To put it gently, I agree with these guys..

[Esaru]

you've missed the point. you want to express your opinion, let bioware how unhappy you are? that's fine. It's the haters who ***** and moan everyday I was talking about.

 

And you realize it's usually the unhappy customer, be it a game, a car or food at a resturant, who voices an opinion. Those who are happy with a product rarely say anything. More often than not they out number the unhappy customer.

 

You assume it's the same people moaning every day, which frankly isn't the case. There are clearly a lot of major concerns that continuously pop up from different people every day. Just because you see the same complaints every day it doesn't mean it's from the same person. Maybe you should step back and realize these are all valid complaints and something major needs to be done about them because it's putting a lot of people off?

[uidLucid]

While the rest of your post is just an attempt to marginalize the OP opinion, you are right that Tribes1 was the best FPS ever. No, really, it was.

 

I love that the only thing multiple people seem to be agreeing on in this thread is that Tribes 1 was awesome haha.

[NDiggy]

I could run Scholomance a dozen times but I cringe thinking about running a SWTOR dungeon.

 

I quoted that because it stands out like a red flag. If this guy thinks running Scholomance was fun I have to seriously question his ability to evaluate MMO design. If he questioned the difficulty of Flashpoints he might have a point, but questioning their design and comparing it to Scholomance, an instance even Blizzard had to go back and re-design it was so bad, seriously calls into question this "bloggers" opinions on this game.

 

The whole "review" (and I use that word in its loosest sense) is tainted from the start when he states what his expectations were going into the game. He laments the gear treadmill endgame but speaks favorably of WoW where the gear treadmill is even worse. He cries about crafting but after 7+ years crafting in WoW is still as worthless as it ever was.

 

No meaningful connection between players. Crafting is pretty much a solo experience.

 

I'm not even sure what he means with the above quote. Crafting has always been a tedious solo experience, either spending hours alone farming materials or standing around waiting for your character to craft an item. In SWTOR you just have your companions handle the mundane stuff while you go out doing things like questing, grouping or pvp, you know, stuff that isn't a solo experience.

 

He clearly has an agenda, whether its with BW, EA or he's just a rampant Blizzard fanboy I can't tell.

 

What all the malcontents fail to understand is that the most important thing about any MMO launch is that in addition to launch content, there needs to be a solid framwork/foundation for the developers to build off of with regards to adding content or fleshing out the different aspects of the game. In my opinion SWTOR has a great foundation, even with all its flaws, which is why I'm sticking around and still enjoying the game.

[Vitellius]

Right away I get the sense that this guy is just a big troll. Quests boring, combat bad, endgame bad, dungeons boring, alts boring, community bad, WoW did it better, etc. Bad, bad bad.....it's all worthless, nothing redeemable. I'm surprised he doesn't fire bomb BW for creating the worst piece of software ever made. I don't know this guy, but he seems very biased and somewhat bitter.

[Blotter]

Logged in just to post here.

 

I agree completely... pretty much exactly how I'm feeling at this point. The game has no long lasting value, especially at the rate that things are being implemented and fixed (read: far too slow).

 

SWTOR is a decent game for a short amount of time until you realize how incredibly shallow and simple it is.

 

You mean essentially at about the same rate as any other MMO? Oh, hey, won't we see you complaining in a different thread that there's too many or too much downtime each week for fixes and patches and maintenance? can't have your cake and eat it now...

[Zaskaszh]

Funny, because when people post constructive threads about the issues in SWTOR & lack of features, those threads are followed by "WoW at launch didn't have this or that"

 

It works both ways.

 

Yes it does. My point is that WoW is a poor reference for making MMOs nowadays (from a developer's point of view), but it's the only point of reference for millions and millions of gamers who were first exposed to the MMO genre by playing a game which simplifies the genre to its most basic expression.

 

It should also be noted that the people stating "WoW didn't have this and that at launch" are also people who most likely entered the genre with WoW.

[Esaru]

You're pretty much proving my point for me. Your saying that anyone who says the game's all right and fun to play has to be a "fanboy" or "Biodrone" (two obviously disparaging labels). Why? Different people like different things. Are you saying that SWTOR is so incredibly bland, boring, buggy, and shoddy that anyone claiming to enjoy it is somehow stupid or blind? Are you saying that since you believe it is, everyone else has to as well? That's rather immature and self-important, if you ask me.

 

I'm ok with people not liking the game, just like I'm ok with people liking it. I'm just not ok with extremists at either end of the spectrum.

 

No? You can go ahead and like it. I don't go into threads that say "I love this game Bioware!" and piss on their parade.

 

Why do you? Why is anyone else in this thread? Oh yeah right, because you're insecure fanboys with ZERO objectivity. As I said

Edited February 24, 2012 by Esaru

[Genkin]

I love it. The exact same min that this is posted.

You're pretty much proving my point for me. Your saying that anyone who says the game's all right and fun to play has to be a "fanboy" or "Biodrone" (two obviously disparaging labels). Why? Different people like different things. Are you saying that SWTOR is so incredibly bland, boring, buggy, and shoddy that anyone claiming to enjoy it is somehow stupid or blind? Are you saying that since you believe it is, everyone else has to as well? That's rather immature and self-important, if you ask me.

 

I'm ok with people not liking the game, just like I'm ok with people liking it. I'm just not ok with extremists at either end of the spectrum.

 

Right under it is this. Talking about those who post good opinions of the game.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Averran
comment on deleted post

[Blotter]

I quoted that because it stands out like a red flag. If this guy thinks running Scholomance was fun I have to seriously question his ability to evaluate MMO design. If he questioned the difficulty of Flashpoints he might have a point, but questioning their design and comparing it to Scholomance, an instance even Blizzard had to go back and re-design it was so bad, seriously calls into question this "bloggers" opinions on this game.

 

Seriously haha. I mean, if you haven't forced yourself to complete the 45-minute-limit Scholo run for the Tier 0.5 set (before having your Tier 1) back when it came out, then you don't know the meaning of the words "repetetive" and "psychic pain."

 

Edit: Oh wait...that was the Baron run in Stratholme...haha...been a couple years since I played obviously lol

Edited February 24, 2012 by Blotter

[Esaru]

I love it. The exact same min that this is posted.

 

Right under it is this. Talking about those who post good opinions of the game.

 

Irony at it greatest.

 

Fallacies at their finest. I was responding to a post that said the people complaining about the game are 'the same people making multiple accounts', which is what I was replying to.

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

"There isn’t a community at all. This feels like a single-player game. I rarely saw another player while leveling. People are just crammed into the station"

 

i encountered the exact opposite. my friends list is pretty full.

 

but i'm glad you found an article which relays the thoughts you want to harbor.

[Blotter]

I love it. The exact same min that this is posted.

 

Right under it is this. Talking about those who post good opinions of the game.

 

Irony at it greatest.

 

Not to mention hypocrisy.

[Alxandria]

My thoughts are in red. Why am I even bothering, because my impression of the game is almost 100% different than theirs and it's a slow work day so I'm actually taking my lunch break.

 

I’d like to just point out a few of my biggest issues with the game.

 

Questing

 

Too repetitive Not really disputing this, but not bothered by it. Every MMO I've played (10 yearsish of playing MMOS) has that repetitive feel. Go here, do this, collect X, kill X. I like the reskin of the voiced story, makes it more enjoyable for me.

At first the story disguises the grind, but when you’ve reached the 5th planet giving you the same cliche story arcs, it’s hard to suspend disbelief. The writing for a lot of the quests was bad. Disagree completely in terms of the writing. I found some stories as classic war stories, but not cliche. I enjoy the writing (finished Imp Agent, In Act I of Jedi Knight, Act II of Smuggler. I find myself cracking up a lot.

Too boring, maintaining a very generic feel. I don't know what he means by generic, but I definitely am not bored.

 

Replayability

 

I have no desire to make alts. Maybe this falls under questing. I can’t do it again.

Only a few of the classes felt fun or interesting, and the mirrors were a little too obvious. I can’t, for example, go play a Juggernaut after playing a Guardian. They are the same thing. Personal choice here. I don't begrudge someone not liking alts. I'm currently playing the clone of my Imp Agent, the Smuggler, but decided to play Stealth (Scoundrel/Operative) instead of Cover (Gunslinger/Sniper) and it's a very different feel. Maybe I just made alt playing fun for me.

 

Crafting

 

In many ways, pointless. Only Biochem and maybe Cybertech are useful.

No meaningful connection between players. Crafting is pretty much a solo experience. Disagree again. I love crafting, I'm actually the obsessed crafter when I play MMOs. I'm currently doing Biochem, Artifice and Slicing (ok not really a crafting but can't begrudge me one non-crafter.) I find it useful to help my guildies in their leveling endeavor. I never really made my cash crafting (except for exceptional result) Gathering is still my money maker. I would like to see more recipes for everyone though.

 

Dungeons

 

All but the first dungeon felt very boring to me. I couldn’t bring myself to do them more than once.

They didn’t have that replayability factor that WoW dungeons had — I could run Scholomance a dozen times but I cringe thinking about running a SWTOR dungeon. This I partly agree. The first Flashpoint sets the bar high in terms of story, and you don't really get a lot more from I would say most of the later ones. But that is only storywise, I like replaying these. Especially Hardmodes, I find them enjoyable and I like my role in the various fights. I've done em as pick-up groups and with guildies, and mostly always have fun (PUGs always run the risk of groan groups)

 

End-game PvE and PvP

 

Gear treadmills aren’t fun for me.

I don’t like the Expertise stat at all. I don't PvP, not my cup of tea, so I can't honestly comment on it. Doesn't every MMO have a Gear Treadmill though? Grind to get X gear, or X better Gear, along with lucky drops? I would like there to be more than that, but this is a kinda of MMO staple I am used to. Maybe I am misunderstanding the term Treadmill?

 

How the game feels

 

Combat feels off for me as a Jedi Knight. There’s a disconnect somewhere. Maybe a delay, maybe a GCD issue, maybe the animations. Personal Reaction is my guess. I love my Jedi Knight Combat. There are so many little glee moments when I fight Golds and Bosses that I feel like a school girl sometimes.

It’s not quite “WoW in space” because I think SWTOR falls short of what WoW achieved in the ‘feel’ department. For what it is, WoW has a lot of depth (which might sound like an oxymoron because themeparks do not have a lot of depth) and SWTOR did not capture the player in any sense of “world”. The game actually felt closer to Warhammer Online’s truncated questing hubs. I hated WoW. I mean I playe dit for like 4 months back in Wrath, but WoW really bored me. SWTOR doesn't and at least until I see all 8 storylines, I don't see it boring me. I guess I can say I am glad it's not WoW in Space? Personal opinion item basically.

 

Community

 

There isn’t a community at all. This feels like a single-player game. I rarely saw another player while leveling. People are just crammed into the station.

No one needs to communicate with or interact with other players on any level.

Players do not have to rely on each other.

Essentially there is no “massively multiplayer” feel. I rewrote this response twice, because I agree and disagree in almost equal measures. During the leveling process, it does feel empty. I've been prone to being a soloer during my level process in every MMO i've played though, but I usually enjoyed seeing some general chat. Maybe I just miss level range chats? End Game though is where I usually see the MMO community and this again was fostered by end game chat. In this it would be like 50 chat. You quickly learn who the trolls are, who is funny, level headed, that is an MMO community to me. I guess I agree with the blogger, eh, it's hard to decide. I'll just shut up now.

[Palonto]

To put it gently, I didn't bother reading their opinions as I am capable of forming my own.

 

^^ this

 

Also I stopped reading after he mentioned WoW. When do people understand that not everyone likes, IMHO, that Awful game. And that you cannot say well this game has X that game does not have it so it is a bad game. It's different. agreed that does not means that it is always better.

 

That would be saying like "OMG that car has a electric motor so it sucks, the car I always had. had a Petrol engine..."

Edited February 24, 2012 by Palonto

[Terko_Koslah]

I've been posting bug reports all day long. Thought I should start doing it now for the benefit of the game, but it almost seems broken.

[Urko]

The link tells the truth quite frankly , i really hate to say that , but it does.

[Zaskaszh]

No? You can go ahead and like it. I don't go into threads that say "I love this game Bioware!" and piss on their parade.

 

Why do you? Why is anyone else in this thread? Oh yeah right, because you're insecure fanboys with ZERO objectivity. As I said

 

Again, you prove my point for me. My point, by the way, isn't "SWTOR is the greatest game ever made!". My point is "Gamers today are mostly an immature, self-important, entitled lot who complain first and don't even know why most of the time".

 

I have no stake in SWTOR's long term success or lack of it. I could care less. My ego won't shatter and my life won't lose its meaning should the game underperform down the road. I play it; I didn't make or fund it, so I could care less how it performs.

 

I fail to see how any of the above makes me an "insecure fanboy" but, since you're a clear exmplae of those gamers I'm talking about, I guess you clearly see this as a "Me versus you" thing, and you absolutely need to be right.

[Esaru]

My thoughts are in red. Why am I even bothering, because my impression of the game is almost 100% different than theirs and it's a slow work day so I'm actually taking my lunch break.

 

While you don't agree with the OP (guess what people, that's okay), at least your response is well thought out and presented in a mature way unlike 90% of the other pleebs in this thread.

[Iboga]

Personally I disagree with nearly every one of this guys complaints. Just because he has the attention span of a gnat doesn't mean its a bad game...

 

I've found it quite replayable, I've played through most of the JK story, SW, and Scoundrel and have been having a blast. I suppose I'd be considered a casual layer as I only play a few hours every other day, but that doesn't make my opinion any less valuable then Mr. Randomblogger's.

 

All these people expecting some sort of uber mmo that releases with 7 years of content on day one are delusional... Go play something else for 2 months since you content locusts can't stay anywhere for long. I'm tired of all these entitled crybabies on the forums. Get your 3-6 months out of Tera, Secret World, GW2 and probably MoP and come on back to repeat the pathetic cycle. Just stop freaking whining on the forums of a game you don't play or enjoy!!!

Edited February 24, 2012 by Iboga

[Quraswren]

Have at it.

 

Questing

• Too repetitive

• At first the story disguises the grind, but when you’ve reached the 5th planet giving you the same cliche story arcs, it’s hard to suspend disbelief. The writing for a lot of the quests was bad.

• Too boring, maintaining a very generic feel.

 

I found nothing repetitive about questing. The main class story line was quit amazing and the side quests are just that – Side quests. They were better than anything I have done in pretty much any other MMO.

 

I never once got boared.

 

Replayability

• I have no desire to make alts. Maybe this falls under questing. I can’t do it again.

• Only a few of the classes felt fun or interesting, and the mirrors were a little too obvious. I can’t, for example, go play a Juggernaut after playing a Guardian. They are the same thing.

 

Sounds like he just doesn’t like the style of MMo’s as they are all built around making alts in some manner. While all classes do have mirrors, I could just as easily play a juggernaut and then play a Guardian as the stories are so different as well as the side quests. His statement makes little sense since there is little overlap other than skills. Two totally very different leveling experiences.

 

Crafting

• In many ways, pointless. Only Biochem and maybe Cybertech are useful.

• No meaningful connection between players. Crafting is pretty much a solo experience.

 

Agreed but the last thing I want to do is rely on another player for crafting. That pretty much sucks ***. So crafting being a solo experience is a good thing.

 

Dungeons

• All but the first dungeon felt very boring to me. I couldn’t bring myself to do them more than once.

• They didn’t have that replayability factor that WoW dungeons had — I could run Scholomance a dozen times but I cringe thinking about running a SWTOR dungeon.

 

I’ve ran every dungeon multiple times and they are very fun. Be it pugs or guild. I run them all and have a blast. Koan being my favorite.

 

I found no WOW dungeon worth running again as the stories were do lacking. I ran them of course for gear but not cause they were amazing. Scholo sucked and the only one I could say was interesting was BRD (upper and lower). Other than that. They were not so good.

 

I find myself wanting to run SWTOR FP’s cause I do enjoy the social aspect of it and what choices others will make. So much better than mindless running WOW instances and never saying a thing.

 

End-game PvE and PvP

• Gear treadmills aren’t fun for me.

• I don’t like the Expertise stat at all.

 

He hates gear treadmill but runs school dozens of times. Maybe he just liked going there to hang out. However, gear treadmills for MMO’s will always be there. Time to get over it.

 

As far as expertise it starting to seem like many developers are heading that direction a necessary evil. I’m not fond of it so I can agree with him there.

 

How the game feels

• Combat feels off for me as a Jedi Knight. There’s a disconnect somewhere. Maybe a delay, maybe a GCD issue, maybe the animations.

• It’s not quite “WoW in space” because I think SWTOR falls short of what WoW achieved in the ‘feel’ department. For what it is, WoW has a lot of depth (which might sound like an oxymoron because themeparks do not have a lot of depth) and SWTOR did not capture the player in any sense of “world”. The game actually felt closer to Warhammer Online’s truncated questing hubs.

 

My sage, sentinel, trooper, sorcerer, jggernaut and operative all feel spot on when playing. Maybe he needs to get a better PC or ISP.

 

It’s got a touch of WOW in space I think but that makes the learning curve eash for many to grasp as WOW was probably their first MMO. Don’t fix whats not broken.

 

Wow was extremely shallow and has continued to be so for quite sometime now on and on and off basis and SWTOR to some extent but the individual stories for both Rep. and Emp. makes up for a lot to me. WOW was never as interesting when leveling or endgame. For a theme park game, SWTOR does it better. I'm more intouch with my toon in SWTOR now than I have ever been after 7 years in WOW. Thats saying something to me.

 

Community

• There isn’t a community at all. This feels like a single-player game. I rarely saw another player while leveling. People are just crammed into the station.

• No one needs to communicate with or interact with other players on any level.

• Players do not have to rely on each other.

• Essentially there is no “massively multiplayer” feel.

 

You get from the community what you give. By the time I was 50 on my first toon my friends list was huge. I healed everything and people wanted me there. Everything from grouping for solo quests to heroic 2+ and H4, You’re rewarded for grouping in this game unlike WOW and I grouped through all my leveling experience. Lack of people was not a problem.

 

He claims no need to communicate or interact so clearly he didn’t finish H2 or H4 quests. It’s a shame because most of them were really good and communication was needed. You also had to rely on other players. Sounds like the creater of that blog wanted to stay solo and didn’t seek out anything and got upset because he couldn’t do all the content solo.

 

I can see why the blog host is upset cause he didn’t get into groups to experience the multiplayer part of the game. That’s too bad really cause it was good.

 

I on the other hand had no difficulty finding the multiplayer part of the game. Everything from duo groups to 8 and 16 man operations, the massive multiplayer is there, but cause the blogger didn’t find it does not mean it’s non-existent.

[Loupe]

I could counter about 80 - 90 % of what they said so you wont mind if I dismiss a random blog.

 

This gaming blog is well known and respected in the gaming community. So dismiss all you like, just don't consider it random.

[Esaru]

Again, you prove my point for me. My point, by the way, isn't "SWTOR is the greatest game ever made!". My point is "Gamers today are mostly an immature, self-important, entitled lot who complain first and don't even know why most of the time".

 

I have no stake in SWTOR's long term success or lack of it. I could care less. My ego won't shatter and my life won't lose its meaning should the game underperform down the road. I play it; I didn't make or fund it, so I could care less how it performs.

 

I fail to see how any of the above makes me an "insecure fanboy" but, since you're a clear exmplae of those gamers I'm talking about, I guess you clearly see this as a "Me versus you" thing, and you absolutely need to be right.

 

And you made that initial point ( "Gamers today are mostly an immature, self-important, entitled lot who complain first and don't even know why most of the time".) because of one article expressing criticism towards the game.

 

Yeah, my point stands.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Esaru

[Mephismo]

Clearly you didn't even read the article. All the points he makes are valid, completely level-headed and fair. Then again it's typical from someone like you to shove anyone who criticizes this game into your cute little catagory there because you just aren't intelligent enough to know the difference.

 

Just his opinion.

Sure some agree with it.

I just wonder why people need someone else to tell them why they don’t like the game.

Why do you guys that dislike it so much continue to sub ?

Also he said he may come back later.

[Loupe]

Stopped reading the blog post after the first sentence. They went into the game expecting it to suck, so that is all they got from the game. When you have already made your mind up about something before you try it then all your doing is wasting your time.

 

Kinda like stopping the reading at the first sentence and making a blanket judgement?

[SirRobin]

Meh... I agree with many of their opinions but... Yeah... Those who agree already agree and those who don't already don't. The "battle lines," so to speak, were drawn long before TOR even launched.