PhaserFreddy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet This is brilliant. Every time I log in to play my sniper I want to complain but I don't because I have that horribly passive attitude. You know the kind where you wait 6 years in WOW to have world pvp become pleasant again. This game is stepping DANGEROUSLY close(if not RIGHT ON) to what WOW was and is. So far, for a game that has been in development for so long, Bioware has a very thin crowd of impressed gamers. If i were going to add something to this list it would be: -far too many hot-keys for abilities that seem similar to each other. -messy and mostly unappealing skill trees/talents. -no usable lfg function. Theres just far too many to list. This company has its work cut out for it. Personally I'd rather just watch the old movies again and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyCooL Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ughhhh, MMO vets... How much longer will it take for you to process the following message... This games a story-driven MMO, made by Bioware. That means, its a STORY-BASED videogame, first and an MMO second. All your precious features, that you cant live without, take secondary priority, if ever get realized. And all of them are borrowed from WOW just to facilitate the Story/Narrative Process , witch developers have tied with every possible experience and kept trying to sell. Damn it, im sorry, but it was stated with the very Announcement, what this game was striving to become. Yet some of you either forget, or chose to ignore that. And with future confirmed content and expansions bringing further chapters into the class stories of each character, with a total of 10 acts for each class, the direction does not seem to be changing... Not saying Raiding and PVP will not take, need the necessary improvements, but understand the priority! Anyone who has not lived under a rock for the last 2 decades, knows Bioware does Narrative-Heavy games, even when they switch from RPGs to MMOs and 3rd-Person-Shoothers. So if you want and END GAME- centric experience this is not the WOW 2.0, you were looking for. How some people cant get THAT, after 3 years is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyradder Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I've been playing MMO's since UO shipped: UO, WWII Online, EvE Online, WoW...still playing the latter two games. I rather like ToR. I finally got my main (or first) character to 50 on Sunday, and beat my story line quest main adversary last night, which was excellent. So I rate the levelling experience in the game with full marks; the storylines are fantastic (I have 3 alts), and I managed to make use of my crafting skills while levelling. I haven't really bothered with grouping a whole lot yet, as I generally find that kills immersion (most folks don't, won't or can't roleplay their way out of a paper bag), so this remains to be explored. PvP is interesting but there are some pretty major performance gains that need to be made there before it becomes worthwhile. Endgame crafting seems completely useless though....that needs to change sooner rather than later. The most glaring hole in the game for me is the space end of things...coming from EvE Online, lets just say the ToR space experience is rather massively lacking. My plan is to level alts and continue to enjoy the story driven parts of the game, as they are excellent as things stand, while Bioware polishes and expands the other aspects of the game. This game has the potential to be the best MMO ever, but it's really depending on what Bioware does going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Worse gameplay/lag of any MMO I've ever played. For me, that's all the matters. Graphics, music, and world all come in a distant second in terms of long term playability. Not that this game does any of that well. I played Anarchy, MXO, WOW, LOTRO, WAR, EVE. None were as underwhelming as SWTOR, expecially considering the pricetag and they year it was released. Edited February 13, 2012 by OldBenSmokin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyCooL Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The most glaring hole in the game for me is the space end of things...coming from EvE Online, lets just say the ToR space experience is rather massively lacking. Dude. its kinda suppose to be a Mini-Game. Not a The Space Experience . Though, yeah, sometimes i wish i was more heavily realized... I agree with everything else... Except im finding the PVP lots of fun and grouping over FP, you can definitely meat some fine folks and have a blast clearing those after/ Heck, it even facilitates trading and certainly helps friends-lists grow. But i agree, when out in the Word soloing, grouping definitely kills immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skorpius Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ughhhh, MMO vets... How much longer will it take for you to process the following message... This games a story-driven MMO, made by Bioware. That means, its a STORY-BASED videogame, first and an MMO second. All your precious features, that you cant live without, take secondary priority, if ever get realized. And all of them are borrowed from WOW just to facilitate the Story/Narrative Process , witch developers have tied with every possible experience and kept trying to sell. Damn it, im sorry, but it was stated with the very Announcement, what this game was striving to become. Yet some of you either forget, or chose to ignore that. And with future confirmed content and expansions bringing further chapters into the class stories of each character, with a total of 10 acts for each class, the direction does not seem to be changing... Not saying Raiding and PVP will not take, need the necessary improvements, but understand the priority! Anyone who has not lived under a rock for the last 2 decades, knows Bioware does Narrative-Heavy games, even when they switch from RPGs to MMOs and 3rd-Person-Shoothers. So if you want and END GAME- centric experience this is not the WOW 2.0, you were looking for. How some people cant get THAT, after 3 years is insane. This Guy said it all. I feel they will not listen tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhit Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Balmorra is an excellent example of why TOR isn't a true MMO. Balmorra is a leveling planet for each faction. Empire travel to the planet in their lower 20s. Republic travel to the planet in their lower 30s. Not that big of deal--lots of MMO's have shared zones. Except Balmorra isn't a shared zone. Empire fly to the planet and all the mobs are under level 30 and all the quests tuned for Empire. Fly to Balmorra as a Republic player and you go to a completely different planet--sure the map is the same, but everything has been changed to be Republic and level 30+. What a joke. What is the point of playing a PVP server if each faction simply flies to their own version of a planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ughhhh, MMO vets... How much longer will it take for you to process the following message... This games a story-driven MMO, made by Bioware. That means, its a STORY-BASED videogame, first and an MMO second. All your precious features, that you cant live without, take secondary priority, if ever get realized. And all of them are borrowed from WOW just to facilitate the Story/Narrative Process , witch developers have tied with every possible experience and kept trying to sell. Damn it, im sorry, but it was stated with the very Announcement, what this game was striving to become. Yet some of you either forget, or chose to ignore that. And with future confirmed content and expansions bringing further chapters into the class stories of each character, with a total of 10 acts for each class, the direction does not seem to be changing... Not saying Raiding and PVP will not take, need the necessary improvements, but understand the priority! Anyone who has not lived under a rock for the last 2 decades, knows Bioware does Narrative-Heavy games, even when they switch from RPGs to MMOs and 3rd-Person-Shoothers. So if you want and END GAME- centric experience this is not the WOW 2.0, you were looking for. How some people cant get THAT, after 3 years is insane. Not really my, biggest problem is the game is actually a single player game with 2 giant lobbies called fleet stations. Mt whole expierence in SWTOR could have been better had they just made it a true single player game. instead they tried to make a single player game with MMO features. The story is great the .implementation of it in they attempted in a MMO was very clunky, way to manny MMO features are missing . the whole game feels as if i was actually just playing massive single player lvls like diablo. I abslooutely know bioware does single player games but in 2008 and 2009 several threads brought up our concerns about TOR and this very issue. Bioware reassured everyone stating the game was a true MMO with massive exploration oportunites , Instancing only happened for your cass story and there would be no sharding as their server technology could handle 100k people lol.They stated they would have a completely unique guild system with all the guild features other MMO's have. That said i knew id be playing a single player expierence BW had absloutely no online titles except for NWN 1 10 years ago. That they would rely heavily on their strength and that was a Story heavy expierence and add the MMO features around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadCuzBad Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet This is what I think too: 1. Player cities with player housing 2. Space combat using Rebel and Imperial ships (Tie fighter, X-Wing fighters) 3. Chat bubbles 4. A non combat proff AKA entertainers (for people who like MMOs without combat) 5. Allow anyone to pick any proff and then after that determine if they are going imperial or rebel with the toon 6. Eliminate the whole entire companion program and then add in crafting only proff 7. Besides harvesting impliment a struture based harvesting system on all planets. 8. Eliminate these zones. Open the whole world map up at one time rather then partitioning it up in 30 differant zones. 9. Allow both imperial and rebels to communicate with eachother all the time. 10. Allow flashpoints and instances to join a que with eachother (like PVP is) at anytime for easy group forming. 11. Server mergers immediatly! Do not wait untill people ragequit. 12. Turn the graphics up. I an not believe the lack of eye candy on a game realeased in 2012. 13. Add about 15 more PVP instances. Same 3 get boring after about 1 week. 14. Add alot more sandboxy things. You should have everything you currently have plus a whole lot more sandboxy things in this game. 15. Start dumping things in this game like crazy. People are leaving already from bordom. Dump, dump and again I say dump stuff in this game like wild fire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ughhhh, MMO vets... How much longer will it take for you to process the following message... This games a story-driven MMO, made by Bioware. That means, its a STORY-BASED videogame, first and an MMO second. All your precious features, that you cant live without, take secondary priority, if ever get realized. And all of them are borrowed from WOW just to facilitate the Story/Narrative Process , witch developers have tied with every possible experience and kept trying to sell. Damn it, im sorry, but it was stated with the very Announcement, what this game was striving to become. Yet some of you either forget, or chose to ignore that. And with future confirmed content and expansions bringing further chapters into the class stories of each character, with a total of 10 acts for each class, the direction does not seem to be changing... Not saying Raiding and PVP will not take, need the necessary improvements, but understand the priority! Anyone who has not lived under a rock for the last 2 decades, knows Bioware does Narrative-Heavy games, even when they switch from RPGs to MMOs and 3rd-Person-Shoothers. So if you want and END GAME- centric experience this is not the WOW 2.0, you were looking for. How some people cant get THAT, after 3 years is insane. They certainly charge you like it's an MMO first and STORY-BASED second... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzhan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Completely agree it is WOW's doing. But BW has made this game even easier. It's 'WOW-light' on so many levels. Probably BW is pointin to steal the ppl playin wow actually (Wow is a piece of cake now) instead to try to attract hardcore players. Casual gamers > Hardcore\veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm not sure I understand. You disagree that there is no day/night, no housing, no pazaak, no multiplayer space combat, etc.... ? Whats the point of a day/night cycle, when it's just a palette swap on the sky and maybe a texture of a moon over the sun? Day and Night is inconsequential when it has no real effect in the world. I could agree with you on day/night cycle, if it were to actually get dark at night in today's games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I played Anarchy, MXO, WOW, LOTRO, WAR, EVE. None were as underwhelming as SWTOR, expecially considering the pricetag and they year it was released. Cmon now you can't say SWTOR runs worse then Anarchy Online, AO was a laggy mess in 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadCuzBad Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Whats the point of a day/night cycle, when it's just a palette swap on the sky and maybe a texture of a moon over the sun? Day and Night is inconsequential when it has no real effect in the world. I could agree with you on day/night cycle, if it were to actually get dark at night in today's games. Remove your day and night cycle. Now your down to only 99 out of the 100 things that were mentioned. The lack of luster this game has is incredible. This game is about 20% of what SWG was and SWG was 9 years old, lol. They came up wayyyyy short on this game. Not a little but ALOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Cmon now you can't say SWTOR runs worse then Anarchy Online, AO was a laggy mess in 2001. LOL all games were a laggy mess in 2001 most people still had dial up and a 486 machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Whats the point of a day/night cycle, when it's just a palette swap on the sky and maybe a texture of a moon over the sun? Day and Night is inconsequential when it has no real effect in the world. I could agree with you on day/night cycle, if it were to actually get dark at night in today's games. If you know where to look, those games are on the way. When people say they want Day/Night cycles, I think of that. Edited February 13, 2012 by Halvos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 LOL all games were a laggy mess in 2001 most people still had dial up and a 486 machine. "January 02, 2001 - Intel announced that it will recall its 1.13 GHz Pentium III processors due to a glitch. Users with these processors should contact their vendors for additional information about the recall." -- http://www.computerhope.com/history/2000.htm I had broadband cable internet since 1997 and haven't owned a 486 since 1994. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ughhhh, MMO vets... How much longer will it take for you to process the following message... This games a story-driven MMO, made by Bioware. That means, its a STORY-BASED videogame, first and an MMO second. All your precious features, that you cant live without, take secondary priority, if ever get realized. And all of them are borrowed from WOW just to facilitate the Story/Narrative Process , witch developers have tied with every possible experience and kept trying to sell. Damn it, im sorry, but it was stated with the very Announcement, what this game was striving to become. Yet some of you either forget, or chose to ignore that. And with future confirmed content and expansions bringing further chapters into the class stories of each character, with a total of 10 acts for each class, the direction does not seem to be changing... Not saying Raiding and PVP will not take, need the necessary improvements, but understand the priority! Anyone who has not lived under a rock for the last 2 decades, knows Bioware does Narrative-Heavy games, even when they switch from RPGs to MMOs and 3rd-Person-Shoothers. So if you want and END GAME- centric experience this is not the WOW 2.0, you were looking for. How some people cant get THAT, after 3 years is insane. So, we are supposed to pay 15 bucks a month to do 8 slightly different versions of the same game because the endgame PvP and PvE are not important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyCooL Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Not really my, biggest problem is the game is actually a single player game with 2 giant lobbies called fleet stations. Mt whole expierence in SWTOR could have been better had they just made it a true single player game. instead they tried to make a single player game with MMO features. The story is great the .implementation of it in they attempted in a MMO was very clunky, way to manny MMO features are missing . the whole game feels as if i was actually just playing massive single player lvls like diablo. I abslooutely know bioware does single player games but in 2008 and 2009 several threads brought up our concerns about TOR and this very issue. Bioware reassured everyone stating the game was a true MMO with massive exploration oportunites , Instancing only happened for your cass story and there would be no sharding as their server technology could handle 100k people lol.They stated they would have a completely unique guild system with all the guild features other MMO's have. That said i knew id be playing a single player expierence BW had absloutely no online titles except for NWN 1 10 years ago. That they would rely heavily on their strength and that was a Story heavy expierence and add the MMO features around that. Yeah, but if it was a SP game, it would have been 1/10 of the content this game currently has... No other character archetypes, with finely written Narrative, and ill viciously combat anyone who says otherwise. Its obvious that almost all classes story structure has been finely tuned by the writers with genuine care.. For the Bioware Community, who love good narrative, re-playable morally driven gameplay(though i wish the "Follow the lightside, or do something mean" for some classes had been restricted further) its really a treasure throwe of re-playability,lore and epic moments, even if the latter sometimes come on schedule. The rest of the content, that isnt where the lion's share your attention or the devs work has been focused, needs improvement, but its in a servile, acceptable (for now condition) Lots of people are having Fun with PVP and FP. Its End Game PVP and HM FPs, where the game falls apart. But its been said , TIME AND TIME again. You supposed to re-roll. You dont like it, but your suppose to.... Its the whole point of Bioware games, its the whole point of DISTINCT SECOND FACTION, of voiced male and female protagonists on class basis, of unique CLASS NARRATIVES. You dont like it. OK. But you SHOULD HAVE KNOW. The signs were there. It was spelled out, for the unperceptive. You knowingly bought a game you wouldn't like and now complain you dont like it. Massive exploration..... does not equal Sand-Box. Massive exploration of Content, Narrative, who the heck who what EA Marketing thought. Doesnt matter, anyone who saw that first gameplay demo in 09, should have known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadCuzBad Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So, we are supposed to pay 15 bucks a month to do 8 slightly different versions of the same game because the endgame PvP and PvE are not important? Very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaelshi Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have a few thoughts that have formed over the last month. I'll start randomly Comparisons to WoW - these were inevitable and are done mostly by a the more "hardcore" mmo players. These are the players who spend more the time raiding for gear, grinding for rep to get gear, grinding dungeons for recipes/regents for gear, grinding dungeons for points to get more gear. The questing in WoW was simple and made no attempt at immersing the player in the universe - so these types of players just right-click, accept, and check what they are looking for - most of the time they don't even know "why" they are looking to collect8 pieces of whatever from the ancient elven ghosts, they just want to know where they are, and how fast they can do it. Drop this people in a game that requires some immersion in the content and it is not surprising they are not happy. To be clear - I am not saying there is anything wrong with this type of play - there isn't and more to the point WoW actually promotes this style of playing - the storylines are not linear at end-game(some appear to be but they are not) - and there is no participation or choosing in the quest-lines. you CAN play the above way and you don't lose/gain anything that you care about. I played that way in WoW myself for a long time. What that set of people should realize is that like it or not, they are minority, even in WoW before LFR most players did not actively participate in raiding - so they were getting their enjoyment out of others parts of the game - these are the people BW is trying to lure away by giving them something they can participate in(the story) and not be feeling like they are missing out on a large portion of the game(coincidentally the portion that Blizzard focus' on the most, endgame raiding) This post is getting long so I'll post other observances later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) If you know where to look, those games are on the way. When people say they want Day/Night cycles, I think of that. The only game right now where day and night matters is Minecraft. It's dark, you cant see without a light. New monsters specifically suited for night hunting lurk in the dark. That link is purty but I'm not interested in Korean games. Edited February 13, 2012 by RocNessMonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyradder Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Dude. its kinda suppose to be a Mini-Game. Not a The Space Experience . Though, yeah, sometimes i wish i was more heavily realized... I agree with everything else... Except im finding the PVP lots of fun and grouping over FP, you can definitely meat some fine folks and have a blast clearing those after/ Heck, it even facilitates trading and certainly helps friends-lists grow. But i agree, when out in the Word soloing, grouping definitely kills immersion. Yeah I know, but to me, that was really short sighted (with regard to the space part of the game). I just hope they expand upon what they have in the future. They could still add a decent space game component if the will exists to do so. It'll never be EvE...that's not what I meant really, but they just have to make it so you can dogfight vs real pilots somehow...surely this is possible and desireable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) To be clear - I am not saying there is anything wrong with this type of play - there isn't and more to the point WoW actually promotes this style of playing - the storylines are not linear at end-game(some appear to be but they are not) - and there is no participation or choosing in the quest-lines. you CAN play the above way and you don't lose/gain anything that you care about. I played that way in WoW myself for a long time. What that set of people should realize is that like it or not, they are minority, even in WoW before LFR most players did not actively participate in raiding - so they were getting their enjoyment out of others parts of the game - these are the people BW is trying to lure away by giving them something they can participate in(the story) and not be feeling like they are missing out on a large portion of the game(coincidentally the portion that Blizzard focus' on the most, endgame raiding) So let me get this straight from your point of view... You think that BW thinks that there is a huge chunk of WoW's population that isn't interested in the endgame grind for gear... so BW offers SWTOR to those people. I get your reasoning... the problem is that SWTOR endgame is EXACTLY like WoW's. And if all they're betting on is the story, then that gets old really fast and is way too quick to breeze through for people to pay 15 dollars a months for years on end. Edited February 13, 2012 by ShonaChaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The only game right now where day and night matters is Minecraft. It's dark, you cant see without a light. New monsters specifically suited for night hunting lurk in the dark. That link is purty but I'm not interested in Korean games. Night and day (when done well) do add an awful lot to the game atmosphere. In early EQ1 night time was plain scary, but more recent games like LOTRO have made night and day cycles work very well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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