MMO Vets, What do you think?

[MORTTUUM]

Not sure how you (OP) define "Vet", but, to all, this is a GAME, and it's meant to be FUN, not some sort of pathetic manhood-test. If you want a challenge, go out an find a challenge in the real world; see if you can lap Laguna Seca in under 1:40 on a 600 for example.

[Chewpaco]

I think the answer to this question is rather simple.

 

This is not an MMORPG, in my opinion anyway.

 

This is a single player game hosted on an online server, that has numerous cooperative OPTIONS.

 

The more Solo - Friendly a game is, the less cooperation needed - on a every level basis it is, the less massive multiplayer needed.

 

A lot of newer MMO gamers are going to disagree. They are going to want to compare to WoW, and how WoW was solo friendly - therefor all MMO's should be solo friendly.

 

But that simply isn't true for some of us. I enjoyed gaming in 2002 when I had to RELY on others for progression, and they relied on me. I grouped with the same people for 7 years in EQ. 7 years!

 

I didn't jump from guild to guild. Join pick up raids - they didnt exist. I progressed with the same people, made great online gaming friends. This will never happen again in my lifetime with a game that has a large commercial budget. Not because the games are better being solo friendly, because they aren't. But because gamers have changed. i want it fast, I want it now - it the prevailing thought, and no patience for long term progression is tolerated.

 

I don't mind an epic class quest that takes 4 months to complete. Could you imagine the uproar that would cause in today's communities?

 

Remember when the tag above your name <Guild Name> was more important than your own name? I do. Those were better days.

[fendergibson]

To answer the OP's question:

 

Well, I just cancelled my sub :/ The game is too dumbed down, bioware is overnerfing classes (they listen too much on the noobs, and not so much on the ones who got a clue).

 

Game engine = fail.

Ilum = fail.

Open pvp = Huge fail.

Warzones = sometimes fun, but its too easy to get gear, noobs get the same gear as the best ones, with no effort/rating involved etc.

 

Rated pvp = the same crap as the old system, just with a new name. Noobs will still get the greatest gear in the game as the best ones fast, and again with no effort.. lazy noobs win!

 

I had some faith in the game, but I've simply lost interest now. Now I actually think mists of pandaria will kill this game with its pokemon endgame material and all, as sadly as that sounds.

[Lostkoss]

I am an upset consumer and veteran avid gamer. Extremely disappointed.

 

I was sold A full feature "themepark" MMO , what I got was just one lousy rollercoaster on tight rails that gets boring very quickly.

[Twisted_Sisters]

Unsubbed... sad attempt, i really wanted this to be my game for the next 4 years. The game has little potential from here. No miracle patch on the horizon.

 

I 'm skeptical EA is going to invest another $10-20 million to make this game a head turner... i have no data ( nor need data) to realized subs are sinking fast. IP isn't everything. Sell it to Sony

 

This game has actually set the mmorpg genre backwards. Just my humble opinion.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Twisted_Sisters

[RolyartNala]

Thats all I have now, but I am still just a few days in the game, what else do the Vets think? If you disagree thats fine, but keep the flames at a minimum. These are just some opinions I have developed so far.

SWTOR is an experience that is largely derivative of WoW---if you liked WoW, you might like SWTOR because it's WoW with fewer and slightly different features. WoW streamlined or removed a lot of the suck from EverQuest, and SWTOR streamlines, elminates or recreates a lot of the suck from WoW.

 

For all that, it's a fun game. I liked WoW. I like SWTOR. The one feature that I am nearly over, however, is the cinematic cutscenes. Once you've seen them once, there is really no need to experience them again. They become annoying impediments to getting back to the game. Even spacebarring gets annoying after a while. I wish I could just skip them all, except for (1) new cutscenes I haven't seen yet and (2) group dialogues, which are fun as long as you haven't run the same flashpoint more than three or four times.

 

A year from now, I imagine most longterm players will be spacebarring everything. Hopefully BioWare collects their famous "metrics" on that, and will provide an opt-out option in the future.

[Tekkoclarky]

The levelling experience is something special, i really liked it.

 

There is just so much missing from the game though, it had huge potential and it was rushed for a christmas release...

 

You get bored quick at max level, there is not a lot to do for an experienced MMOer.

 

I also miss mako, she was great while levelling and a nice story to max affection. After that, nothing.

[JediElf]

Not sure how you (OP) define "Vet", but, to all, this is a GAME, and it's meant to be FUN, not some sort of pathetic manhood-test. If you want a challenge, go out an find a challenge in the real world; see if you can lap Laguna Seca in under 1:40 on a 600 for example.

 

This ^

 

I've been playing MMOs for years, and this is the most fun I've had in a long, long, long time.

 

Sure it needs a few additions, (same gender romance being the major one), but over all SW:TOR is a quality game, that will grow, chage, and get even better over time.

 

It's off to a good start. ^_^

Edited April 4, 2012 by JediElf

[Gorgor]

I think the answer to this question is rather simple.

 

This is not an MMORPG, in my opinion anyway.

 

This is a single player game hosted on an online server, that has numerous cooperative OPTIONS.

 

The more Solo - Friendly a game is, the less cooperation needed - on a every level basis it is, the less massive multiplayer needed.

 

A lot of newer MMO gamers are going to disagree. They are going to want to compare to WoW, and how WoW was solo friendly - therefor all MMO's should be solo friendly.

 

But that simply isn't true for some of us. I enjoyed gaming in 2002 when I had to RELY on others for progression, and they relied on me. I grouped with the same people for 7 years in EQ. 7 years!

 

I didn't jump from guild to guild. Join pick up raids - they didnt exist. I progressed with the same people, made great online gaming friends. This will never happen again in my lifetime with a game that has a large commercial budget. Not because the games are better being solo friendly, because they aren't. But because gamers have changed. i want it fast, I want it now - it the prevailing thought, and no patience for long term progression is tolerated.

 

I don't mind an epic class quest that takes 4 months to complete. Could you imagine the uproar that would cause in today's communities?

 

Remember when the tag above your name <Guild Name> was more important than your own name? I do. Those were better days.

 

I wonder if the newer players are even aware of the way MMOs used to be. Anything high enouh level to give you xp killed you, so grouping was required.

 

I would kill for a hard mode server. Throw in live invasions of the space station, where the trade market area is under attack, npcs are defending, including vendors, who are fighting for their lives and cannot vend, and I'm sold.

 

Did that upset you on your journey to grind with a friend? Get thee to a nunnery AKA easy or medium difficulty server.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Gorgor

[Frostvein]

I wonder if the newer players are even aware of the way MMOs used to be. Anything high enouh level to give you xp killed you, so grouping was required.

 

I would kill for a hard mode server. Throw in live invasions of the space station, where the trade market area is under attack, npcs are defending, including vendors, who are fighting for their lives and cannot vend, and I'm sold.

 

Did that upset you on your journey to grind with a friend? Get thee to a nunnery AKA easy or medium difficulty server.

 

I don't think we'll ever see different servers for different difficulties. Too much balancing involved and most devs don't seem to have the time/motivation to put forth the effort required in maintaining them

[Anyannka]

I'm very happy with the game. I've played mmos for a long time. I am personally sick of 16 hour raid weeks and the need to have so many people (most of which you despise) just to clear content. This game was made fun, interesting and not a time consuming sink hole of constant grinding. It was an excellent choice. The story is fantastic. The new changes coming in 1.2 are also exciting. Most are addressing concerns I've had in the past.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this:

 

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

great list, should be a to-do list for 1.3-1.5

[Gorgor]

The max life span for this game will inevitably be 5 years. Unless they stop making the same mistakes that Star Wars Galaxies made in its first 5 years...TOR will be completely gone in 10 years...outside estimation. They are building on the mentallity of a single player game locked on Insanity level with absolutely no options for cheat codes or trainers. I have played RPGs and MMOs for years and while this has an AWESOME concept...it is catering to a specific ideal. Make a game that no cheats or trainers can mess with...well they got that and they have inherited the EXACT same issues that Galaxies had in its beginning. The developers for Galaxies discovered their mistakes and corrected them, but it was too late...by 5 years and now that game no longer exists.

 

TOR has, like I said, an AWESOME concept. However, they didn't actually do anything with that concept other than market it...they just took on the problems of their predecessor and ignored what was working in MMOs and went with what didn't work in the first place.

 

Do I hope that they figure out the issues in time...yes.

Do I believe that they will fix those issues...maybe.

Do I believe that this game will last longer than 5 to 10 years...not unless they make some drastic changes in their way of THINKING that a MMO is just a single player game on steroids.

 

I hope that they actually do something about keeping things interesting in the future...like letting players continue on past level 50. Otherwise this will bomb like Galaxies and the CEOs will be sitting around scratching their heads wondering why they failed in the first place.

 

If they could be guaranteed 5 yeaes before F2P kicks in, I think they'd be happy. 10 years and they'd be ecstatic (and we could expect a dozen more WoW clones).

 

As it is, this free play for friends and free weekend stuff is scary. They're trying to not turn into a big fail like DC Universe Online.

 

We shall see.

[Wolfengoose]

The way I see it now with games, the biggest problem now isn't the developers, it's the customers...

 

Let's be honest, we're all self-important, elitest, lazy, and want to be entertained every minute of every day with whatever game we get into.

[LrdScorpio]

The way I see it now with games, the biggest problem now isn't the developers, it's the customers...

 

Let's be honest, we're all self-important, elitest, lazy, and want to be entertained every minute of every day with whatever game we get into.

 

This

 

The other thing is that most customers think that if they don't like the product, other people care. Suggestions and positive feedback are always listened to but as a developer myself, nobody reads, cares or listens to the whining and moaning.

[Captain_Zone]

I have played quite a few MMO's over the years and I just wanted to throw my opinion out there and discuss any agreements or disagreements about swtor.

 

Not being one for story in a mmo (click, click, just give me the quest already), I will have to say that the class quests in this game has me hooked! As an alt-aholic this gives me giddy waves of joy!! Once I hit lvl cap and can't find anything to do, well start an alt and watch his story unfold... I like it. This game has the best (imo) story mode of any mmo (and a few single player games) that I have played.

 

I have noticed a trend in MMO's lately that didn't start with this game, but is certainly prevalent. Solo-ability to cap and as quick as possible. At the rate i'm going I will probably hit my cap before I get charged for my first month. This is a double edged sword for me. Sure I like that I don't HAVE to group to level up, and with this type of system the grind is almost eleminated. But for a subscription based service, I don't know if I will spend the wow like amount of time at the endgame, grinding out the same raids, pvp, or dailies for new gear and such. One of my favorite mmo's is EQ2 (and please this is an opinion, so lets not make this a discussion on how much SOE sucks), and, to me, the journey is as fun as the endgame. Subscribing to that game wasn't a bother to me, because I felt like I was getting the most time out of my money. It would take months for even some hardcore players to get to cap (I am talking the early days, takes a lot less time now).

 

I like the crafting system. I have played everything from active crafting (eq2) where you actually have to pay attention to what your doing, and find creative ways not to fall asleep at the keyboard, passive crafting (aion was good for this) where you just load up on mats and let your character craft while you do the laundry. There are more games I have played, but those seem like the two extreams (and dont even talk to me about vanguard lol). This system seems to have the nice balance of getting stuff done crafting wise, while your character can still do stuff on his own... To me that strikes a good balance.

 

Thats all I have now, but I am still just a few days in the game, what else do the Vets think? If you disagree thats fine, but keep the flames at a minimum. These are just some opinions I have developed so far.

 

I take it for what it is. KotOR III, in essence. As an MMO, it's not the greatest I've ever played as far as group content, and some of the solo content needs to be either rebalanced from Beta player nerfs still, or at least give us some difficulty sliders for our instanced missions.

 

That said, it has BioWare's solid storytelling and voice acting, with the ENTIRE GAME fully voiced. Most of the voice acting is excellent, in fact. Some storylines are better than others, but then, it's all a matter of what YOU like in a story.

 

Gameplay is solid for what it is. I've seen it before in EQ, EQII, CoH, WoW beta, etc. Just a few minor tweaks to add the Star Wars flavor. It is what it is.

 

Space Combat minigames are fun for what they are. Could they have been done better? Yes, most definitely. Does that mean they suck? No. Never been much of a rail shooter fan, but they help break up the same ol' Planetary stuff day in and day out.

 

Music throughout the game is excellent, with only a few exceptions. Good stuff.

 

Interaction with your crewmates is engaging and immersive. Having an NPC companion come with you on your missions is fun. Feels almost like you're duoing missions sometimes. Companions are fun for the most part. There are some I can't stand, but most have at least some redeeming qualities.

 

Hey, it's Star Wars! I'm there! lol

 

Only thing I would REALLY want to change about it is the Space Combat. More EVE style and less rail shooter.

[Jett-Rinn]

the way i see it now with games, the biggest problem now isn't the developers, it's the customers...

 

Let's be honest, we're all self-important, elitest, lazy, and want to be entertained every minute of every day with whatever game we get into.

 

amen!

[Fondoo]

I will make a cute panda monk and become a legendary pokemon master.YOU BETTA BEREEV IT

[Cerion]

The way I see it now with games, the biggest problem now isn't the developers, it's the customers...

 

Let's be honest, we're all self-important, elitest, lazy, and want to be entertained every minute of every day with whatever game we get into.

 

I'd have to say I agree with this statement simply because I'm the opposite: I'm hard-working, oft-times magnanimous, empathetic, and don't demand unlimited entertainment in a finite world.

 

I'm also enjoying the game.

[Valkirus]

The way I see it now with games, the biggest problem now isn't the developers, it's the customers...

 

Let's be honest, we're all self-important, elitest, lazy, and want to be entertained every minute of every day with whatever game we get into.

 

And the ones who keep the salaries going for the developers. So we ARE the reason they have a job to begin with.

[AidanLightwalker]

I'd have to say I agree with this statement simply because I'm the opposite: I'm hard-working, oft-times magnanimous, empathetic, and don't demand unlimited entertainment in a finite world.

 

I'm also enjoying the game.

 

 

Agreed.

[Dekkau]

Because I have played a lot of time with MMOs I find myself getting annoyed a lot in this game. There are numerous issues and some of the game mechanics are just so frustrating at times. I curse and moan I guess but it really isn't that game breaking and I guess I hope such matters will be addressed in time. Not sure if there is an 'I don't like' feed back box in game that you can fill in like in Rift but I think the game could lose a lot of complaining on forums if there was more ingame interaction with the creators. Certainly in these first six months it could have helped a lot flagging the game with 'L Plates' or ' Running In Be Patient' notices on the main chat pane when you log in. I think if the creators were more humble about the product and be more ready to accept fault then those like me that play may feel, well they are trying. I have to say I have no idea just what is being done to better the game and whether any of the issues I get are being dealt with.

 

Anyway I am prepared to give the game time though in that time I doubt I will bother with aspects of the game that really 'p' me off.

[DaxCloudchaser]

I'm at work and don't have the luxury or time of going back and reading 600 posts, so if I'm beating a dead horse, sorry.

 

To sum it all up? 15+ years experience here, and I feel this game was a victim of being pushed out too early by a corporation (see: "Golden Poo award 2012: http://www.reddit.com/tb/rt19w) that is all too eager to nickel and dime the hell out of the consumer. Its a mediocre game at best, that has had 10+ years of MMO's to study, but whoever was in charge was high at the wheel. Good game in concept, complete crap execution. Fun to play, but easy to fizzle out. Main complaints:

 

Things that the game did NOT launch with that there is no excuse for:

-LFG system

-Customizable UI

-Search function in the GTN

-Guild bank

-More than 2 experiences that require more than 4 people.

-Macros

-Ability to incorporate harmless 3rd party addons

-Cross server anything

 

"Are you kidding me?":

-5 months in and STILL cant invite people from guild screen

-More Sith than Jedi? Who didnt see THAT coming? Huttball galore.

-No Player PVP ranking system?

-Legacy system full of fluff. designed to make you make more characters, keep playing longer, and spend more money

-World PVP? wat?

-Battlemaster gear - the *best* gear you can get from endless grinding is NOT the best gear to use?

-I went from fresh 50 with crap gear to loaded up head to toe (companion too) in 2 weeks flat, able to do any content the game has to offer.

-Class imbalance on a ridiculous scale

-All efort into leveling, little to nothing beyond 50.

 

I realize that a lot of this is being addressed, and maybe even fixed soon. However, I still feel almost insulted that it didnt launch with these things in mind.

 

Things I love about the game:

-leveling story was superb

-companion system

-gathering system

-compartmentalization (instancing EVERYTHING)

-1-49 pvp scaling.

-voiced everything

 

All this being said, I've all about quit. Going to give 1.2 a shot and hope its not a lot of empty, pretty shell. It just isnt that fun anymore.

Edited April 4, 2012 by DaxCloudchaser

[Seriasx]

This

 

The other thing is that most customers think that if they don't like the product, other people care. Suggestions and positive feedback are always listened to but as a developer myself, nobody reads, cares or listens to the whining and moaning.

 

Great business practices at work.

 

How to make less money.

 

Step 1. Ignore complaints from people who are not satisfied with your product, this way instead of 10% of your former customers complaining before quitting we can knock it down to 0%. Nothing says give me less money then ignoring your customers as they look elsewhere.

 

Step 2. Not required, you already ignored your unsatisfied playerbase so no you have no more problems!

 

Brilliant!

[Phamcar]

My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this:

 

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

Agree with this post and your previous one.

 

We can only wish and hope!!