eklipzze Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Actually, there is no way that he received a warning for doing this. PvP servers specifically state that situations that can be resolved via PvP are not considered griefing. Can't kill a World Boss because the opposite faction is killing you? There is a PvP solution to your problem! The OP needs to take a screenshot of the warning and link it in the thread. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesrik Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) And the rules of conduct specifically state the opposite. Both can't be right and your assumption which one is correct is just that, an assumption. Actually, I'm also speaking from experience. About a month or so back, we found a group of 12 sith trying to kill the Belsavis world boss. We wiped them over and over 8v12 until they just gave up. Then, we killed the boss and took the loots (including the pattern for Magenta Crystal). The Imps made Republic characters to talk trash and tell us we were getting reported for harassment. Not a single person received a warning. Edited February 19, 2012 by Kesrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Actually, I'm also speaking from experience. About a month or so back, we found a group of 12 sith trying to kill the Belsavis world boss. We wiped them over and over 8v12 until they just gave up. Then, we killed the boss and took the loots (including the pattern for Magenta Crystal). The Imps made Republic characters to talk trash and tell us we were getting reported for harassment. Not a single person received a warning. 1. You don't know if they actually did report you. 2. Unless the exact same CSR responded the point is moot. GM decisions are temporary and not necessarily consistent. Until Bioware explains its stance (both to us and to the CSRs) we won't know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Well I have never been camped at a medcenter but I have had something similar happen on a couple other MMO games. Personally I think anything goes on a PVP server and I'm not above occasionally killing lowbies or getting together gank groups but I do think camping a med center is pretty cheap. I doubt I would do that unless someone did it to me first. I think that issue is easy to solve though. Put some lvl 50 guards around each med center or somethign else to deter campers. They already have some level 50 guards at some areas, especially outposts. I was with an ops on Hoth after we killed the world boss. We then decided to find a "town" to "raid". Didn't work out, seeing as A) There was nobody there and B) there were level 50 turrets that were literally invincible (as in they had 50k hp or something stupid and took less than 20 damage each hit). That discouraged me from doing that again. Pity, actually, considering the death penalties for this game are pitiful. I remember actually losing things on death in games. In this one, you lose some Durability and some time. The durability problem is solved by throwing some credits at it (credits are pretty useless anyway, honestly), and the time factor is a minor factor in a game that you spend days of in-game time on anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eklipzze Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 They already have some level 50 guards at some areas, especially outposts. I was with an ops on Hoth after we killed the world boss. We then decided to find a "town" to "raid". Didn't work out, seeing as A) There was nobody there and B) there were level 50 turrets that were literally invincible (as in they had 50k hp or something stupid and took less than 20 damage each hit). That discouraged me from doing that again. Pity, actually, considering the death penalties for this game are pitiful. I remember actually losing things on death in games. In this one, you lose some Durability and some time. The durability problem is solved by throwing some credits at it (credits are pretty useless anyway, honestly), and the time factor is a minor factor in a game that you spend days of in-game time on anyway... The days of serious consequences for death are long over. Casuals killed that, especially after they made WOW so popular and changed the MMO template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesrik Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 1. You don't know if they actually did report you. 2. Unless the exact same CSR responded the point is moot. GM decisions are temporary and not necessarily consistent. Until Bioware explains its stance (both to us and to the CSRs) we won't know for sure. I guess we also don't know whether or not all the servers will go down tomorrow and all our characters deleted because Bioware hasn't specifically assured us that it will not happen. Until Bioware explains its stance on random character deletions, we won't know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I guess we also don't know whether or not all the servers will go down tomorrow and all our characters deleted because Bioware hasn't specifically assured us that it will not happen. Until Bioware explains its stance on random character deletions, we won't know for sure. If you want to take the OP's word as gospel then that's your call. I take outrageous claims on the internet with a pinch of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesrik Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If you want to take the OP's word as gospel then that's your call. I take outrageous claims on the internet with a pinch of salt. Actually, the OP is claiming he received a warning for killing people in World PvP. I stated that this is probably unlikely, as killing people in a PvP flagged area is NEVER considered griefing. Did you even read the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Actually, the OP is claiming he received a warning for killing people in World PvP. I stated that this is probably unlikely, as killing people in a PvP flagged area is NEVER considered griefing. Did you even read the OP? Yes, but I haven't committed every post over 26 pages to memory. Is the above post because you are actually taking the alts which the guys created to tell you that you had been reported as gospel rather than taking the OP's word as gospel. What did these people who made low levels alts in your faction do to instil such trust in them that you are certain they were telling the truth? Edited February 19, 2012 by Jestunhi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 2. Unless the exact same CSR responded the point is moot. GM decisions are temporary and not necessarily consistent. Until Bioware explains its stance (both to us and to the CSRs) we won't know for sure. That's usually been my experience in games. Seems like most of the time it's just the luck of the draw and depends on how the CS member interprets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesrik Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Yes, but I haven't committed every post over 26 pages to memory. Is the above post because you are actually taking the alts which the guys created to tell you that you had been reported as gospel rather than taking the OP's word as gospel. What did these people who made low levels alts in your faction do to instil such trust in them that you are certain they were telling the truth? And what makes you think they didn't report us? If someone takes the time to actually create a character, then whisper rude things, I'm sure they would be motivated enough to actually create a ticket. Yes, I'm making assumptions. Yes, assumptions that are logical are usually correct. Yes, that's also an assumption. And yes, I know you are being contrary just to be contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 And what makes you think they didn't report us? If someone takes the time to actually create a character, then whisper rude things, I'm sure they would be motivated enough to actually create a ticket. Yes, I'm making assumptions. Yes, assumptions that are logical are usually correct. Yes, that's also an assumption. And yes, I know you are being contrary just to be contrary. *sigh* I never said that they didn't report you, I said that you don't know if they did. Someone telling you that they will report you and you not getting a warning is not enough to prove anything whatsoever about whether it's allowed. Hopefully you can agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesrik Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 *sigh* I never said that they didn't report you, I said that you don't know if they did. Someone telling you that they will report you and you not getting a warning is not enough to prove anything whatsoever about whether it's allowed. Hopefully you can agree with this. I just reported you for disagreeing with me, since that's not allowed. If you don't get a warning, are you going to assume that I didn't put in a ticket, or that disagreeing with me isn't actually against the rules. I'm hoping that you'll insist that you don't know whether it's against the rules to disagree with me. Maybe you'll spend many sleepless nights worrying about the warning that may or may not come. --- It would be ridiculous to get a warning for disagreeing with me. It would also be ridiculous to get a warning for PvPing in a PvP flagged zone on a PvP server. We can intelligently assume that, in both cases, you won't get a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I just reported you for disagreeing with me, since that's not allowed. If you don't get a warning, are you going to assume that I didn't put in a ticket, or that disagreeing with me isn't actually against the rules. I'm hoping that you'll insist that you don't know whether it's against the rules to disagree with me. Maybe you'll spend many sleepless nights worrying about the warning that may or may not come. --- It would be ridiculous to get a warning for disagreeing with me. It would also be ridiculous to get a warning for PvPing in a PvP flagged zone on a PvP server. We can intelligently assume that, in both cases, you won't get a warning. Except we have no proof of what occurred, just a post by someone who has since admitted that he left before the warning was issued (and therefore didn't get one himself) making it a 2nd hand story. I agree, if it was just a case of "pvp on a pvp server" then no warning should be issued - however you don't know what happened, I don't know what happened and tbh the OP doesn't know what happened after he left. Not only is there no proof of what happened, but there is no proof of any tickets or any punishments. If I made a post about being warned for killing a mob on a pve server would your default reaction be total and complete belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesrik Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Why do I get the feeling that you never even read my posts? Every single post that I've made has been to express skepticism about the OP's claims of receiving a warning. In fact, your last sentence pretty much sums up what I just posted. let me quote it for you side by side: It would be ridiculous to get a warning for disagreeing with me. It would also be ridiculous to get a warning for PvPing in a PvP flagged zone on a PvP server. We can intelligently assume that, in both cases, you won't get a warning. If I made a post about being warned for killing a mob on a pve server would your default reaction be total and complete belief? If something is ridiculous (getting warned for killing a mob on a pve server, getting warned for pvping on a pvp server, getting warned for disagreeing with someone on the forums), then it's pretty safe to assume that it didn't, and won't, happen. Sounds to me like you agree with me, except you didn't actually read what I wrote Also: I agree, if it was just a case of "pvp on a pvp server" then no warning should be issued I agree. In the context of this thread, no warning should be issued for PvP on a PvP server. Anything else that you assume did or did not happen doesn't fit into the scope of this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatwarlord Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 You admit that the goal was to deny them of something. Yes, that is griefing:rolleyes:. Camping the boss, when you have no interest in it yourself other than to disrupt others, is pretty lame and malicious. You beat them. Congrats, move on. Don't stick around and bully them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Anything else that you assume did or did not happen doesn't fit into the scope of this discussion. This is where we clearly disagree. The discussion I'm having is not limited 100% to what was said in the OP, it's what we are discussing in the thread as a whole. And that includes the rest of the circumstances which have been discussed as well as how likely it is that the OP is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSteak Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 *skips topic* No, attacking isn't griefing. Being able to AOE and break their death-stealth and strip away their chance to recover, however, is griefing. Personally, I'm amazed this wasn't an issue that got solved in beta testing. Rather than stealth, just give a stealth based invulnerability. Attack and it disappears, get hit and nothing happens. Simple sounding enough, but apparently impossible to program in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Attacking other players while they kill a boss = no problem. Just killing the adds to force an enrage = exploit. There's a line between PVP'ing and exploiting mechanics to grief and from what you're saying in this thread it seems like you crossed it. In other PVP games I've played when you die your corpse can be looted, which prevents these suicide run at the NPC sort of "tactics" but since there's basically no real penalty for dying they do need to put some rules in place to prevent you from doing some things that are not what they designed the game to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApthNZ Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Attacking other players while they kill a boss = no problem. Just killing the adds to force an enrage = exploit. There's a line between PVP'ing and exploiting mechanics to grief and from what you're saying in this thread it seems like you crossed it. In other PVP games I've played when you die your corpse can be looted, which prevents these suicide run at the NPC sort of "tactics" but since there's basically no real penalty for dying they do need to put some rules in place to prevent you from doing some things that are not what they designed the game to do. People in PvP zones on a PvP server should expect to get killed by players. I don't understand how this is viewed as 'exploiting' or 'griefing'; players are warned twice about PvP - once in the login screen, once when they enter a PvP area - so this sort of thing shouldn't be unexpected. I don't accept that camping or enraging a boss in a PvP area is 'griefing' - it's a PvP server goddamnit, denying the opposition content is essentially your aim. If I started complaining that I couldn't complete my PvP daily/weekly quests because Republic players kept killing me, I'd get laughed at. Given that this is a PvP server and not a PvE server that we're discussing, I don't see that it's any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoomZ-AA- Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 i would never consider this griefing. this happened all the time in WoW, and it was part of the world PVP goodness. if you're on a PVP server expect it, dont cry about it. AND IF BIOWARE IS GOING TO CATER to these babies on PVP servers, then that is complete bs. are they trying to lose subs? are some of their game masters not completely trained on the rules of pvp servers? i say keep doing it, there really isn't much they can/should be doing about you killing a guild that is trying to kill a world boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) First off I will be blunt and straight to point so you are warned. If you choose to go to a PvP server, then PvP will happen. I do not care what planet it is, or if you don't understand that. If it says "Contested PvP" then by all means take that as serious as it has been warned. I find the lack of understanding and complaining going on by people is hilarious. What you expect no PvP on a PvP server? Here is a little sarcastic ABC, A. If Your raid group wipes, the objective you wanted done got interrupted by PvP, and you lost. B. People that use the word "griefing" has no buisness being on a PvP server PERIOD. C. Really? If a area or planet says "CONTESTED PVP", then by all means you better be prepaired for it. You are correct level 50's are looking to kill you. Yes that is what people do, they go to lower level planets to kill people. Levels don't matter on a PvP server, you are red then that = dead. I will repeat red=dead, I don't care if you don't like it. Get used to them facts, watch your back, and if you can't handle the heat in the kitchen a PvE server is that way --------> Real talk. Edited February 20, 2012 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunartic Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 @ OP, First off I will be blunt and straight to point so you are warned. If you choose to go to a PvP server, then PvP will happen. I do not care what planet it is, or if you don't understand that. If it says "Contested PvP" then by all means take that as serious as it has been warned. I find the lack of understanding and complaining going on by you OP hilarious. What you expect no PvP on a PvP server? Here is a little sarcastic ABC for ya, A. Your raid group wiped, the objective you wanted done got interrupted by PvP, and you lost. B. People that use the word "griefing" has no buisness being on a PvP server PERIOD. C. Really? If a area or planet says "CONTESTED PVP", then by all means you better be prepaired for it. You are correct level 50's are looking to kill you. Yes that is what people do, they go to lower level planets to kill people. Levels don't matter on a PvP server, you are red then that = dead. I will repeat red=dead, I don't care if you don't like it. Get used to them facts, watch your back, and if you can't handle the heat in the kitchen a PvE server is that way --------> Real talk. Um... pretty sure op was supporting PVP, not against it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApotheosisLanyx Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 @ OP, First off I will be blunt and straight to point so you are warned. If you choose to go to a PvP server, then PvP will happen. I do not care what planet it is, or if you don't understand that. If it says "Contested PvP" then by all means take that as serious as it has been warned. I find the lack of understanding and complaining going on by you OP hilarious. What you expect no PvP on a PvP server? Here is a little sarcastic ABC for ya, A. Your raid group wiped, the objective you wanted done got interrupted by PvP, and you lost. B. People that use the word "griefing" has no buisness being on a PvP server PERIOD. C. Really? If a area or planet says "CONTESTED PVP", then by all means you better be prepaired for it. You are correct level 50's are looking to kill you. Yes that is what people do, they go to lower level planets to kill people. Levels don't matter on a PvP server, you are red then that = dead. I will repeat red=dead, I don't care if you don't like it. Get used to them facts, watch your back, and if you can't handle the heat in the kitchen a PvE server is that way --------> Real talk. can't read. lol. probably a baddie too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lJustAlexl Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Wonder when he'll realize the topic title was asking a question and not making a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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