Time to end Biochem reusables

[SoyChulo]

Biochem will still make money selling consumables as it has been since launch. Other crafting skills can not make that claim. As far as synth and armormech are concerned, once players buy the gear they want the market will be saturated. But they will still need to buy stims, adrenals and medpacks from biochem.

[HanzBlix]

Let me see you pay 1mil credits for that belt with an augment, or that bracer with an augment. I'll be reading your post of nerf calling on other professions and will quote you this thread.

Selling adrenals will not be a viable solution after 1.2 is well in it way and gear progresses, but crafted armor will still be expensive, if you wish to have BiS.

The nerf for biochem has be called out by many people that cannot see past the fence and when the stims will not be viable anymore, adrenals will not be worth it and med packs will be outdated then this crew skill will be nothing more that an useless NPC space in the crew skill fleet section.

 

Also could you please elaborate on "It will still be more than useful as reusables get phased out" because phasing out means that the contribution of the said adrenal/stim will not have an impact, hence making it useless not useful.

 

Edit: thy were not talking only about reusables, BW will phase out all types of stims/adrenals. I could not care less for the reusables as the prototype ones are more powerful in most cases; the nerf calling for biochem has gone so far that it will not be viable even without reusables (read the developers tracker).

 

Go ahead, because I never chased flavor of the month. I still have my armormech that I originally made when everyone said how much they suck. I did biochem on alt one to ensure that I could make CONSUMABLES for my toons, regardless with what they did with the profession. I didn't bank on OP reusables on my main that raids. I know it's going to make people sad that their crew skill will no longer be required end game, but get over it.

 

Oh I also have a 400 slicer which is L337, even though people complain about how hard it got nerfed, it's still awesome. People will whine about anything.

 

OP crew skill is OP period.

[gibmachine]

Biochem will still make money selling consumables as it has been since launch. Other crafting skills can not make that claim. As far as synth and armormech are concerned, once players buy the gear they want the market will be saturated. But they will still need to buy stims, adrenals and medpacks from biochem.

 

And what about those people that arem't about making money? Let's say I want to pick a profession for personal gain and not having to worry about crafting and selling. Hell, I'll be able to do just that with artifice and synth post-1.2 but over time, my gain via biochem will disappear and I'll be forced to farm mats and craft consumables EVERY DAY.

 

If that's the direction they want to take then make those augmented gear pieces disappear after 3 days. I mean then the synthweavers will have to take part in the trading right?

Edited March 14, 2012 by gibmachine

[HanzBlix]

And what about those people that arem't about making money? Let's say I want to pick a profession for personal gain and not having to worry about crafting and selling. Hell, I'll be able to do just that with artifice and synth post-1.2 but over time, my gain via biochem will disappear and I'll be forced to farm mats and craft consumables EVERY DAY.

 

if that's the direction they want to take then make those augmented belts disappear after 3 days. I mean then the synthweavers will have to take part in the trading right?

 

Because you'll still be able to craft the "best" for yourself, AND spend a whole lot less for them.

 

In any MMO I've ever played, the crafted gear is not superior to raid drops or even HM drops. The made the reusable consumables so powerful that literally every person in my guild except for me and one other dropped their skills and picked up biochem. And it was suggested that we do the same. Is that how it's supposed to work?

 

Also, all we will get is money from the orange gear with augments, just like you selling consumables. You will still need to get the quality mods to put into the orange gear. Where do you suppose that will come from?

[DeathDiciple]

I love them and I will love them for leveling but lets get real. The TOP END meds are blue not reusable anyway, and how exactly is 2hour last-through-death blue so much worse than reusable stim? how many do you need per raid, 2 if you're unlucky?

 

The only thing that is kinda out of whack are adrenals, and thats only coz it takes so freaking many resources for 15 seconds buff its silly. Adrenal mats req need to get nerfed, aside from that I could not care less if reusables get removed or not.

[HanzBlix]

I love them and I will love them for leveling but lets get real. The TOP END meds are blue not reusable anyway, and how exactly is 2hour last-through-death blue so much worse than reusable stim? how many do you need per raid, 2 if you're unlucky?

 

The only thing that is kinda out of whack are adrenals, and thats only coz it takes so freaking many resources for 15 seconds buff its silly. Adrenal mats req need to get nerfed, aside from that I could not care less if reusables get removed or not.

 

Well the adrenals are a huge advantage, and no one and I mean no one sells blue med pacs on my server, so they only way to get them would be to craft them yourself. I sell 20 ultimate med pacs (green) on my server for 120k with no problem. I've been tempted to try making the blue ones and selling them, but it would have to be for an insane amount with the mats involved.

[UncleJimbo]

Go ahead, because I never chased flavor of the month. I still have my armormech that I originally made when everyone said how much they suck. I did biochem on alt one to ensure that I could make CONSUMABLES for my toons, regardless with what they did with the profession. I didn't bank on OP reusables on my main that raids. I know it's going to make people sad that their crew skill will no longer be required end game, but get over it.

 

Oh I also have a 400 slicer which is L337, even though people complain about how hard it got nerfed, it's still awesome. People will whine about anything.

 

OP crew skill is OP period.

 

I did not chase fotm in any mmo I played so far, especially crafting.

I chose biochem because I am a heavy pot user in any game, but when the profession will eat money and provide little usage, well it make no sense to use it anymore.

Like I said before and in other posts, remove reusable or make them bind on use, I could not care less, but do not make their contribution so minimal that it does not make sense to have it.

[aypolo]

 

Even Biochemists should want this change, because with so many biochemists, the market for stims and medpacs is just not there.

 

The perks for a biochemist should be stronger stim/adrenals/medpacs for their own use only. Change the reusables to the Exotech (requiring 400 biochem to use), and drop their mats to only requiring one Radioactive Paste (4 is absurd).

 

 

You high?

You presume way too much. _and_ you contradict yourself.

So biochemists want a bigger market (which not all of them do, if it means that you loose reusables), so we should make adrenals for the biochemst's use only.

 

Read over what you said.

[Archiwizard]

This doesn't take a genious to figure out reuasables don't work every gamer who takes an active role in raiding and pvp etc has now got a permabuff and an influx of money created by all those people who don't have biochem buying stims from them.

 

If I play for say 6 hours a day (basically my free time) it would cost me on my server for the cheapest stims 60,000 - 90,000 credits perday in order to have an equal standing with biochemist. I understand why you would want to either give buffs to other crafting or make everyone get reusables but I think you are wrong, this defeats the purpose of crafting and MMO's in general.

 

You should not be being handed stuff you should have to work for it! Look at EVE as an example this is a huge MMO still subbed and growing all the time. Putting aside other issues with that game it got one thing right you want something you gotta go get it and no ones going to give you it for nothing everything from a booster to a spacecraft costs you in that game and when it's gone it's gone. 3rd person MMO's have a vast amount to learn from a sandbox game like this.

 

The reason games like this struggle and wither is because they cater to the lazy who hide behind excuses. The only reason WoW survives is because it's a fall back with history but it is as guilty as all the rest. I believe most people would welcome a more challenging game for all it's aspects not just combat although they could do with buffing nightmare to the point at which it wakes small children in the night crying.

 

This might appear to be a rant and it is but it angers me somewhat when I read some peoples narrow minded approach to solving problems, the kind of people who use cellotape to fix a severed limb. My feelings on Biochem are this, reusables have to go they should be replaced by some kind of secondary stim that can be injected to increase the longevity of the biochemists buff from 2 to 4 hours in addition they should add crittable stims which have advanced stats which in turn can also be buffed in length by a biochemists personal stim buffer. I reckon this would keep most biochemists happy and add a whole new layer to the game in fact why stop there have combinational stims different ingredient stims you can pruchase and inject yourself in a certain order to individualise the buff you get the possibilities are endless.

 

The overall learing point is this making something called consumables reusable is probably the most oximoronic thing I have ever seen and concidering it's not the first time this mistake has been made I have lost a degree of faith in this game and it's developers who need to start thinking outside the box and remembering that just because something seems complicated it's the learning that keeps people busy and interested we all enjoy experimenting and finding something individual how they want to play.

[Quinlynn]

To those complaining about losing reusables. Get over it.

 

I have a 400 biochem, and it's retarded. I make so much money off of it, it's absolutely insane (just selling consumables).

 

The fact that you get a reusable adrenal is OP, no other crew skiller could afford adrenals with the cost involved. That is a huge additional ability that no one else gets. The health packs are beyond awesome... still even after the nerf.

 

My other buddy who also made a 400 biochem also agrees with my sentiments on this. Overpowered crew skill is overpowered, even after nerfs.

 

It will still be more than useful as reusables get phased out.

 

Oh I almost forgot, you can also make BIS Implants for 2 slots on top of everything else.

 

You're really not smart.

 

Crafters are supposed to make credits selling consumables.

 

Reusable is not OP'd when it is not as good as the consumable blue prototypes. Something you would know if you were not speaking out of your leather star.

 

No other crew skill makes durable goods that have a crew skill requirement. If anything all crew skill requirements should be removed from the purple re-usable stims / heal packs.

 

Also, no one is going to buy high level implants from a Biochem when they are not as good as the Champ / BM ones.

 

Try again troll.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Quinlynn

[goulet]

at a certain point the reusable stim is worse then the single use ones, or even pvp stims for that matter. the 30 % health heal from pvp is more then the reusable on reasonably geared players, 3k range for the reusable, for the pvp if you're say dps and have 17k health thats a 5100 heal. over time as you release new schems from new content the reusable will gradually become less appealing then the single use ones.

 

the reusable self buff is better then the single use by a range of +20. hardly a tipping point.

 

the reusable combat buffs is the most beneficial in my opinion, simply by comparison to the single use ones. the cost to produce a single use item that only last 15 seconds is ridiculous, so much so that its hard to incentivize using it relative to its duration and cost to produce. this seems to be the biggest advantage in terms of biochem vs non biochem players. the question is how do you address it? i see two options

 

-option one: make the single use ones either cheaper to produce, or have multiple uses on them. something in the 10 use per item range seems reasonable, that half an hour worth of buffs (3 minute cd on use)

 

-option two: make the reusable combat buffs available to everyone. it's not gonna mess with the game economy or the professions ability to make money, you still have self buffs and stims to sell. Additionally it solves part of the max level issues with biochem in terms of reverse engineering items to epic (purple) quality. Right now theres no point to reverse engineering anything to epic (outside of implants) at max level unless you're going to use it for yourself (which at face values seems foolish as you have the rakata version to craft for yourself, if you made it for yourself it would seem to be only temporary until you can craft the rakata).

its hard to argue this would somehow overpower classes as 1: every person with biochem currently has them and uses them, and 2: everyone who isnt biochem has access to them, with the only qualification for use being spending money to get it.

[HanzBlix]

You're really not smart.

 

Crafters are supposed to make credits selling consumables.

 

Reusable is not OP'd when it is not as good as the consumable blue prototypes. Something you would know if you were not speaking out of your leather star.

 

No other crew skill makes durable goods that have a crew skill requirement. If anything all crew skill requirements should be removed from the purple re-usable stims / heal packs.

 

Also, no one is going to buy high level implants from a Biochem when they are not as good as the Champ / BM ones.

 

Try again troll.

 

Right, so you save money by being able to make your own consumables which are often better than what's available on the market due to supply of materials. At the same time you are able to make consumables to make money on the market. On top of this you can craft for the implant slot, which has really nice stats on it. I'm not trolling, I have 400 biochem a 400 armormech, and a 400 slicer/ 200 synth.

 

Making reusable adrenals primarily is what I have an issue with. It's a stupid advantage, it's like having another ability that no one else gets, whilst being able to craft BIS implants. If it wasn't OP, everyone wouldn't have dropped their current crew skills to snag it for end game.

 

I made an ALT my biochem on purpose, because I knew it would be nerfed. The reason, I am smart. The crew skill is basically a requirement for someone who wants to run at peak performance, even if you dont' use the reusables. YOu wouldn't be able to afford your addiction any other way. I'm happy being able to make CONSUMABLES for all my toons without having to rely on getting raked over the coals on the GTN. It would simply be too cost prohibitive to not have my own biochem.

 

Anyone who doesn't see this is really in a state of denial and is sad that their free ride is over somewhere down the line. Since the devs are phasing it out, apparently the DESIGNERS of the game tend to agree with my stand point. It's really moot the change is coming. Take another crew skill since biochem is going to suck so bad now (bet you won't).

[Sodian]

This will be interesting when the reusable are phased out. Edited March 15, 2012 by Sodian

[PeterSith]

With the upcoming changes to the crafts and biochem, I hope we will be able to craft some pvp specific consumables now that reusables will be phased out. Edited March 15, 2012 by PeterSith

[captainwayway]

I think they should keep the reusables, but use green bioanalysis mats for fuel. Ideally you would make this "fuel" from any tier of bioanalysis mats so that the last tier doesnt just become overpriced.

 

I personally think this is a creative idea that splits the difference between reusables with no ongoing cost, and the overpriced alternatives that currently exist.

 

I like this lots

[Vortech]

This will be interesting when the reusable are phased out.

 

Not really, more pathetic then anything.. They've nerfed biochem out of viability and now they're killing it. BW should have spent time correcting all the broken crew skills rather then killing off one of the few that made sense. Now biochem will be gutted and left broken for lord knows how long.. They won't adjust mat requirements accordingly and they won't balance everything as would be required.. They're just killing it, they got tired of the uninformed crying 24/7.

 

Seems to be BW's mo, nerf it into the ground, let somebody else figure it out.

[axelgrease]

Honestly this is how I look at it. To make an exotech stim it cost around 40-50k on my server now i raid for 8-12 hours minimum a week. In that time I would need at least 6 but because of the way we raid 4 days i'd need more liike 8 stims thats 200k. In the time I raid I'll use a medpack probably 100 times so say those cost 20k thats 2 MILLION there and if i use my adrenals like I should then thats another 2-3 times per attempt minimum so thats another mil or so. We figured If you raid for 12 hours a week thats around 4.5 MILLION credits i've gotta farm to buy the proper items. Now granted if we one shot every boss thats more like 500k a week thats 3 days of dailies going straight to biochem items. That makes being a biochem with reusables necessary not any other reason. I look at biochem as saving me 2.5 million a week unless i dont raid. for pvp having that rakata medpack every 90 seconds sometimes means the difference between winning and losing and having the 150ish between stat/power always on makes it worth it. I am one of those who are retired and i get between 12-16 hours a day so if i use a stim every time its up and it last for 2 hours thats 8 a day or 400k just from stims not to mention medpacks and adrenals. I'd be spending over a million a day on biochem stuff. probably closer to 2-3 mil. Honestly if I didnt have reusable items i'd probably just go find a different game. Now that said I feel the reusable should be able to be used by other characters and sold. If that happened there would be a huge market. and it would save money for other professions to make money. making those items usable by everyone means that every alt of every person would want reusable. Now granted once you had a medpack and a surgeons medpack of each rank you wouldnt need any more ever but you'd need stims/adrenals and likely a crit and a power of those or a absorb or tech depending on tank/healing ability. Honeslty the rakata items should have been implants and not stims/medpacks/adrenals and we should just be using the level 48 purples. Edited March 15, 2012 by axelgrease

[Skylancewalker]

I actually sell my re-usables quite often...people too lazy to get the re-engineered item themself. I disagree with the market. I would also like to point out that biochem would be pretty much pointless and not many would want it if reusables were taken out.

[elorei]

No.

 

You "grind" by showing up and going afk, you still get loot.

 

PVE requires you to actually kill stuff. PVE requires a grind. PVP is LITERALLY "you get loot for being there - win or lose"

 

yeah same thing >.>

 

You get a lot fo your dailies done by losing? Wow, thats pretty cool. Other than the "hey you completed a warzone have 3 kills" daily, you have to win to get rewarded. If you are that bad, why not just go open boxes on ilum, its faster than warzones.

[Spero-Mcgee]

You get a lot fo your dailies done by losing? Wow, thats pretty cool. Other than the "hey you completed a warzone have 3 kills" daily, you have to win to get rewarded. If you are that bad, why not just go open boxes on ilum, its faster than warzones.

 

It's actually more effective to que for the wzs while on Ilum, because every 3 armaments you get saves you from having to do a wz. You have to play 10 wzs each day to complete that daily, hopefully you can also win at least 3 times during those 10 wzs to also get your no quarter daily, doesn't always happen but hey you tried right?

If you do this for 5 days during a week, you'd also nicely get your weekly done.

At least now we have to possibility to gear up in a reasonable time frame, I was really sick and rired of purposefully ending up farming medals because else the losses would taste even more bitter due to the lack of valor and wz coms. And the wz coms are the first and foremost currency needed to gear up, before you even reach the BM rank to be able to open up the BM stuff.

[Fdzzaigl]

"Reusable" just shouldn't mean "Infinitely usable".

 

Make them have 5-10 uses and make them last through death (for stims) and be more powerful than regular ones.

 

Adrenals should be made in stacks of 5-10 as well, they're currently not worth buying for non-biochem (or they're worth it but just cost you your skin for 15 seconds of power).

 

Right now BioChem is still far more powerful than any other crafting profession, simply because of the infinite bonuses you get on stims, while others have to spend upwards of 20K for a single stim.

 

By comparison, I'm an armormech, and sell Dalarian smuggler items, which require both a Biometric Alloy and purple Perpetual Energy Cell (from raids / hardmodes) for 70k max.

 

I actually sell my re-usables quite often...people too lazy to get the re-engineered item themself. I disagree with the market. I would also like to point out that biochem would be pretty much pointless and not many would want it if reusables were taken out.

 

You can sell stims that don't require any exotic crafting materials for 20k a pop (on my server) while comparable blues from other professions aren't even being bought, and purples require significant effort.

 

You have it good, even without the dang reusables.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[pairadox]

Not really, more pathetic then anything.. They've nerfed biochem out of viability and now they're killing it. BW should have spent time correcting all the broken crew skills rather then killing off one of the few that made sense. Now biochem will be gutted and left broken for lord knows how long.. They won't adjust mat requirements accordingly and they won't balance everything as would be required.. They're just killing it, they got tired of the uninformed crying 24/7.

 

Seems to be BW's mo, nerf it into the ground, let somebody else figure it out.

 

Not true. As Biochem stims are substantially better than anything bought. They sell well, extremely well. Way better than anything my Cybertech, Artificer, Armormech, or Synthweaver can produce. Further, you seem to have simply looked into your crystal ball and determined that anything they do to biochem will equate to bad.

 

Since I have yet to see patch notes.

 

It might be premature.

 

Just a little.

[HellsKeeper]

I lol'd at this whole post....

 

biochem is fine....buff the rest...simple

[Verdakk]

Like the title says, i think it's time to end this. It clearly is overpowering because having a free heal, free adrenals and free stims is just too powerful.

 

Even Biochemists should want this change, because with so many biochemists, the market for stims and medpacs is just not there.

 

The perks for a biochemist should be stronger stim/adrenals/medpacs for their own use only. Change the reusables to the Exotech (requiring 400 biochem to use), and drop their mats to only requiring one Radioactive Paste (4 is absurd).

 

Adrenals are too expensive currently. A good start would be to cut their mats by half.

 

For ops schematics, make the Exotech have a 4 hour duration that anybody can use (and requiring 4 Radioactive Paste).

 

The other crafting skills aren't broken. Some require tweeks, but they ARE viable. It's just when people compare them to Biochem, they see it as useless. When people look up stims and see that 2 stims is the same price as a reusable, it's a no-brainer that stims are a ripoff or/and that biochem reusables is too fantastic to not have.

 

No. Biochem has been nerfed enough. Leave it be. 1.2 will see all these crafting changes and Biochem only got hated because it was OP at first, not anymore

[Verdakk]

Not true. As Biochem stims are substantially better than anything bought. They sell well, extremely well. Way better than anything my Cybertech, Artificer, Armormech, or Synthweaver can produce. Further, you seem to have simply looked into your crystal ball and determined that anything they do to biochem will equate to bad.

 

Since I have yet to see patch notes.

 

It might be premature.

 

Just a little.

 

The mats required hardly justify nerfing biochem anymore across the board. On top of that you have to be biochem to reap the rewards. In 1.2 all the other crafters are getting huge buffs. Leave biochem alone dammit.