Sorcerers, seriously what the hell?

[Dudious]

I'm tired of reading "but 1v1, they're squishy". I think this forum is about warzone balance and the sheer amount of utility they have. Sorcerers (range DPS) don't need a sprint that 150%. It needs to be about 70-80% MAX, this goes for Assassins/Shadows, too. If you can run past not 1 but 2 hazards with a single cooldown while other classes can't, that's just dumb.

 

I play a Merc, and it's a lot of fun on Alderaan and Voidstar. I can put out some punishment, take some. I feel on either of those two maps, that a Sorc isn't 1000x better than me. I can contribute to the objective of the map. Huttball, however, is Forceball. I can't leap, I can't interrupt (save for Stun or Knockback). I watch Sorcs/Assassins grab the ball, sprint away, and be damn near out of range by the time I can even target them (thx awesome tab/click targetting). Most of the newbs in here will be like "well, you got things to counter force speed", to which I respond, no we don't.

 

Electro-dart is 1 min CD, Force speed is half of that. Knockbacks aren't based on a mutual understanding of where the server assumes the toon is, but rather where the recipient of the CC is. Let me explain, if I knock someone back, it doesn't knock them back based upon what I see on my screen, it's where the other person's client sees them at. So it is impossible to effectively use ANY knockback, because half the time I end up helping them or not knocking them in the intended direction. I've literally watched people on my left get knocked back as if they were standing to my right. It's just a terrible model that is supposed to keep server requests down, but doesn't really work here. Not even gonna talk about the "insta-cast, 2 min CC", it always gets broken by some idiot or they use their break ability. Half the time I use Stun or ranged CC the client still moved them the full length of their sprint due to client lag. I play on a PST server, and live in California. My average ping is < 100ms, usually less than 50ms.

 

And this is a new one I haven't really heard anyone talk about yet, but bubbles should work like this:

 

- Apply bubble, bubble has 30-45 sec duration

- After bubble breaks due to dmg, apply 15-30 sec debuff before new bubble can be applied.

- ]Bubbles SHOULD NOT PREVENT KNOCKBACKS (The Sorc bubble currently does and it's infuriating!) You can even take the damage off of my knockback if that'll fix it, it's not a huge loss.

- Bubbles should only reduce incoming damage, not completely ignore it (it could still absorb the same amount, but tired of that < 1k HP guy getting a bubble and then getting full heals, no other healer can pull off that kind of save)

- Bubbles should be a healer only thing. Buff the DPS healers to Merc levels if that's how you wanna roll, but any DPS class able to put a full absorb on an ally is ridiculous.

 

Force speed should work like this:

- Grants + 70% based upon current speed (so if you're snared, that effect is subtracted to create the cumulative speed). It should NOT just put you at 150% regardless. If you're in combat, subtract that amount. If you're snared, subtract that mount. I'm tired of these ******es just running away like it's nothing. NO SKILL

- Roots should completly negate Force Speed. Sorry, but that's a really solid counter.

- Extend the cooldown from 30 seconds for the LOVE OF GOD. Should be 2 minutes minimum, I'll settle for 90 seconds.

 

I guess my biggest beef is that sorcerer speed is too fast, providing them with too much utility for Huttball. It's basically a big middle finger to every other class. Warriors have it pretty good, too, but not as good as a Sorc/Assassin. Dmg/healing wise, they might have a little too much healing output, but dmg I think if anything they're lower. I'm a pyrotech and unless I'm on defense the whole time, a Sorcerer will ever out-do me.

 

The last point I'm going to talk about is the sorcerer pull ability. I think this is a very cool ability and makes a lot of sense. It requires player coordination and execution, and has a counter. Things that require 2 or more people to work together (passing, force pull, guarding, etc.) make for a more dynamic PvP experience that actually requires teamwork. The sheer utility of a Sorc makes them too formidable of a one-man show.

 

Skimmed your post... and you have a lot of bad information. The accented section is the worst. It invalidates everything you're saying. Know what you're talking about before you write an essay.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Dudious

[GrandMike]

Skimmed your post... and you have a lot of bad information. The accented section is the worst. It invalidates everything you're saying. Know what you're talking about before you write an essay.

 

Correcting all nonsense people write would take waaaaaaaay tooo much time, some tried (myself included) but terribads just ignore it come back to continue to write nonsense

Edited March 5, 2012 by GrandMike

[Halefthaut]

I've said it before, If you think Sorc/Sage is the most unbalanced thing you've played against, you clearly didn't play DAOC/Warhammer/Rift at any point.

 

Bright Wizard makes Sorc/Sages look like a joke..

 

Oh look, You're a flag carrier, let me throw playing with fire on you, and kill everyone of your healers at once..

 

Oh look, its a Pyromancer in Rift, let me just one shot you and your healer then fireball down the rest of your team.

 

DAOC? Hey.. I see you're hiding behind a wall, let me get on my banshee and Cone AOE through the wall and kill you and your entire defense.

 

.

 

This list lacks Frost Mages from WoW

[Prof-Chaos]

If you think sorcs/sages should be nerfed, then powertechs/vanguards should be nerfed even harder. They have 2 stuns, pull, shield, heavy armor, and some of the best burst in the game. Not to mention they ignore armor. Powertechs are way more powerful than sorcs/sages with more survivability; oh and they also get more resources than their counterpart, with abilities that aren't broken like the vanguard. And yes I have a lvl 50 powertech and a 50 sage.

I have a 50 Sorc and a 50 Vanguard and I feel more like I'm exploiting when I play hybrid spec Sorc than when I could pull ball-carriers to spawn and get healer medals from shockfrozen water as Vanguard. Like someone else said in the thread, my grandmother could do top damage as hybrid spec Sorc; probably by just rolling her face against the keyboard.

[Waagabond]

I have to repeat myself.

The amount of sorcs and sages, mainly sorcs, that always, always enters these posts, do defend their class, is hilarioius.

 

Are you not ashamed?

 

I mean, seriously, none take you 100% seriously.

There are a few very good sorcs and sages out there that definately earn some respect.

But the simple fact is: The class have too much utility.

 

I dont mind its damage, I dont mind the healing, but being able to do this, at the same time, while also having the best cc, best escape mechanisms available of all classes, is just wrong. Why cant you agree on this?

 

Ok if you had healing and cc, or damage and cc. Fine. But Damage, Healing, CC, Utility, Run speed, Bubbles, you name it.

The class is a faceroll class and thats it.

 

I have never lost to a sorc or sage in 1vs1, not even been close. Or once, vs a sage, but other then that, majority of players behind this class are terrible players. Simple fact.

 

The class needs to be fixed and thats that.

 

Remove bubbles from baseline, remove run speed and remove the 2 sec stun on lightning cage. Make bubble part of high tier talent in healing tree.

Wolaa, the class is fixed and more balanced towards the rest.

 

You dont agree? Of course not, you rolled a FOTM class and wants to remain strong.

 

You come in here on the forum saying your squshy cause you walked in with your 12k hp and 97 expertise and got jumped by a battlemaster operative or scoundrel and you cry cause you died, that you wasnt able to roflstomp him like you have done all the way to 50.

 

If your below 50 btw, you should not even be in this thread to start with.

sorcs below 50 are OP, at 50, they are still OP for the team.

 

These classes are alone, single handedly, sinking pvp in swtor.

You dont start to shape up and be honest about your class, pvp in SWTOR is slowly drowning. Get serious.

 

The class dont need a serious nerf, but it needs a nerf. And thats pronto.

[Waagabond]

I have a 50 Sorc and a 50 Vanguard and I feel more like I'm exploiting when I play hybrid spec Sorc than when I could pull ball-carriers to spawn and get healer medals from shockfrozen water as Vanguard. Like someone else said in the thread, my grandmother could do top damage as hybrid spec Sorc; probably by just rolling her face against the keyboard.

 

This is why only 2-3 sages and sorcs in total atleast from me, have showned they know their class and are great players.

 

This class is a faceroll class and majority of the players, including 99.99% of the sorcs and sages on this forum, are inexperienced pvpers.

And if you come in and name your gladiator title in x sesions in wow, then you are just either trolling or trying to jump on the train to remain overpowered with your epeen 14 year attitude.

 

This class is sinking pvp in SWTOR from a promising battleground to a lightning cage thats just honestly, utterly boring.

 

Or, they can make a class limit to warzones. Maximum 2 sorcs or sages per team.

 

Since so few sages compared to sorcs however, I think we would end up with a ton of hutball republic games where imperials never would be able to pvp ever again if this took place.

 

Still today, after months in this game, I have never seen less then 3 sorcs in a warzone, from 10 to 50 BM with several classes.

Average is 4 sorcs.

 

For republic, average is 2 sages. I have been in hutball games vs republic where NO team even had sages. I doubt this ever happened for imperials.

 

I can only assume its cause most rolled the class after 5 second research on google under "most powerful class in SWTOR"..and you found the 10001 posts about how sorcs should be nerfed, which is a rather good indication on what class is more powerful then the others.

 

Again, as I always say, damage, keep it, healing, keep it. But not in conjunction with the utility you have. They nerfed scoundrels and operatives due to the sorc and sage crying for help when they could not roflstomp even a stealther.

 

Ahh well, we are all talking to the wall. Again, 99.999% of sorcs are terrible players and as such, they will never be able to fully utilize this class, which is a good thing. The problem I have, is vs the ones that are great players and use the sorc and sage to their potentials, thats when this class blows every hair off your body and leaves you in a static mindset where the only mantra that is repeated constantly is: GW2...GW2...GW2...GW2...GW2...

[GrandMike]

Like someone else said in the thread, my grandmother could do top damage as hybrid spec Sorc; probably by just rolling her face against the keyboard.

 

Prolly if playing against the amount of terribads in everyday WZs

 

Sorc is great in nooking terribads. Unfortuntely not much good against anyone who barely knows what he is doing on *pick any of the classes*

 

If your below 50 btw, you should not even be in this thread to start with.

 

Agreed, 99% of QQers should stop QQing and listen to high level players of all classes that say to them that if they lose against sor you should L2P.

 

You have a point there.

Edited March 5, 2012 by GrandMike

[Tempsticks]

If you play sorcerer you are probably sitting back cackling at his observation but if you play a role that takes some research of the abilities and skill to be effective then you are annoyed to say the least by the superman character they put in the game for those lacking aesthetics and noobs. I mean come on really. whats the point in learning how to use you're character or even queing for PVP if you have to go up against someone, possibly several lvl's lower then you, that can wipe their *** with you in 1 move? really? thats skill? thats fun? No. That is the definition of suck. and why in a few months when its time for people to renew their subscription they won't. WZ already sucks. Sorcerers make it suck more. I vote for nerfing it or change it so that the user has to adapt some sorta skill to use it. I made one just to see for myself. And my conclusion is too easy. waaay too easy to play. Lets send the Harry Potters of TOR back to Dumbledore

 

" Either do or do not....There is no try"

 

There isn't a single difficult to play class in this game.

[me_unknown]

T

This class is a faceroll class

 

i'm still wondering how one could denote a class with "too much utilities" a faceroll class.

 

anyhow, it is funny how a somewhat underpowered class gets nerf calls because of noobs getting owned by sages/sorcs in level <50 pvp, where sorcs are strong.

 

yes, i repeat it for you: in endgame pvp sages/sorcs are underpowered: one of the weakest two classes in the game in 1on1 but a good one in large group pvp (good, not overpowered).

[da_krall]

I've had games where Sorc/Sage had 400-600k damage, or 400-600k healing, so... yeah.

 

Ive seen those numbers from every other healing or damage class, even some tanks....lets nerf them all.

 

Most the people here are posting their experiences from the 1-49 bracket where sorc, who get most their OP abilities earlier than other classes get their OP abilities, are very good in that bracket. In the 50 bracket they probably need some form of buff as they are nothing but free kills.

 

The whole opposition team is all sorc/sage = easy win unless its huttball and they are organised. But having said that id still rather have an assassin or a jugg on the team than a sorc as they are much better in huttball.

Edited March 5, 2012 by da_krall

[me_unknown]

Or, they can make a class limit to warzones. Maximum 2 sorcs or sages per team.

no one in rated bgs will be so stupid to bring more than 2 sorcs, except they have fun playing with a weakened team.

Again, as I always say, damage, keep it, healing, keep it. But not in conjunction with the utility you have.

they are at least 2 classes or 3 that have as much or as good utilities.

They nerfed scoundrels and operatives due to the sorc and sage crying for help when they could not roflstomp even a stealther.

still post nerf scoundrel/operative >>>>>> sage/sorc.

Edited March 5, 2012 by me_unknown

[da_krall]

I have to repeat myself.

The amount of sorcs and sages, mainly sorcs, that always, always enters these posts, do defend their class, is hilarioius.

 

Are you not ashamed?

 

I mean, seriously, none take you 100% seriously.

There are a few very good sorcs and sages out there that definately earn some respect.

But the simple fact is: The class have too much utility.

 

The reason its defended is because they have played it at 50, as well as possibly other classes, and know it is in no way OP in the top bracket. Unlike you that dont know **** about ****.

 

Hit them once, bubble gone, hit them three more time, HP gone.

Edited March 5, 2012 by da_krall

[Sangomah]

there are only 2 things that need to be changed.

 

Force speed should be an assassin/shadow only skill, and if you interrupt 1 heal all heals are on cooldown.

 

If you hit lightning all lightning spells on cooldown etc. (crushing darkness is not a lightning spell and could still be cast. Same with affliction.

 

Then again as an assassin tank I can guard a node in War Council for nearly a minute against as much as 3 ppl by being decent at kiting los and pulling, or using ranged and(or good use of cooldowns.

[da_krall]

This funniest thing is all the people saying they cant beat a sorc because the sorc keeps LOS them......if they can do it to you....

[GrandMike]

Force speed should be an assassin/shadow only skill, and if you interrupt 1 heal all heals are on cooldown.

 

And sorc/sages should get steatlh and vanish.

 

If you hit lightning all lightning spells on cooldown etc. (crushing darkness is not a lightning spell and could still be cast. Same with affliction.

 

This wont work since sorc/sage have different types of attack for different attacks (project, FIB...)

 

There are no "schools" in SWTOR

 

Then again as an assassin tank I can guard a node in War Council for nearly a minute against as much as 3 ppl by being decent at kiting los and pulling, or using ranged and(or good use of cooldowns.

 

Immunity has to go, that kind of skills have no place in PvP (goes for marauder/sentinel also), it must be replaced by procs (same to immunity to knockbaks/slows....)

 

This funniest thing is all the people saying they cant beat a sorc because the sorc keeps LOS them......if they can do it to you....

 

Yah, notice that long time ago. Los works both ways. Unles they start claiming sorc shooting through walls, but with amount and quality of QQ i wouldnt be surprised

Edited March 5, 2012 by GrandMike

[Prof-Chaos]

no one in rated bgs will be so stupid to bring more than 2 sorcs, except they have fun playing with a weakened team.

 

they are at least 2 classes or 3 that have as much or as good utilities.

 

still post nerf scoundrel/operative >>>>>> sage/sorc.

"Please don't nerf my class"-post of the day.

 

At least two or three classes have the same utility was my favorite part.

[warultima]

Ha, Everyone complains about sorc. If you went against a team of 5 bh's trust me you would be crying here even more.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/WarUltima/SWTOR/everyoneonlyplayssorc.jpg

[Tempsticks]

Sorcerer/Sage is OP, everyone knows it. The only people that say otherwise play a Sorcerer/Sage, which also happens to be 50% of the population now.

 

Sorcs are fine. I have a 50 Sorc but it's gathering dust, having much more success as a Marauder.

[sfdeg]

yes, i repeat it for you: in endgame pvp sages/sorcs are underpowered: one of the weakest two classes in the game in 1on1 but a good one in large group pvp (good, not overpowered).

 

finally a post i can whole heartedly agree with, from 40-49 id say it was op but the moment i hit 50 i cant 1 vs 1 someone and survive long enough to half kill them, thats with full champ gear and been pvping from lvl 35

Edited March 15, 2012 by sfdeg