currently playing SWTOR or untill recently have been paying to play SWTOR.

 

We love to diss on SWTOR, yet we also love to log in. Weird.

 

Love is kind of a strong word.