Dulwaithe Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I only rad about half the thread, but wanted to correct a major misconception about armor. Armor helps against sorc's. It reduces weapon, kinetic, and energy damage. Most of the attacks a sorc/sage uses are kinetic or energy attacks. Sure, it might not help you as much as it would against a sharpshooter or something, but it's far from useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAVAjedi Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I only rad about half the thread, but wanted to correct a major misconception about armor. Armor helps against sorc's. It reduces weapon, kinetic, and energy damage. Most of the attacks a sorc/sage uses are kinetic or energy attacks. Sure, it might not help you as much as it would against a sharpshooter or something, but it's far from useless. This! And guess what? Sorcs don't have heavy armor, and they don't have extremes about of endurance! In a lv 50 wz, a sorc may have 15k health at the ABSOLUTE MOST with full champ gear - your average sorc may have around 12k (if that!). Guess what? No health + no armor = squishy! So what are you guys complaining about? That they use static barrier so you can't 3-shot them by spamming tracer missiles or grav rounds? Really? Edited February 21, 2012 by JAVAjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) This! And guess what? Sorcs don't have heavy armor, and they don't have extremes about of endurance! In a lv 50 wz, a sorc may have 15k health at the ABSOLUTE MOST with full champ gear - your average sorc may have around 12k (if that!). Guess what? No health + no armor = squishy! So what are you guys complaining about? That they use static barrier so you can't 3-shot them by spamming tracer missiles or grav rounds? Really? The only dps class that has more health then others is... Classes with an endurance talent, which people usually skip anyways for dmg. The stam is the same on all dps gear. Armor means jack because most pvp specs have dmg that negates armor...I kill sent/marauders just as fast when they don't have rebuke up. A dps guardian/juggernaut is the "squishiest class in this game". Outside of their 3 min cooldown they can die in seconds. They wear heavy armor. I kill them on my marauder/sent in seconds... A hybrid spec sage/sorc is the most non squishy class in this game. The only people who would make this claim never played another class. The "less health" comment is just silly. This isn't vanilla WoW where you have "spirit" on your gear instead of stamina. As far as talking about merc/commandos? Why would you belittle the easiest playstyle in the game when you play the second easiest class in the game... Everyone who plays another class and has tried merc/commando/sage/sorc thinks both your AC's are a joke and that they were put in the game so that bad players could compete in pvp. BTW merc/commando isn't OP. Hybrid specced sorc/sage is. At least have some clue what you are talking about before you call the hardest to kill (not that it can't be done) or hardest dps class to focus down "squishy". They could take away the sprint and the class would still not be "squishy". They would just be focus fired easier... Edited February 21, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This! And guess what? Sorcs don't have heavy armor, and they don't have extremes about of endurance! In a lv 50 wz, a sorc may have 15k health at the ABSOLUTE MOST with full champ gear - your average sorc may have around 12k (if that!). Guess what? No health + no armor = squishy! So what are you guys complaining about? That they use static barrier so you can't 3-shot them by spamming tracer missiles or grav rounds? Really? no they are complaining about a calss that if it stands still dies in seconds but must use "faceroll" to kite and cc others to survive long enough to kill them with the LOWEST damage of all classes. they say taht's why it is the easiest class. actually i think the "easiest" is because in a pug WZ it is easy to earn medals because like any range class you can stand aside spamming, while the usual pug morons never decide to drag you into the zerg nor come to you. yes, sage is easiest to be ignored by fools. => faceroll class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) This! And guess what? Sorcs don't have heavy armor, and they don't have extremes about of endurance! In a lv 50 wz, a sorc may have 15k health at the ABSOLUTE MOST with full champ gear - your average sorc may have around 12k (if that!). Guess what? No health + no armor = squishy! So what are you guys complaining about? That they use static barrier so you can't 3-shot them by spamming tracer missiles or grav rounds? Really? Sage/Sorc can still have 17k~ hp just like everyone else. The only ones that have more than 17k-ish are people in full-tank gear. Light Armor - 17-20% Medium Armor - 22-25% Heavy Armor - 27-29% It's not a huge difference, really. Static Barrier blocks 3500 damage every 20 seconds, thats a lot more than 10% kinetic/energy damage reduction. Edited February 21, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sorcs get 1. One of the better looking pvp sets 2. THEY SHOOT LIGHTENING OUT OF THEIR FINGERS ZOMG 3. Are space wizards 4. Have a lightsaber and therefore can show off their rare color crystals easily There is already no downside and we arent even talking about gameplay. In truth sorcs are not overpowered. They are easy to play 'reasonably well' so a bad sorc is more of a threat than a bad something else, but i think their popularity comes more from shooting lightening at people than anything else. I mean, ive had to resist the temptation myself, because being a space wizard is appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 no they are complaining about a calss that if it stands still dies in seconds but must use "faceroll" to kite and cc others to survive long enough to kill them with the LOWEST damage of all classes. they say taht's why it is the easiest class. actually i think the "easiest" is because in a pug WZ it is easy to earn medals because like any range class you can stand aside spamming, while the usual pug morons never decide to drag you into the zerg nor come to you. yes, sage is easiest to be ignored by fools. => faceroll class Actually when you do focus fire a sage/sorc you are autokited on the way to the target, knockedbacked, automezzed when shield breaks, ranged stunned, instant cast CC'd, ranged slow. Then they sprint away, heal to full behind a pole and start all over again. If you chase them down? You hurt your team. THAT is why "morons" as you call them don't focus fire them. If I focus fire a BH/Merc? They have less CC, die a whole hell of a lot quicker outside a long bubble, you can completely shut down their dps, and they don't get away with force sprint to extend the fight even longer. The hybrid specced sorc/sage isn't balanced. They need to give up survival/CC or dmg/range and the ability to escape. You can't have all of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Sorcs get 1. One of the better looking pvp sets 2. THEY SHOOT LIGHTENING OUT OF THEIR FINGERS ZOMG 3. Are space wizards 4. Have a lightsaber and therefore can show off their rare color crystals easily There is already no downside and we arent even talking about gameplay. In truth sorcs are not overpowered. They are easy to play 'reasonably well' so a bad sorc is more of a threat than a bad something else, but i think their popularity comes more from shooting lightening at people than anything else. I mean, ive had to resist the temptation myself, because being a space wizard is appealing. Fail. Sages are being rerolled to as much as sorc. It has to do with the hybrid spec being stupidly OP, not lightning...BTW everyone hates the sage storyline compared to other classes. Worst storyline I beta tested to be honest... Oh as far as lightning? Elemental shamans were the least played caster spec in WoW. Why? They sucked at pvp. They shot lightning, fireballs AND could turn into a freakin wolf. Why didn't people play them? PvP. Edited February 21, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sage/Sorc can still have 17k~ hp just like everyone else. The only ones that have more than 17k-ish are people in full-tank gear. Light Armor - 17-20% Medium Armor - 23-26% Heavy Armor - 27-29% It's not a huge difference, really. Static Barrier blocks 3500 damage every 20 seconds, thats a lot more than 10% kinetic/energy damage reduction. Going from 20% to 30% is 14.3% less damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenrais Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Omg Call the waaaaambuuullaaaance Interrupt their heals....Purge their dots...And what do you have...Their static barrier which can be broken in one good hit..and than we are squishy Marauders can demolish them with 50 interrupts and huge spike damage lets all qq about that class now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Going from 20% to 30% is 14.3% less damage I was stating the actual number difference. A lot of people act like Light Armor is 15% and Heavy Armor is 40% for non-tanks. Static Barrier is still greatly superior. 3500 damage blocked. You'd have to take like 28k kinetic/energy damage over 20 seconds in order for Heavy Armor to be better. Sorcerer/Sages are NOT squishy. They've got the most mobility/CC of all ranged classes, and just as good or better defenses because of static barrier, on top of being able to off-heal while LoSing. Edited February 21, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) The only dps class that has more health then others is... Classes with an endurance talent, which people usually skip anyways for dmg. The stam is the same on all dps gear. Armor means jack because most pvp specs have dmg that negates armor...I kill sent/marauders just as fast when they don't have rebuke up. A dps guardian/juggernaut is the "squishiest class in this game". Outside of their 3 min cooldown they can die in seconds. They wear heavy armor. I kill them on my marauder/sent in seconds... A hybrid spec sage/sorc is the most non squishy class in this game. The only people who would make this claim never played another class. The "less health" comment is just silly. This isn't vanilla WoW where you have "spirit" on your gear instead of stamina. As far as talking about merc/commandos? Why would you belittle the easiest playstyle in the game when you play the second easiest class in the game... Everyone who plays another class and has tried merc/commando/sage/sorc thinks both your AC's are a joke and that they were put in the game so that bad players could compete in pvp. BTW merc/commando isn't OP. Hybrid specced sorc/sage is. At least have some clue what you are talking about before you call the hardest to kill (not that it can't be done) or hardest dps class to focus down "squishy". They could take away the sprint and the class would still not be "squishy". They would just be focus fired easier... Theres a talent on sorc/sage trees that let em bypass armor? WoW, please point me to it. You cut trough everything like butter with marauder/sentinel. Nerf incoming. My guildy tank/DPS shadow has 24k health. Youre wrong there too. Sage/sorc IS most squishy class ingame. Hybrid or not. If bad players beat you in pvp, regardless of class, what that makes you? Pro? Good players have learned to expect and prevent sprint. Theres a myriad of skills that ignore resolve bar (none on hybrid sorc though). L2P So ill give you firendly advice: L2P Sage/Sorc can still have 17k~ hp just like everyone else. The only ones that have more than 17k-ish are people in full-tank gear. It's not a huge difference, really. Static Barrier blocks 3500 damage every 20 seconds, thats a lot more than 10% kinetic/energy damage reduction. I have 16k helath in full BM gear. So.... Fail. Sages are being rerolled to as much as sorc. It has to do with the hybrid spec being stupidly OP, not lightning...BTW everyone hates the sage storyline compared to other classes. Worst storyline I beta tested to be honest... Oh as far as lightning? Elemental shamans were the least played caster spec in WoW. Why? They sucked at pvp. They shot lightning, fireballs AND could turn into a freakin wolf. Why didn't people play them? PvP. News flash: everyone and their aunt is rerolling marauder/sentinel. Juts play some lowbie WZ lol. Edited February 21, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Fail. Sages are being rerolled to as much as sorc. It has to do with the hybrid spec being stupidly OP, not lightning...BTW everyone hates the sage storyline compared to other classes. Worst storyline I beta tested to be honest... Oh as far as lightning? Elemental shamans were the least played caster spec in WoW. Why? They sucked at pvp. They shot lightning, fireballs AND could turn into a freakin wolf. Why didn't people play them? PvP. Because: 1. Cow people are stupid looking 2. Turning into a wolf is stupid People roll sages because they listen to the forums who claim sorce/sage is op. This whole fotm thing started from people complaining about sorcs. They complained about sorcs because it was usually a sorc that killed them. It was usually a sorc that killed them because there were a LOT of sorcs. There were a lot of sorcs because they are space wizards who shoot lightening out of their fingers. Sorcs are one of the easiest classess to kill if you are either ranged yourself or have a snare. Just dont max out their resolve bar and save a stun for when they force speed and they cannot escape. Not maxing out their resolve bar at the start of the fight like an idiot is key, but then thats key to being successful in this games pvp in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Fail. Sages are being rerolled to as much as sorc. It has to do with the hybrid spec being stupidly OP, not lightning...BTW everyone hates the sage storyline compared to other classes. Worst storyline I beta tested to be honest... Oh as far as lightning? Elemental shamans were the least played caster spec in WoW. Why? They sucked at pvp. They shot lightning, fireballs AND could turn into a freakin wolf. Why didn't people play them? PvP. hybrid is not op. please tell me what makes hybrid so op over the other builds. actually it is the only build not being UNDERPOWERED! it is the only one allowing the sage being viable in grps and solo. if you think you get that more cc with hybrid, please do your homework and compare the pure builds with it. YOU DON'T!!! hybrid is the only one letting you being sowhat mobile while having the "burst" (it is pathetic saying sages to have burst) of the middle tree. you can have fun with each of the pure builds in pug pvp. but they are bad as soon as you have to defend yourself. i'm talking about level 50 pvp with good gear. don't argue that you get owned by sorcs in <=49 pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 People roll sages because they listen to the forums who claim sorce/sage is op. this and because they saw a few good players using their utilities to own noobs. and they think it is enough to play sorc to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Omg Call the waaaaambuuullaaaance Interrupt their heals....Purge their dots...And what do you have...Their static barrier which can be broken in one good hit..and than we are squishy Marauders can demolish them with 50 interrupts and huge spike damage lets all qq about that class now Yeah cus this game is based on one on one.... You have one class that can take you out and it takes 30 seconds to do on the hybrid spec if there is no line of site. Talk about "whambulance". If you are talking about a focus/rage sentinel marauder? That is "spike dmg". They are also killable on a sage/sorc and that spec is only really viable if you are running with a premade and getting heals, or you are on a realm that is horrible (pve/rp) with undergeared people pvping.The only reason you would play it is group transcendance/predation. If you want spike dmg you roll a guardian/jug. If you are dying to other classes as a hybrid specced sorc/sage? You are doing it wrong. Scoundrel/op's hit like a wet noodle now. IF they blow a 2 min vanish and outgear you they can kill you (and they die right after in a group pvp setting) in a relatively short time. Scoundrel/ops went from being your anticlass to being irritating, yet the hybrid sorc/sage spec remains the most OP spec in the game by far, while at the same time having all its counters nerfed to the ground, or neutered by the surge nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) lol at saying the forums made all the sage/sorcs. I bet less than 5% of the population that plays this game has ever looked at the forums, probably closer to 1%. That sure explains games when there's 6 Sorcs on one team. Sage/Sorc has been considered OP since beta, the only thing that was mellowing them out at all was that Operative/Scoundrel could kill them quickly, and they got nerfed a ton. Edited February 21, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah cus this game is based on one on one.... You have one class that can take you out and it takes 30 seconds to do on the hybrid spec if there is no line of site. all classes can take out a sage or sorc. ALL! and at least 3 do it easily. one or maybe two even during a stunnlock. you don't know what you are talking about! no one of your whiners ever faced at 50 a 50 sage/sorc, both you and him well geared and with knowledge of the dynamics of sage/sorc to counter him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I was stating the actual number difference. A lot of people act like Light Armor is 15% and Heavy Armor is 40% for non-tanks. Static Barrier is still greatly superior. 3500 damage blocked. You'd have to take like 28k kinetic/energy damage over 20 seconds in order for Heavy Armor to be better. Sorcerer/Sages are NOT squishy. They've got the most mobility/CC of all ranged classes, and just as good or better defenses because of static barrier, on top of being able to off-heal while LoSing. 3500 damage is one hit EHP doesnt mean a whole lot in a game with healers heal spamming. Not to mention, whats stopping anyone else from being bubbled by a sorc? thats 3500 extra damage everyone on the team has if its a heal speced sorc, and if its not then seriously one 3500 bubble is not going to save them from a good dps. I say sorcs/sages are the most squishy because in my experience KILLING THEM, the only things that are a 'surer kill' if i get on them are snipers/gunslingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 this and because they saw a few good players using their utilities to own noobs. and they think it is enough to play sorc to do the same. A "few good players". LOL. Now add instant cast dots/bubble, an instant proc, ALL INSTANT CAST and AUTOMATIC cc. MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD SKILLLS. SO INTENSE. My german shepherd could play this class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenrais Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah cus this game is based on one on one.... You have one class that can take you out and it takes 30 seconds to do on the hybrid spec if there is no line of site. Talk about "whambulance". If you are talking about a focus/rage sentinel marauder? That is "spike dmg". They are also killable on a sage/sorc and that spec is only really viable if you are running with a premade and getting heals, or you are on a realm that is horrible (pve/rp) with undergeared people pvping.The only reason you would play it is group transcendance/predation. If you want spike dmg you roll a guardian/jug. If you are dying to other classes as a hybrid specced sorc/sage? You are doing it wrong. Scoundrel/op's hit like a wet noodle now. IF they blow a 2 min vanish and outgear you they can kill you (and they die right after in a group pvp setting) in a relatively short time. Scoundrel/ops went from being your anticlass to being irritating, yet the hybrid sorc/sage spec remains the most OP spec in the game by far, while at the same time having all its counters nerfed to the ground, or neutered by the surge nerf. Yes.Cry more.... Bioware said themselves sorcerers/sages are the most balanced class in the game. All you need to do is. burst the barrier.. Interrupt their spells.. And than your pretty much screwed. We get hit pretty hard without our utility. True story.. Plus i've seen many marauders who are 50 with an entire champ set rip through sorcerers and sages with BM gear really quickly.so dunno what your talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 lol at saying the forums made all the sage/sorcs. I bet less than 5% of the population that plays this game even look at the forums, probably closer to 1%. That sure explains games when there's 6 Sorcs on one team. considered by whom? and you ignore the many that say the opposite? and if you say forums don't count because 5% etc. this means you have only evidence of <5% people saying the are op. level to 50 and get good gear and see how dangerous a sage/sorc still is to you. man, so much childish bulls.hit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 all classes can take out a sage or sorc. ALL! and at least 3 do it easily. one or maybe two even during a stunnlock. you don't know what you are talking about! no one of your whiners ever faced at 50 a 50 sage/sorc, both you and him well geared and with knowledge of the dynamics of sage/sorc to counter him. It is impossible for me to die on a hybrid specced sage to "all classes". Dude lay off the illegal substances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) It is impossible for me to die on a hybrid specced sage to "all classes". Dude lay off the illegal substances. you started with that. i just answered in the same manner as you posted. so don't whine about yourself. p.s. and it is possible btw. Edited February 21, 2012 by me_unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_krall Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Why so many people in online games prefer to faceroll their face off than achieve something with a little bit of skill? Almost every WZ i enter there are like 6-8 inquisitors in one team. I cant even see map cuz everything is purple, so many stupid lightnings. I never get that, why ppl roll classes that are easy and for newbs, just like ret palas in wotlk, just like frost mages now. Please BW nerf sorcerers. Sick damage, like 3 imbollizes, stun, bubble, bubble-blind, healz, sprint, constant channeled slow, knockbacks. I mean it, what the...? I just was in WZ where total number of players were 16, and there were 13 inquisitors... PvP in SWTOR isn't cool anyway, but sorcerers make it even worse. Please do something about it because this is riddicolous. See ya peeps and may the force be with You. Made up ********. You are a lying **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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