How to fix the sorc, suggestions.

[Erasimus]

Bad idea.

 

Here is how to fix sage/sorc:

 

- The bubble no longer registers as "Healing" for WZ Badges.

- The bubble instead registers as "Protection" for WZ Badges.

 

That's all.

 

I don't have an issue with this, but you do realize that my Gunslinger Shield also registers as healing, right? The big difference is since I don't have an "active" heal I can't get the "medic" badge. I think it is funny to see people strip their armor then put it on once the match starts to heal themselves and get that extra badge. If they are going to fix something that would be my choice ;-)

Edited February 15, 2012 by Erasimus

[Zellata]

If you had the chance to change anything else then, from your sorc, what would that be?

 

If you would trade in the above what you said, you would just be a merc or commando, and we already have that class.

 

Well, people complain that our bubble is somehow OP (even though it only absorbs 1 good hit) and that we can run away (despite the fact that force speed is easily countered by root or stun). So, if we give that up, we'll need some some other means to stay alive, like heavy armor. Same reasoning for removing CC abilities - if we can't CC, we need to do more dps to balance it out. Otherwise we'll end up with class that has no defense, no CC, and no burst - in other words, totally useless.

[Tumri]

Bad idea.

 

Here is how to fix sage/sorc:

 

- The bubble no longer registers as "Healing" for WZ Badges.

- The bubble instead registers as "Protection" for WZ Badges.

 

That's all.

 

That's a buff to their medal gains. You've posted this about 5 times in different threads.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Tumri

[Waagabond]

I don't feel that these changes are necessary and I play both a Gunslinger (Lvl 50) and a Sorcerer (Lvl 48)

 

One on One I can usually take down a Sorcerer on my Gunslinger (DF). If they are a pure healer it is much harder, but then that applies to pretty much any pure healer.

 

On my Sorcerer if I go toe to toe with almost any DPS class I lose. The only thing that keeps me alive are those things you want to nerf. Without the bubble and the CCs and the occasional speed boost I would stand very little chance against the other DPS classes almost all of whom have more burst DPS.

 

On my Gunslinger (Dirty Fighting) I have enough interupts (Kick, Flashbang, Cast interupt -can't remember the name ;-) That from full health I can usually take down a Sorcerer. If they run and I get a leg shot off it is often game over.

 

On my Sorcerer getting heals off while being pummeled by virtually any class is very difficult. I usually have to run and hide to do any meaningful healing and that only works if they don't CC me or run me down. Force speed is fine, but unless there is someplace to hide it is a minor advantage. The biggest advantage of Force Speed is situational like Hutball and other classes have similar situational advantages like force leap, the harpoon, etc.

 

The bubble lasts for a couple of hits. Without it a Sorcerer/Sage would die very quickly indeed.

 

I don't see that Sorcerers/Sages are that far out of line. Yes you see a lot of them and have since day one, they are a popular class. I mean who dosen't want to shoot lighting out of their fingertips or throw dirt in an opponents face But in need of a nerf? I just don't see it at the moment. The changes the OP is suggesting would, in my opinion, would totally cripple the class for PvP.

 

(P.S. I don't do much PvE and none on my Sorcerer except quests. I'd be very much surprised if there were any hybrid Sorcerers doing OPs.)

 

You fail to see the problem here mate.

 

First the sorcs survive without the bubble just fine if they learn to use their other mechanics they have at their disposal instead of relying on a 3 button combination of bubble, dps, run.

 

The point is that Im not talking 1vs1, im talking team vs team.

 

The bubble can be cast on anyone, instantly, 17 seconds cd with talents.

They have a huge arsenal of cc and an ondemand ranged dps snare, coupled with an aoe knockback with a snare, and a blind on bubble burst, coupled with a lightning cage mez ending in a 2 sec stun.

 

The healing from the base line sorc bubble heals for as much as a 31 point talent in the merc and commando tree.

 

But above all, im not saying that sorcs should not have bubbles.

Im just saying that it should be exclusive to healing specd sorcs. Thats all.

Mainly due to how powerful it is, and it is invading on the turf of commandos and medics.

 

Sages and sorcs already have best aoe heal in the game, why do they also need the most powerful single target heal in the game, as baseline, ontop of this?

 

However, in order to not affect PVE too much, where sages are needed as the strongest healing class in the game, my suggestion hits that bubbles should be tools for healing sorcs.

 

 

A DPS sorc need to learn to kite, use his knockback and cc better.

At the moment they rely on 2 things: They aoe knockback, bubble themself and start to cast a channeled lightning snare on you. Add a dot or two to the mix and thats the skills a sorc uses to kill his opponents.

And frankly, a player that only played mario card and donkey kong in their gaming career could perform these acts without much problem.

 

Remove the bubble and you need to all of a sudden not just rely on the bubble and snare to save you, but you need to utlize your mez and sprint in an offensive manner, not just to escape a possible loosing fight, which is the case today.

 

They already have self heals, thats enough.

 

Learn to lightning cage and heal, as an example.

 

The class will be nerfed, thats 100% sure, or this game will loose an incredibly amount of subscriptions.

 

I am not calling for a nerf like what they did to the operative or scoundrel, where they made them obsolete in PVE, and their stealth burst to hit for as much as a base attack of some other melee classes.

Im just calling for a diversity among the specializatiosn the sorcs need to choose if they want to be effective.

 

You want to be DPS? Do as all other DPS classes that play in this game.

Learn to play with healers and ask a tank to guard you.

 

And beside that...ask your sorc healer to toss you a bubble, and you are just as good as you are now. No difference.

[Waagabond]

Bad idea.

 

Here is how to fix sage/sorc:

 

- The bubble no longer registers as "Healing" for WZ Badges.

- The bubble instead registers as "Protection" for WZ Badges.

 

That's all.

 

Hehe, well the end result would be exactly the same.

 

Thats not a change in balance, its just a change in valor earned, and even then, it makes no change.

As a matter of fact you would earn more medals this way. But I see what you are trying to to here, you are trying to get an even further buff. Good try, but bad idea.

[shaidarlol]

And before you say anything about bubbles.

 

A full champion geared sage or sorc, have their bubble "heal" for roughly 3.3-3.5k damage. This has been tested and proved. Add battlemaster gear and remod some and you can push the bubble to 4k.

 

i am almost a fully bm geared sorc, i can assure you my bubble only absorbs about 3.5k

i wish it goes upto 4k

 

To be respectful of other people, which I know all you sorcs and sages are.

Please consider that commando medics and merc healers have a 31 point talent in the healing tree, that have a 21 second cooldown and heal for LESS then the bubble that is baseline among sorcs and sages.

 

A talented bubble at this moment have 17 seconds cooldown and lasts for 30 seconds.

Thats 4 seconds shorter then a 31 point healing talent from our STRONGEST SINGLE target healers in the game, mercs and commandos.

Even without the talent for cd reduction you still come 1 second shorter, and again, stronger then the expert, or so called expert, in single target healing.

 

i'll agree that this sounds logical, but consider this, 2 sorcerers healers vs 2 merc healers,

if a 1 sorcerer puts a bubble on the person to be healed the 2nd sorcerer cannot, as where both merc healers can still use their 31 point talent at the same time

[Waagabond]

Well, people complain that our bubble is somehow OP (even though it only absorbs 1 good hit) and that we can run away (despite the fact that force speed is easily countered by root or stun). So, if we give that up, we'll need some some other means to stay alive, like heavy armor. Same reasoning for removing CC abilities - if we can't CC, we need to do more dps to balance it out. Otherwise we'll end up with class that has no defense, no CC, and no burst - in other words, totally useless.

 

Dude: The bubble have been confirmed to absorb around 3.3k damage in champion gear.

 

If thats "one good hit" for you then...

 

Its as much as a 31 point healing talent for commandos and mercs.

Get a grip.

[Waagabond]

i am almost a fully bm geared sorc, i can assure you my bubble only absorbs about 3.5k

i wish it goes upto 4k

 

 

 

i'll agree that this sounds logical, but consider this, 2 sorcerers healers vs 2 merc healers,

if a 1 sorcerer puts a bubble on the person to be healed the 2nd sorcerer cannot, as where both merc healers can still use their 31 point talent at the same time

 

Not true, its just the same.

The bubble is even better as it keeps absorbing until its out.

 

Or is there a debuff involved that I honestly was not aware of in the mechanic? like for disc priests. I never thought of this to be honest.

 

But if there is no debuff, it would make no change.

 

But please consider that you are still comparing a 31 point tier 7 talent for a single target healer to a tier 5 talent of an aoe healer, as per my suggestions. This alone makes it fair.

[Erasimus]

You fail to see the problem here mate.

 

First the sorcs survive without the bubble just fine if they learn to use their other mechanics they have at their disposal instead of relying on a 3 button combination of bubble, dps, run.

 

The point is that Im not talking 1vs1, im talking team vs team.

 

The bubble can be cast on anyone, instantly, 17 seconds cd with talents.

They have a huge arsenal of cc and an ondemand ranged dps snare, coupled with an aoe knockback with a snare, and a blind on bubble burst, coupled with a lightning cage mez ending in a 2 sec stun.

 

The healing from the base line sorc bubble heals for as much as a 31 point talent in the merc and commando tree.

 

But above all, im not saying that sorcs should not have bubbles.

Im just saying that it should be exclusive to healing specd sorcs. Thats all.

Mainly due to how powerful it is, and it is invading on the turf of commandos and medics.

 

Sages and sorcs already have best aoe heal in the game, why do they also need the most powerful single target heal in the game, as baseline, ontop of this?

 

However, in order to not affect PVE too much, where sages are needed as the strongest healing class in the game, my suggestion hits that bubbles should be tools for healing sorcs.

 

 

A DPS sorc need to learn to kite, use his knockback and cc better.

At the moment they rely on 2 things: They aoe knockback, bubble themself and start to cast a channeled lightning snare on you. Add a dot or two to the mix and thats the skills a sorc uses to kill his opponents.

And frankly, a player that only played mario card and donkey kong in their gaming career could perform these acts without much problem.

 

Remove the bubble and you need to all of a sudden not just rely on the bubble and snare to save you, but you need to utlize your mez and sprint in an offensive manner, not just to escape a possible loosing fight, which is the case today.

 

They already have self heals, thats enough.

 

Learn to lightning cage and heal, as an example.

 

The class will be nerfed, thats 100% sure, or this game will loose an incredibly amount of subscriptions.

 

I am not calling for a nerf like what they did to the operative or scoundrel, where they made them obsolete in PVE, and their stealth burst to hit for as much as a base attack of some other melee classes.

Im just calling for a diversity among the specializatiosn the sorcs need to choose if they want to be effective.

 

You want to be DPS? Do as all other DPS classes that play in this game.

Learn to play with healers and ask a tank to guard you.

 

And beside that...ask your sorc healer to toss you a bubble, and you are just as good as you are now. No difference.

 

Hmm, so every DPs has a pocket healer following them around and all classes that have a self heal (you do realize that Socerers/Sages are not the only ones with self heals/shields right?) Need to have their shields and self heals removed unless they are specc'd fully into a heling spec.

 

I just don't agree with your premise. To play well on both my Gunslinger and my Sorcerer I have to use all their abilities. Yes, if I'm up against really bad players I can use just a few, but then that could apply to pretty much every class.

 

If they want to boost a Sorcerers/Sages DPS to the point where they have an even chance against other DPS classes that would be fine, but that is not currently the case. A Sorcerer/Sage is not a WoW mage, they don't have the DPS potential. For that matter even in WoW you could spec frost and give up some DPS to get more escapes/snares etc. Which is basically what a hybrid Sorcerer/Sage has done.

 

Dedicated healers will always still make a difference in PvP and of course you must have them in most OPs.

 

Bottom line is I just don't agree with you and my main is my lvl 50 Gunslinger.

 

P.S. and why is it that everyone feels that if "their suggestions" based on "their opinion" isn't heeded everyone is going to quit?? I haven't heard anyone in my Republic guild complaining about sorcerers nor have I heard anyone in my Empire guild complaining about Sages. You would think if they are that OP there would not only be complaints but all the FOTM folks (ex operatives for example) would be rerolling one or the other.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Erasimus

[shaidarlol]

Not true, its just the same.

The bubble is even better as it keeps absorbing until its out.

 

Or is there a debuff involved that I honestly was not aware of in the mechanic? like for disc priests. I never thought of this to be honest.

 

But if there is no debuff, it would make no change.

 

But please consider that you are still comparing a 31 point tier 7 talent for a single target healer to a tier 5 talent of an aoe healer, as per my suggestions. This alone makes it fair.

 

yes the bubble works exactly like a priest's shield, when you put a shield on someone, it puts a 20s debuff on that person, so he cannot be shielded again by anyone else until that debuff runs out.

[XcSDeadDeer]

Putting a 1.5-2 second cast time on their Stasis shield. Cant tell you how many times my powertech hasnt been able to kill them because as a shield tech tank, my dps severly lacks. (Mainly because Bioware made it so that our shoulder slam isn't usable against enemy players?!?). All a sorc has to do is cast stasis shield, then start healing themselves. Dont have enough interrupts between their instant cast and their Channels to damage them while they're in their bubble.

[Valeena]

Sorry, but when I see DPS hitting me for 3.5k-4.5k on a regular basis (against 500+ expertise), I don't see how one bubble can be that big of a deal to some people. I'm a healer though, I can't comment on DPSing. I easily outheal most Sorcs because of their sustained damage and because I can cleanse most dots. It's the burst classes I have issues with. I suppose if I was a melee, I'd get irritated at the hybrid specs. Personally, I think the cool talents need to be moved up the tree or make our end talents worth specing for. I mean, I assume most of this QQ is because of hybrid specs.

 

PS: Putting a cast time on our shield? Really? You realize we have a cast time on EVERYTHING? Worst. Idea. Ever.

 

On a side note, Sorc/Sages remind me of the Shadow Priests of Bioware. There is a debuff on our Shield, we can not stack it or keep recasting it. It is not efficient to have more than 1 Sorc healer in a Warzone, I would rather a strong single target healer instead (like a Merc).

[_Morholt_]

How to fix sorcs:

 

Take away their force speed so they get trained like the rest of anyone.

 

Hint: this also fixes huttball matches.

 

Right now, you target an uber sissy sorc, right away they knock you back and then run away like a little girl.

[XcSDeadDeer]

PS: Putting a cast time on our shield? Really? You realize we have a cast time on EVERYTHING? Worst. Idea. Ever.

 

FONT]

 

As does the Operative healer, who has 2 skills that are broke, and no "ohelp, save my ***" shield

[Valeena]

As does the Operative healer, who has 2 skills that are broke, and no "ohelp, save my ***" shield

 

Don't you have a vanish? I'm still leveling my Scoundrel (since I want all 3 healing classes, at the moment I have a 50 Merc and a 50 Sage). I heard a rumor that Operatives/Scoundrels are the most gimped in terms of healers. If anything, they need a buff if that rings true.

[Zaodon]

That's a buff to their medal gains.

 

No its not, its a nerf. 0 or 1 healing badge. 0 or 1 protection badge.

 

Instead of 2-3 healing badges.

 

To offset this nerf, we could up all their DPS by 5% to compensate.

[stephenjohnp]

The Sorcerer is operating as intended, nothing to nerf.

[BlanksonBlank]

I play a sorc( 7/31/3 lightning valor rank 70, 8/14 slots BM and the rest champion) and i would much rather lose the potency of my casted heals than lose my bubble.

 

DPS sorc are far to versitle, all the utility is needed (especially with the long cast times of the lightning tree), the potency of self heals is not. Prior to the surge nerf i had no problem getting 5k dark infusion crits on my self and wtih as much damage as i do, i shouldn't be able to heal my self for that much with 1 spell.

 

I say reduce the baseline healing and increase the healing talents in corruption so that Sorc healers are unphased by the reduction.

 

The bubble is needed, if we didnt have it we could get crushed by melee classes that know how to counter our utility.

Edited February 15, 2012 by BlanksonBlank

[Onaazz]

Let me start saying I'm a valor rank 64 sorc in full bm gear except the off hand. I have 16.2k hp unbuffed, bumps up to 17k with 5% endurance, not even gonna tell you what the armor mitigation for a light armor user is since its pathetic (Mercs run around with 19k hp with Endurance buff and heavy armor, in not full BM gear, fact, I've seen it multiple times.). I am purely heal specced most of the time, but I've played both the tri-spec and the 21/20 extensively, on the other hand I doubt you played a sorc and I doubt you even know how the class works except for when you whine to your friends on Team Speak about how your getting ***** by them. And just FYI there is more than one sorcerer spec.

 

On the ''imba omg bubble subject'', if they were to implement your absurd idea it would destroy the sorcerer dps class in pvp, that's why it's never gonna be implemented, you don't know how a sorc works, you don't play a sorc and you have very little say in what the class needs and what it lacks untill you play one. As a healing specced sorc I can survive with one dps on me indefinetley, as a 21/20 dps specced I cannot so I don't know what your talking about with your ''How fun is it to want to play a full time healer and feel that there is no point for him to go full healer?'', learn to interrupt and to focus target. On the other hand I agree that the tri-spec might have a little too much healing utility, pushing 300/350k dmg and 150/200k healing in a good, long WZ.

 

About the DPS trees, as other sorcs/sages have mentioned, if the top tier talents wouldn't suck so much you would see more players with top tier talents. Ever thought about that?

 

I would like for you to roll a sorc, and never use Static Barrier and see what happens, enjoy being facerolled by marauders, snipers, power techs, mercs, commandos, juggernaughts and whatnot(classes chosen were random btw, I'd include every dps class). In the back of my head I'm still thinking your a troll that stole 5 minutes of my time.

 

And no, thank you, I don't really care about being special.

 

 

 

EDIT: No one is gonna quit because of the sorc bubble, I'd rather quit over the fact that there is nothing to do a part from 2 dailies.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Onaazz

[Calista_ZK]

How to fix sorcs:

 

Take away their force speed so they get trained like the rest of anyone.

 

Hint: this also fixes huttball matches.

 

Right now, you target an uber sissy sorc, right away they knock you back and then run away like a little girl.

 

Hint: don't stand where you can be knocked back or the smarter sorc wins

[jellosandwich]

Must be boring to have 1 spec out of 3 talent trees and if you dont spec that way you are "gimped".

 

Aha, good to hear that I've been gimped this whole time and just didn't realize it. Thanks pal!

[JaddynnStarr]

heres why this dont work...

 

we have light armor... nothing says tasty like a full spec player staring at the slimjim infront of him... the bubble is limited on how much damage it can absorb before popping... which at the time of this post is about 1 solid hit from said player. for the next 16.7 seconds its pure carnage on a sorcerer from that jugger while the sorcerer sits there stunned from whatever CC has just been landed on him. add that to the fact that thers a fair amount of classes that can pull or knock you down as you try to force run away like the ***** you are, so count KITING out of the picture completely. also add into the mix that in order for a sorcerer to use any heavy hitting attacks, it requires them to STAND STILL WHILE FACING THE ENEMY for 3-5 seconds, makes kiting or fleeing even less attractive and futile

 

in essence, we are a support role... when we are grouped with other players we shine... when not... were the weakest fodder on the planet against anyone worth their salt.

 

let the flames begin....

[Axethales]

Moving bubble to the top tier in healing would solve A LOT of griping.

 

Hell, I wanted to make a post to just say this point.

 

There is absolutely no reason a sorc/sage specc'd as DPS needs this.

 

Melee SUCKS in this game, and sorcs/sages know it. They go toe to toe against ALL classes and just cast either heal or dmg spells and hope to burst them down.

 

First game I've ever seen where the Cannon wasn't made of glass, the sorc/sage shield is actually better than absorb/shield/ abilities AND bubble on a tank and that is just pathetic.

[Onaazz]

Moving bubble to the top tier in healing would solve A LOT of griping.

 

Hell, I wanted to make a post to just say this point.

 

There is absolutely no reason a sorc/sage specc'd as DPS needs this.

 

Melee SUCKS in this game, and sorcs/sages know it. They go toe to toe against ALL classes and just cast either heal or dmg spells and hope to burst them down.

 

First game I've ever seen where the Cannon wasn't made of glass, the sorc/sage shield is actually better than absorb/shield/ abilities AND bubble on a tank and that is just pathetic.

 

 

6k crits

[JaddynnStarr]

Moving bubble to the top tier in healing would solve A LOT of griping.

 

Hell, I wanted to make a post to just say this point.

 

There is absolutely no reason a sorc/sage specc'd as DPS needs this.

 

Melee SUCKS in this game, and sorcs/sages know it. They go toe to toe against ALL classes and just cast either heal or dmg spells and hope to burst them down.

 

First game I've ever seen where the Cannon wasn't made of glass, the sorc/sage shield is actually better than absorb/shield/ abilities AND bubble on a tank and that is just pathetic.

 

this scenario only happens when a full geared spec sorc encounters a new lvl 50...

 

as for not needing the bubble, your nuckin futs man... roll u a src and play to lvl 30 without using a bubble in a DPS load out and then come talk to us... as far as running and healing, our best heal forces us to sit still for 5 seconds to cast it... *** u kiddin me?!?!?!