Lurkz Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Why exactly is the locking of the toggle thread "good news"? If the reason for locking it was "we have no intention of including a toggle when this content goes live so this conversation is pointless", then it's good news. Unfortunately, we don't know the reasoning behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 If the reason for locking it was "we have no intention of including a toggle when this content goes live so this conversation is pointless", then it's good news. Unfortunately, we don't know the reasoning behind it. Well... That only makes it 'good news' for people who don't want the toggle. I don't, but I can understand how, if that were the case, pro-toggle might be peeved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well... That only makes it 'good news' for people who don't want the toggle. I don't, but I can understand how, if that were the case, pro-toggle might be peeved. True, but it was the only interpretation I could think of that could be construed as "good news." There's also the "we want to shuffle everyone involved in this issue into one spot so as to make it easier to ignore them" interpretation but I didn't figure that counted as good (and I'd like to think that, whatever the communication issues, this isn't the case). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_earl Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 im guessing content for SGRA will be for the next expansion given the great modification it needs for the game content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 im guessing content for SGRA will be for the next expansion given the great modification it needs for the game content. Depends on how they do it. Changing currently existing companions might only require a few new vocal lines (as most appear to be gender neutral) and some gender flags switched to allow either gender to access the flirts associated with them. Thing is, we just don't know how complex or simple it might be. From a brief look at the Hero Engine website it seems to come with a stack of developer tools but we don't know how much they've customised it. Maybe the tools they use have the capacity to plug this sort of content in nice and easy; maybe they don't. I definitely believe that new companions will be an expansion pack matter. Developing all new dialogue, story, event interaction and model forms would be way too much work for a free content inclusion, I think. That's one of the main reasons why I hope they alter the existing companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I definitely believe that new companions will be an expansion pack matter. Developing all new dialogue, story, event interaction and model forms would be way too much work for a free content inclusion, I think. That's one of the main reasons why I hope they alter the existing companions. Did anyone happen to, uh, follow some of the leaked/datamined stuff that showed up on Torhead a while back? I don't want to spoil anything, but if that stuff is even an idea of what to expect, it's safe to say new companions wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for a patch. Not 20 at once, certainly, but I'm actually really hoping they will continue to give us not just neutral/same-for-everyone story in these patches, but give companions and classes some love in that regard on a regular basis, regardless even of what they plan with SGRAs. But if we're talking about new companions for each class simultaneously, then yeah, I think we're probably looking at a paid expansion. If that is the only way they can bring themselves to implement SGRAs, however, I would personally be quite disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Did anyone happen to, uh, follow some of the leaked/datamined stuff that showed up on Torhead a while back? I admit I haven't. But if we're talking about new companions for each class simultaneously, then yeah, I think we're probably looking at a paid expansion. If that is the only way they can bring themselves to implement SGRAs, however, I would personally be quite disappointed. Oh, me too. Very much so. I'd find it very disappointing indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklecat Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Forget disappointing; if this only comes in a paid expansion, there's absolutely no chance I'd ever buy it, or another EA/Bioware game again. Having the temerity to make us pay more for the privilege of playing our characters as we should have been able to at launch? I'd go straight into sheer rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Forget disappointing; if this only comes in a paid expansion, there's absolutely no chance I'd ever buy it, or another EA/Bioware game again. Having the temerity to make us pay more for the privilege of playing our characters as we should have been able to at launch? I'd go straight into sheer rage. I... wouldn't go so far as to boycott EA/Bioware as a whole. Bioware Austin, maybe. I'd certain to be careful to check that their games included the content that I wanted before purchasing, no doubt there. Caveat emptor and all that. But Bioware as a whole? No, I don't think I'd go that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Did anyone happen to, uh, follow some of the leaked/datamined stuff that showed up on Torhead a while back? I read through those and it definitely (assuming it's correct) makes it clear that companion updates can/will happen in major content patches rather than just paid expansions. So, assuming SGRA implementation isn't so ridiculously complex as to make it infeasible without a paid expansion (which I doubt unless they're only adding it to new companions), then it should be a definite possibility to see it show up in one of those patches, rather than waiting for "SWTOR: The Search for More Money" or something. At least... I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I read through those and it definitely (assuming it's correct) makes it clear that companion updates can/will happen in major content patches rather than just paid expansions. So, assuming SGRA implementation isn't so ridiculously complex as to make it infeasible without a paid expansion (which I doubt unless they're only adding it to new companions), then it should be a definite possibility to see it show up in one of those patches, rather than waiting for "SWTOR: The Search for More Money" or something. At least... I hope so. Any self-respecting Smuggler would be on board for "The Search for More Money", but mine will only partake if he's got his LI by his side. Corso keeps asking him if he has ideas to make them even richer, so. But yeah, updating the current companions and giving them more content beyond 50 should definitely be in the realm of what a patch can do. In my personal opinion, it's something these patches should do anyway, regardless of SGR content - I don't want my personal story and my companions to stagnate for years while the rest of the galaxy moves on. BW have made these selling points of the game, they should not abandon them for completely uniform and linear raids/flashpoints (not that those are bad, just that they shouldn't be the only story content for patches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklecat Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I... wouldn't go so far as to boycott EA/Bioware as a whole. Bioware Austin, maybe. I'd certain to be careful to check that their games included the content that I wanted before purchasing, no doubt there. Caveat emptor and all that. But Bioware as a whole? No, I don't think I'd go that far. There's a point at which corporate responsibility comes into play, to my mind, and this is it; allowing your subsidiary to treat a minority group you've said you want to be inclusive of in such a manner would reflect badly upon everyone involved, and they all have a responsibility to uphold that commitment. Including the content late, poor communication, even giving us less options... I'll deal with those, unhappy as they make me. But having to pay more for unequal opportunities would be one of the biggest indications of disrespect towards me on their part that I can imagine at this point. It's not about boycotting them as such, any more than cancelling my sub was about trying to punish them. I'm one person; I rather doubt accounting is sitting and going "oh noes, sparklecat isn't buying our games anymore, we're ruined!" It's about reaching the point where my enjoyment from the game(s) is outweighed by the negative associations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Processloh Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 First of all companions is a core feature of this game. Romance is a core feature of companions. Not having sgra in 2012 is just bigotry. I specifically purchased this game based on the availabilty of core content. If they don't implement sgra soon they will have falsely marketed this game and I will have every cent back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Any self-respecting Smuggler would be on board for "The Search for More Money", but mine will only partake if he's got his LI by his side. Corso keeps asking him if he has ideas to make them even richer, so. But yeah, updating the current companions and giving them more content beyond 50 should definitely be in the realm of what a patch can do. In my personal opinion, it's something these patches should do anyway, regardless of SGR content - I don't want my personal story and my companions to stagnate for years while the rest of the galaxy moves on. BW have made these selling points of the game, they should not abandon them for completely uniform and linear raids/flashpoints (not that those are bad, just that they shouldn't be the only story content for patches). My smuggler would rather throw Corso out the airlock honestly. Her and Risha though? Partners in crime all the way. Agreed, there is no reason that the companion and PC stories should not continue to be expanded through the major patches alongside the galaxy story that's unfolding. Heck, given some of what's supposedly coming, I'll be very disappointed if Kira doesn't have -something- to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsumedai Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I rather doubt accounting is sitting and going "oh noes, sparklecat isn't buying our games anymore, we're ruined!" They should be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 There's a point at which corporate responsibility comes into play, to my mind, and this is it; allowing your subsidiary to treat a minority group you've said you want to be inclusive of in such a manner would reflect badly upon everyone involved, and they all have a responsibility to uphold that commitment. I agree, and I've trimmed your post for matters of brevity rather than dismissal (as I'm sure you guessed), but we don't actually know how much control the overall corporate body has over decisions like this. I agree that they probably have well and truly enough pull to apply a lot of pressure but I don't think we can know for certain. There might be contractual agreements in place stopping that kind of pressure. Either way I guess this is all speculation. Mind you until Bioware updates us everything is speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 They should be! I would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreydin Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 First of all companions is a core feature of this game. Romance is a core feature of companions. Not having sgra in 2012 is just bigotry. I specifically purchased this game based on the availabilty of core content. If they don't implement sgra soon they will have falsely marketed this game and I will have every cent back. Please link to the advertising that was done to promote relationships that pertain to sexual preference and implementation of relationships that are sexual in nature, in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not having sgra in 2012 is just bigotry. I don't personally think the exclusion of SGRAs from launch was a matter of bigotry on BW:A's behalf. I'm reasonably certain it was a business decision made for reasons other than intentional exclusion for the sake of keeping the game gay-free, so to speak. But of course because we haven't actually been given a reason that's all speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsumedai Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 There might be contractual agreements in place stopping that kind of pressure. Sure, but entering into that kind of contractual agreement in the first place is itself an issue of corporate responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emusan Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Please link to the advertising that was done to promote relationships that pertain to sexual preference and implementation of relationships that are sexual in nature, in the game? This seems particularly relevant, when combined with the interviews stating that same gender relationships would be added to the game, it could easily be seen how someones decision to purchase was influenced by the idea of having a same sex relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Sure, but entering into that kind of contractual agreement in the first place is itself an issue of corporate responsibility. Quite true, I'm just pointing out it might not be as clear-cut as we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsumedai Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I don't personally think the exclusion of SGRAs from launch was a matter of bigotry on BW:A's behalf. I'm reasonably certain it was a business decision made for reasons other than intentional exclusion for the sake of keeping the game gay-free, so to speak. At the risk of going off on a tangent: I tend to think the emotional baggage that tends to come with the word 'bigotry' clouds the issue a bit. It's a word that conjures up images of pointy white sheets and the worst inhumanity humanity has to offer. In everyday life, bigotry just isn't like that. It's often subtle and insidious. A lot of bigots are actually really nice, well-meaning people who just happen to hold some very rigid views as to how the world should work. Perhaps prejudice is the better term, since it lacks some of the connotations. I'm finding it really hard to see how leaving out SGRAs at launch could be anything other than prejudice; unconcious, unintentional prejudice, maybe. Probably, I'd say, given BioWare's track record. But prejudice nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Perhaps prejudice is the better term, since it lacks some of the connotations. I'm finding it really hard to see how leaving out SGRAs at launch could be anything other than prejudice; unconcious, unintentional prejudice, maybe. Probably, I'd say, given BioWare's track record. But prejudice nonetheless. I see your point but I really don't know. I can see a few options why they might have felt it necessary to do, for reasons that are neither bigoted nor Bigoted. Unless they tell us specifically why they left it out, though (which they likely won't), we can only guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEpitaph Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Please link to the advertising that was done to promote relationships that pertain to sexual preference and implementation of relationships that are sexual in nature, in the game? http://www.facebook.com/starwarstheoldrepublic http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150575636958860.394973.28984808859&type=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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