Patch 1.2 may be to late.

[Buxaroo]

I would say that being to late may not be the issue as much as not being enough. I am looking at pvp atm and thought Bioware was going to be different. However, imo it is a lot worse, once again we have pvp gear, that makes all the difference. Why do you even need pvp gear? Just to make less skillful players powerful? everyone pvp naked and see what pvp is suppose to be...a battle of skill and strategy not gear.

 

EVE already does this Only in EVE can a gang of 10 new players kill a 6 year vet using strategy and tactics.

[babados]

That could just as easily happen here, provided any server actually had a queue.

 

it did happen here at launch then they added servers and made hotfixes so we would not have ques, so i don't see your point.

[Andryah]

The game has many flaws, and it isn't perfect.

 

That being said, my subscription stays active because I think the game is awesome enough to negate flaws. I see BW working actively every day hand in hand with the players to improve the game. For me, I think being patient will have a big payoff over time.

 

I agree.

[bboudreaux]

BW really needs to start incrementally adding in patch 1.2 and soon, or they may find themselves a bit short on players - many people did like myself, and bought a two month card to play, and it will run out.. way before the last of March and early April.

 

That being said, if theres no change by then, I am not about to put another two months cash while I wait - a wait that may or may not be broken by finding another game entirely. Others I am sure feel the same.

 

An incremental output would at least show they HAVE stuff completed, it wont interfere with anyones playtime - heck every Tuesday patch eh? It would also lower the amount of *surprise* "patches to fix the patch" that happens to every game with a major update.

 

Let's have a constructive discussion about this.

 

Can you honestly tell me and everyone here that you actually believe a single patch will make or break a game?? COME ON, get real!!!

 

regardless of what you personally believe, you do not represent the majority of players

[Berazad]

what takes them 3-6 months to fix?

 

I guess you obviously wern't around during the orc shoulder bug? Blizzards responce was basically " yeah deal with it we'll fix it at a later date " so orcs were forced to go around looking like circus acts, super tiny shoulders smaller than even belfs. I believe it was 2.1 that they screwed up the shoulders and it wasn't fixed until around 2.2 which was slightly over three months.

 

I'm pretty sure the hunter / warlock pet bug is still there in which the pet and the mob decide to run off out of attacking range and you need to catch up to them. Even if this has been fixed now it still took them about 5 years to fix it (maybe longer).

 

Shortly before i quit WoW i spent alot of time pvping and i found myself being feared through the horde bases wall in WSG which then resulted in me falling through the world and dying. This has been present since vanilla, it's unfortunate that the old forums were closed when battle.net came along as i could of gathered alot more examples of how great blizzard are at fixing things.

 

No game company is perfect simple as.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Berazad

[Darth_Grissom]

this game wont die it will just become a **** MMO that no one cares about with less than 2 million players and never match up to wow.

 

 

I wont go back to wow but i cant stay here Time to find a new hobby instead of waiting around for bad games to come out.

 

I care about this because?

 

Sorry I am not a share holder and will stay with this game it if keeps and sustains 500k subs that is needed for the game to stay afloat and keep a profit.

[Tiam]

Never under estimate the bitterness of MMO players who leave and never come back. There was a reason why SWG failed, and that was NGE. When that hit, people like me (which were the majority) quit the game and never looked back. Right now its not just the patches to fix minor bugs (Defend the Shipment on Ilum is just plain dumb how long its been broke though), its the game itself that doesn't seem to have any longevity in it besides the new voice acting quests coming up. Other than that, TOR needs a complete revamping if it wants to still be a contender in 2 years (you think the game looks outdated now, wait until all of the other new MMO's come out).

 

And don't you DARE say we need to have patience. If your IQ is normal, you would notice that my join date was 2008, before half of you even heard about TOR I bet. So don't give me **** about being "patient" with a game that has had $150 mil budget, has been in development for 5 years, and has supposedly "learned" from other MMOS. Apparently not as much as they think.

 

 

That's exactly how I am with mmo's. They have a few months to grab my attention. If they do I stay. With SWTOR it reminds me too much of mistakes made with Warhammer, so after my sub is done I won't look back. I am in 2 other games beta's atm too so I have more to play and don't see myself going back to SWTOR, not even to read the forums to see how it is doing.

[Kalfear]

My point though was that without some show of good faith a LOT of people who leave.. well they aint coming back. Not just me , as I would check in now and again, but for a LOT of people, once done, done. And that would kill this game in infancy fairly well.

 

Would like to see a prospectus on how many active subs they NEED to survive, but doubt that will ever come out. And the random numbers people toss out dont help - if a small base was enough Tabula Rasa would still be online

 

Not for nothing but Bioware (Damn it, Bioware doesnt exist in reality anymore) EA RPG studio stated they need only 500,000 subs to break even.

 

But as many people have tried to explain to the EA fanbois, Breaking Even or simply making a profit is not the definition of success for this title. The stock holders expect a certain % of return from this title.

 

And your right, it will never be released (unless it was shattered on the positive side, which its not).

 

My own educated veiw is the Stock holders were looking for between a 3-5 million subscriber base, with a average stay of 24 months, in North America/European/UK collective figures and then additional Korean, Japan, ect numbers that are so freaking hard to judge Im not even going to qualify a guess on projected estimations there.

 

TOR has come up short on those numbers and from all appearences will come up really short on the lenght of stay subscription numbers as (coming from someone who wanted to play for years and years and years before playing game) I just dont see how they keep players here over the 6-9 month period.

 

Also, as others have said though, if you not sure if its worth subbing just 2 months after release, this probably not for you as nothing going to get fixed in 2-3-4 months time.

 

Personally Ive subbed for 6 months (plus the free month) so thats 7 months. Ill probably single month it after that till first expansion and that will tell me the long term direction of the game and if its for me, while having given them more then enough time to hear, determine, act on, the complaints and suggestions. If they dont get it by first expansion time, they either never going to get it or refuse to listen to anyone but fanbois (which has killed many a game before).

 

Time will tell this story of TOR long term success or decline into F2P market.

 

PS: You are correct that those people that do leave in the first 6 months of this game will never return. The fanbois are being flat out dellusional when they tell people to leave and then come back when the changes are made. Those subs that leave in the first 6 months, they will never return no matter whats done to game. They are lost subscribers.

 

Thats why the initial launch of ANY BUSSINESS is so important.

 

You only have 1 chance to make a good first impression.

 

Not 2, not 3 not 5.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Kalfear

[ROSS-]

 

...

My own educated veiw is the Stock holders were looking for between a 3-5 million subscriber base, with a average stay of 24 months, in North America/European/UK collective figures and then additional Korean, Japan, ect numbers that are so freaking hard to judge Im not even going to qualify a guess on projected estimations there.

 

TOR has come up short on those numbers and from all appearences will come up really short on the lenght of stay subscription numbers as (coming from someone who wanted to play for years and years and years before playing game) I just dont see how they keep players here over the 6-9 month period.

 

 

Lol. I love you set an impossible mark for a game to reach in 2 months (3-5 million subs), and then pound BW for coming up short.

[Goldenstar]

Patch 1.2 is already too late for me...signed up for GW2 closwed beta this afternoon. If I get accepted there, I'm done wtih TOR.

[Foch]

i am just glad that I can sit back and play the game and enjoy it!!

I feel sorry for the crybabies who for whatever reason do not enjoy playing swtor but they have to come to the forums and make a funny i quit ************ thread..

[MrSilentOne]

The delay in 1.2 isn't going to kill the game. And its release isn't going to revitalize the game either. The delay of 1.2 is simply an inconvenience. Frankly some of the stuff that is coming in 1.2 is stuff that should have been in the release.

 

There are many in this thread that would say "this game is only a few months old, you can't expect them to have certain stuff because it took WoW x amount of time to do that".

 

Yes, it did take WoW a long time to put things in. However, that doesn't mean SWTOR needs to reinvent the wheel and take just as long to put similar things in. Case in point - dual spec. WoW took forever to do this (and it was largely driven by player suggestion) but other games quickly caught on or even expanded the idea, just look at the system Trion gave Rift.

 

There are many other features that WoW took a long time to make but now are perceived as 'standard features' and the lack of them becomes glaringly obvious.

 

The content that is coming with 1.2 can wait, but the features that players are clamoring for should be implemented incrementally as soon as they are stable.

[mental_chaos]

I wish the thread title would have the qualifier "for me" added, or "in my opinion." "Too late for me" now that would make sense and we can discuss perceptions on the game and deciding to sub or unsub. And there are constructive points in this thread. But there also seems to be a lot of extrapolating one's personal opinion to "Too late for the game" So many variables involved its all pure guess work.

 

Assumptions based on anecdotal evidence seem to be slung around alot. And even that is an anecdotal assumption of mine The only hard data that matters is number of subscriptions (or even better subscriptions over time). And that type of info probably won't be publicly available and it is the type of info that only comes after the fact..at the end of the day type stuff.

 

Every subscription is an individual with an opinion of this game. Assuming a subscriber is a person who has already bought the game and after 30 days decides to initially pay for a subscription, then a million subscribers(random number here) would mean a million individuals who probably qualify as very much like and very much not like you and all types of shades of grey in between, individuals each acting on their own varied experience and opinion to make a simple choice on the proposition to resubscribe or unsubscribe.

 

Individually for me? The game is what it is, and I hope they add features. I hope they are working on it to make it have staying power. Constructive feedback? Awesome. I hope they listen to why people decide to unsubscribe and gauge this on the fly with what makes people stay as far as general population dynamics, and I hope they see some of the ideas offered by others for moving forward.

 

Other people like me? Well that's a could be/probably/maybe but certainly an "oh so hard" to quantify assumption that can get good ideas and good reasons for leaving mired in another pure guesswork state of the game thread.

[ArlindoGMNeto]

if a small base was enough Tabula Rasa would still be online

 

Note to self: never play a NCsoft game again...

 

OP: we were promised an orange, but we were given a banana, and its not even ripe yet...

[ArlindoGMNeto]

I care about this because?

 

Sorry I am not a share holder and will stay with this game it if keeps and sustains 500k subs that is needed for the game to stay afloat and keep a profit.

 

Lol GL enjoying your empty servers, long queues for WZ, FP and so on...

[Durasturan]

Could you imagine what people would be saying about WoW if it released right now? No BG's, no endgame raids, lacks tons of features that SWTOR launched with, massive server instability, etc.

 

No MMO has launched with a full set of features. NONE. SWTOR is no different. I am not going to tell people how to spend their money or tell them that they should enjoy a game when they are not. What people do need to change is their expectations. If posts in this thread are any indication, no MMO will ever live up to some people's expectations. People see an MMO with 12 years of total development (i.e. WoW) and expect another MMO to do the same in less than half the time. Sorry, that doesn't happen.

 

You're definately right, but I would go one further, they expect SWTOR to develop MORE content in half the time and at 1/3 the cost. If you bought vanilla and each expansion when it came out, you paid literally hundreds of dollars, that's not even including the sub fees that paid for all of the patches and content. I've easily spent over $1000 on WoW, between my sub over the years and buying the expansions. It's just unreasonable to expect a $60 game to have as much content as a $240 game.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Durasturan

[madhotsoup]

It's a marketing tactic. They want you to get tired of waiting so you will get hooked on ME3, then they'll release the patch like a month after

[GalacticKegger]

I wish the thread title would have the qualifier "for me" added, or "in my opinion." "Too late for me" now that would make sense and we can discuss perceptions on the game and deciding to sub or unsub. And there are constructive points in this thread. But there also seems to be a lot of extrapolating one's personal opinion to "Too late for the game" So many variables involved its all pure guess work.

 

Assumptions based on anecdotal evidence seem to be slung around alot. And even that is an anecdotal assumption of mine The only hard data that matters is number of subscriptions (or even better subscriptions over time). And that type of info probably won't be publicly available and it is the type of info that only comes after the fact..at the end of the day type stuff.

 

Every subscription is an individual with an opinion of this game. Assuming a subscriber is a person who has already bought the game and after 30 days decides to initially pay for a subscription, then a million subscribers(random number here) would mean a million individuals who probably qualify as very much like and very much not like you and all types of shades of grey in between, individuals each acting on their own varied experience and opinion to make a simple choice on the proposition to resubscribe or unsubscribe.

 

Individually for me? The game is what it is, and I hope they add features. I hope they are working on it to make it have staying power. Constructive feedback? Awesome. I hope they listen to why people decide to unsubscribe and gauge this on the fly with what makes people stay as far as general population dynamics, and I hope they see some of the ideas offered by others for moving forward.

 

Other people like me? Well that's a could be/probably/maybe but certainly an "oh so hard" to quantify assumption that can get good ideas and good reasons for leaving mired in another pure guesswork state of the game thread.

Then by all means do not disguise good ideas and good reasons for leaving behind this being another pure guesswork state of the game thread - which it has indeed become. You have chosen to speak up in a most sanquin and eloquent fashion. Therefor you must speak your mind in similar fashion for you sit at the round table. Edited February 24, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[skelliher]

I've no idea whether this game will be a long term success or not. I can only judge my own reaction. I came to the game with high expectations because it was Bioware. The expectations were moderately fulfilled. Leveling is actually fun, unlike the few other MMOs I've played. The end-game, on the other hand, is not. So, once I've leveled four characters, I expect to be dropping my subscription.

 

Good luck to EA and Bioware after that. I've no idea what the plan for long-term subscriptions is. I just don't see a reason to stick around after my sub ends.

[Turando]

Let's have a constructive discussion about this.

 

Uh-huh, yeah I am sure you are open minded enough for it.

 

This is really getting tiring.....

- Nevermind BW has rolled major patches out practically weekly and sometimes more than once a week.

- Nevermind BW has bent over backwards listening to these forums and prioritizing major issues like Ability Delay.

- Nevermind BW introduced additional end game content within the first month.

- Nevermind BW will have their second MAJOR patch in the first 3 months of play.

- Nevermind practically every server has enjoyed near 100% uptime outside of scheduled maintenance.

 

The game ain't perfect, if you were expecting it to be, or demanding every fix that is personally important to you within 3 months of release, you truly are insufferable.

[AnotherJaggens]

Exact minute I realise that new pve ops, included in 1.2, is another casual style parade of boredom - I'm done with that game. Not that it's bad or something, but it will be clear that SWTOR wasn't and isn't developed for hardcore players.

[denpic]

Exact minute I realise that new pve ops, included in 1.2, is another casual style parade of boredom - I'm done with that game. Not that it's bad or something, but it will be clear that SWTOR wasn't and isn't developed for hardcore players.

 

Name 1 current game that's for "hardcore" players

I don't believe they exist

[fixit]

Don't forsee me playing this game much longer, under impression that 1.2 is months away and by that point other titles may or may not be released. This imo is far to late.

 

Frankly, the only reason why I am still even subbing TOR is fact there is nothing else to play "MMO" wise. BW launched this game at the perfect moment in time, I will give them that much.

 

Though I swore never to play another over seas MMO, Tera is looking more and more attractive and that's coming soon.

 

Also recent posts from Blizz indicate that D3 will have release date set soon . I still play D2 LoD to this very day, 10+ years later: as long as they stick to the original gameplay/loots/etc it's going to be good stuff.

 

Hopefulley both those titles will keep me interested until Guild Wars 2 which may very well smash the genre. Not only does it have way better graphics, it will have no sub cost. NONE.

 

I had the pleasure to watch a friend play the recent closed beta of GW2 and we both agreed this game could be the future. Best example why GW2 is going to rock is the fact that the ENGINE can handle mass PvP without much if any performance drops. Meanwhile in TOR I enjoy a lovely 5 FPS in Ilum scrums with more than 50 people involved...with vid settings at the lowest. This is same machine that handles BF3 at max settings in a 32 v 32 match at 60+ FPS. /confused.

 

GW2 is also built for PvP. DAoC style W v W v W is going to be absolutely awsome.

 

While TOR has the best leveling I have ever seen in an MMO so far, end game is terribly boring.

 

Oh well, time to try to do my PvP daily and get 15 more useless champ tokens from a BM bag then log off. Yep almost rank 67 and missing 5 items still...wee! Amusingly I know a guy who is rank 63 and him + his companion have full BM. Yes, his pet has better gear than I do. RNGwars ftw!

 

W/e, I will be gone soon enough. Glad some people think this game is the bees knees, have fun!

Edited February 25, 2012 by fixit

[ArmchairMagpie]

Don't forsee me playing this game much longer, under impression that 1.2 is months away and by that point other titles may or may not be released. This imo is far to late.[...]

 

It's slated for March. If they keep their timetable it may not even be a whole month away.

[txtech]

I would honestly rather have patches that work than rushed patches that caused more issues than solved.

 

I'm pretty sure what Miyeko is saying is they should adopt a more Agile approach and abandon Waterfall for minor releases. Once it's working in a particular sprint, implement it.