Ask Elrathion

[darthnica]

hey elrathion! ive been reeding this thread and it has helped me alot to improve my pvp ! thank you for sharing the insight!!

 

I currently play full balance spec. After patch 1.2, we are getting a nerf to the critical chance of tk throw, but are getting a buff to project, weaken mind and mind crush. are the three points of penetrating lights going to be necesary to cover up the loss of crit from tk throw in your opinion? if thats the case what build would you recommend to use those 3 points?. also with the buff to mind crush do you think the 3 points of clamoring force would be worth to put on? it already hits really hard, and now the dot that follows it will benefit from the the POM proc.

 

another question I had is regarding project. ive spoken to many balance sages who leave out the 3 points of upheavel and dont use project because of how it costs too much force and it isnt even instant because of the animation delay , but with the damage buff, even if its minor, maybe its worth it, what do you think?

 

thanks in advance!

[Plowmore]

Hey, thanks for getting back to me quickly and in such detail. I was going to use quotes but if I quoted all you said it'd be this huge wall of text and nobody wants that.

 

*Note: lets be honest, I write wordily, this is going to be a huge wall of text.

 

I read over your feedback, and as I was sick today, I spend most of my time (and credits) trying out the modified specs. Figured I'd post my findings and maybe compare notes.

 

2/21/18

Dropping 1 point in effusion and blockout for tk-wave and tidal force really made the difference in damage. Not just damage numbers, but more importantly burst damage for bringing down a key enemy (healer/ball carrier during force stun) quickly.

I also tried it without containment. While solo queuing it was fine, but when on vent with my 4-6man team (that's about all we can reliably get into a wz right now) the ability to completely remove an enemy from the relevant portion of a fight was huge whether it was capping in civil war, removing a healer in huttball, or keeping a tank from taunting in voidstar and pushing their healer back out of guard range (this instance was premade vs premade). Being able to put out that much control with a marauder on me has sold me on instant lift for this spec.

 

8/33/0 -edited from 8/31/2

I really like your additions/changes to this spec. For some reason I've been wed to Will of the Jedi even though it's not as necessary with battlemaster gear as say, back when I had centurion stuff. While it's a nice boost, changing it to psychic projection has been really clutch in the overall speed of my gameplay, giving me another faster tool to react or assault with.

My big question on this one is Telekinetic Defense. I know on paper a premade should not need the extra absorb from it, but I find in practice that there are times when the healers are occupied and I need to fend for myself. Also I tend to use Kinetic Collapse proactively by manually clicking it off to pop the aoe mez when it's most advantageous. I found that without the points in TK Defense I'd sometimes end up blowing my shield due to damage instead of popping it (yes when I'm getting focused it pops on it's own, but usually when it's a single dps on me I can choose when to pop it). I was thinking with two in effusion, I could probably get away with just one in Inner Strength. I haven't gotten to test it as much as I'd like but the little I've done I've liked quite a bit.

 

2/23/16

 

I was having issues with this spec until I finished making my alacrity rakata adrenal and bought the alacrity relic. You're right, they're INSANELY GOOD as a defensive cooldown. I still felt not having Foresight (from the 8/33/0 spec), when I had more than one person on me or couldn't avoid being hit. At first I was going to give a negative review about this spec but the more I played it with my adrenal/relic as defensive instead of offensive, the more I began to like it.

 

Random Stuff: Sentinels/Mauraders are being buffed. Currently I find that a well played marauder/sentinel is the most problematic for me. Most of their damage comes from burn/bleed. I'm considering putting 2 points into Mind Ward if I'm going that far into Balance. I've been dueling the best sentinels on my server recently and they all agree that the majority of their damage is dot based. A surprising amount of damage from other classes seems to be dot based too, and while I can purge the force effects, being able to ignore them for a few GCDs might be really nice. If you have tested builds with Mind Ward I'd love to hear what your experience with it has been, and I plan to try it out soon.

[KantaUO]

Someone please explain the double dip? What are people referring to? I know that seer tree can double cast 1.5 deliverance, but is there also some sort of tk double?

[Elrathion]

Someone please explain the double dip? What are people referring to? I know that seer tree can double cast 1.5 deliverance, but is there also some sort of tk double?

 

Correct. You can get 2 1.4s cast tele throws off -.- It's best not too mention this too much, CSS it's about the only saving grace of this patch that this hasn't been fixed

[Elrathion]

hey elrathion! ive been reeding this thread and it has helped me alot to improve my pvp ! thank you for sharing the insight!!

 

I currently play full balance spec. After patch 1.2, we are getting a nerf to the critical chance of tk throw, but are getting a buff to project, weaken mind and mind crush. are the three points of penetrating lights going to be necesary to cover up the loss of crit from tk throw in your opinion? if thats the case what build would you recommend to use those 3 points?. also with the buff to mind crush do you think the 3 points of clamoring force would be worth to put on? it already hits really hard, and now the dot that follows it will benefit from the the POM proc.

 

another question I had is regarding project. ive spoken to many balance sages who leave out the 3 points of upheavel and dont use project because of how it costs too much force and it isnt even instant because of the animation delay , but with the damage buff, even if its minor, maybe its worth it, what do you think?

 

thanks in advance!

 

I always use project, in any spec. It has great damage, and sure it`s a bit force costy, but it`s our strongest instant dps spell we have. That it`s damage is being buff I personally have a love - hate relationship with, because I know it`s gonna get mirrored for assassins too, who allready deal way more damage with their version -.-

 

About the 3 points into more damage on our weaken mind... Unfortunately, I think that getting the force reduction talents are really essential, so the only thing you could trade-off with is dropping 1 p in crit and 2 points in shield or 1p in crit and 2 in heal -0.5s reduction.

 

And what you`re gaining is a bit extra damage on your 15s cd spell. I`m not sure that`s the best of tradeoffs.

[Elrathion]

Hey. glad you like the changes. I've currently been testing w 2/2 block out and shield with dropping 2 points inner like u suggested and it does seem feasible. I always run into force issues w this spec, so I'm still weighing my options.

 

I really love block out, but lately I've been seeing SO many melee classes, and SO many abilities which can't be interrupt (and it just gets worse in 1.2), that I'm starting to wonder if this ability is only going to be intended vs a sorcerer and BH soon. I'm reserving judgement till I see the actual meta in my rated wzs and the benefit over the extra force vs the extra lockout.

 

In regards to the dot damage reduction, It's true that 15 percent is an awfull lot. The problem is the balance tree setup. I always had it, until heal on dot crits became sweeter. Now I guess one would have to drop 2 points in upheaval, which I find a considerable damage burst loss for pvp. I'd have to play around. Let me know your results

[Elrathion]

Greetings Elrathion. I'm an avid reader of this thread. Your advice has improved my game significantly. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

 

I am currently full balance with 8 points in the sage tree. (reduced push back on heals)

 

Sentinels & Marauders are giving me a real tough time. They always seem to have a leap available when I try kiting. If it is not too much trouble, I was wondering if you could give us a breakdown of say the first 30 seconds of battle in a "He does that, I do this" type of scenario? Let's assume he starts the fight with his 10m Zealot Leap...

 

Cheers!

 

Hey Nothingworks.

 

I'm happy you enjoy reading my posts.

 

My suggestion would be to get yourself some alacrity adrenal and relic first. You'd open up with FiB, root, weaken, telek throw into crush, root again, benevolence plus force slow straight.Pop relics, stun. Pop force potency and two big heals. If he breaks, you pop three. After repeat cycle, only dot and heal a lot as he's gonna burn all he has now. IF you see the chance to not dps him for 6s on his cd, it's an auto gg.

 

Also, 15 percent dot reduction helps a lot vs them.

 

This is not an exact written in stone thing. The gist is, once he's dotted, you cast small interval heals, and use force potency for a full recovery heal cycle by optimally using your cc. Two full hp bars plus not getting too greedy equals win vs most of them.

[dougan]

sorry if this has been asked or if this is the wrong place for this question, but do the "on damage" effects on end-game PVE relics proc off of DOTS?

 

thanks.

 

For example, THIS relic which will becoming out with 1.2

[Elrathion]

sorry if this has been asked or if this is the wrong place for this question, but do the "on damage" effects on end-game PVE relics proc off of DOTS?

 

thanks.

 

For example, THIS relic which will becoming out with 1.2

 

Yes they do. And yes this relic is beter then the power relic for pve sustained damage.

[dougan]

Yes they do. And yes this relic is beter then the power relic for pve sustained damage.

 

Cool, thank you.

[NothingWorks]

My suggestion would be to get yourself some alacrity adrenal and relic first. You'd open up with FiB, root, weaken, telek throw into crush, root again, benevolence plus force slow straight.Pop relics, stun. Pop force potency and two big heals. If he breaks, you pop three. After repeat cycle, only dot and heal a lot as he's gonna burn all he has now. IF you see the chance to not dps him for 6s on his cd, it's an auto gg.

 

Also, 15 percent dot reduction helps a lot vs them.

 

This is not an exact written in stone thing. The gist is, once he's dotted, you cast small interval heals, and use force potency for a full recovery heal cycle by optimally using your cc. Two full hp bars plus not getting too greedy equals win vs most of them.

 

Thank you for the advice Elrathion, I can see that I've been approaching this 1v1 match up all wrong. I'm going to try the Alacrity and Force Potency on Healing you suggest (as well as all your other suggestions of course)

 

If I may get a bit more clarification on some points:

 

During all that was suggested above (Fib, root, weaken, TK, etc) ... should I be trying to accomplish this while staying out of his melee range(kiting)? Does force speed play an important role in this match up at all?

 

Above you say " Pop force potency and two big heals. If he breaks, you pop three."

I think I'm having a slow day today, I don't understand what you meant by "pop three" ?

If he doesn't break stun, I would pop three heals. Is that what you were referring to?

 

2 Questions about Sent/Mara:

 

Are we able to cleanse ourselves of all their dots? If so, do you suggest we remove them ASAP.

 

You and others have mentioned this 6s window were we shouldn't damage them. Can I get some details on how this works?

 

 

Once again thank you for all your help. Cheers.

[Elrathion]

Thank you for the advice Elrathion, I can see that I've been approaching this 1v1 match up all wrong. I'm going to try the Alacrity and Force Potency on Healing you suggest (as well as all your other suggestions of course)

 

If I may get a bit more clarification on some points:

 

During all that was suggested above (Fib, root, weaken, TK, etc) ... should I be trying to accomplish this while staying out of his melee range(kiting)? Does force speed play an important role in this match up at all?

 

Above you say " Pop force potency and two big heals. If he breaks, you pop three."

I think I'm having a slow day today, I don't understand what you meant by "pop three" ?

If he doesn't break stun, I would pop three heals. Is that what you were referring to?

 

2 Questions about Sent/Mara:

 

Are we able to cleanse ourselves of all their dots? If so, do you suggest we remove them ASAP.

 

You and others have mentioned this 6s window were we shouldn't damage them. Can I get some details on how this works?

 

 

Once again thank you for all your help. Cheers.

 

You're most welcome.

 

a) Kiting is an obvious yes. Standing still vs a marauder unless you have a good investment in healing talents is an auto loss. Force Speed plays a big role. You wanna make sure you never blow it uselessly. I use force speed basically each cd after I applied slow and after he wasted his leap to create distance. Speeding without him having his leap of cd is a waste of ability.

 

b) If you stun with alacrity you can fit 2 big heals in there. Should he break, provided his resolve bar isnt full, you can force wake OR lift, which gives enough time for three big heals.

 

c) cleansing dots of mara can only be done with investing into the seer tree. This allows us to remove a psychical dot too.

 

Btw if you guys like this thread, report it for sticky -.-

Edited April 4, 2012 by Elrathion

[Elrathion]

I've been trying the balance talent -15 percent dot damage, and it does wonders in PvP, with all those psychical dots becomming more and more popular -.- I suggest everyone gives it a go to see how it affects them

[Ghost_Spectre]

What the title says..

 

People pm me alot for questions on how to play different specs, how to beat classes in duels, etc... So I decided to start a thread where people can post their questions.

 

Ask away!

 

Greets Elrathion, thank you for this thread.

 

I cut my teeth playing CoH, so I am very familiar with using enhancements to increase abilities. However, TOR is radically different in its approach. I am still trying to master PvE and using the tree before I venture into any PvP setting.

 

Currently, I am running a Sage and a Shadow, the former I team with and the later, I solo. My Shadow (24) I would like advice on how to use the tree to increase survivability, increase my DPS, and make my infiltration more effective. Can you advise me on this?

 

Likewise, my Sage (21) I want to ensure my healing can handle the damage I am seeing now as my levels increase. Therefore, I want to focus on that as well as my TK powers, and in some fashion, enhance my survivability. Can you advise me on this too?

 

Now, as a new player to this game, I am still trying to figure out the use of the enhancements such as armor, mods, and enhancements. Now, I know that WP is my focus, so using the above with high WP number mods is critical. However, in reading the information about "Crits/power," is somewhat confusing. I know WP directly effects Force, Endurance, hit points. Is it important for me to have WP/End for all three slots? Should I focus on adding in Crit/Power for my Shadow in one slot or a combo Enhancements that is WP/End/Power or whatever if available? Likewise, should I do the same for my Sage?

 

From the information and any examples you can give, I will be able to learn from those so I can properly adjust my other characters. Thanks.

[Elrathion]

Greets Elrathion, thank you for this thread.

 

I cut my teeth playing CoH, so I am very familiar with using enhancements to increase abilities. However, TOR is radically different in its approach. I am still trying to master PvE and using the tree before I venture into any PvP setting.

 

Currently, I am running a Sage and a Shadow, the former I team with and the later, I solo. My Shadow (24) I would like advice on how to use the tree to increase survivability, increase my DPS, and make my infiltration more effective. Can you advise me on this?

 

Likewise, my Sage (21) I want to ensure my healing can handle the damage I am seeing now as my levels increase. Therefore, I want to focus on that as well as my TK powers, and in some fashion, enhance my survivability. Can you advise me on this too?

 

Now, as a new player to this game, I am still trying to figure out the use of the enhancements such as armor, mods, and enhancements. Now, I know that WP is my focus, so using the above with high WP number mods is critical. However, in reading the information about "Crits/power," is somewhat confusing. I know WP directly effects Force, Endurance, hit points. Is it important for me to have WP/End for all three slots? Should I focus on adding in Crit/Power for my Shadow in one slot or a combo Enhancements that is WP/End/Power or whatever if available? Likewise, should I do the same for my Sage?

 

From the information and any examples you can give, I will be able to learn from those so I can properly adjust my other characters. Thanks.

 

Most of what I write here is mainly directed to PVP and lvl 50's. I encourage you to spend not too much time at forums at your level, but to discover your class the fullest yourself, and then pair those findings with what you find here to become beter.

 

The Crit/Power references to enhancements, not mods. The problem comes with the DR rates of Surge. Usually one wants to stack high surge. However due to its strong DR rate, you cannot have too much of it. Therefore you go to either alacrity/power; crit/alacrity. Power/Crit enhancements would be the best, but they don't exist yet .-

 

In regards to your survivability: I personally started out leveling as seer, then swapped to balance. Reason being is that it's insanely easy to just dot and kite. pve monsters are just so dumb, so you can do whatever -.- Once you pick up Cedrax, it's basically the easiest thing ever. Also the removal of the cd of telek throw helps alot.

 

For shadow, I havent played my shadow char too much, but if you want easymode, id go kenetics. It's really easy to level that -.-

Edited April 5, 2012 by Elrathion

[CalBears]

Power/Crit enhancements would be the best, but they don't exist yet .-

 

Not sure if you're referring to endgame Power/Crit enhancements, but there is the Advanced Reflective Enhancement 22, it gives +27 Power and +27 Crit (along with +End and +Shield...I forgot those amounts). The shield rating just becomes obsolete for focus/generator off-hand users.

 

Not sure if that enhancement rating is worthy of end-game gear though...maybe those stats are too small/insignificant for you?

Edited April 5, 2012 by CalBears

[Elrathion]

They are on torhead, but to my knowledge they are not in game.

[CalBears]

They are on torhead, but to my knowledge they are not in game.

 

I can 100% unequivocally confirm that the Advanced 22 is in-game. I have them slotted in my gear. They sell on my GTN (Space Slug), usually around 30-40k creds.

 

In fact, it was after I saw them on the GTN and refused to pay that much that I requested my guild artificer to RE for the schematic (took him @ 12-15 tries iirc) ... the ones I have are crafted by him.

 

If no one else that reads this thread can confirm it, I will take a screen shot when I get home.

 

BTW...Don't want you to think I'm just trolling. I actually follow this thread daily (in the hopes that one day I'll PvP). Your posts have been very informative, and I appreciate them greatly. Thanks.

 

SS: http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/universaljunk/AdvancedReflectiveEnhancement22.jpg

Edited April 7, 2012 by CalBears

[Visue]

Trying to learn Telekinetics because the Psychic Suffusion hybrid I was using won't exist soon. I've played it for about a month, but it seems like the spec is just too weak, to be honest. Against equally geared players I'm simply taking far more damage than I'm dealing.

 

Any tips?

Edited April 7, 2012 by Visue

[Elrathion]

It depends what your goal is. I played 8-33 quite sucessfuly. It has enough damage to burst people down and to beat most people 1v1 due to high cc options plus good clutch heal w alacrity.

 

If you wanna play glass cannon u can go cookie cutter, but personally i think 8-33 offers solo and warzone wise

[Joryk]

Greetings Elrathion,

I've been following this thread for about a month or more and have to say you have been a great help in helping me become a better pvper. Now that patch 1.2 is soon so come out and seeing all the doom and gloom posts i am quite confused as to how i play my sage in future.

The 2 specs i have played are hybrid and seer (currently playing) however i see both are receiving nerfs. So could you link some specs that would be optimal in 1.2 for...

solo queing (which i mostly do)

pve dps

Joryk

[Jaylantheagent]

While I enjoy PvP a lot, I'm really getting sick of being pwned as a healing sage. Once Im spotted casting a series of heals, I'm typically ganged up on pretty quickly. Then after that, its not unusual to not accomplish much healing at all. I'm also still leveling so Im hoping for decent xp with each round. Is constantly flagging for PvP worth the frustration or would questing be a faster leveling method?

[Elrathion]

Greetings Elrathion,

I've been following this thread for about a month or more and have to say you have been a great help in helping me become a better pvper. Now that patch 1.2 is soon so come out and seeing all the doom and gloom posts i am quite confused as to how i play my sage in future.

The 2 specs i have played are hybrid and seer (currently playing) however i see both are receiving nerfs. So could you link some specs that would be optimal in 1.2 for...

solo queing (which i mostly do)

pve dps

Joryk

 

Hey Joryk

 

I appriciate you enjoy my thread and that it has helped you forward.

 

Regarding specs, you can easily find a comprehensive list throughout this thread.

 

To make it easy:

 

For pve, 1-12-28 will still be the best dps spec until they fix dual dipping

 

for pvp, it depends on your playstyle:

 

* For big control, good burst, and occassional heals, go 8-33

 

* For maximum mobility, with force constraints, go 3-7-32

 

* For great control, good sustained damage go 0-20-21 OR 2-18-21.

 

* For maximum utility, go 2-21-18.

 

Personally I will probably go for the 0-20-21, because I feel it offers me most in terms of keeping people off me while continue'ing to be on the move and dps'ing. Depending on the fotm past 1.2 and if I feel I can't survive without -0.5s I'll go into 2-18-21 OR 2-21-18.

 

I had most luck winning 1v1 vs ALL classes with 8-33. It basically involves you healing up a few times and then bursting them down.

[Elrathion]

While I enjoy PvP a lot, I'm really getting sick of being pwned as a healing sage. Once Im spotted casting a series of heals, I'm typically ganged up on pretty quickly. Then after that, its not unusual to not accomplish much healing at all. I'm also still leveling so Im hoping for decent xp with each round. Is constantly flagging for PvP worth the frustration or would questing be a faster leveling method?

 

While pvp is certainly fun as a cooldown from all the boring questing, pure questing does level you faster. An advantage of pvp though is that you level both your XP and your valor rank.

 

As to not dying as a seer, it's all about location location location. You need to position yourself at the correct spot, especially as a low level toon. Personal favourites of mine are the fork at civil war mid base, the pillars at civil war, the pillar at voidstar, the fork at the bridge of HutBall. Stand there and they can come with 3-4, they dont stand a rats chance in killing you.

 

Next to that there's the basic important idea of any healer that you can't start healing when you're getting low. You should always strife for maximum hp, so when their cc combo + interrupt greets you, you can suffer through it.

[CalBears]

* For big control, good burst, and occassional heals, go 8-33

 

* For maximum mobility, with force constraints, go 3-7-32

 

* For great control, good sustained damage go 0-20-21 OR 2-18-21.

 

* For maximum utility, go 2-21-18.

 

Personally I will probably go for the 0-20-21, because I feel it offers me most in terms of keeping people off me while continue'ing to be on the move and dps'ing. Depending on the fotm past 1.2 and if I feel I can't survive without -0.5s I'll go into 2-18-21 OR 2-21-18.

 

I had most luck winning 1v1 vs ALL classes with 8-33. It basically involves you healing up a few times and then bursting them down.

 

I know dual-speccing isn't available yet, but if it were available now and you could swap on the fly, what two specs do you feel would give you the greatest flexibility in PvP? Would you actually choose two of the specs above? Or does having the ability to swap alter your specs? Thanks.