AshenK Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The game launched too soon and BioWare has just made tons of bad moves. Lets see we have what's going on with their own forums right now, a video that pats themselves on the back and claims the game is growing. I'm not even going to get into how chances are they gave a nice paycheck to Rooster Teeth for being in that video. There's been barely any bug work or balance work done, only BioWare saying "1.2 will fix it!" and that's about two to three months down the road. The fact is TOR has failed out right. If it didn't have the Star Wars name on it, the game would have pulled an APB by now. And I'm beating when the numbers of people who signed up for the Guild Wars 2 beta comes out your going to see a higher number then 1.7 million. This game is two months old and it's dying a quick death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So here we go with "this game is only 2 months old yadda yadda" instead of "this game is only 1 month old yadda yadda" please...what happens a year from now, is it going to be "this game is only 1 year old yadda yadda"? Game was rushed out to capitalize on Christmas sales and to make up for the 200 mil they had invested in it. The only polished thing that I believe was done right is the class stories, other then that the missing features and the amount of bugs has been atrocious. Long story short, see ya in GW2. Don't lie. You'll be back here tomorrow hoping to kill peoples' enjoyment of this game, just like the rest of the whiners who claim they are "done" with SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlth Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Every MMO has had its issues when it first came out. Everquest 1 and 2 when it first lauched had its issues but through bug reports and feedback it has become one of the best games around. ( I know WOW people would disagree, but seriously go play EQ and your mind will change) Instead of complaining help but putting in bug reports and feedback. Its the community that is driving this game. The Devs are working their behinds off trying to fix the known issues, but how can somehting be fixed if they don't know about it. Its not like they are sitting in front of multiple monitors watching everyone play - That would be creepy - Those who think this game should be perfect the moment it comes out need to go back to Single player games and leave us MMO players in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromiie Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Don't lie. You'll be back here tomorrow hoping to kill peoples' enjoyment of this game, just like the rest of the whiners who claim they are "done" with SWTOR. I'm done with TOR for now. I run out of time today and won't be back until I see significant improvements to player customization and crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud_Kernow Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Sometimes i think the genre as a whole has changed beyond all recognition and i wish MMORPG's would go back into the shadows and back to being a gaming underclass. It really was more fun then. Or i am willing to concede that maybe I have changed. This is the mmo i want to play right now: http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20100402_001 unfortunately, i am not feeling the experience is as described, if you feel you are getting what was sold then i am delighted for you. However i cant help feeling slightly cheated and thats where the anger comes from. This of course is my perception and i know this, but then so are all words.. the authors own opinion nothing more than that. Sooo 2 months in, where are we? well i know where i am frankly i couldn't care a less what anyone else thinks, but after reading endless posts buy fanboys and haters there is actually one uniting factor: Strong feelings about this game. I dont see many haters wanting the game to fail it is more disappointment than anything, why haters cant hate on hate posts, and fans post on pro posts and keep the **** out of eachothers way i have no idea. The trouble is everyone of us has our own playstyles and likes and dislikes, and MMO's in their very nature amplify this, and we very often people arguing the same point but from a completely different perspective. Lets look at generalised playstyles of an MMO : 1) PvE : Raider/story content 2) PvP 3) Crafter 4) Explorer 5) RP Now most players like more than 1 of those and when you think about it most have sub-sections withing them (see 1). The COMMUNITY is comprised of players that like a combination of those components. Now i must as a player decide where i get my enjoyments out of those, weigh up what the game offers and see if i wish to play it or not. Now here is my order of play style preference : PvP, Crafter. RP +exploring. I despise PvE play and only use it for a specific suppose, IE gear drop or material etc or just to get levelled. SO what does TOR offer me? Its strength is by far and away the storyline and PvE. there are lots of raids Of which there varying degrees of feedback about the hardcore say they are too easy... i dunno i dont do them, the thought of gear grinding as endgame content makes me cold. I did not play WoW ever because of this. So right from the start, TOR's strengths do not cater for my preferred play style. But i must give props where it is due.... my first 1-49 levelling put a smile on my face like no game has for a long time. PvP? By far and away the worst PvP experience i have had, made worse by the one thing i liked and thats using hybrid skill sets..... this meant that there were optimal sets but actually very few terrible ones. The announcement that my class (jedi shadow) probably the least moaned about class in game get a nerf making hybrids a bad move. (it was against the design intentions to have hybrids) tells me that that PvP really is an after thought and is cookie cutter by design. The rest? exploring? nope world are not big, and you get jumped by a mob spawn every 5 meters. Crafting: been done to death a serious crafter, the type that will devote a whole account to being the best gatherer of the best resources to get the best stats, to earn a server wide rep as a go to person for equipment is never going to happen in this game. I used to feel an enormous sense of achievement in SWG as everyday i would have a mailbox full of people wanting either my stuff or premium resources i spent hours/days looking for. RP- oh dear. no immersion tools whatsoever. IT is my opinion what is wrong with this game is not so much the content, its that little bit extra, what to do when not raiding or PvP'ing. In my opinion endgame content is a mix of ingredients, its socialising and community building. Once you get to endgame there is no real connection between you, your character and the environment. There is no internal politics and rivalry across the factions. When on Ilum i dont see the reds as players, they feel the same as NPC mobs, just fight a little smarter. Community is severly lacking, even the roleplayers are struggling to keep it credible. Once you realise that the awesome story mode makes no difference to the game world whatsoever, the only reason to worry about light dark alignment is a few trinkets on the vendors. It all comes back to connection with the environment. I just cannot connect to this game in a way that will keep me here for years. Even metagaming has its place in creating immersion and we certainly wont see any of that here. To me a persistent world is one that, lives, breathes and evolves, i dont see that here. No i will not **** and post elsewhere i paid for 6 months and im sticking around because i care and want so badly for this game to be the game i want to play. I dont think this is a bad game as such, i think it is lacking in many key areas, i dont think it has lived up to the hype, including that done by the devs ( see link above if you havnt read it), I am taking a break, i hope i see some of the things changed but i thing this game will never support my preferred playstyle, i hope i am wrong and all the fans can say 'We told you so'. Oh i can make a post about warhammers closed beta and release ( i was in the first wave of invites) and the similarites are remarkable in PvP terms. just saying. I love Star wars, in 1977 it was the first movie i saw at the cinema and have been in love ever since. I love Biowares games Baldurs is epic, and KOTOR is the most replayed game i have, and i keep my original xbox just to play this game still. Please believe i have no wish for this game to fail and want this game to be everything for everyone. I will never stop following it. BUT BW must get away from this story focus and take a serious look at what players do when not raiding or PVP'ing, no one wants to be on the go all the time for years on end. Unfortunately i dont think the framework can support anything other than raiding and PVP or it would be there or at least acknowledged on some level. that makes me a sad panda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brekehan Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Intelligent people realize there are aspects of a software release that are not going to change no matter how many years pass. For example, the graphics quality, which is for the most part tied to the 3rd party engine. For example, the core mechanics of combat. Meanwhile fanbois defend game titles with: "It just came out a week ago" "It just came out a a month ago" "It just came out a year ago" "This is only the 5th major patch" "Who cares anymore, title X is coming out in Christmas" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berazad Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 People need to learn the facts of life be it a video game or something in real life, throughout our history empires have risen and fallen but these empires did not spring up over night they took time to form just as all things in this world does that includes video games. Ghengis Khan did not instantly unify the mongol tribes, it took time.The Roman Empire did not instantly spring up it took years of war to solidify itself.The British Empire wasn't formed over night. People hate real life comparison to games, i'm aware of this however this serves the point i'm trying to put across, all things take time, if bioware continue to have these problems 4 months from now then yes, the game would of shot itself in the foot and deserves everything it gets. Biowares reaction to the bugs / loading screens / [insert something your displeased over] will judge how this story plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzle_flash Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ..............Please believe i have no wish for this game to fail and want this game to be everything for everyone. I will never stop following it. BUT BW must get away from this story focus and take a serious look at what players do when not raiding or PVP'ing, no one wants to be on the go all the time for years on end. Unfortunately i dont think the framework can support anything other than raiding and PVP or it would be there or at least acknowledged on some level. that makes me a sad panda. Took a few mins to read through that one , though I would have to say this is a very similar feeling to my own. The point about "that extra bit, when youre not raiding or pvping" really rings true, at least for me. I do hope things get better down the road, but for now, things are broken and need fixing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knewt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) It cracks me up to see people trying to say that a game launched now, should have all the bells and whistles of other mmo's. There is a cost to production, and every mmo is going to launch with the bare minimum so as to recoup their expenses as soon as possible. That gives them time and money to flesh out weak areas. It cost blizzard an enormous amount of money to reach the level they did, but it was justified by their income. You're right, comparing TOR to WoW is unfair. Instead of WoW, we should be comparing TOR to Rift. Rift was released less than a year ago (March 1, 2011), had a more stable game, more features and has added features over the first year. They did all of this with less development time and a significantly smaller budget. Heck, it was considered a huge deal that they received $80 million in VC money. That's less than half the low end estimate for how much TOR cost to make. If a relatively small development shop can develop a full featured MMO, why can't Bioware? Edited February 23, 2012 by Knewt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodtau Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Face it, the game is going to die.With both Tera AND guild wars 2 out in mere months, those two games combined will crush star wars. Quit now and don't waste any more of your money filling EA's greedy little pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodtau Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The game launched too soon and BioWare has just made tons of bad moves. Lets see we have what's going on with their own forums right now, a video that pats themselves on the back and claims the game is growing. I'm not even going to get into how chances are they gave a nice paycheck to Rooster Teeth for being in that video. There's been barely any bug work or balance work done, only BioWare saying "1.2 will fix it!" and that's about two to three months down the road. The fact is TOR has failed out right. If it didn't have the Star Wars name on it, the game would have pulled an APB by now. And I'm beating when the numbers of people who signed up for the Guild Wars 2 beta comes out your going to see a higher number then 1.7 million. This game is two months old and it's dying a quick death. ^ Exactly this. See you in the Gw2 beta guys and gals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grueber Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Already a bunch of threads like this. I was not bored of vanilla WoW in 2 months after launch. I am bored of swtor. I'm not sure if the WoW forums 2 months post launch were filled with posts from people unhappy with the game. I was too busy having fun to read the forums. And before one of you fanbois says "go play WoW" I stopped playing years ago. I'm just going to play the stack of single player games I have yet to go through until ME3 is released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaa Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) You're right, comparing TOR to WoW is unfair. Instead of WoW, we should be comparing TOR to Rift. Rift was released less than a year ago (March 1, 2011), had a more stable game, more features and has added features over the first year. They did all of this with less development time and a significantly smaller budget. Heck, it was considered a huge deal that they received $80 million in VC money. That's less than half the low end estimate for how much TOR cost to make. If a relatively small development shop can develop a full featured MMO, why can't Bioware? This is my gripe. I'll give Bioware the fact this is the biggest capacity taking MMO ever created but most of that is just voiced worked and story. Which is fine I suppose. However, when I look at other MMOs and see they worked with WAY less of a budget (WoW, Rift, Warhammer etc didn't cost anywhere near this MMO), I have to wonder if all of the money just went to the voice acting. Though I am pretty sure we all know the answer to that. I think what this game is at the moment will NEVER change. They can add more "instanced" content which will continue to make the game feel like a big waiting room. Every patch will break something and because the "space" in the game is so small and linear it will ALWAYS be noticed. Yes, I do think this game has potentinal. Just like ALL MMOs do. But the game only does what the developers tell it to do and these devs seem PRETTY clueless on which direction, if any, they want to go with the game. I've played ALOT of MMOS and I can honestly say this one has frustrated me the most when it comes to gameplay. I was happy when they started patching but if we are getting things like 1.1 and untested crap, I don't need it. It's now as if every patch, you already know for sure something will be wrong with the game. I don't want more "content". I want the game to be FIXED and playable so I don't have to struggle with the game to play for an hour or two. Hey, I like Mass Effect series and Star Wars too but that doesn't blind me to what THIS game is. Edited February 23, 2012 by Tiaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehoornde Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 OP is right and all and I agree 100% but other games with nothing to do 2 months after release were way, way, waaaaaaay less boring than SWTOR, 2 months after release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cujojax Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I understand that people kill content quick these days...however there is no way on this planet SWTOR was EVER gonna launch with 27 raids 67 dungeons 8 battlegrounds I dont think most people expect that, I for one don't and it would be completely unreasonable. I think what most people are asking for is not more content, but rather BASIC FEATURES. well get a combat log eventually when things get ironed out, can you imagine if they put in a recount now?! these forums would blow up with nerf this and that and honestly, at this time, I dont believe BW is capable of handling balancing issues on top of everything else. Edited February 23, 2012 by cujojax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redat Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I have been around for quite a few betas/launches and I can impart a few gems of wisdom to those who read this. 1) TOR is BY FAR the smoothest MMo launch I has ever witnessed. 2) TOR has the most content I have EVER seen a game launch with. 3) Until TOR I have NEVER seen an MMo where there was no grind. Now, I see plenty of nay sayers and trolls on these boards, loadsa kids from WoW and other games telling everyone who will listen thier tales and opinions. However they cannot escape these facts, TOR is the best MMo at launch that anyone has ever seen, has more content at launch and looks to be in the top running for a long time to come. I have heard the usual "WoW clone" jibes and comparisons yet they are flawed comparisons, IF TOR was a wow clone they would have released it 3 years ago with no content........ The WoW generation makes me wanna spit sometimes, they burn through content and yap about nothing to do, while us normal people are quietly lvl our toons havin a great time. They should stop being petulant and get a life. The devs have done a great job, show some respect and maturity or go back to wow where your attitude will be appreciated. Edited February 23, 2012 by Redat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) ^ Exactly this. See you in the Gw2 beta guys and gals! Can't wait for it to be a let down. Hope you have fun. See you either back here or in WoW when you're disappoint. The company lies! It inflates its numbers and bribes players to speak well about the game! I'm half expecting you children to begin claiming something outlandish about the Government. Edited February 23, 2012 by LucisAbyssus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degarmo Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Can't wait for it to be a let down. Hope you have fun. See you either back here or in WoW when you're disappoint. It's not going to be a letdown though. There will be plenty to complain about, and that's the true joy for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's not going to be a letdown though. There will be plenty to complain about, and that's the true joy for many. Compared to the last game they made, how I see it shaping up now, and what it directly has to compete with, it's going to be a let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) This is my gripe. I'll give Bioware the fact this is the biggest capacity taking MMO ever created but most of that is just voiced worked and story. Which is fine I suppose. However, when I look at other MMOs and see they worked with WAY less of a budget (WoW, Rift, Warhammer etc didn't cost anywhere near this MMO), I have to wonder if all of the money just went to the voice acting. Though I am pretty sure we all know the answer to that. I think what this game is at the moment will NEVER change. They can add more "instanced" content which will continue to make the game feel like a big waiting room. Every patch will break something and because the "space" in the game is so small and linear it will ALWAYS be noticed. Yes, I do think this game has potentinal. Just like ALL MMOs do. But the game only does what the developers tell it to do and these devs seem PRETTY clueless on which direction, if any, they want to go with the game. I've played ALOT of MMOS and I can honestly say this one has frustrated me the most when it comes to gameplay. I was happy when they started patching but if we are getting things like 1.1 and untested crap, I don't need it. It's now as if every patch, you already know for sure something will be wrong with the game. I don't want more "content". I want the game to be FIXED and playable so I don't have to struggle with the game to play for an hour or two. Hey, I like Mass Effect series and Star Wars too but that doesn't blind me to what THIS game is. SW:TOR took around 80 million. WoW took around 63 million to develop initially. SW:TOR launched with more content and broke the world record for voice acting in entertainment history with over 500,000 lines of dialogue. If you don't really know how large that is, a game like Dragon Age has an average of 50-60 thousand lines of dialogue. You don't like the game? Get off the forums, stop paying for it, cancel your subscription. Nothing you say in this post has been constructive, it's just pointing out "obvious travesties" you tend to dislike about the game in its current state. Just because you've "played a lot of MMO's" doesn't mean you're a professional in the business. Most of us have played lots of MMO's too, you're not a special snowflake that knows everything. "It's now as if every patch, you already know for sure something will be wrong with the game." Insisting that 1.1.3/1.1.4 is enough data to conclude such an outlandish blanket statement. MFW -> Edited February 23, 2012 by LucisAbyssus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildestroyer Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Warhammer Online release date Sept 18 2008, on November 18 2008 people were saying "This game is TWO MONTHS OLD"............. and now look at it. The first two months are critical for any mmo these days. You fail the first two months and everyone will leave in flocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzurps Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) There were some basic features and design choices that SWTOR should have been released with... that WoW had... one of them being better FPS. Edited February 23, 2012 by Sizzurps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Warhammer Online release date Sept 18 2008, on November 18 2008 people were saying "This game is TWO MONTHS OLD"............. and now look at it. The first two months are critical for any mmo these days. You fail the first two months and everyone will leave in flocks. WAR released with the unfulfilled promise of a capital city for each race and multiple bug fixes that were being worked on in beta. Do not compare WAR to SW:TOR release. Especially when SW:TOR had a much more smooth launch. The only thing "bumpy" would have to be the constant whining I see on the forums of all the people who are incapable of rolling on servers with more people on them, and the lack of UI customization. The lack of UI customization I can understand. If your server doesn't have enough people on it, and you're a level 50 waiting all day to do something, make a new character on a higher populated server and wait until they bring in server transfers. It's not that hard. Do not expect SW:TOR to have everything these 5-7 Year old MMO's have been given over the course of their time in two to three months. It's just not going to happen. I'll smile when you all come back for Guild Capital Ships though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If any of you have been around launches of other MMOs (which I doubt many people here have), you come to realize that they aren't going to be perfect at launch. An MMO is a living, breathing game that evolves over time. Every single feature you want or have seen in other games will often be added in at a later date once they fix the most pressing post-launch issues. Let's look at the launch of WOW. World of Warcraft WOW has had SEVEN years to add content. SWTOR has had two months. Can you imagine how much better this game will be even a year from now? But I digress. Does anyone remember the awful lag issues WOW had at launch? I sure as hell do. Many servers were crashing for a long period of time over and over. Lag, loot lag, falling through the world, etc. Queue times were often an hour or more. The game was often unplayable at times until WOW had time to fix hardware issues. SWTOR has actually done better than WOW in this regard. WOW actually had to give some people free days because the lag was so bad and the servers were so unstable. I think WOW had one or two raids? There weren't any battlesgrounds. There weren't a lot of things. (blah blah blah WOW was released in 2004 SWTOR should have all the features it does blah blah blah ) No, it shouldn't SWTOR is a unique game that will add it's own content. I personally love this game. I sincerely enjoy playing it. Those who don't are more likely to be vocal about it on the forums. I never see any of this "I hate SWTOR" chat in game. Launch is a difficult time for ANY MMO, and SWTOR has actually done better than just about any MMO I've seen before. This game isn't WOW and it never will be. Don't expect it to have all the features you love from WOW 2 MONTHS after launch. Give this game time to work out the few bugs there are and add a bit of content over the upcoming months and this will be the best MMO there is. Bottom line, MMOs take time to develop and add content and this is one of the smoothest MMO launches I've been around. I went to buy a new car today.. I asked why there was a cassette tape and not a cd player.. no airbags, no power steering, old roll down windows, the brakes were not power and didnt have abs. There was also no AC and the transmission only came in standard shift. They told me that its a new car and that they would do a recall later to update it to what most cars have today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisAbyssus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 There were some basic features and design choices that SWTOR should have been released with... that WoW had... one of them being better FPS. WoW at release had terrible FPS issues with high population areas. Don't make me mention Ironforge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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