The shied has a debuff for 20sec (17with pvp gear pieces to support it) and pops vs low geared guys within 2-3 hit and vs equal geared dps even in 1-2 max. Plus it is the only defensiv skill sorcs have, that is independent from positioning runoff possibilities. Sorcs have it hard as it is with surviving in the 50 bracket without the shied the class would be even more of a bad joke So why are you complaining again?

Bichem will for heavy stim users probably still be the best choice ... simply because the output of the non reusable stuff is horrible and not worth your time and money. 1.2 makes other proffessions more viable tough so it's up to you. But for heavy pvp i still would say biochem or cyber thingy ... the one with the grenades.

As if marauders would need more love lol They are already the most powerfull dps class in the game and with 1.2 while not getting that much better, they get easier to play and in comparison to the crushing changes to a lot of the other classes marauders will be the new fotm. There is a reason, why everyone and their mom are currently rerolling a marauder

Make bonus heal amount scale the same way as dps and we can talk about removing the +heal part of expertise until then it is needed ... simply because dps gets higher and higher with much less points in your primary stat and power/tech power than heals do. Simple as that

I am quite sure that it wont change anything but here my thoughts on expertise and why i think the heal increase is needed. First all healing abilities get a -30% debuff in pvp. K that's a well known thing ... and needed since the heals are balanced for pve(have to be) Secondly and most important healing scales horribly compared to damage ... no matter how much power/tech power you try to stack it will always be at least 1/3rd below your additional damage. That's even for people with full healer sets and swaped mods and so on. So, with the next pvp tier on the way ... damage numbers will go up quite a bit, but bonus healing will always stay below and the gap between those two will increase even more. Without expertise +X to healing you will render healing quite fast useless that way. Plus 1.2 decreases the healing output of many heal classes and especially of the sorc, plus makes it easier to interrupt (again sorc but not only) I don't know if they change the bonus healing output but i doubt it and therefore the heal expertise bonus gets lowered thanks to that. On paper it looks nice but when you have a look at the mechanics that affect your heals you will see that dps will always benefit more from each point put into the main stat and tech/power stats than heals do. It negates itself ... probably not to 100% but for quite a bit

Any wz against a non pug team is difficould Pull certainly needs adjustments but as long as your team isn't stupid and defends the catwalks it is not a problem. But ture if you are in a pug you are screwed but let's face it pug vs a team that plays together you are screwed no matter how many sorcs. It doesn't even take ts or sorcs to own hutball with a game that has a routine in pvp. So definitly not worth to cry and rage about

And after a few missions you cant get new ones ... so this one isnt working

This might be a troll but he is right in a way ... The survivability of sorcs just sucks ... ok in hutball sorc == god mode but in every other warzone most of the "utility" a sorc has is rather pointless and wont get you out of trouble. I am not talking about people fighting in greens and such ... but once all in a warzone have at least champ gear their damage output is just way to high for a sorc to do ****. Just look at the number of deaths ... no other ranged class gets killed that often in a match. On paper it looks nice but in actuall pvp (not counting mass zerging on ilum) a sorc that gets attacked by someone goes down. Sorcs just don't have the damage in single combat (all the nice numbers come from aoes) and like i said before, except in huball there is just no good way to break line of sight fast enough to still be able to contribute to the goals of your team. right now a fight in equal gear (vs another dps spec) ends nearly always in the death of a sorc. I would glardly give away my "so awesome" utility for some survivability. You just have to look at the numbers that pop up in a battle vs a sorc ... vs a sorc you always have the highest hits you will ever get (thx to light armor and a bubble that hardly scales at all) So while sorcs were imba when people had "crappy" gear (pre lvl50 bracket or the first weeks/month in lvl50 wz) now they just go down within seconds. I know people won't believe it and it will take a few months before the omg sorcs are imba fear is gone, but sorcs (who aren't ignored) are realy no thread to anyone.

Soc op threads ... and i thought they were finaly gone It's true in low lvl brackets sorcs own ... big time ... they get their skills way earlier than most other classes and the bubble can take a lot of pressure of the sorc in those brackets. But in lvl50 brackets vs people in pvp gear sorcs suck .... big time ... squishy as hell ... dead even in healer spec faster than any other class.... it's kite for your live ... and that only works for hutball. The reason for this is, that pvp gear (lets assume equal gear so expertise doesn't matter) increases the damage output (as weird as it may sound, with a few rataka pieces it's even more so) but the sorcs defensive abilites don't scale at the same rate. While in low lvl pvp your bubble was able to take a few hits, in lvl50 wz with equal gear it absorbs most of the time only one or sometimes two damage skills. Plus the sorcs single target damage is probably the worst in the whole game (for dps specs). All the shiny high numbers at the end of a wz come from aoe spells. So if bound in a fight with a single enemy attacking ... sorcs lose the damage race most of the times (against a skilled player).

quit complaining about sorcs they are the class that goes down in pvp the fastest, once the enemies are geared in champ and above. The Damage output simply goes higher and higher, while the bubble gets more and more useless. Even sorc healers are quite easy to kill ... and that with the force bending bug in place. Right now sorcs die in every 1on1 (except against some poor agent/smuggler specs) It's ture, they rock in lvl1-49 brackets and vs people who don't have full champ set, but once that tier is reached (which most people have in lvl50 wz's) they die within seconds.

And with only 4 Medals beeing worth anything ... your problem is exactly what?

Sorc/Sage Damage comes all from aoe damage abilities ... so in a 1on1 it's almost everytime hopeless on the sorc side. And healer specced sorc/sages are the easiest to kill healers in the game right now (again lvl50 bracket and similar gear) There definitly is a need for some changes. Take aoe damage output a bit back and give us a bit more serious single target stuff and please please a bit more survivability. Other than in Hutball, where you can run off quite good, sorcs are just canon fodder and die much much faster than any other class but since the forum population seems only to look at the damage chart at the end, sorcs probably will never get some helpfull changes

but its more damage

WIth the force bending bug it was 2 rataka mystic pieces a must have resurgence until force surge procs and then big heal as follow up. THe pvp mystic set is ok ... 2 pieces but not more, since bubble is your oh **** i need the extra second to put a heal trough skill. stalker set definitly not better than those 2 in combo

I like it ... but hope that it's only a swap between animations and not actually allows you to buy force choke for example I ll definitly start to grind my alts and dailies again

WTB more hutball rage threads and less sorc rage ... honestly sorc imba mode is only in hutball and even there only vs pugs

well there is no game with no stuns and stuns below 2sec. In a game with 1.5 sec gbc (ok alacrity can help a bit) such stuns would be pointless. While i agree that there is a bit much cc in this game, without it it would be a pointless zergfest with no thinking (even less than now)

I hope it has less obstacles / ramps than hutball ... otherwise sorcs will get hit by a new flame qq wave again^^

I actually expect sorcs to be avoided in rated warzones (except if you can pick hutball for every game). A non pug team won't give you the change to make full use of your aoe abilies (and thats where the damage of a sorc comes from) or will have experienced enough healers, that know who the sorc is actually targeting and simply remove the dots from them. (bam damage gone) As for sorc healer, since they are the squishiest and after the force bending fix won't be able to heal more than other healers they won't be favoured either. Simply because in a non pug a healer will get focused. A sorc focused by lets go straight to the worst case, a good marauder can't do **** All heals are interruptable and 70%-80% will be interrupted by the marauder (if more than one guy hit the sorc, even more) While a bh/trooper healer can continue his healing and wait for his buddies to kill the dps that went for the healer, a sorc has to run and try to get a few seconds away to get a heal trough. If you play with more than one healer, trooper (i know i have an issue with htem^^) get even more effective, since bubble or not, in a fight that isn't finished withing the first 30sec mitigation of heavy armor is better than the bubble. Even if the sorc was prepared and can pop another bubble, it's again a gbc wasted, force spend and no help for the team. I know this will cause another rage wave of people who only see the skill tree and go all greedy and emo on the class but sorcs look nice on paper but only on the paper. Vs pugs and people who don't play coordinated sorcs are awesome and much fun ... farmind cuddling enemies and getting nice dps on the chart at the end sadly doesn't actually help in a rated warzone where winning is >> than medals or high numbers with little effect. I realy hope someone reads all this text

Ah well lets try it again... Force lightning spam: Force lightnings damage (even with the madness skills) is far below any other spammed attack (for example look at tracer missiles damage output) The damage doesn't come from force lightning itself but from the wrath proc -> insta chainlightning or dot Bubble: The shield is 3,3 k damage absorb at its best (3,4-3,5 in battlemaster with switched mods) It takes the full damage has no mitigation and is destroyed (even after surge nerf) within 2 hits, on a good crit even sometimes with one. WHile the bubble placed on other classes can ruin your day, a sorc in light armor will still go down faster than most other dps classes (agents are a bit at a disadvantage here but there are already plenty threads about them needing a boost) Force Speed: 2 sec of speed ... that is contrary to comon believe not enough to get 30m away from anyone. This ability would be laughable and noone would complain about it, if it wasn't for stupid hutball and the ability to use it while carrying the ball. So yeah ... if a sorc manages to get away from you wihtin 2 sec of faster runseed, you were positioned wrong or again are an agent. Bottom of the tree stuff: Lol see point Force lightning spam. Force bending on the other hand is a real issue, since with some luck 2 fastened big heals can (only if the crit) bring you back from close death to a stable condition that allows you to continue dps for a bit. BUT this issue is already getting fixed with 1.1.5 so lets try to endure it for now ok? Ima Healers: Full specced sorc healers can outheal atm other healers a bit, thx to the force bending bug. Once that is gone, you will see them heal probably even less than most other heal specced classes. And in contrary to for example bh healers, you can interrupt all sorc heals (except the hot, which by itself doesn't do much) A sorc healer is the squishiest healer in the game and once under pressure can't even kite well, because of the need to constantly heal yourself (therefore stand still during the cast) You will never be able to reach as high damage output vs any class other than a sorc. So yeah, once force bending is fixed sorc healers are in serious trouble In general to utility: Like the 10000th time mentioned by several people ... most of the sorc utility is only realy usefull except in huball ... and that's a design flaw of the warzone, not the class. In no other warzone 2 sec of speed will get you into safty or complete an objective. In no other warzone a knockback will put the enemies away from you as long as in hutball. In no other warzone a 4sec followed by a slow will help you to break line of sight and get away.

Lol A good played marauder kills a sorc ... easy ... especially healing specced sorcs. You migh be able to win the dps race every now and then vs a marauder if you are hybrid specced but only when he starts with a disadvantage or doesn't make full use of his nasty interrupts. Otherwise you realy realy have to be lucky with your procs to get him down fast enough. But it's true ... there are quite many very bad marauders in this game ... it's one of the classes that actually require the player to think a bit and not just blindly smash the default rotation of skills.

perma knockdown and seeth lock can be broken by double hitting escape a few times. works 99% of the time

I agree with you ... tough some of the cc nerfs you suggest are a bit harsh. Most of the problems with sorcs comes from hutball. Don't allow force speed (or any speed increase), self healing (other than stims), friendly pulls and leaping for the ball carrier. This would also force a more intense teamplay ... since passing will be needed even more. For the part with the topmost damage ... well that depends on the view ... (aoe vs single target damage) but ok that's something else. For the healing ... well most of it comes from force bending missuse and after the fix i expect the healing output to drop by a good chunk.

I hope that 1.2 will make it easier for biochems to offer their products on the market. Atm it takes too long and costs to many resources (which have worth as well) to produce the stuff like adrenals at a customer friendly price. That's also why so many people have biochem as proffession ... the reusable versions don't force you to run and buy for 30-50 another stim after each death or a new stack of adrenals and so on. Like already said ... if you have maxed a craft prof already, keep it until patch 1.2 and see what comes.

Forget damage hybrids ... in a ranked premade you will have to stick to your role most of the time and therefore excell in it. That said ... you can also overdo it IMO don't go higher than force surge, which you will need to maintain your heal rotation. The 6% to bonus healing (not total) aren't that much. And the AoE Heal has very limited uses in pvp. Try to invest the points into the lightning tree ... not for dps but get the +20% bubble increase and the knockback stun, which help your survivability and can give you the extra seconds needed to heal your buddies. If it wasn't for a ranked premade i would have suggested the madness tree (up until unlimited force lightning and death field) as second tree, but in a good premade you won't have to deal damage and when facing a good premade you will have to be the best healer you can be to help your team. For items: A definite no no to stalker set. At least 2 pieces force mystic (bubble lockout reduced) And if you have enough expertise to hit the 10% mark anyways, 2 rataka pieces (mystic i think too, tough not sure about the name, since i have the game closes atm) The one which reduces your channeled heals cooldown, since it is needed for you to regain force and helps putting out as much of those lovly green numbers as you can