Sorcerers, seriously what the hell?

[moisiss]

and i've seen marauders hit 700k, yet everyone cries about them being underpowered

 

I have heard that marauders hit HARD but are super complicated to play.... I don't know because I don't have a marauder, but I would say a lot of people who are complaining need to l2p... or get pocket heals!

[Daeborn]

If you know how to play your class a sorc is down in 15sec.

 

In PvP that's actually a long time. Better be sooner then that.

[Entropicus]

the other day i saw a sage do over 500k damage in a republic v republic huttball. I've never seen another class do that.

 

I also regularly see sages do over 450k healing.

 

Then there are the hybrids that do 300k damage and 150k healing.

 

I'm a decently geared sawbones and I'm very happy when I break 300k heals.

 

I noticed that as well no matter how hard I tried to heal or stayed alive I can't beat them when they are focused on healing. Yeah I may be in the top 3 but the first spot is destroying me by 75-100k+. Granted this is pre 50 but I can only imagine it be exponentially worse when the gear gap is bigger.

[Daeborn]

There is an assassin who posted a screenshot in the assassin forum who was pulling over 700k a WZ.... He probably had pocket heals but still... thats a LOT of damage!

 

He's probably got a dedicated healer and DPS spec'ed.

[Navaris]

At least it's funny to see 6 merc taking a squat and shooting missiles out of their rear at you. Sorcs's... Not so much.

[Tirium]

Sorcerer/Sage is OP, everyone knows it. The only people that say otherwise play a Sorcerer/Sage, which also happens to be 50% of the population now.

 

No, there are those of us that aren't terrible at the game and have figured out that Marauders/Sentinels and Ptechs/Vanguards are MUCH bigger threats than Sorcs.

 

The 500k damage example made me chuckle. I know a Ptech on ven Zallow that breaks 750k damage on the regs.

 

Hello 90% armor penetration, how are you?

 

Yes, sorcs/consulars get a nice CC kit because they die almost instantly. They pay a HUGE price in mobility, and they have so few abilities that throwing a spell interrupt butchers their DPS completely.

 

Saying sorcs/consulars are OP is just admitting you don't know your class and the overall game meta, which is fine -- but do research before QQing about a class.

 

If you really have an issue with it, go roll a Vanguard or Ptech and go 2 shot them with Rail shot, that'll put them in their place.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, my first 50 was a merc, followed by an Operative and am now working on my Tank Assassin -- I'm no Sorcerer in disguise.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Tirium

[me_unknown]

I noticed that as well no matter how hard I tried to heal or stayed alive I can't beat them when they are focused on healing. Yeah I may be in the top 3 but the first spot is destroying me by 75-100k+. Granted this is pre 50 but I can only imagine it be exponentially worse when the gear gap is bigger.

 

your imagination is wrong. it is the opposite after 50 with better gear. meeles scale far better with gear.

 

that's the problem of nearly or whine threads here: they are written with the experience of level <50 or fresh 50s vs well geared 50s.

 

this actually is a miracle for me: why people are starting to judge and complain before they actually have the experience to have reason?

such people are the one that are destroying the fun of others, the game and the balance.

Edited February 20, 2012 by me_unknown

[Elmuerto]

My scoundrel now has hit 40 and had his abilities rounded out and shot from lower board to top end depending on what's happening in a warzone. Had a wz recently and I was the only rep in the top 7, nestled tight in amongst 6 sorcs. That says something for sure.

 

Sorcs are early achievers, yes but there's loads of sensible comments here - its a team based game, people should do not get annoyed if you're pugging WZ, bringing a team and even with Vent is a different beast entirely, if you're playing WZ solo, do it for the fun. If i had a dime for every jumpin' jedi ruined a beautiful aoe flashbang that meant 10 seconds of bomb planting goodness...no point getting rattled if you do, team up.

[Cempa]

I don't really have any problem in killing sorcs. But it's kinda annoying that they have a lot of utility a good shield a lot of bind and stun. Can damage and heal. Can top the heal and damage board at the same time. Can bind without affecting the resolve. Force Speed. Oh God need i say more?

 

But at what cost? That cost being the lowest burst of any AC. Every one can use CD's and consumables to up burst for x sec - xx sec.

 

All the damage Sage/Sorcerer put out is easily healed by a single healer. If you are kited to death its your own fault for not just turning around and leaving!

 

Players I solo as a Sorcerer fall under two categories:

 

a) I use my CD+Adrenal+Red Ball+Red Stim and they actually let me unload on them as they just seem to be doing whatever with me doing 1.x DPS casting freely!

 

b) A player who has made the decision to stay and fight even though its been well over 40sec -x2 unload- and I am still kiting and slowly killing them.

 

What we do get in return is utility, I am able to help players by pulling+shielding+healing+dispelling+Improved Jolt+CC+AE knock back and root.

 

We will never EVERY see consistent 4k hits or even 3k hits -notice consistent- and if we want more DPS/Burst we need to lose utility and survivability.

 

A smart Sage/Sorcerer will always play at range and almost always have an exit/LoS near. What that means is YOU can just as easily avoid her!!!!

 

Rated WZ will be the true testing ground as organized groups just shred Sage/Sorcerer to bits.

[bamsmacked]

you should roll it and play it at level 50 to see how wrong you are.

 

Zzzz.

 

zZZZZzzzZzzzZZzzzZzzzzzZz

 

 

zzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZz

 

I have a level 50, read what I post and you'd see that. 54 Valor and in full Champion Vindicator gear Guardian.

 

It's like talking to a brick wall when trying to talk to kids on forums.

Edited February 20, 2012 by bamsmacked

[Pestwulf]

http://imageshack.us/f/215/700p.png/

 

edit: This is the pic of the Assassin pulling 700k

 

700K+ on 30 some number of kills means there is an assload of healing going on. I'm about tired of PvP in this game because of all the CC.

 

I played a game called Dark Age of Camelot which at first was really great with PvP. And then all the players worked the kinks out with CC and it was basically groups running around Stunning people and using mass AoE to kill them before stun could wear off.

 

PvP in SWTOR is pretty much exactly like that now. Huttball is a nightmare, Pull, Push, root, snare, stun...and somehow during all of this I never seem to benefit from my resolve bar. I use my one clickie to break out once and then everything pretty much goes pear shaped.

 

The sorcerer/sage issue is something I agree on as well. I rolled up a bounty hunter and a sage to play in pvp to see what it was like to be one of them. The Sage is not so good starting at level 10, they just don't have all the talents that make them uber. However, what does make them ridiculously over powered is the fact that Snares and roots ignore resolve.

 

Making their knockback have a 5 second root and making their force armor explode for another incapacitate...it makes a squishy class into a not so squishy. And what is more, it makes them into a class that is NOT fun to encounter in PvP. It's like the Midgaard healer from DAOC all over again.

 

The bounty hunter....I do have to say WOW at the damage. I chose a Powertech and until I get him high enough to check out the nice roots on grapple and the power jump type ability, I've gone Pyro even though I've read that advanced prototype is the tree to be in. Well, at level 10 using Flame Burst and auto fire I pretty much have been top of the damage chart since then.

 

Flame burst with three talent points tirggers the combust cylinder 100% of the time. With the buff that newbie pvp players get that means for 15 heat out of 100 I hit for between 800 and 1000 combined Elemental damage every time I press it. It raises my heat fast, but combat in warzones is largely 1v1, 1v2 or everyone is killing you.

 

The dot on the cylinder ticks immediately when it's applied for between 300 and 400 damage, so every time I hit with my flame burst for around 600 damage, I get a free boost from my cylinder. I do use other buttons to do some burst damage to help punch out a healer, but the fact that flame burst is instant and I can do it while strafing for about 1k or more damage a hit..It's butch. The fact that it's not kinetic or energy damage is also butch.

 

But even though sorc and bh damage is seems a bit wacked to me, the real issues is PvP being a CC fest. That has always been more frustrating than fun, and I for one am at my limit on it. It's just getting worse and worse the longer I play.

[punkniner]

Sorcerer/Sage is OP, everyone knows it. The only people that say otherwise play a Sorcerer/Sage, which also happens to be 50% of the population now.

 

 

I don't play either one, and I have no trouble with them whatsoever. They are annoying yes, lagging me out with all that particle effect animation crap that does not need to be in the game. The only time I have issues with them though, is if two or more are on me, and you will not find any class that will be easy to take down two on one.

 

Learn to interrupt, CC, use LOS, etc. If a tank spec Vanguard can burn one down in 5-6 hits, no one should have any trouble with them.

[Mournblood]

Sorcerer/Sage is OP, everyone knows it. The only people that say otherwise play a Sorcerer/Sage, which also happens to be 50% of the population now.

 

^ Pretty much this.

 

Most premades I see these days are 4+ Sorcs, or all Commandos + Sages. The over-representation in WZs should be a clue.

[savionen]

No, there are those of us that aren't terrible at the game and have figured out that Marauders/Sentinels and Ptechs/Vanguards are MUCH bigger threats than Sorcs.

 

The 500k damage example made me chuckle. I know a Ptech on ven Zallow that breaks 750k damage on the regs.

 

Hello 90% armor penetration, how are you?

 

Yes, sorcs/consulars get a nice CC kit because they die almost instantly. They pay a HUGE price in mobility, and they have so few abilities that throwing a spell interrupt butchers their DPS completely.

 

Saying sorcs/consulars are OP is just admitting you don't know your class and the overall game meta, which is fine -- but do research before QQing about a class.

 

If you really have an issue with it, go roll a Vanguard or Ptech and go 2 shot them with Rail shot, that'll put them in their place.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, my first 50 was a merc, followed by an Operative and am now working on my Tank Assassin -- I'm no Sorcerer in disguise.

 

I actually have a Vanguard. I don't two-shot Sorcerers. Sorry. And I had no problem with Vanguards/Powertechs on my Shadow, either, infact, they're easy. Oh boy, they can randomly do 4k crits, on my Tank Shadow I can just go immune to their damage for 5 seconds.

 

Vanguards can do a ton of random uncontrolled burst if they're lucky, that's pretty much it. Rail Shot will crit for 4k if you're BM geared. That's not exactly insane considering it has a 15sec cooldown, and has to be proc'd by another skill to otherwise drop the cooldown. Maybe you need to learn how to fight Powertechs and Vanguards?

 

You can't Railshot Spam if it doesn't proc, and even then it's like High-Impact Bolt, Stockstrike, High-Impact Bolt, Ion Pulse, High-Impact Bolt, assuming that 45% proc and 30% proc succeed back to back. That's a lot of RNG, and you can never do High-Impact Bolt 2x in a row, because even the FREE one will have a cooldown. The proc finishes the cooldown, it doesn't make the next one not have a cooldown.

 

That means the Powertech/Vanguard has to be at melee range to really do any significant burst. And if it doesn't proc, no High-Impact Bolt for 15 seconds.

[Darth_Philar]

^ Pretty much this.

 

Most premades I see these days are 4+ Sorcs, or all Commandos + Sages. The over-representation in WZs should be a clue.

 

Class population saturation occurs in one of these instances:

 

1. The class is OP.

 

2. The class is perceived to be OP.

 

3. The class is fun/cool.

 

 

If the class is actually OP, it will be nerfed. Since Sorcerer/Sage QQ has been going on since launch and the only changes so far to the class have been a small buff, the rational person will see that #1 is false..

 

If there are a lot of people who simply refuse to L2P, and believe the best way to get better at PvP is to get every other class nerfed, the forums will be filled with QQ about how OP a class is. This will cause the FOTM crowd to immediately start rolling the "OP" class because they want to be facerollers. Once the faceroller hits max level and learns the reality, they will either reroll or they will keep playing the class they have become familiar with. Based on the huge volume of nerf requests, paired with the mostly hyperbolic "my warzone was all sorcerers!" threads, it is pretty easy to see that the forum gives the impression that sorcerers are OP, however, as referenced above Bioware has not nerfed the class because they have actual metrics by which they determine OP, UP, and Balanced specs.

 

If the class has a cool story, is fun to play, or just looks like a BAM-FWIC it will attract a lot of players. The Sorcerer has all three.

 

In summary, your argument that population proves power level is logically flawed and will be ignored by rational readers.

[FourTwent]

I suspect it is because this is a game to a lot of people, a form of entertainment. Not everyone wants to 'work' every time they sit down to play a game.

[me_unknown]

In summary, your argument that population proves power level is logically flawed and will be ignored by rational readers.

 

the truth in this sentence has only one flaw: most readers aren't logical

[RocNessMonster]

It cant be any worse then Jedi Knight on Republic side. I had a team last night with 8 JKs 1 Trooper and 1 Consular, this is common. Of course, I'm the only one using Guard (Vanguard). Edited February 20, 2012 by RocNessMonster

[Shatterstorm]

Whosy what? I teabag sorcs on my commando. I love them they are so nice and squishy. Nothing funner to watch then a flaming sorc trying to run away when he learns assult commando means firery death.

[DervimNorth]

Class population saturation occurs in one of these instances:

 

1. The class is OP.

 

2. The class is perceived to be OP.

 

3. The class is fun/cool.

 

 

If the class is actually OP, it will be nerfed. Since Sorcerer/Sage QQ has been going on since launch and the only changes so far to the class have been a small buff, the rational person will see that #1 is false..

 

If there are a lot of people who simply refuse to L2P, and believe the best way to get better at PvP is to get every other class nerfed, the forums will be filled with QQ about how OP a class is. This will cause the FOTM crowd to immediately start rolling the "OP" class because they want to be facerollers. Once the faceroller hits max level and learns the reality, they will either reroll or they will keep playing the class they have become familiar with. Based on the huge volume of nerf requests, paired with the mostly hyperbolic "my warzone was all sorcerers!" threads, it is pretty easy to see that the forum gives the impression that sorcerers are OP, however, as referenced above Bioware has not nerfed the class because they have actual metrics by which they determine OP, UP, and Balanced specs.

 

If the class has a cool story, is fun to play, or just looks like a BAM-FWIC it will attract a lot of players. The Sorcerer has all three.

 

In summary, your argument that population proves power level is logically flawed and will be ignored by rational readers.

 

 

Wait! Are you actually implying that pvp devs know what they're doing?! Roflmao! Talk about rationality.

 

Because no rational person would trust Good'ol Gabe with tieing up his shoelaces, let alone balancing things out. Coz hey, everybody knows that 20vs100 ilum is a balanced play, and that all healers can do all the content, and that operative healers have a burst heal...

Edited February 20, 2012 by DervimNorth

[Orangerascal]

Wait! Are you actually implying that pvp devs know what they're doing?! Roflmao! Talk about rationality.

 

Because no rational person would trust Good'ol Gabe with tieing up his shoelaces.

 

Bioware pays Good'ol Gabe more than most forum whiners. You can always send your resume to bioware if you think you can do better.

[Darth_Philar]

Wait! Are you actually implying that pvp devs know what they're doing?! Roflmao! Talk about rationality.

 

Because no rational person would trust Good'ol Gabe with tieing up his shoelaces.

 

I'm not implying anything. I am stating the fact that the developers have the tools to analyze metrics.

 

What they do with the results can be debated, but in the end, it is their game and no class is OP or UP if they say it isn't because they are the ones making the rules and giving the grades.

[DervimNorth]

I'm not implying anything. I am stating the fact that the developers have the tools to analyze metrics.

 

What they do with the results can be debated, but in the end, it is their game and no class is OP or UP if they say it isn't because they are the ones making the rules and giving the grades.

 

Indeed they are, which is part of the problem, considering the fact that Ilum is totally balanced and is working exactly as intended, according to Gabe... Which doesn't changes the fact it still sux.

[DervimNorth]

Bioware pays Good'ol Gabe more than most forum whiners. You can always send your resume to bioware if you think you can do better.

 

Perish the thought! I'm not the one who worked on WAR.

[XxPetexX]

There's a reason every WZ in FULL of sorcerers and assasins. It's because they are very OP and are quite easy to play.

 

But in my personal opinion the worst class is Imp operative. Not too many play them but that class is the cheapest class ever. Whenever I can be stun-locked while having 60-70% of my HP eaten away I call BS. Sure they may be easy enough if you the the jump on them. but the majority of the time they will fight on their terms and if they do get the jump on you 1vs1 with all CD's ready you are a dead man.