No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[Snoodmaster]

This is not a problem with the system but people. Just as they would be in queue waiting for a healer they could invite the people and wait for a healer to join but they don't want to do that do they?

 

The problem isn't with people. The problem is the requirement of manually checking and refreshing the LFG tool to see when someone of the right spec and characteristics checks in. With an automated system, you just flag yourself and go about your business. With the manual system you are proposing, you have to sit there with the screen open and refresh it constantly until that healer gets in. Which, to the person trying to find a group, is just as frustrating and time-wasting as spamming general chat.

 

It then snowballs as more people try the system, get frustrated with it, and then go back to spamming general chat. Until the perception of LFG being useless becomes the reality.

[Nippon]

Yanno, I once asked a friend of me who has played WoW for years if the LFG tool really did kill the community like everyone said. His response was "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA What community?!"

 

I think that says everything.

 

This.....

 

X server LFG is not needed at all in the game, just merge the server's and add some better social tool's, so people in open world can actually speak to each other without relying on the chat box...

 

Needless to say they cannot even get the Flashpoints and OPs to work properly on a single server let alone merging them..

 

There are bigger issue's with the game than the ability to find a group....If you cant then join a guild or make some friends...If your not interested in either of those then what do you need a Tool for in the first place.

[Nippon]

Those who are against cross-server, or a lfg tool in general, clearly have not tried forming groups when there are 7 people TOTAL on the fleet. Aside from a 49 and 50, no one was within 5 levels of another player. I couldn't spam chat even if I wanted to (well I suppose I could but I think you get my point). This whole argument about cross-server lfg killing communities is about as well reasoned as "the sky is falling". The idea that players somehow police themselves and that if a player behaves poorly there are repercussions is more or less a myth.

 

As someone pointed out, if you're running a FP now and someone is either a jerk or really bad and just wanting to be carried, there's almost nothing you can do during the run. If you kick them out of the group you either have to go back and spam chat looking for someone to run a half-finished run or trying to finish it shorthanded. Sure, when you get back you can complain to everyone in the fleet, and maybe some people will listen to/care about what you have to say, but that person IS going to find more groups.

 

Well next time try playing on a server that fit's your game time, we have a guy from the US in our European guild because of his working hours, his playtime coincide's with our Peak time...

 

There is never an issue with getting a group if you join a guild or make some friends, Jesus you need to find 3 people.....And you need a tool for that LOL...

[Etilrellim]

I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me.

 

 

You have to have a community to destroy first. Low pop is low pop!

[Devlonir]

Why do so many points get down to: cross server vs spamming general in fleet? It is not as black and white as people try to make it.

 

And why does every reasonable suggestion like: "single server first, and maybe it will go the Rift way and eventually do require cross server, or maybe they will consolidate servers to ensure quicker queues" - type responses get crowded over with either lovers or haters of cross server tools.

 

Single (or cross eventually) server, automated LFG queue for Flashpoints is something that would improve the amount of effort spent into forming groups. That is a simple fact.

 

But when it comes to heroic quests, especially the levelling kind, a cross server tool simply cannot exist. Considering many of them are out in the world and not in their own Instance. The current tool is clearly not good enough. But an improvement can be made with a single server 'quest queue' system where (for example from the quest log) you can put yourself forward as someone looking for a Heroic quest group and the game just matches you with someone who is doing the same. How this functionality works exactly is hard to imagine because there are many limitations to how you can match and group up people out in the world to do a quest out in the world compared to grouping up people looking for a Flashpoint.

 

Still, the current system is not good enough and something needs to be done. I am still in the camp that says it does not have to be a cross server tool, but a better tool is needed. I would prefer either an automated queue (aka: the WoW/Rift version) or a better 'notice board' functionality than they have now. Where people can just offer themselves for Flashpoints regardless of where they are in the game world. And not this current, crappy system where you can only see people that are LFG in the same planet as you are.

[DarthKhaos]

The sorriest excuse for a LFG tool I have ever experienced. I used it exclusively since the beginning, but now no longer even bother with it. Waste of time and effort. BW clearly had nothing in mind and just threw that together so no one could say they didn't have one. Sad.

 

Anyone who brings this up has either never used it, or never had to rely upon it to get fp groups.

Man you need to chillax. I never said the current LFG tool is awesome. A guy did up a nice concept check it out in this thread Group Mission Queue (Dungeon Finder) Pane Concept he even included an image of the Concept LFG Tool for us to see. This is the kind of things I was talking about.

[Kinrain]

A Cross Server LFG tool would be a terrible idea and i'm very pleased that BW have stuck to their guns on this one.

 

I am not opposed to a LFG tool thats restricted to our own servers.

 

In WoW (which is the only game i've played with a cross server LFG tool) it was a hideous experience. People's behaviour went from, in general, friendly co-operation overnight, into either total silence or downright unfriendly rudeness.

 

Now i'm a mature, decent player that knows what i'm doing and makes an effort to speak to my groups and be friendly, I do not expect to be sworn at when a DPS pulls aggro before i've even pulled which happened on more than one occasion.

 

I was a tank and wouldn't spend more than 20 seconds waiting for a group but my DPS friends used to have to wait for ages. And the quality of those groups was so bad it was one of the main reasons I quit wow 18 months or so ago.

 

A Cross server LFG tool is not the way to solve issues with server imbalance.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Kinrain

[Darkwords]

All I know is that I spend too many hours standing in Fleet on my Jedi saying LFG for heroics/FPs, etc. It's a tad better Sith side however, the Jedi is my main and I am not going to buffer the frustration by making more alts just to hit the same roadblock at 50.

 

There is no "community" here such as Bioware dreams of. When I was guilded the same buddy real life friends always ran together leaving others to flounder alone so please, make it easier for the rest of us to get our groups done, see end game and have fun by instating a global LFG/LFR componant. I won't stay playing if I can't enjoy the end game content.

 

BTW, I have played WoW for over 7 years and the LFG/LFR was the best thing instituted. I much prefer those groups than to join another "guild run" on my server that has maybe 8 or 9 of their members rolling need on items they don't need or already have and then trading the item to their guildie. I avoid those groups that say "guild run" looking for 1 more, etc, like the plague lol. Bioware will have to add in some kind of loot policing code to ensure that the players can only roll a need on an item they can use.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Darkwords

[theoffspringlp]

Well next time try playing on a server that fit's your game time, we have a guy from the US in our European guild because of his working hours, his playtime coincide's with our Peak time...

 

There is never an issue with getting a group if you join a guild or make some friends, Jesus you need to find 3 people.....And you need a tool for that LOL...

 

Except this was 9pm est on an east coast server. If I had been trying to log on at say midnight I'd see your point, but trying to find 3 other people to group with when there's only 6 others to choose from the odds of finding a group of appropriate composition and level are incredibly low.

[Juanxlink]

A Cross Server LFG tool would be a terrible idea and i'm very pleased that BW have stuck to their guns on this one.

 

I am not opposed to a LFG tool thats restricted to our own servers.

 

In WoW (which is the only game i've played with a cross server LFG tool) it was a hideous experience. People's behaviour went from, in general, friendly co-operation overnight, into either total silence or downright unfriendly rudeness.

 

Now i'm a mature, decent player that knows what i'm doing and makes an effort to speak to my groups and be friendly, I do not expect to be sworn at when a DPS pulls aggro before i've even pulled which happened on more than one occasion.

 

I was a tank and wouldn't spend more than 20 seconds waiting for a group but my DPS friends used to have to wait for ages. And the quality of those groups was so bad it was one of the main reasons I quit wow 18 months or so ago.

 

A Cross server LFG tool is not the way to solve issues with server imbalance.

 

Nice oppinion, sadly, we need facts. And theres none tying the LFG tool to the people's stupidity, next?

[Snoodmaster]

Man you need to chillax. I never said the current LFG tool is awesome. A guy did up a nice concept check it out in this thread Group Mission Queue (Dungeon Finder) Pane Concept he even included an image of the Concept LFG Tool for us to see. This is the kind of things I was talking about.

 

That's a nice workup, but it suffers from the same issues that the current system does. Specifically, it requires people to manually refresh the list to see if new groups for their missions form.

 

If we're going to start spitballing ideas to make heroic missions easier, I say why not automatically add you to the queue when you pick up the quest? They could put a checkbox in the mission log that will remove you from the queue or put you in, next to each heroic mission. The benefits of this is that by putting the onus on the player to remove himself from the queue, most people who are ambivalent or lazy will just stay in the queue, increasing the number of people available to group with.

[Aepervius]

I had as many bad experience with PUGing with jerks, as I had with cross server LFG. The fact is that there is the same proportion of jerk on all server, and nearly all of them do not care about this elusive "reputation" or "community".

 

In fact having played before the LFG tools in WOW the community was as good before and after (note that I am not saying it was a good community....). I think a lot of people are having pink colored glasses when they say LFG tool killed community. What it changed is that some jack booted jerk in some guild lost some or all their power to force decision onto other player. It killed a whole slew of little kappo in guild tabbar thinking what they said was the supreme word.

[Jederix]

LFD server only, not cross server.

Look what cross server brought to Wow.

 

afk people

rude people (there always be some but now even more because they arent on the same server)

kick system

kick abuse

 

bla bla

 

Why do people always forget that...it gives blizzard a headache

 

No one forgot that, because it isn't true. These people all existed long before the dungeon finder in WoW. In the years that I've been using the dungeon finder, I can probably count on one hand the number of "actual" ninja looters and "bads" that I played with that made a lasting impression on me.

 

The only thing that a LFD might have done was make it easier to get stuck with terrible people because grouping became suddenly easier. It didn't create these people.

 

I say, Cross Server LFD in this game ASAP. I have no desire to play any of the games flashpoints without one.

[Jederix]

Not everyone who plays a MMO cares about having the "community feel" on a server. They play to have fun and have real life " community feel" concerns to deal with. A LFG tool helps those to find groups to do content they otherwise would not have the time to do. My guild in WoW for example has not lost any of it's community feel sence Blizz has added the LFG tool , mainly because we are a guild which knows real life concerns come first and we play to have fun, not to develope relationships in a MMO.

 

I think you have found the crux of the issue, the "real" underlying issue with the LFD.

 

Basically, there are really 2 camps of players. Those of us who want the tool are more about playing the game than we are about other players. As long as we have a quick, efficient way to play all aspects of the game, we are content. We worry very little about what other players have or what they are doing. A LFD fosters this.

 

The other camp of players, the "community builders", play these games for the people, or rather, "their" people. They are more interested in protecting themselves from a vast majority of the players (whom they consider bad), more interested in setting up cliques of players at the top who can impose their will on the other players on the server. They want to control how much of the game these "other players" get to play, how much gear they get to collect, and the guilds they can join. And a LFD tool removes this ability from them.

 

These are just my observations; I'm sure many people won't agree, but that is the funny thing about opinions, not everyone thinks they are all good.

[Cxeepfire]

My ideas:

 

ISSUES:

 

• Cross-realm scheme degrades the social community
  
• Automatic "push a button to get a group" degrades the social community
  
• Flooding general chat with LFG is a big problem, and it ruins the social chat on the server
  
• Current LFG comment in /who is not being used
  

 

 

SOLUTIONS:

 

• Drop the cross-realm idea
  
• Make a new interface menu for finding people (usability of current system is a joke)
  
• Use the interface to send invite with a small (mandatory) text explaining what it is for etc. (no direct invites without even saying hello!)
  

 

This should be the simplest thing to implement. It is just changing the /who LFG comment into a seperate menu, with better overview (sort by flashpoint etc) and invite/pm functionality.

[Akash]

Cross Realm LFG brought the community together in Rift. It made the community game-wide instead of server wide. It's been a big bonus over there.

 

So why was it such a negative experience in WoW and such a positive experience in Rift? (as seems to be the general consensus). And what can developers learn from the success of a system like this in Rift and a seeming failure in WoW?

[Akash]

I think you have found the crux of the issue, the "real" underlying issue with the LFD.

 

Basically, there are really 2 camps of players. Those of us who want the tool are more about playing the game than we are about other players. As long as we have a quick, efficient way to play all aspects of the game, we are content. We worry very little about what other players have or what they are doing. A LFD fosters this.

 

The other camp of players, the "community builders", play these games for the people, or rather, "their" people. They are more interested in protecting themselves from a vast majority of the players (whom they consider bad), more interested in setting up cliques of players at the top who can impose their will on the other players on the server. They want to control how much of the game these "other players" get to play, how much gear they get to collect, and the guilds they can join. And a LFD tool removes this ability from them.

 

These are just my observations; I'm sure many people won't agree, but that is the funny thing about opinions, not everyone thinks they are all good.

 

 

After reading this post, I think you make some valid points.

[Hurkan]

Clock is ticking...

 

- Server only LFG tool is way better than the LFG tool we have today.

- A GLOBAL LFG chat channel is way better than we have today.

- 1.2 in April, LFG tool only in 1.3, that means what? July? What?

- Meanwhile my server rocks 50 ppl at the station in primetime (yesterday 30 people, but I will have to blame Barcelona game for that).

- Server merges will give a bad image to the public so they will not do it.

- Free transfers will generate empty servers, empty servers will give a bad image to the public so they will not do it (maybe later, but you'll have to pay, after all this is EA).

 

You (BW) really have to do something fast.

Clock is ticking...

Edited March 8, 2012 by Hurkan

[chemela]

I know the perks to having cross server LFG and whatnot, but honestly it kills the community and i really wish people could understand that.

 

Make friends with the people on your server =/

 

My answer is WHAT COMMUNITY ?

MY server is empty like almost every server in europe the majority of the servers are light, even to do a crapy warzone i have to waite 15 to 30 minutes on pic hours, and after 23H00 is a nightmare to do a warzone.

For FLASPOINTS or heroics its imposseble to find anyone to do it, because the fleet its empty its a ghost fleet this days.

I know now the fanboy will say reroll on another server.

The answer should be cross LFG or server merges and transfers.

[DarthKhaos]

That's a nice workup, but it suffers from the same issues that the current system does. Specifically, it requires people to manually refresh the list to see if new groups for their missions form.

 

If we're going to start spitballing ideas to make heroic missions easier, I say why not automatically add you to the queue when you pick up the quest? They could put a checkbox in the mission log that will remove you from the queue or put you in, next to each heroic mission. The benefits of this is that by putting the onus on the player to remove himself from the queue, most people who are ambivalent or lazy will just stay in the queue, increasing the number of people available to group with.

Not necessarily it could auto update. Also you can passively wait for people to join your group or actively look for people to invite. If I'm using it I'd look at what groups are available for me to join. If none I'd consider forming my own group from the players that are available and wait for the last couple of slots to be filled by people looking or checking back from time to time to see if anyone is available to invite. If I do not wish to form my own group I can wait for an invite with my name and role listed for other players to see.

[DarthKhaos]

The other camp of players, the "community builders", play these games for the people, or rather, "their" people. They are more interested in protecting themselves from a vast majority of the players (whom they consider bad), more interested in setting up cliques of players at the top who can impose their will on the other players on the server. They want to control how much of the game these "other players" get to play, how much gear they get to collect, and the guilds they can join. And a LFD tool removes this ability from them.

Talk about overblown nonsense. Yea they want to control you...

 

I think you dropped this tin foil hat.

[Nitewolfe]

It's internet group-think, it comes from the WoW-hate cult and its amazing ability to radiate its thoughts to the unthinking through catch phrases. Politicians use the same technique, gullible people will start to think whatever you tell them to think if you drive the thought home hard enough, repeat the phrase constantly and never deviate from topic.

 

Nevertheless, my heart goes out to those who get all excited to log on and get something going only to log off two hours later with an empty feeling. I recommend using the same technique, come up with a catch phrase and abuse it in every dialogue, every channel available to you. Bioware may take notice of you at some point, or you can lead with your money and let EA take notice before Bioware does.

 

Spot on!

The wow hate cult also moves from new game to new game spewing their hate doing their level best to insure the game fails.

[AislingKerrigan]

Bioware - ignore the OP.

 

The low pop servers NEED cross-SERVER(this isn't WoW.. stop calling them realms) queueing for both WZs and FPs.

[thorizdin]

BioWare saw merit to not implement X-server. Case closed. Unsub or enjoy!

 

 

This is a patently ridiculous statement. We know the end result, no cross server LFG tool, but none of us know _why_ that path was taken. It could be that the designers agree with you or it could be that the designers would prefer a cross server tool but the technical challenges were too high for the return.

 

For everyone who claims that cross server functions harm community, I'd like to know what your opinion is of games that don't have sharded servers. Is it better for "community" for everyone to be in one large server instance or separated into some number of separate instances of the same game world? Why?

Edited March 8, 2012 by thorizdin

[Quip]

Cross Realm LFG brought the community together in Rift. It made the community game-wide instead of server wide. It's been a big bonus over there.

 

So why was it such a negative experience in WoW and such a positive experience in Rift? (as seems to be the general consensus). And what can developers learn from the success of a system like this in Rift and a seeming failure in WoW?

 

 

I think people fear it because in truth, Blizzard made instances cross server but not friends lists, or ignore, or chat. All to protect they pay for transfer market, Trion didn't bother with any such measures because they had no transfer market to protect.

 

I have watched some very good guilds form when players who were doing random instances together decided to all move to the same server to play together more. Though i would still like to see a more robust set of cross-server tools.

 

Of course I didn't move, I'm on Wolfsbane, the best server in any MMO ever.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Quip