Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[ferroz]

absolutely correct

 

The real point is and ofc they will never admit it but the people who want it are basically post bc wow players. They know nothing about community because they have never experienced one before

No, I was an EQ player (long before wow or BC) and I'm in favor of it.

 

Ask what type of player you are if you're in favour of a LFD tool?

Are you a group player, or are you a player in need of gear?

group player. Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Varghjerta]

I'll simply say that the LFD tool in WoW killed the game for myself and many others.

 

People with no business in group content (ie. not group players) began to feel like group content was not only something available to them, but something they are now entitled too.

 

Problem is, they lack any form of teamwork and communication.

 

Players want content to be challenging.

 

When it’s made challenging and PuGs can no longer steamroll through them, the content’s dumbed down so little Jimmy DPS can stand wherever he wants, ignoring AOE, interrupts, CC, and any other mechanic someone playing for ‘the team’ would consider.

 

Tank: Hey Jimmy…… can you CC ‘x’?....... thanks.

Jimmy: CC? Just hold agro tank and shut up.

 

Healer: Hey Jimmy….. want to get out of the AOE so I can keep the tank up?

Jimmy: L2Heal noob.

 

I could write these for hours and are examples of why I no long play WoW. With server only grouping, players like this don’t exist for long. They find themselves on so many ignore lists, group content isn’t an option anymore.

 

It’s a toxic environment of players only out for themselves with no repercussions from a pool of players so large, they’ll never need to worry about being d’bags.

 

Don’t use the LFD tool then? When there are incentives to use it like being ‘auto ported’ to the dungeon or getting badges for rewards, it’s hard not too.

 

Another major problem with this in TOR would be that the game ahs given us our own personal instanced space ships. Could you imagine how dead the world would look if players never needed to leave their ships and just port from one dungeon to the next?

 

Ask what type of player you are if you're in favour of a LFD tool?

Are you a group player, or are you a player in need of gear?

 

Sad part that it is true but even sadder part BW seems listening to those people

Which leaves a nasty image on gaming

[Darkulous]

I'll simply say that the LFD tool in WoW killed the game for myself and many others.

 

 

and it enhanced the game for me and many others.

[Uruare]

I'll simply say that the LFD tool in WoW killed the game for myself and many others.

 

People with no business in group content (ie. not group players) began to feel like group content was not only something available to them, but something they are now entitled too.

 

Problem is, they lack any form of teamwork and communication.

 

Players want content to be challenging.

 

When it’s made challenging and PuGs can no longer steamroll through them, the content’s dumbed down so little Jimmy DPS can stand wherever he wants, ignoring AOE, interrupts, CC, and any other mechanic someone playing for ‘the team’ would consider.

 

Tank: Hey Jimmy…… can you CC ‘x’?....... thanks.

Jimmy: CC? Just hold agro tank and shut up.

 

Healer: Hey Jimmy….. want to get out of the AOE so I can keep the tank up?

Jimmy: L2Heal noob.

 

I could write these for hours and are examples of why I no long play WoW. With server only grouping, players like this don’t exist for long. They find themselves on so many ignore lists, group content isn’t an option anymore.

 

It’s a toxic environment of players only out for themselves with no repercussions from a pool of players so large, they’ll never need to worry about being d’bags.

 

Don’t use the LFD tool then? When there are incentives to use it like being ‘auto ported’ to the dungeon or getting badges for rewards, it’s hard not too.

 

Another major problem with this in TOR would be that the game ahs given us our own personal instanced space ships. Could you imagine how dead the world would look if players never needed to leave their ships and just port from one dungeon to the next?

 

Ask what type of player you are if you're in favour of a LFD tool?

Are you a group player, or are you a player in need of gear?

 

 

 

So, you don't know how to function socially unless you're forced to. Ergo, we should all be forced to function in the way you indicate you must be forced to.

 

Here's what you sound like to me.

 

 

Walk everywhere you go until TOR shuts down please. I don't like driving and I think automobiles killed the need for people to travel in groups to safely travel long distances, and they ruined the community and everybody I know hates vehicles.

 

So everyone should have to walk everywhere.

 

 

To which I say, No.

[gtmach]

I personally support the LFD tool as well but I understand both sides of the issue.

 

Here are my reasons:

 

1) No land to explore - in WoW the LFD tool raised a fuss because people used to actually go out to the instances in the lands and use the summoning stone. With the LFD tool in place, players just sat in cities and AFK'd while waiting for a queue. My counterpoint to this is the fact that in SWTOR, all players have to sit around in a fleet station as is. If the instances were within the planets then I get it but most are up in the stations. So no real difference here as far as exploration or "being part of the world" goes.

 

2) Ease of access - rather than constantly spam chat this tool will automatically place people interested in doing a particular dungeon together. This tool dramatically cut down the time it took to get a group in WoW. The longest you'd experience waiting was around 30 min which is a far cry from a couple of hours it used to take.

 

3) Choice - it's your CHOICE. This is the main point that I feel shatters any arguments against the LFD tool. If you like spamming chat channels for whatever reason or you have friends or a guild that will go with you, feel free to do it that way then. If you hate being grouped up with random people and only prefer people you know, that's fine. The LFD tool doesn't prevent you from finding groups the traditional way. It just provides another option.

[Odincore]

Loot only you get off a boss or out of a boss chest that cannot be ninja'd, cannot be ninja'd. The archaic rolling for loot system fails in these grouping environments. That does not mean these grouping environments are the devil and must be shunned. There would be no ninja looting issue; none, not one, not ever; if they simply gave each player a loot box at the end of the dungeon from which to collect all the gear and junk they won on their own loot table rolls in the engine at the end.

 

if we are going to start talking about changing the loot system all together im in favor of a completely commendation system.

1st boss gives you Premium Coms

2nd boss gives you Prototype Coms

3rd boss gives you Artifact Coms

 

All dropped loot is moved to com vendor and placed under the correct quality of Com.

[Barracudastr]

cross-server lfd breeds idiots who can get away with anything

 

intra-server lfd is fine, people are still accountable

 

Such a one sided view.

 

There are things they can do to stop that but your stuck on other games and are completely biased regardless of it being logical or not.

[Varghjerta]

Such a one sided view.

 

There are things they can do to stop that but your stuck on other games and are completely biased regardless of it being logical or not.

 

But a LFD can never protect a group 3/4 people and the 1/4 people at the time even WOW havent been able to that one

[stem]

So, you don't know how to function socially unless you're forced to. Ergo, we should all be forced to function in the way you indicate you must be forced to.

 

Here's what you sound like to me.

 

 

Walk everywhere you go until TOR shuts down please. I don't like driving and I think automobiles killed the need for people to travel in groups to safely travel long distances, and they ruined the community and everybody I know hates vehicles.

 

So everyone should have to walk everywhere.

 

 

To which I say, No.

 

 

Address the part where the player base using a LFD tool can deal with a-holes?

 

I've yet to see anyone act in TOR the way they do in WoWs LFD x-server waste pool.

 

Why?..... because there are consequences in server only groupings.

 

You want faster gear and you’d compromise the quality of game play to do so.

 

We’ll have to agree to disagree if you can’t see that.

Edited February 13, 2012 by stem

[Barracudastr]

I'll simply say that the LFD tool in WoW killed the game for myself and many others.

 

People with no business in group content (ie. not group players) began to feel like group content was not only something available to them, but something they are now entitled too.

 

Problem is, they lack any form of teamwork and communication.

 

Players want content to be challenging.

 

When it’s made challenging and PuGs can no longer steamroll through them, the content’s dumbed down so little Jimmy DPS can stand wherever he wants, ignoring AOE, interrupts, CC, and any other mechanic someone playing for ‘the team’ would consider.

 

Tank: Hey Jimmy…… can you CC ‘x’?....... thanks.

Jimmy: CC? Just hold agro tank and shut up.

 

Healer: Hey Jimmy….. want to get out of the AOE so I can keep the tank up?

Jimmy: L2Heal noob.

 

I could write these for hours and are examples of why I no long play WoW. With server only grouping, players like this don’t exist for long. They find themselves on so many ignore lists, group content isn’t an option anymore.

 

It’s a toxic environment of players only out for themselves with no repercussions from a pool of players so large, they’ll never need to worry about being d’bags.

 

Don’t use the LFD tool then? When there are incentives to use it like being ‘auto ported’ to the dungeon or getting badges for rewards, it’s hard not too.

 

Another major problem with this in TOR would be that the game ahs given us our own personal instanced space ships. Could you imagine how dead the world would look if players never needed to leave their ships and just port from one dungeon to the next?

 

Ask what type of player you are if you're in favour of a LFD tool?

Are you a group player, or are you a player in need of gear?

 

That still happens....

 

Your still picking random people up when you sit in fleet spamming for a group.

 

I am not sure why you think the quality of random people would be any different lol.

[Mcleavestein]

LOVED the dungeon queue in WoW. It actually got me to play PvE. Until then I had never done PvE endgame. Ended up a fully epiced tank, played the game a whole lot longer than I would have had they not added the Queue.

 

Bottom line is, there are always going to be negatives to anything, in gaming, and in life. But the positives FAR outweigh the negitives when it come to adding an easy to use/quick dungeon queue system. Those who wish to sit around in the fleet for an hour everytime they want to run something, just so they can avoid playing with someone that may or may not "Need" on something they don't actually need, just aren't seeing the big picture. You have a far better chance of getting what they stole if you are doing dungeons twice as fast anyway. And no one is stopping you from running with your friends.

 

The whole "Lazy gamer" argument is just about the worst argument I have ever heard. Gaming isn't about work, it's about fun. If it feels like work, then you need to go do something else. Spamming general chat for an hour does not equal compelling gameplay. (This is coming from a guy who played EQ nearly from launch.)

[Uruare]

if we are going to start talking about changing the loot system all together im in favor of a completely commendation system.

1st boss gives you Premium Coms

2nd boss gives you Prototype Coms

3rd boss gives you Artifact Coms

 

All dropped loot is moved to com vendor and placed under the correct quality of Com.

 

 

Something like that would be a damn sight better than trying to make archaic systems work in largely unmodified states with the current styles and mindsets of gamers, to be sure.

 

In this specific, the developers might be put off by how deterministic that would be. It's cheap, easy padding to stretch subscription time by making things random, and in fairness, any system revision on this would have to meet them somewhere probably north of the middle in a compromise on accepting some degree of the timesink they absolutely want gear acquisition to be part of as well as something we could be content with.

 

It's not that they're evil or bad, mind you. They're in a business to make money, and our time is their money.

 

 

If your idea were slightly modified to be something liiiiike, oh...offering a 100% chance for a green (so you always get at least a little something, even if its vendor trash), a 33% chance for a blue and a 10% chance for a purple in the loot box at the end, with what they are being rolled on by the engine with some weighting towards (but not absolutely guaranteeing) that what you'll get will be potentially useful to your class?

 

Could totally work.

[boobaffet]

Such a one sided view.

 

There are things they can do to stop that but your stuck on other games and are completely biased regardless of it being logical or not.

 

But it does.

 

The only reason im not ninjaing everyone and telling everyone to go **** themselves is because i cant or else i would not find groups.

 

True story.

[ferroz]

But a LFD can never protect a group 3/4 people and the 1/4 people at the time even WOW havent been able to that one

They have exactly the same protection as a non-lfd group does...

[Tersidre]

i hate having to spend all of my in game time in the fleet....

[Barracudastr]

Address the part where the player base using a LDF tool can deal with a-holes?

 

I've yet to see anyone act in TOR the way they do in WoWs LFD x-server waste pool.

 

Why?..... because there are consequences in server only groupings.

 

You want faster gear and you’d compromise the quality of game play to do so.

 

We’ll have to agree to disagree if you can’t see that.

 

Your also dealing with millions of people in wow.

 

More people = more bad apples its a simple concept.

 

I have ran into plenty have dbags on my server. I even had one ninja loot then start cussing at the group for saying something... follow by " go ahead and kick me good luck finishing your FP noobs"

 

Oh yes LFD tool would totally make people *****s.... no it wouldn't they are already there and they already do things like that.

 

But the difference is we are more affected by it he was right if we kicked him replacing him in a half done FP wasn't going to happen. It took me 2 hours to get the group together and it was a complete waste.

 

Now had there been a LFD tool I could have just vote kicked him out and qued us another person in to finish out the run.

 

When putting groups together takes longer then the actual content theres a problem.

 

Whne someone can be a dbag becuase they know you wont kick because you cant get anyone else to come you know theres a problem.

 

LFD will not make the community any different. Its a completely factless opinion based on your wow experience which btw was not my experience I made more friends using wows LFD then I did any other way.

[Steww]

I cancelled my sub, not directly because there is no LFD tool, but because at lvl 50 I only have a few choices. Sure I can go to Ilum or Belsavis to knock out dailies to get more credits that I don't need. I can pvp in the warzones that are already starting to get stale and boring. I legitimately enjoy the challenge of Hard Mode flash points but I spend sometimes over an hour just to find a group, and then if we wipe there is somebody who rage quits because it's taking too long. I'm a repub on a sith favored server, and people who already have what they need out of the flash points simply don't run them. At the very least an in server LFD tool would be welcome, this way people don't have to sit in fleet to find a group. If you have a global dungeon finder somebody can be on an alt and see that there is a group that needs a healer to run False Emp, so they log on their main and join the group.

 

Sitting around fleet spamming general chat is not what I consider fun, and currently there isn't a more efficient way of finding a group.

[harpuax]

i hate having to spend all of my in game time in the fleet....

 

Global LFG channel solves that and most servers have made one. You don't need a LFG tool to fix THAT issue. It may help other issues but this one is solved.

[terminova]

LOVED the dungeon queue in WoW. It actually got me to play PvE. Until then I had never done PvE endgame. Ended up a fully epiced tank, played the game a whole lot longer than I would have had they not added the Queue.

 

Bottom line is, there are always going to be negatives to anything, in gaming, and in life. But the positives FAR outweigh the negitives when it come to adding an easy to use/quick dungeon queue system. Those who wish to sit around in the fleet for an hour everytime they want to run something, just so they can avoid playing with someone that may or may not "Need" on something they don't actually need, just aren't seeing the big picture. You have a far better chance of getting what they stole if you are doing dungeons twice as fast anyway. And no one is stopping you from running with your friends.

 

The whole "Lazy gamer" argument is just about the worst argument I have ever heard. Gaming isn't about work, it's about fun. If it feels like work, then you need to go do something else. Spamming general chat for an hour does not equal compelling gameplay. (This is coming from a guy who played EQ nearly from launch.)

 

Tell that to the DPS who have to sit for an hour anyway.

[MajikMyst]

That still happens....

 

Your still picking random people up when you sit in fleet spamming for a group.

 

I am not sure why you think the quality of random people would be any different lol.

 

No actually your not.. Do gear checks.. Not to mention something you can't do with an LFG system.. You can talk to them.. Talking in an MMO.. Amazing..

 

So no.. If you are picking up random people, then the person that is putting the group together is at fault.. I never picked up random people..

 

Those are two things that you can't do with an LFG system.. Which is why I didn't use the one in WOW and if implemted here.. I won't use it here.. My game time isn't going to be spent dealing with ninja looters from another server or carrying someone so they can get free loots off of my skill and labor.. They want a spot in my run, they are going to earn it..

[Varghjerta]

They have exactly the same protection as a non-lfd group does...

Basicly invites gets unkickable?

[Calsidian]

Your solution isn't a solution to the problem. Low population servers are still screwed. A server-only tool like that would only benefit the few popular and active servers.

 

Until they start merging and/or allowing free transfers off dead realms, a cross-server tool is the only way to give all players access to the content (at least flashpoints). A looking for operation tool would be nice as well, since normal mode ops are already pug-friendly.

 

Low population servers may not really be screwed, this is conjecture. The issue with forming a group on a low population server stems from several sources. Not only is there the obvious issue with the lower population, but also:

 

- The game is new enough so that not everyone has a level 50 yet.

- Players are questing, PvPing, or are outside of the fleet so they don't hear LFG chatter because they don't want to stand around trying to form a group.

 

Time will soon eleviate the first problem, and a server LFG tool would deal with the second. I believe the second issue is significant enough that eliminating it would improve things greatly. But this is also conjecture.

 

What I would prefer is for BW to implement the server only LFG first (along with low pop server mergers), then if there is still an overwhelming need for cross server, fine. I'm not opposed to the idea of being able to form groups faster, I would just rather other avenues are explored before resorting to one which, from my personal experience, is detrimental to the game.

[Odincore]

Something like that would be a damn sight better than trying to make archaic systems work in largely unmodified states with the current styles and mindsets of gamers, to be sure.

 

In this specific, the developers might be put off by how deterministic that would be. It's cheap, easy padding to stretch subscription time by making things random, and in fairness, any system revision on this would have to meet them somewhere probably north of the middle in a compromise on accepting some degree of the timesink they absolutely want gear acquisition to be part of as well as something we could be content with.

 

It's not that they're evil or bad, mind you. They're in a business to make money, and our time is their money.

 

 

If your idea were slightly modified to be something liiiiike, oh...offering a 100% chance for a green (so you always get at least a little something, even if its vendor trash), a 33% chance for a blue and a 10% chance for a purple in the loot box at the end, with what they are being rolled on by the engine with some weighting towards (but not absolutely guaranteeing) that what you'll get will be potentially useful to your class?

 

Could totally work.

 

Controlling the amount of coms it takes to buy a single item could work as well to pad the time it takes.

 

I'm just not a huge fan of RNG in any form. I'm just saying there are ways they could pad the numbers so that it does take time.

[harpuax]

Sitting around fleet spamming general chat is not what I consider fun, and currently there isn't a more efficient way of finding a group.

 

There isn't? you can't ask your friends or guild members? Heck I just hold my push to talk button and say "hey who wants to run something?" and within seconds I have a group. Just because there are more efficient methods you are not willing to try doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Barracudastr]

No actually your not.. Do gear checks.. Not to mention something you can't do with an LFG system.. You can talk to them.. Talking in an MMO.. Amazing..

 

So no.. If you are picking up random people, then the person that is putting the group together is at fault.. I never picked up random people..

 

Those are two things that you can't do with an LFG system.. Which is why I didn't use the one in WOW and if implemted here.. I won't use it here.. My game time isn't going to be spent dealing with ninja looters from another server or carrying someone so they can get free loots off of my skill and labor.. They want a spot in my run, they are going to earn it..

 

Ummm right.

 

LFM Hammerstation.....

 

xxxx whispers: invite

 

*invites*

 

Hey

Sup

 

LFM Hammerstation......

 

repeat process for 2 hours till group is full.

 

Okay we are there everyone ready? Yup im good.

 

*kill stuff*

 

Okay everyone know boss right?

 

Yup x3

 

Kill boss

 

*take loots*

 

Good run thanks

bye

bye

cya

 

You tell me how that would be any different using LFD lmao.

 

Because even when I do try to strike up a convo in a FP 99% of the time no one even types back.

 

People are there to run the content get their exp and loot and move on its that simple.

 

And you have no proof of anything that says otherwise.