Wolfshead.com's SWTOR Review: MMORPG Design & Commentary

[krameriffic]

All mmos that came/come after WoW are based on that fundamental gameplay design.

 

It is not a fault or a plus...just a fact. That gameplay design is what sells right now.

 

It may change later but for now it is what it is.

 

Did you read the guy I quoted? He very explicitly says that he has NEVER played WoW and that he will never play it. In the very next sentence, he says in equally explicit terms that he has played F2P MMOs that look, feel and play better than WoW, a game he has never played before and therefore cannot possibly judge whether it is better or worse.

 

In the words of Harry S. Plinkett, it's what we call a CONTRADICTION.

[sanctimonia]

Yuuuupp.

 

I believe these two videos pretty much sum SWTOR up.

 

 

 

So a video that depicts a boss battle and in no way relates to the actuall comments made by the devs that they showed (In wow you kill boars one at a time, in SWTOR you cant pull less than 3 mobs at a time usualy so the devs were actually right usually you are facing off against multiple foes save for boss battles)

 

And a video depeciting a few bugs

 

Are what sums up the game?

 

If that is what you think then please tell me what school you went to so I can avoid it like the plague.

[sanctimonia]

I know full well that it's not a simple "port" job (assuming they had access to something to port...). They've had years to learn and implement features from other MMO's, though. They had well over a full year of their testers screaming at them to add or change things. And they spent well over a year ignoring them, kind of like a lot of fanboys do to criticism of the game, no matter the short and long term consequences.

 

 

 

Through *the* story, not through *your individual* story. We can go on and on about design philosophy with this topic. I do agree, SWTOR does *story telling* better, though that benefit is minimal and gets old very quickly (space bar...).

 

 

 

Yes, suddenly, I miraculously just know to kill 15 swoop gang members and that someone back at a base will pay me money for that...

 

SWTOR isn't new or innovative. Not by any measure of the words, no matter how many times people lie about it and shout that it is, to others.

 

 

 

Good is a relative term. If by good you mean where people couldn't get in to play their characters for upwards of 2 hours... due to alleged aribtrary software configurations that were in place to prevent servers from being overloaded... oh wait, the sudden doubling of capacity in less than two weeks due to some major technical achievement... the major bugs that prevented players from progressing forward... the exploits that we're... er... no, weren't caught by QA because it was rushed out the door against the wishes of the testers... then no, it did not have a good launch. It's still NOT having a good launch. It is, however, having a relatively *stable* launch, more so than many others. Then again, it never actually had that many true crash bugs, save for the server chat system.

 

1) Yes cause implementing the acutall core of the game (skills, balancing, animations, ops, FPs, coding, etc.) does not take any work at all and thus they were able to focus solely on these extra things right?

 

2) Say what you will I do space bar through some quests that I have done before....but I hardly ever spacebar through my class quests

 

3) Stating your opinion as fact is a sure fire way to show people how narrow minded you are. SWTOR gives loads of more choices than WoW.

 

4) Yea...quickly rising subs is not a good launch at all....please are you serious?

[Dianoia]

All mmos that came/come after WoW are based on that fundamental gameplay design.

 

It is not a fault or a plus...just a fact. That gameplay design is what sells right now.

 

It may change later but for now it is what it is.

 

I don't understand why people think that is a bad thing. I played WoW for years. It was a great game (Vanilla was OK, TBC was great, Wrath was meh, Cata is horrible). I really enjoy the EQ/WoW/WAR model of MMO. SWTOR, for me, is WoW gussied up with a great IP.

 

Just as MW2 was a Quake, or FFVII was a Dragon Quest, just like Castlevania: SotN was a Metroid.

 

Seriously, at this stage of gaming, evolution happens slowly, not radically. The exceptions to this are so few and far between, and oftentimes crash and burn (Shenmue, anyone?). There's nothing wrong with taking what works and what is proven to be enjoyable and putting your own spin on it.

[sanctimonia]

Did you read the guy I quoted? He very explicitly says that he has NEVER played WoW and that he will never play it. In the very next sentence, he says in equally explicit terms that he has played F2P MMOs that look, feel and play better than WoW, a game he has never played before and therefore cannot possibly judge whether it is better or worse.

 

In the words of Harry S. Plinkett, it's what we call a CONTRADICTION.

 

Indeed....I was not saying your were right or wrong...or that he was

 

I was simply stating that WoW's game design (questing, leveling up, talnets) has been adopted and will be used by many mmos to come simply because it sells.

[sanctimonia]

I don't understand why people think that is a bad thing. I played WoW for years. It was a great game (Vanilla was OK, TBC was great, Wrath was meh, Cata is horrible). I really enjoy the EQ/WoW/WAR model of MMO. SWTOR, for me, is WoW gussied up with a great IP.

 

Just as MW2 was a Quake, or FFVII was a Dragon Quest, just like Castlevania: SotN was a Metroid.

 

Seriously, at this stage of gaming, evolution happens slowly, not radically. The exceptions to this are so few and far between, and oftentimes crash and burn (Shenmue, anyone?). There's nothing wrong with taking what works and what is proven to be enjoyable and putting your own spin on it.

 

I certianly dont thinks its a bad thing....in fact its why wow is such a big hit.

 

It is simple to grasp yet leaves a lot of room to play with and expand on.

[Zandragal]

After you view the first cinematic, you get to create your character. Most of the character choices are limited to humanoid species — this was done to save art development costs. I’m not very familiar with the totality of the Star Wars universe so I wasn’t bothered by the lack of racial choices that Blizzard’s World of Warcraft currently offers. I did appreciate the facial customization choices that were available.[/endquote]

 

I stopped reading here.

 

Lack of racial choices?

 

#1 There are as many races available to play in SWTOR as WoW.

 

#2 The lack of more cowbell (read; Tauren) does not change this comparison, fanboi.

 

#3 There is a fundamental difference in design philosophy regarding these races. In WoW, picking a race included minor but sometimes role-determinant benefits, like a Tauren's +5% to stamina or the gnome / human anti-CC ability. In SWTOR you pick a race simply because you like the way it looks, the choice is purely cosmetic.

[krameriffic]

3) Stating your opinion as fact is a sure fire way to show people how narrow minded you are. SWTOR gives loads of more choices than WoW.

 

But when you get right down to it, the choices in this game have little to no effect on gameplay and story direction. Dialog choices almost never matter at all. Light and dark side points mean practically nothing as they have no affect on any of your character's abilities and rarely impact the use of items. On occasion you might make a light/dark choice that causes you to actually feel an emotion, but these are typically reserved for the main questlines and they still tend not to really matter in the long run. Do I kill Tavus or do I take him in? Do I turn Jaesa to the dark side or leave her on the light? These are about as meaningful as they come, but they still don't feel that important as they could be if my trooper or my sith warrior was in a real single player KOTOR 3.

 

The limited scope of choices in this game is a result of the compromise required to make it a functional MMO. You can never make a choice that results in a companion dying or leaving you (like you often could in KOTOR, NWN and BG). It just isn't viable in an MMO. Group play means that choices can't have serious impact in group content because.. how do you handle it if it does? You can't let one ******* make a bad decision with severe, permanent repercussions on the progression of the other players in his party. This compromise between MMO and cRPG leaves the RPGers with blue balls about the story and you begin to realize that it's nowhere near as good as it's often touted to be. The Witcher 2 has two entirely different second acts in the game depending on a single decision you make. That's *********** choice.

 

The sort of choice you are referring to is bonus missions. You can choose whether or not to do the boring, repetitive "kill 30 of these guys, click on 5 glowies, kill world elite du jour, deposit his insignia in the box for 3 planet commendations and an XP bonus". And that is what they always are. Every single one is a variation on that model. Uninspired, uninteresting copy-paste game design that does nothing for the weak facade of motivation you might feel for doing the mission in the first place. The only thing they offer is further loot and XP based incentivization for performing more menial MMO tasks.

Edited February 13, 2012 by krameriffic

[sanctimonia]

After you view the first cinematic, you get to create your character. Most of the character choices are limited to humanoid species — this was done to save art development costs. I’m not very familiar with the totality of the Star Wars universe so I wasn’t bothered by the lack of racial choices that Blizzard’s World of Warcraft currently offers. I did appreciate the facial customization choices that were available.[/endquote]

 

I stopped reading here.

 

Lack of racial choices?

 

#1 There are as many races available to play in SWTOR as WoW.

 

#2 The lack of more cowbell (read; Tauren) does not change this comparison, fanboi.

 

#3 There is a fundamental difference in design philosophy regarding these races. In WoW, picking a race included minor but sometimes role-determinant benefits, like a Tauren's +5% to stamina or the gnome / human anti-CC ability. In SWTOR you pick a race simply because you like the way it looks, the choice is purely cosmetic.

 

I think WoW would do what SWTOR did with races now if they could...having game enchancing racials while cool leads to a lot of flames and people shouting "X race is a better Y due to racial W"

 

Also the social skills are a nice touch...rally FTW.

 

I really have to go to sleep now lol.

[sanctimonia]

But when you get right down to it, the choices in this game have little to no effect on gameplay and story direction. Dialog choices almost never matter at all. Light and dark side points mean practically nothing as they have no affect on any of your character's abilities and rarely impact the use of items. On occasion you might make a light/dark choice that causes you to actually feel an emotion, but these are typically reserved for the main questlines and they still tend not to really matter in the long run. Do I kill Tavus or do I take him in? Do I turn Jaesa to the dark side or leave her on the light? These are about as meaningful as they come, but they still don't feel that important as they could be if my trooper or my sith warrior was in a real single player KOTOR 3.

 

The limited scope of choices in this game is a result of the compromise required to make it a functional MMO. You can never make a choice that results in a companion dying or leaving you (like you often could in KOTOR, NWN and BG). It just isn't viable in an MMO. Group play means that choices can't have serious impact in group content because how do you handle it if it does? You can't let one ******* make a bad decision that severe permanent repercussions on the progression of the other players in his party. This compromise between MMO and cRPG leaves the RPGers with blue balls about the story. You begin to realize that the story in this game is nowhere near as good as it's often touted to be. The Witcher 2 has two entirely different second acts in the game depending on a single decision you make. That's *********** choice.

 

The sort of choice you are referring to is bonus missions. You can choose whether or not to do the boring, repetitive "kill 30 of these guys, click on 5 glowies, kill world elite du jour, deposit his insignia in the box for 3 planet commendations and an XP bonus". And that is what they always are. Every single one is a variation on that model. Uninspired, uninteresting storytelling that does nothing for the weak facade of motivation you might feel for doing the mission in the first place. The only thing they offer is further loot and XP based incentivization for performing more menial MMO tasks.

 

Someone sounds angry...

 

The choices in SWTOR are about as meaningful as you can get withing an MMO. The story class choices even more so.

 

Instead of running through Deadmines the same time every time I can run FPs and have it progress 1-2 somtimes 3 different ways depending on how I chose the choices.

 

It still has vastly more choices than other MMOs.

 

K now I really am going to sleep, later.

Edited February 13, 2012 by sanctimonia

[Baaddare]

One of the most popular MMO blogs for the past 5 years writes a very elaborate and thorough review of Bioware's epic Star Wars project.

 

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/

 

Direct link: http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/swtors-300-million-virtual-bridge-to-nowhere/#b5414

 

Enjoy the good read.

 

actually, a rather poor review filled with inaccuracies. Also, any review which claims a game is a copy of WoW while ignoring the fact WoW is a copy of EQ and other MMo's that came before it shows a starting wow bias. On another point i never heard of this site let alone have read anything there so not sure how popular over all it is.

 

P.S. you want to tell him the budget was 150 million not 300

Edited February 13, 2012 by Baaddare

[Dianoia]

After you view the first cinematic, you get to create your character. Most of the character choices are limited to humanoid species — this was done to save art development costs. I’m not very familiar with the totality of the Star Wars universe so I wasn’t bothered by the lack of racial choices that Blizzard’s World of Warcraft currently offers. I did appreciate the facial customization choices that were available.[/endquote]

 

I stopped reading here.

 

Lack of racial choices?

 

#1 There are as many races available to play in SWTOR as WoW.

 

#2 The lack of more cowbell (read; Tauren) does not change this comparison, fanboi.

 

#3 There is a fundamental difference in design philosophy regarding these races. In WoW, picking a race included minor but sometimes role-determinant benefits, like a Tauren's +5% to stamina or the gnome / human anti-CC ability. In SWTOR you pick a race simply because you like the way it looks, the choice is purely cosmetic.

 

His whole review is pretty trashy.

[JustTed]

I have played about 20 levels of SWTOR and this review is by no means complete or comprehensive.

 

How did anyone make it past this sentence?

[RamzaBehoulve]

One of the most popular MMO blogs for the past 5 years writes a very elaborate and thorough review of Bioware's epic Star Wars project.

 

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/

 

Direct link: http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/swtors-300-million-virtual-bridge-to-nowhere/#b5414

 

Enjoy the good read.

 

Popular? Never heard of it, neither did the 20 or so people I asked.

[Sizzurps]

 

I think WoW would do what SWTOR did with races now if they could...having game enchancing racials while cool leads to a lot of flames and people shouting "X race is a better Y due to racial W"

 

Also the social skills are a nice touch...rally FTW.

 

I really have to go to sleep now lol.

 

Doubt it - SWTOR racials are for mere titillation / amusement and serve no utility.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Sizzurps

[sevev]

One of the most popular MMO blogs for the past 5 years writes a very elaborate and thorough review of Bioware's epic Star Wars project.

 

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/

 

Direct link: http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/swtors-300-million-virtual-bridge-to-nowhere/#b5414

 

Enjoy the good read.

 

The TLDR version is

 

SWTOR is not EQ1/SWG therefore I do not like it. Until MMOs go back to EQ1/SWG method of gameplay then that game will fail...

 

Because we all know that EQ1 and SWG were tremendous financial success stories.

[Fezzhan]

I gave up reading after the first 5 WoW references. I have NEVER played WoW, never will. I don't get why every single MMORPG to be released HAS to be compared to WoW. Tbph, I think there are a lot of free-to-play MMOs that are better than WoW, in terms of gameplay, graphics and aesthetics.

 

Basically, I thought he was meant to be reviewing SWTOR, not WoW...

 

If you didnt play Wow you cant say "I think there are a lot of free-to-play MMOs that are better than WoW".

[Baaddare]

The TLDR version is

 

SWTOR is not EQ1/SWG therefore I do not like it. Until MMOs go back to EQ1/SWG method of gameplay then that game will fail...

 

Because we all know that EQ1 and SWG were tremendous financial success stories.

 

actually EQ1 was and is a tremendous financial success for SOE

[ShonaChaos]

My favorite part of the article...

 

"Bioware have blindly copied many of the assumptions, conventions and mechanics that Blizzard has stealthily impregnated into the MMO zeitgeist over the years. These include: reward desired behavior mentality, heavily scripted narrative and quest-centric game play, the devaluation of challenge, solo friendliness, lack of any consequences for failure or death, an orgy of loot, and a lack of a need to cooperate and socialize with fellow players. This is the kind of MMO that $300 million buys you.

 

By far the worst Blizzard design philosophy that Bioware has copied is the notion that players should be rewarded for just showing up. The sense of achievement and its progeny: status — both critical motivational factors that keep players playing have been completely eroded. Recklessly pandering to the lowest common denominator leads to the creation a sense of entitlement among players that every ounce of content is theirs by right to experience regardless of skill level or commitment. Instead of being viewed as citizens of a virtual world, players are now seen as amusement park customers and treated as such."

 

 

^^True!

[BobaFurz]

...whats the point of reviews anyway, especially from professional game magazines.

 

 

->> marketing and advertising

 

If you trust them solely you are up for some disappointments. Always test games by yourself.

[Tersidre]

eve online still has all of the values the reviewer wanted... thats why im still subbed to it as well

[BobaFurz]

eve online still has all of the values the reviewer wanted... thats why im still subbed to it as well

 

Thats your personal opinion, a review doesnt always reflect the individual taste of gamers.

At the end it is about business, hype & marketing and profit. But this should be obvious.

Edited February 13, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Setanian]

actually, a rather poor review filled with inaccuracies. Also, any review which claims a game is a copy of WoW while ignoring the fact WoW is a copy of EQ and other MMo's that came before it shows a starting wow bias. On another point i never heard of this site let alone have read anything there so not sure how popular over all it is.

 

P.S. you want to tell him the budget was 150 million not 300

 

Most reviewers out there have probably never played eq, much like most of the players here. So any reviewer is going to compare it to the best known. It is not showing a bias, it is showing an experience level, same as the players here.

 

The site has been around a long time.

[Saitada]

eve online still has all of the values the reviewer wanted... thats why im still subbed to it as well

 

My EVE sub's activity depends on how happy I am with the devs. Right after Incarna.. wasn't too happy, so cancelled for a while. Now i'm back in again, enjoying my SB raids through low/null sec as usual.

 

EVE, where real PvP'rs go to play.

 

~S

[Setanian]

1) Yes cause implementing the acutall core of the game (skills, balancing, animations, ops, FPs, coding, etc.) does not take any work at all and thus they were able to focus solely on these extra things right?

 

Yes, the basics are basics, any coder who has coded for more than 5 years knows this.

 

3) Stating your opinion as fact is a sure fire way to show people how narrow minded you are. SWTOR gives loads of more choices than WoW.

 

See, now that's your opinion. And as such, your claim is correct. Decent LFG tool? Decent Auction House? Barbers? Wide open World? Macros? Customisable UI? Meters? Add-Ons? Shall I continue?

 

No doubt you'll come back with, vanilla wow didn't have all that at launch, but guess what? This is 2012 not 2005...

 

4) Yea...quickly rising subs is not a good launch at all....please are you serious?

 

No it's not. Launches are not measured on subs, but rather on how you manage those subs. How you cater for the influx of expected players. How you manage the servers, how many patches you have to roll out within the first month. How good/bad your customer support is.

 

This is an IP bases RPG, with some simple MMO add-ons. It was bound to have an incredible numbers of initial subs, which it did. The measurement of ToR is in the numbers that stay.

 

I'd ask you are you serious but I see you are *sigh*