So when full customization arrives, what happens in PvP?

[supafreak]

Who cares if you cant tell what gear they are wearing. If you are good it shoudlnt matter. Man up and fight the enemy whoever it may be an stop complaining u cant farm noobs for easy kills. This whole OP is really sad. For shame.

[chton]

Yes. Question is, why aren't you? This isn't a first person shooter. Not everyone is walking into content with equal stats. And since stats matter, and are generally linked to appearance in theme parks, looks can kill.

 

 

 

One item =/= a set.

 

That's right I keep thinking this PVP is based on skill but that is really only for FPS as MMO PVP is really about gear and some people can't even fight some one unless they know they have better gear. I guess you just run from some one with better gear?

[Grimyd]

I don't understand what the problem is. You can see exactly how much health an opponent has. Much better indication on how geared someone is than just looking at what they have on.

[unicornfive]

Once all oranges are essentially fair game for being the 'gear of choice' for your average high-ranking PvPer, how are we supposed to determine where to shoot, so to speak?

 

 

1st) You just found the best solution to the problem with ppl that just ding 50

 

Unless u like to get tunnel focused and chain killed on you alt that just dinged 50....

 

2nd ) when u have a healer healing your target right in font of you, what would u attack?

when u have someone with ball on huttball, who u gonna attack

when u see someone running to a base in alderan or planting a bomb on voidstar, u gonna focus on the low geared instead???? I dont think so.. And if u say yes, you just answered to my question of how better geared ppl manage to lose really fast from low geared ones in wz...

 

3rd ) Im pretty sure when u target someone, u can see their hp and u can determine if they are either tank or dps or some low geared...

Personaly i never bothered to learn how high and low lvl sets look in game, so i can determine if my target is high geared or low geared....

 

Now the benefits from moding gear...

 

a ) the low lvl gear won be useless

b ) all ppl wont look the same....at last...

c ) being a sith without plain red lightsabers annoys me greatly (reffering to purple and black-red)....i dont know about other star wars fans...

d ) lvl 50 epic gear is still modable.....ppl that like it, they can keep it on them

[Aluo]

Or you could just mouse over the guy and see what class he is.

 

Then use your brain.... and remember.

 

Sorry I was making sense there wasn't I.

 

I have never used gear as a reflection of a players skill or class.

 

I use the animations of the players moves to recall what class they are, and i recall their name to know if they are an easy kill or not.

 

Stop just looking at things and actually LOOK at things.

[Vincedaddy]

It's an interesting question, and I remember when treads like this were all over the wow forums before transmogrification came out. Honestly it doesn't really have as much of an impact as you would think, just makes you focus instead on which "class" is squishy. Since almost everyone has a champ equivalent you have to target based on the situation (I.e. healer, the class you hard counter, group Zerg targets etc.). Finding the under geared squishy usually happens a couple minutes into the match so after that you can farm them for the free kill in the remainder of the time left. I doubt this will make too much of a difference for many, but then again with the level of durptitude on these forums nothing will cease to amaze me.

[KangasCollective]

Lord of the Rings Online solves tbis by always showing your actual gear in the pvo field.

 

So at least one ither major mmo takes the OP very seriously.

 

It is extremely useful to see the actual gear worn because it tells you a lot.

Edited February 25, 2012 by KangasCollective

[ShizuXIII]

There was this awesome open-pvp game, published some 10 years ago, and people keep saying it was the best pvp mmorpg ever.

 

In that game there was 3 factions, each with different classes and races.

On that awesome game all you knew watching an enemy was his realm rank and his race.

"Kobold Isen Herra"

"Celt Thunderer"

"Saracen Unicorn Knight"

 

By selecting an enemy, you knew his name.

No class, no spec, nothing.

You actually had to watch him and figure his class.

Oh, and no casting bars or target's target.

So you really had to watch the enemies to quickly identify the healers and the dangerous casters.

That was one of the very first skill a pvper had to learn to be any good: watch and quickly identify *** everyone in the enemy group is doing.

 

 

But here they already tell you the class.

You can see from the interface what he's casting (lolautoface, you don't even have to LOOK at an enemy).

And you'll soon be able to see your target's target.

 

And you think random outfits will be a SERIOUS issue?

Then of course people are going to whine about gear making up for 90% of the outcome.

How can you filter the good from the bad if the game is telling you EVERYTHING?

 

Mmorpgs aren't about uber-reflexes and aiming.

They used to be about awareness and teamwork, but apparently last-gen gamers like the OP can't even identify strong enemies without the game spoonfeding it.

[Swarna]

I think the only time you should even care about this is in rated games. And EVERYONE'S gonna be geared in those anyways.

[Mongrul]

you cant inspect enemy players

[ErnieVega]

I dont really see where the issue is... When the game came out people didnt know gear on sight... whenever expansions come out there will be new waves of gear recreating the same problem.

 

I think that this will require players to be more aware of their enemies on the field. You may have to watch to see who is dangerous and who is useless. I dont think that that is a bad thing though. Its too easy to just pick out the guy in the best gear and assume hes good (which is a dangerous assumptions anyway).

 

I think i would prefer that people are remembering names, and watching playstyles, and revising tactics based on opposing tactics... not based on how the enemy looks.

[RazielHex]

If you need to look at gear to decide who to kill, you're a bad player.

 

You should be looking at classes and having a mental priority list and focusing them down in order of healer, damage, tanks.

[Batslav]

such thing was implemented in rift didnt have any problems in pvp

[Korevas]

I was always in favor of an appearance tab.

 

Me too, and it saddens me to see how much fail they actually can impart on that craptastic mod system in the future. The designer who is responsible for that idea should really get lynched by a raging mob for that. The way to go for this game would have been complete unmoddable gear on character and then an appearance tab over it, which could have even allow different weapon types, so I could actually have my single saber marauder (but I digress).

 

This would have had the added perk of being able to simply switch it off on demand for every player individually, so you could have a toggle to display appearance gear/true gear on everybody/yourself in pvp/pve.

 

There is absolutely no way in hell the current system does anything better then that, and in 1.2 they actually found a way to make it worse by allowing orange crafted gear to crit augment slots, which means everybody who wears pvp now will wear cheap critted low oranges for a while, until they change it again...

Edited February 25, 2012 by Korevas

[Mongrul]

If you need to look at gear to decide who to kill, you're a bad player.

 

You should be looking at classes and having a mental priority list and focusing them down in order of healer, damage, tanks.

 

your rules will get you killed as well

[Mofotrey]

Uuuuuhhhhhh........ New 50's have like 12,000 HP... Fully geared 50's have anywhere from 16,500 to 19,000. It's kind of really obvious who has good gear and who has crappy gear. I never look at the visuals of their gear, I look at their HP. It doesn't matter if they have the level 40 PVP set on, if you look at their health bar when you click on then and they have 18,000 points, OBVIOUSLY they're not a brand new level 50. If you look at their title and it says "War Hero", OBVIOUSLY they're not a new 50.

 

I don't even understand how this could be construed as an issue. You can't hide your health total, therefore you can't hide the fact that you're geared or not.

[Jamuro]

for all lightsaber wearing classes it should still be easy to see who is what ... anyways why would you want to pick on poor low geared people?^^

 

And after the first hit you should see on the damage if he is in greens or full bm

[Gwal]

I actually strongly dislike the amount of information this game gives people about other players. It's the whole PvE carebear approach to PvP why bother learning who is good and who is bad when you can see how "good" they are based on what clothes they are wearing. Oh that guy has 12k HP, I can 3 shot him! Oh that guy has 22k HP best not get targeted by him! I prefered the approach in old games where it was like. It's Kadoo, Run away! it's illskillz aka freekillz, don't let them escape!

 

All this carebear gear>skill and information given about enemies is just for PvE monkeys. I remember as a fresh 50 someone wanted to duel same class a quick mouse over their HP told me enough to know I would get 3 shotted, I duelled them and got 3 shotted.

 

The pvp in this game is like.... They've tried to give everyone arms length pvp completely impersonal. Who is the best/dangerous person in your opposing faction?

 

I understand for the carebears that don't like personal conflict this is great because they can call themselves hardcore when to the opposing faction they are just a slightly harder than normal mob to grind.

[Kurfer]

PvP shouldn't be about being scared of the guy who has good gear and thus picking on n00bs.

 

I welcome the change, I am sick of PvP heroes that only pick fights with weak targets.

[RazielHex]

your rules will get you killed as well

 

Everybody dies.

 

Not everybody truly lives.

[oblongship]

I just think the whole 'one weapon per class' thing is a bit silly. Nobody has struggled over in WoW for the past 8 years because warriors can equip like 10 different classes of weapons, and single wield, and dual-wield, and sword-and-board.

 

But, as I said, the bigger issue here is what these changes are going to do to PvP in the immediate future. How the heck am I supposed to tell an entry-level 50 from some guy who has been grinding gear at the cap since the beginning of January? And, if the goal is to introduce such a high level of ambiguity, what is the point? How is this going to accomplish anything other than to make PvP less enjoyable?

 

To be frank, I feel like I am about to be griefed by this company on a massive scale.

 

How about you stop looking at armor to determine a fight and start looking at your own skill...

[AKfourtyseven]

 

Anyway... I'm just worried, is all. I understand that we're getting what we asked for, and I appreciate the gesture. But as a hardcore PvPer (I won't touch PvE in this game with a 10-foot pole) what are your plans to help us identify the weak from the strong? Or is this capacity being removed, in which case PvP becomes an absolute, dice-roll crapshoot (which I would argue removes a huge element to how we understand and manage gear-based PvP)?

 

Is this your first MMO (or 2nd with WoW being the first)?

 

You dont need neon signs to tell you who to target. You can tell certain force using classes by the animation stance they use, you can tell others by what toggle they have on and you can tell everyone if you watch them for a few seconds to observe their moves.

 

A "hardcore" Pvper should have no issues with this.

 

Im glad they are removing the silly 'everyone must look the same so people can figure stuff out' rubbish. I mean, how did we manage to PvP in SWG where people could stack anything with their 250 skill points?...

 

Yeah, we did it just fine.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I just think the whole 'one weapon per class' thing is a bit silly. Nobody has struggled over in WoW for the past 8 years because warriors can equip like 10 different classes of weapons, and single wield, and dual-wield, and sword-and-board.

 

But, as I said, the bigger issue here is what these changes are going to do to PvP in the immediate future. How the heck am I supposed to tell an entry-level 50 from some guy who has been grinding gear at the cap since the beginning of January? And, if the goal is to introduce such a high level of ambiguity, what is the point? How is this going to accomplish anything other than to make PvP less enjoyable?

 

To be frank, I feel like I am about to be griefed by this company on a massive scale.

 

I'm not trying to criticize you but it seems like you are complaining because you won't know which targets are weaker and are easy to kill. This sounds like you go out of your way to go after the weaker targets and effectively grief them. You shouldn't need to tell an entry level 50 from a guy in full gear, you shouldn't be able to go, "Hey that guy is a newb! Lemme whack him for free kills!"

[Cebby]

I like the ability to mask gear, rated wz's included.

 

Everything should be about skill, and having to figuire out a team motives and which toons are a threat is par tof the fun. Dropping it down to a visible calculation lessens it for me.

[Manigma]

Look at their class and hp > problem solved