Sorcerers, seriously what the hell?

[Telaan]

Do you read yourself? You throw guard on sentinel and healer keep him up and he kills 3 sorcs which has no clue -- what it proves? Get 3 equal skill team up sorcs, and your healer is dead, then your sent is dead, then you are dead in a matter of minute.

 

Please, spare me of such arguments.

 

Yea sometimes; but, more often then not...no. The dynamics are constantly shifting in PvP but a good healer/tank/dps team will DOMINATE 3 sorc a majority of the time. My guardian has a lot of good force multiplying utility. It's really a learn to play issue.

[GrandMike]

Ooooh, and i like this line of thinking:

 

When i kill a sorc its because im great and sorc sucks.

 

When i get killd by sorc its because sorc is OP.

 

[FarizAA]

Seems you are not on top of the game.

 

Theres a lot of room for improvement

 

I do for sure, that is why I am playing Sentinel and enjoy it, and VoD my fights and watch other VoDs and trying to be better.

 

But it is very strange to hear such advice from person who plays easy mode faction and easy mode class.

Edited February 27, 2012 by FarizAA

[biowareftw]

I have a valor 60 guardian. I too have a solid grasp of PvP in this game. Sorc/Sage are fine, and FAR from op in a team setting. If you don't see it you are bad. I throw guard on a sent and watch him roll through 3-4 sorc while a healer keeps him up.

 

Does your solid grasp of the game (what a scrub) tell you that root on knockback does not effect resolve and works on full resolve people?

 

Does it also tell you that on non pve rp servers (which you probably are on) people run 4-6 stacked hybrid sorc deep (and republic are leveling alts to do the same)?

 

Why the hell would you put guard on the one person in the warzone who is never going to hit his target.

 

The non hybrid balance/madness spec isn't grossly op (you know the people who actually go 31 points into a tree like all the other classes). Perhaps you still have idiots who run this spec (because the hybrid spec ALSO does slightly more DMG then the pure specs).

 

The hybrid spec with root on knockback and STUN on their soft cc when it breaks early? Gamebreaking.

 

I have played against a team of 5 hybrid sorc a tank and 2 healers where I literally sat in CC the whole game. Stunned into instant cast mez that stuns on dmg into root. Resolve full (this is if I am getting healed because I am dead by then if no heals). What is my full resolve bar good for? Nothing. Because I am sitting in a root while it ticks down. Then the cc chain repeats itself.

 

The problem gets worse with every hybrid sorc added and melee that aren't tanks become more and more useless with each hybrid sorc added.

 

PvP is simply broken for melee until the hybrid spec is made unplayable. On teams where every class is represented and you don't stack ranged with knockbacks? Yes melee are fine.

 

To bad this doesn't happen in a real world scenario, because everyone already rerolled sage/sorc and merc/commando...

 

Just because sent/marauders who are MUCH BETTER PLAYERS THEN YOUR GUARDBOT SELF can top dmg? That means jack. It means the ranged in that warzone are HORRIBLE. I can top ranged slightly by 50-100k many times. Guess what...I can top them by 300 k playing sage/sorc. While herp derping it up, and never being touced for more then 2 seconds (not enough to even break my shield) by melee. That is just by myself. In a sorc stack? They will literally quit the warzone. There is no reason for them to sit in roots that bypass resolve for the entire game.

 

So yes on horrible servers where people play their class wrong, spec wrong and you play well, you can dominate on a sent/marauder. Any decent sorc/sage can kite a marauder around for 40-45 seconds and more with LOS. Now add multiple roots on knockback that work through resolve...

 

Get a clue guy. This is the worst balanced melee/range game I have ever seen. The only reason some melee (as dps spec, since tanking spec is fine for guarding healers) are even viable is due to the idiots playing the range. They are some of the worst players I have ever seen.

Edited February 27, 2012 by biowareftw

[Telaan]

Does your solid grasp of the game (what a scrub) tell you that root on knockback does not effect resolve and works on full resolve people?

 

Does it also tell you that on non pve rp servers (which you probably are on) people run 4-6 stacked hybrid sorc deep (and republic are leveling alts to do the same)?

 

Why the hell would you put guard on the one person in the warzone who is never going to hit his target.

 

The non hybrid balance/madness spec isn't grossly op (you know the people who actually go 31 points into a tree like all the other classes). Perhaps you still have idiots who run this spec (because the hybrid spec ALSO does slightly more DMG then the pure specs).

 

The hybrid spec with root on knockback and STUN on their soft cc when it breaks early? Gamebreaking.

 

I have played against a team of 5 hybrid sorc a tank and 2 healers where I literally sat in CC the whole game. Stunned into instant cast mez that stuns on dmg into root. Resolve full (this is if I am getting healed because I am dead by then if no heals). What is my full resolve bar good for? Nothing. Because I am sitting in a root while it ticks down. Then the cc chain repeats itself.

 

The problem gets worse with every hybrid sorc added and melee that aren't tanks become more and more useless with each hybrid sorc added.

 

PvP is simply broken for melee until the hybrid spec is made unplayable. On teams where every class is represented and you don't stack ranged with knockbacks? Yes melee are fine.

 

To bad this doesn't happen in a real world scenario, because everyone already rerolled sage/sorc and merc/commando...

 

Just because sent/marauders who are MUCH BETTER PLAYERS THEN YOUR GUARDBOT SELF can top dmg? That means jack. It means the ranged in that warzone are HORRIBLE. I can top ranged slightly by 50-100k many times. Guess what...I can top them by 300 k playing sage/sorc. While herp derping it up, and never being touced for more then 2 seconds (not enough to even break my shield) by melee. That is just by myself. In a sorc stack? They will literally quit the warzone. There is no reason for them to sit in roots that bypass resolve for the entire game.

 

So yes on horrible servers where people play their class wrong, spec wrong and you play well, you can dominate on a sent/marauder. Any decent sorc/sage can kite a marauder around for 40-45 seconds and more with LOS. Now add multiple roots on knockback that work through resolve...

 

Get a clue guy. This is the worst balanced melee/range game I have ever seen. The only reason some melee (as dps spec, since tanking spec is fine for guarding healers) are even viable is due to the idiots playing the range. They are some of the worst players I have ever seen.

 

Your posts are always a gem. So many of your quotes are worthy of my sig. Thank you for this. By the way have you ever considered writing speeches for the Obama administration?

[Baron_Samedi]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=324141

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=329275

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=323707

 

This threads are excellent with proposals about solving the sorc/sage dominance.

[biowareftw]

Your posts are always a gem. So many of your quotes are worthy of my sig. Thank you for this. By the way have you ever considered writing speeches for the Obama administration?

 

And your posts are always clueless. The entire sad state of pvp in this game is summed up when you said "when I put guard on a melee dps".

 

You don't have to guard sorc/sage in a hybrid stack because they will never be touched. You can use it on the healer which makes them unkillable. It also makes healing MUCH easier for the healer.

 

Bottom line? Mediocre players can beat exceptional players by stacking one class. That is a problem.

 

Now go back to your roleplay/pve server where you aren't fighting the exact same comp every single warzone and where people don't play 2 ac's only as dps both of which are ranged, have a stun and the only reason merc/commando is so dominant is because the hybrid sorc/sage root on knockback.

 

This game is like WoW except melee either have no more then one way to reach their target (or none), like shadowstep/heroic leap in addition to charge/stealth opener. Melee have no immunity to spells, mez (fear), knockbacks or roots. Melee have no way to be repeatedly cleansed by healers (cooldown on it). Melee can be rooted for eternity with maxed resolve/diminishing returns. That is called broken.

 

Any decent frost mage from WoW finds it damn near impossible to die to melee in this game while playing a sorc/sage. We reported the hybrid spec as stupidly OP in beta, while people like you, who have no clue what they are talking about used bad play as your measure for balance.

 

I had to TRY to die on a hybrid specced sorc in beta. In a sorc/sage stack? It is impossible to die to melee. Add to that? You also hard counter mercs/commandos because you have an interrupt and they don't. You can los while still damaging them, they can't. You have channeled, they have a cast time that you can exploit. You have a instant cast mez, they don't.

 

The only thing I had to be afraid of on a sorc/sage was scoundrel/ops. That is no longer the case. The hybrid spec went from being the most op spec in the game, to completely ruining the game.

Edited February 27, 2012 by biowareftw

[runinmad]

Why so many people in online games prefer to faceroll their face off than achieve something with a little bit of skill? Almost every WZ i enter there are like 6-8 inquisitors in one team. I cant even see map cuz everything is purple, so many stupid lightnings. I never get that, why ppl roll classes that are easy and for newbs, just like ret palas in wotlk, just like frost mages now. Please BW nerf sorcerers. Sick damage, like 3 imbollizes, stun, bubble, bubble-blind, healz, sprint, constant channeled slow, knockbacks. I mean it, what the...? I just was in WZ where total number of players were 16, and there were 13 inquisitors... PvP in SWTOR isn't cool anyway, but sorcerers make it even worse. Please do something about it because this is riddicolous. See ya peeps and may the force be with You.

 

I agree with op. I was in a WZ 4 or 5 of them Sorc's can't even get to em as a Guardian. There damage exceeds 350k 400k with 100k healing at the end of a WZ. Sorcs need a healing stance and a dps stance like an op suggested. Ill leap and they will kick me right away. Another dang caster rules game. Pretty crapy when Light wearing armors are the hardest to kill.

[maradigamer]

I got bored of my sorc after level 25ish, I think? Loved pvp on her at first, fantastic bag of tricks, but then I had to try other classes. Every other class, in fact.

 

I don't really mind them most of the time, unless it's half a team with some healing. Maybe they're much more annoying in the 50 bracket, though, I wouldn't know.

Edited February 27, 2012 by maradigamer

[Adzzy]

I have played against a team of 5 hybrid sorc a tank and 2 healers where I literally sat in CC the whole game. Stunned into instant cast mez that stuns on dmg into root. Resolve full (this is if I am getting healed because I am dead by then if no heals). What is my full resolve bar good for? Nothing. Because I am sitting in a root while it ticks down. Then the cc chain repeats itself.

 

Your allies weren't very good were they (give you a hint, the root is the only cc they have that can't be dispelled...), dispelling cc was about the only way to not get thoroughly destroyed on pretty much any caster class cc team in wow, the high cds on basic cc for this, make it even easier.

 

Those high cd's (whirlwind is basically polymorph with a 45-60s cd...) also mean your imaginary scenario where you and just you are getting cc'd as resolve ping pongs would mean that the rest of your team is barely getting cc'd at all.

 

 

I don't really mind them most of the time, unless it's half a team with some healing. Maybe they're much more annoying in the 50 bracket, though, I wouldn't know.

 

They're weaker in 50 brackets because they don't scale as well as others with gear, and their entire bag of tricks except extrication (which is a huttball team play move and has no real value when fighting someone) is complete mostly by 30 and entirely by 40.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Adzzy

[Telaan]

And your posts are always clueless. The entire sad state of pvp in this game is summed up when you said "when I put guard on a melee dps".

 

You don't have to guard sorc/sage in a hybrid stack because they will never be touched. You can use it on the healer which makes them unkillable. It also makes healing MUCH easier for the healer.

 

Bottom line? Mediocre players can beat exceptional players by stacking one class. That is a problem.

 

Now go back to your roleplay/pve server where you aren't fighting the exact same comp every single warzone and where people don't play 2 ac's only as dps both of which are ranged, have a stun and the only reason merc/commando is so dominant is because the hybrid sorc/sage root on knockback.

 

This game is like WoW except melee either have no more then one way to reach their target (or none), like shadowstep/heroic leap in addition to charge/stealth opener. Melee have no immunity to spells, mez (fear), knockbacks or roots. Melee have no way to be repeatedly cleansed by healers (cooldown on it). Melee can be rooted for eternity with maxed resolve/diminishing returns. That is called broken.

 

Any decent frost mage from WoW finds it damn near impossible to die to melee in this game while playing a sorc/sage. We reported the hybrid spec as stupidly OP in beta, while people like you, who have no clue what they are talking about used bad play as your measure for balance.

 

I had to TRY to die on a hybrid specced sorc in beta. In a sorc/sage stack? It is impossible to die to melee. Add to that? You also hard counter mercs/commandos because you have an interrupt and they don't. You can los while still damaging them, they can't. You have channeled, they have a cast time that you can exploit. You have a instant cast mez, they don't.

The only thing I had to be afraid of on a sorc/sage was scoundrel/ops. That is no longer the case. The hybrid spec went from being the most op spec in the game, to completely ruining the game.

 

Do you copy paste your angry rants from thread to thread? I get it, you get owned by a knockback (that adds to and affected by resolve) with a 2 second root and a mez (that adds to and is affected by resolve) that breaks instantly on damage; and, all of which can be dispelled/cleansed by healers except the 2 second root.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Telaan

[biowareftw]

Your allies weren't very good were they (give you a hint, the root is the only cc they have that can't be dispelled...)

 

Let me give you a hint. Dispel has a cooldown. Noone runs with more then one one healer in each 4 man group.

 

Requiring multiple sorc/sage dps to dispel sorc/sage CC off of melee is just as broken. Now you are just back to who has more sorcs on your team...

 

Again your excuses are if a melee has a tank guarding them (makes it harder on the whole team, because he could be guarding a healer) and if you have multiple dispellers which all need to be sorc/sages.

 

Any other brilliant posts by you people?

 

Get a tank guarding you. Get a healer spam dispelling you (oh wait they can't). All so you can beat some mediocre players playing a class that is easier then a freakin WoW vanilla shadow priest (that had to shift in and out of shadow to heal/dps), that was easy BEFORE we had gaming mice.

 

Thanks for making all my arguments for me. Game is broken. Game is broken mostly due to one spec.

[Adzzy]

Let me give you a hint. Dispel has a cooldown. Noone runs with more then one one healer in each 4 man group.

 

4 seconds, and ity's not on cooldown before it's used, and the crowd control itself has a cooldown up towards a minute, this isn't poly, dispel, poly, dispel, poly dispel, it's quite literally, whirlwind, dispel ................................................................. whirlwind, dispel, and you can't layer it up with 5 stacks of god knows what to make the dispel hit useless stuff 4 times, and get resisted....

 

And you know the most fun part? a tank guarding someone has the same effect of ol ye blessing of sacrifice to wake on damage cc (that's 3 of 8 classes...).

Edited February 27, 2012 by Adzzy

[GrandMike]

Let me give you a hint. Dispel has a cooldown. Noone runs with more then one one healer in each 4 man group.

 

Requiring multiple sorc/sage dps to dispel sorc/sage CC off of melee is just as broken. Now you are just back to who has more sorcs on your team...

 

Again your excuses are if a melee has a tank guarding them (makes it harder on the whole team, because he could be guarding a healer) and if you have multiple dispellers which all need to be sorc/sages.

 

Any other brilliant posts by you people?

 

Get a tank guarding you. Get a healer spam dispelling you (oh wait they can't). All so you can beat some mediocre players playing a class that is easier then a freakin WoW vanilla shadow priest (that had to shift in and out of shadow to heal/dps), that was easy BEFORE we had gaming mice.

 

Thanks for making all my arguments for me. Game is broken. Game is broken mostly due to one spec.

 

Really?

 

And you are best playa evah i presume, to bad you cant beat no more or less than 5 other players by yourself! Outrageous, game is broken!

 

4 seconds, and ity's not on cooldown before it's used, and the crowd control itself has a cooldown up towards a minute, this isn't poly, dispel, poly, dispel, poly dispel, it's quite literally, whirlwind, dispel ................................................................. whirlwind, dispel.

 

WW brakes on damage, and chances that it will last for any amount of time in WZ is....negligible

 

Not to mention that 1 stun or knockback + WW = insta full resolve. But let him overexaggerate and rant, its funny to watch

Edited February 27, 2012 by GrandMike

[Telaan]

4 seconds, and ity's not on cooldown before it's used, and the crowd control itself has a cooldown up towards a minute, this isn't poly, dispel, poly, dispel, poly dispel, it's quite literally, whirlwind, dispel ................................................................. whirlwind, dispel.

 

I know, he acts like dispell's cd has a 2 min timer on it like stun break and that both the knockback as well as force armor don't have a cd and/or lockout.

 

His mo is to exaggerate and insult. It's typically funny to watch.....

[biowareftw]

4 seconds, and ity's not on cooldown before it's used, and the crowd control itself has a cooldown up towards a minute, this isn't poly, dispel, poly, dispel, poly dispel, it's quite literally, whirlwind, dispel ................................................................. whirlwind, dispel.

 

Again you are requiring a dedicated healer/healers only dispelling you to even hit your target against a sorc stack?

 

Why the hell would you bother? Sorc do = dmg from range, have a ranged interupt, have more CC, and can root a melee without even targeting them with an aoe knockback through full resolve.

 

Oh and they can be played at half the skill cap...

 

So the best you can come up with is, get a healer/healers so that ONE melee played well can be as good as one mediocre sorc/sage in a warzone???

 

So 1 melee (not more as they need spam dispelled) is viable per 4 people in a premade with communication?

 

L O L.

[Telaan]

Again you are requiring a dedicated healer/healers only dispelling you to even hit your target against a sorc stack?

 

Why the hell would you bother? Sorc do = dmg from range, have a ranged interupt, have more CC, and can root a melee without even targeting them with an aoe knockback through full resolve.

 

Oh and they can be played at half the skill cap...

 

So the best you can come up with is, get a healer/healers so that ONE melee played well can be as good as one mediocre sorc/sage in a warzone???

 

So 1 melee (not more as they need spam dispelled) is viable per 4 people in a premade with communication?

 

L O L.

 

The AoE knockback is affected by resolve......

 

You get so angry over things you don't even understand the mechanics of.

[GrandMike]

and can root a melee without even targeting them with an aoe knockback through full resolve.

 

It DOES NOT happen. ROFL

 

First you have to actually know something about the game to have at least semi-coherent rant

[Nishifumi]

I'm a sage dps and they are squishy. I don't care what you say I'm in full BM and the right class might have a hard time pinning me down but two solid dps classes will crush me faster then they can crush any other class.

 

I am predicting the best premade (if 8 man is allowable) ranked warzone teams will have no more than 1 dps sage in them. Most of the sages would be healers.

 

How does a team of two vanguard tanks, a couple of shadows that can guard and dps, a couple commando healers and a bunch of vanguard dps specced sound with everyone guarding each other except the two vanguard tanks. I don't think you could throw 3 dps on any one of them and survive to kill them.

 

In the situation where you have people working together with healers (especially trooper with some shield/armor) and dps specced tank types guarding them and some dps guarded in the mix, things will get rough.

 

If I were guarded and had taunts I'd could still die to a good 2-3 dps but a commando or vanguard or even shadow would last quite a while.

 

I think you're just frustrated because 5 dps classes focusing one person will kill them no matter what. If it were bounty hunters it'd be the same thing. If it were snipers it'd be the same thing. If it were shadows/knights it'd be the same thing (they just have to move around more).

Edited February 27, 2012 by Nishifumi

[Baron_Samedi]

Ooooh, and i like this line of thinking:

 

When i kill a sorc its because im great and sorc sucks.

 

When i get killd by sorc its because sorc is OP.

 

 

No, when I kill sorc I usually think "THANK YOU G_D for 5 seconds of normal pvp".

Cause after 5 seconds the dead guy comes around again.

 

And I need another minute or 2 to kill him, with great help of 3-4 people.

[biowareftw]

It DOES NOT happen. ROFL

 

First you have to actually know something about the game to have at least semi-coherent rant

 

Wrong. Wrong wrong. You don't get knocked back (if you have full resolve). You are still rooted by the knockback. Try it for yourself...

 

Pretty sad you insult people when you don't even know your knockback roots people on full resolve. How can anyone take you seriously when the people telling you the hybrid spec is gamebreaking (after playing it for themselves) know more about the class then you...

Edited February 27, 2012 by biowareftw

[GrandMike]

I think you're just frustrated because 5 dps classes focusing one person will kill them no matter what. If it were bounty hunters it'd be the same thing. If it were snipers it'd be the same thing. If it were shadows/knights it'd be the same thing (they just have to move around more).

 

It wouldnt e the same, you would die much much faster to those classes considering burst they have

 

And I need another minute or 2 to kill him, with great help of 3-4 people.

 

Riiiiiiight

 

How many people and how long does it take you to kill something that is not squishy lol

 

Lesson of the day: use something else other than default free attack

 

Wrong. Wrong wrong. You don't get knocked back (if you have full resolve). You are still rooted by the knockback. Try it for yourself...

 

What part of "it DOES NOT happen" did you not understand rofl

Edited February 27, 2012 by GrandMike

[Steele_dk]

Ill leap and they will kick me right away. Another dang caster rules game. Pretty crapy when Light wearing armors are the hardest to kill.

 

Heres another tip from a sorc, save leap to when we knockback!

 

And we are not the hardest armor to kill would you PLS stop the whine already.

[Adzzy]

Again you are requiring a dedicated healer/healers only dispelling you to even hit your target against a sorc stack?

 

Why the hell would you bother? Sorc do = dmg from range, have a ranged interupt, have more CC, and can root a melee without even targeting them with an aoe knockback through full resolve.

 

Oh and they can be played at half the skill cap...

 

So the best you can come up with is, get a healer/healers so that ONE melee played well can be as good as one mediocre sorc/sage in a warzone???

 

So 1 melee (not more as they need spam dispelled) is viable per 4 people in a premade with communication?

 

L O L.

 

you're talking about a scenario where 5 sorcerers are constantly crowd controlling you, in perfect sync.

 

Do you need help for this? no kidding. Do you think you can take on 5 mercs, or 5 snipers?

 

or 5 of any class at once?

 

2 carnage specced marauders if they coordinate properly can have someone crowd controlled with immobilises and grip for nearly 30 seconds, does this mean that they should be nerfed because such incredible coordination is possible?

Edited February 27, 2012 by Adzzy

[Arkl]

It DOES NOT happen. ROFL

 

First you have to actually know something about the game to have at least semi-coherent rant

 

Roots and Slows are not affected by resolve, don't know if on purpose or not.

 

Now you know something about the game too.