Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Uluain]

so, can anyone explain to me why the topic about same gender flirt prompt was closed even though it was repeatedly said by officials that it would stay open? if a few replies were off-topic (by dealing with same gender relationships, not flirt prompt) why not delete those? the topic had 60 pages aswell.

 

bioware, walking a very thin line by now.

I was the originator of that thread, and posted this in regards to it earlier:

 

I have requested clarification through appropriate channels from those in a position to provide it. I would like to remind everyone that the forums are not the place to discuss thread closures or deletion.

 

For now, we have redirects to this thread. Let's see where things go from here.

 

EDIT - 12:00 AM CST:

 

My communication on the subject has been received, replied to and escalated for considerations by those higher up the ladder. Let's talk about other things now, please.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Uluain

[amnie]

mkay, so it's dealt with (was thinking about mailing someone like they usually post when topics are closed, but thought I'd better ask first, and since the topic directed to here... ahem)

 

 

either way, I do hope both topics (flirt prompt and relationships with companions) get dealed with soon.

 

I'm sick and tired of being treated like it's a non-issue when bioware clearly made it one by not implying these options right from the get-go, as they usually do in their games.

[silencerbob]

im wondering if there are any extremist npcs in the game that would hunt you down / exclude u from doing pvp/operations/flashpoints/world quests when they find out you are in a SGR

[fallenellaf]

ITS OKAY TO BE GAY!

 

 

 

but siriously now, if there is no law or anything preventing bioware from doing it then they should do it...

[SilentKitty]

I'm very much looking forward to the presentation of new LI:s into the game

 

Being female myself I only play female chars, it wasn't until I found Bioware that I really started to spend time and money on computergames. All the previous ones I tried had male chars and for some reason I just couldn't connect to with them. My favorite LI:s are pretty much always male, it just clicks that way with me. But I love to have the option to roleplay a female char and romance Leliana, Liara or Merrill. It let's me see more of the game and I have found each fem-fem romance that I have played to be wonderful so far. Really looking forward to seeing them come alive here in SWTOR as well.

[Uluain]

mkay, so it's dealt with (was thinking about mailing someone like they usually post when topics are closed, but thought I'd better ask first, and since the topic directed to here... ahem)

 

 

either way, I do hope both topics (flirt prompt and relationships with companions) get dealed with soon.

 

I'm sick and tired of being treated like it's a non-issue when bioware clearly made it one by not implying these options right from the get-go, as they usually do in their games.

I don't think that the contact I was referred to is exactly a secret, so if you do have concerns to express in this matter, Aurrelio (the mod who locked my thread) recommended Eric Campbell, Community Coordinator, at communitysupport@swtor.com.

 

Don't get me wrong - I am not happy about this. But I don't want to wander onto topics verboten under forum guidelines and risk losing this thread, too.

[amnie]

im wondering if there are any extremist npcs in the game that would hunt you down / exclude u from doing pvp/operations/flashpoints/world quests when they find out you are in a SGR

 

eh, lore-wise neither factions were too keen on cyborgs either, and neither my smuggler is dealing with anything mean (though she did comment on a few things when it was implied 'ew they're nasty cyborgs, kill them all) nor my sith warrior (the opposite, obviously, he's all glorified coming from a 'well-established' family and all)

 

while I personally like having stuff a bit more 'thrilling' (i.e people actually letting me feel that they are suspicious of me for being cyborg) I don't really see it happening.. *shrug*

[Suaine]

im wondering if there are any extremist npcs in the game that would hunt you down / exclude u from doing pvp/operations/flashpoints/world quests when they find out you are in a SGR

 

Are there extremist NPCs now hunting people down or excluding anyone from pvp/operations/flashpoints/world quests when they find out people are in a inter-species relationship? No. There is no mechanic in the game excluding players from those types of gameplay for any reason anywhere, so asking that question is kind of a moot point.

 

Certainly, a world reacting to your choices more fluidly could be fun - NPCs remarking on your scars, for example, or your species, or your hair color. But that's not going to happen with current technology.

[ProfessorCaprion]

Certainly, a world reacting to your choices more fluidly could be fun - NPCs remarking on your scars, for example, or your species, or your hair color. But that's not going to happen with current technology.

 

Tangent - Not TOO far off, though; A few NPCs will say different things if you're non-Human, mostly on the Empire side. I think it's the Bounty Hunter quest were a person's line changes from something like "there's a degenerate out here!" to "there's an ALIEN out here!"

 

I only had this comparison because a friend of mine level Bounty Hunters together and we did the same phase one right after another, spectating on the other's conversation choices.

[Kioma]

Really looking forward to seeing them come alive here in SWTOR as well.

 

I have a lot of very strong hopes for this. The writers are, in my mind, great - I have a few issues with the JK storyline but by and large the way people interact with one another is very enjoyable.

 

I haven't felt any urge to pursue heterosexual romances in TOR but I'm told good things for the most part (though people seem disappointed with the abrupt stop post-marriage), so I'm hoping that the excellent treatment of same-sex relationships we've seen in others games that these writers have worked on will carry over to TOR with equal satisfaction.

[MusedMoose]

Wow, a lot changes when I'm asleep. To everyone:

 

KEEP CALM

 

AND

 

CARRY ON

 

It's my hope that the threads are being consolidated in preparation of an announcement of SGRs. I'm enough of a realist to know that such an announcement would start a massive poodoo-storm across the forums, so it will help the mods to have one thread to direct people to for discussion. Like I said, this is only a hope, and time will tell if I'm right.

 

I've been thinking about some of the things Mr. Reid said and I want to do a bit of analysis and reasoning, pertaining to why we got the announcement so early. But that will have to wait - I need to get to work, and as cool as my supervisor is, I don't think he'd accept "I had to post on a message board for a Star Wars game" as reason for being late.

 

I have a lot of very strong hopes for this. The writers are, in my mind, great - I have a few issues with the JK storyline but by and large the way people interact with one another is very enjoyable.

 

I haven't felt any urge to pursue heterosexual romances in TOR but I'm told good things for the most part (though people seem disappointed with the abrupt stop post-marriage), so I'm hoping that the excellent treatment of same-sex relationships we've seen in others games that these writers have worked on will carry over to TOR with equal satisfaction.

Indeed. What little I've seen of the current romances in TOR has been quite nifty - really enjoying the slow development of the Vette relationship with my SW, and definitely looking forward to seeing how things go with Dorne on my Trooper. Altaholism makes it difficult to get farther along in these stories with any speed. But as far as I know, they keep the same writers for the various companions, so the SGR stories should be equally as good.

[MamaSok]

im new on this thread (and honestly don't have the time to read all of the posts). I'm hoping this weeks Q&A will have some kind of ETA, any ETA at this point would be happily accepted! It's also nice, finding this thread, seeing so many like minded people who excitedly await an answer as well!

[Kioma]

im new on this thread (and honestly don't have the time to read all of the posts). I'm hoping this weeks Q&A will have some kind of ETA, any ETA at this point would be happily accepted! It's also nice, finding this thread, seeing so many like minded people who excitedly await an answer as well!

 

Welcome to the thread (which is now a compression of three separate threads)!

 

I don't think we'll get an ETA, but I'd he happy to be wrong about that. Just a bit of information about their plans would be nice.

[Galius]

It's mechanically unnecessary. I've stated that many times before. Just don't choose same sex flirts. It's not rocket science.

 

I don't see a solid reason here not to include it. Just an opinion that it is not needed.

[EvanSnowWolf]

While I'm what can be termed a 'self-insert' rpg gamer (meaning I play the game and make decisions as I would in real-life, with each character I make representing a different aspect of my personality), there are also many who like to role-play their characters more freely - much as an actor taking on a role.

That's what role-playing is really - acting.

Although I do find it difficult to role-play a straight character, or a male one for that matter, which is why up until TOR Bioware has pretty much been my haven - finally allowing me to play myself instead of either forcing me to be a) male and/or b) straight.

.

 

Yup. That's pretty much "Tier 1" roleplaying. It is the basic baseline. Most beginner roleplayers have Mary Sue like characters just for the sake of familiarity. Some people stop there, others go much further.

 

I once played a Sword of Heimdall in a Werewolf:The Apocalypse game, which is basically a Werewolf Nazi (No really, an actual Nazi) and people out of character thought that was how I really felt out of character when it was in fact, just a role. I am not a Nazi in real life, anymore than Harrison Ford is really the President of the United States just because he played one in Air Force One.

 

By the same token, my "main" in TOR is a female jedi knight. I actually don't care that she can't romance Kira on the grounds that I don't think any jedi should be doing that. Pretty sure there was a rule about that somewhere... yeah..

 

But I could see how some special snowflake people would want their Jedi to do it. The game currently has 16 classes (8 if you want to be a nitpicker about mirrors), and a half dozen races. There is currently only one sexual interest.

 

While I would love it if MY sexual interest would be represented in a video game (HA!), (mine is not particularly socially acceptable in the United States), I can empathize with the idea of being railroaded into a sexuality with characters you don't care for.

 

Mako - "She's just not that into you!"

Edited February 29, 2012 by EvanSnowWolf

[Galius]

Now that this in not only the Same Gender Relationships clarification thread where we ask pretty please for Bioware to give us any detail about what was promised back in September. This now the the same gender NPC flirt thread and the forum thread for discussion of the mother of all bad ideas the no gays toggle.

 

I have spent hours familiarizing myself with all these thread that are now coalesced here and I have some meta observations from general directions I have seen the conversations go.

 

On theme I have seen brought up again and again is that the heterosexual orientation is the majority and the inclusion of non-straight flirting is pandering to a minority.

 

Now being part of a majority does give one certain privileges. Dictating that all concessions go to the majority is NOT one of them. Protection of Minority interests is a pillar of a free society. A statistical majority does not correlate to being correct. Most people think the 21st century began January 1, 2000. The fact that it began one year later is the truth regardless of majority opinion.

 

Another argument I see is the lack of non-straight characters in canon. Star Wars Canon is a tricky critter with different "levels" of Canon, but all but N-Canon IS part of one cohesive continuity. Some will say "G-Canon" only blithely ignoring that both novels and games are part of C-canon including this game. But say just for the sake of argument we DID only go by the examples of G-Canon for relationships. By that logic we should all have a romancible sibling companion. Now it was never said explicitly that in the GFFA incest was acceptable perhaps like ancient Egypt but we do know that Leia "always knew" according to her dialog in Return of the Jedi so when she deep-kissed Luke on Hoth to make Han jealous she knew she was kissing her brother.

 

But this game is C-canon and in C-canon There is example of loving homosexual relationships. Karen Traviss introdced the characters Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasu as being married.

 

In her own words

 

I'm not asking for a "no gays toggle". I would like to see a choice though at character creation for sexual preference. I see no reason to be offended by that. But of course people can just keep slamming me as biased, bigoted, or other slurs instead of just realizing I'm not asking for a huge thing here.

[Innocentone]

I'm not asking for a "no gays toggle". I would like to see a choice though at character creation for sexual preference. I see no reason to be offended by that. But of course people can just keep slamming me as biased, bigoted, or other slurs instead of just realizing I'm not asking for a huge thing here.

 

 

Wouldn't this mean that everyone would have to start there chars over again in order for this to happen? Honestly, after dealing with the having to reroll to switch AC's. They should just add this were you can choose between flirt and no flirt options at time of the conversation. Already got over 40 datacrons and I really don't want to have to go find them again. >.< Some are really annoying!!! They can just add it to the game kinda like how we have a light side and dark side choices.

[Kioma]

I don't see a solid reason here not to include it. Just an opinion that it is not needed.

 

Honestly, I'm tired of arguing this. You want the toggle and see no reason it shouldn't be included. I don't want the toggle and see no reason why it should be included. That's about as simple as it's going to get.

[emusan]

I'm not asking for a "no gays toggle". I would like to see a choice though at character creation for sexual preference. I see no reason to be offended by that. But of course people can just keep slamming me as biased, bigoted, or other slurs instead of just realizing I'm not asking for a huge thing here.

 

I think one of the problems with that last thread was that the original topic was pushing for a toggle, not a choice at character creation, and people got hung up on that(on both sides).

 

While I still don't see a particularly huge reason for it, if there has to be something I guess a choice at character creation would be okay provided that it allowed those of us that want to see all the content a fitting option(bisexual or something similar).

 

EDIT: it is also important to think about the fact that while you might not see something wrong with a toggle, others might feel differently(not saying I do). This is a touchy subject with a lot of emotions involved... Just something to keep in mind.

Edited February 29, 2012 by emusan

[Kioma]

But I could see how some special snowflake people would want their Jedi to do it.

 

'Special snowflake people'? Really? Don't think that's a little condescending, especially considering the characters in question might have reasons for not following that particular tenet of the Jedi Code?

[MoogleNut]

... Most beginner roleplayers have Mary Sue like characters just for the sake of familiarity.

 

.....

 

Mako - "She's just not that into you!"

 

For the first part, you're making a lot of assumptions there - Mary Sue? Really?

 

As for Mako, my BH sees her more of a llittle sister anyway so that's not even an issue

 

On topic, trying to look on the bright side of the thread merger - it would be great if they are planning some sort of announcement soon, hopefully one that will ease the stress of the current ME3 pre-order fiasco (Game/Gamestation have JUST announced they're not getting any copies, or any EA games AT ALL. Luckily EA have sent CE stocks to Play.com/Zavvi and Shopto).

 

Some good news would be most welcome around now

 

(edited for gud shpellings )

Edited February 29, 2012 by MoogleNut

[EvanSnowWolf]

'Special snowflake people'? Really? Don't think that's a little condescending, especially considering the characters in question might have reasons for not following that particular tenet of the Jedi Code?

 

No, I don't. At all.

 

I've been running roleplaying games for 20 years. Snowflake syndrome is one of the laziest forms of roleplay. Without copy/pasting my blog, it is anytime anyone simply cannot conform to an archtype for a character model. The Get of Fenris that doesn't fight, for example.

 

It is the idea that you need to be special, and by "breaking outside the mold" you are somehow more free thinking than everyone else... because you are different. Taking something that is established one way and playing it the exact opposite is not the mark of an advancing roleplayer anymore than throwing out the directions on a 300 piece item you need to put together is free thinking. It is about being able to understand the setting.

 

ARE there jedi that marry? Sure... you would not have jedi bloodlines if they didn't. Does your character have "a good reason"? I'm sure they think they do. But the bottom line is the same. The storyteller said this is going to be an all apple game and you needed to feel special so you rolled an orange. They are supposed to be the exceptions to the rule, but more often than not.. they will outnumber the rule by people that think they cannot have an interesting, rich, or unique character unless it is opposed to the majority of whatever element is is comprised of.

 

For the first part, you're making a lot of assumptions there - Mary Sue? Really?

 

Well, it IS. The percentage of yourself in the character is directly related to its Mary Sue level. Does your character share your sexuality? Does it share the same political views? Does it have the same racial ethnicity? Does it embrace a culture wildly different from your own? I am not saying they can't, but the MORE of you in it, the more it fits the description of Mary Sue characters. I really hard time and was challenged by Legend of the 5 Rings because of its collectivist culture. It was not a role I was ready for it and took a long time for me to embrace roleplaying ideas such as that my Scorpion needed to commit seppeku to cleanse his family honor when the real me felt it would have been better to redeem his family through actions, but that's not how the culture works.

Edited February 29, 2012 by EvanSnowWolf

[Kioma]

No, I don't. At all.

 

<snip>

 

Yyyeah, okay. I'm not going near this one.

[EvanSnowWolf]

Yyyeah, okay. I'm not going near this one.

 

Well, you ASKED!

[Kioma]

Well, you ASKED!

 

You're right, I did. And from your elaboration I concluded that there's no particular point discussing it. Interesting to see your opinions on the matter, though.