Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[ferroz]

Let me use this to make it abit simplier you have a guild consisting of 30 persons .

You join a group and you get mistreated so you say damn that <players >is an idiot and a ninja 20 people of 30 puts him on ignore .

But now take those twenty having the same experience the same day in a X-Server LFD so you mean the whole guild should blacklist him while knowing he will just be able doing the same tomorrow withoutr a problem ?

I don't see a difference bewteen xserver and same server for this example.

 

same server

your guild puts that person on ignore; noone in your guild plays with him. He goes on his merry way, with the next group of suckers

 

xserver

your guild puts that person on ignore; noone in your guild plays with him. He goes on his merry way, with the next group of suckers

 

 

 

But as LFD is built up and protecting you cant get both groups and single persons protected againg abuse

Again, how is this any different than single server?

 

and were you going to offer an object reason against lfd?

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Jswizzle]

It works in WOW, why shouldn't it also work here?

 

I didn't say it wouldn't work. I said it would probably be frustrating. Any time you group with random people you don't know what you are getting.

[ferroz]

I didn't say it wouldn't work. I said it would probably be frustrating. Any time you group with random people you don't know what you are getting.

that's actually one of the things I really like about pugging.

[Uruare]

Worthless to you, perhaps. My response wasn't meant to conform to any but my own sentiment. I think it's good for opposing views to be aired so folks know they are out there.

 

No, not just worthless to me; worthless to the address of the topic. Should we have ice cream or should we not?

 

You don't like ice cream. That is unarguably relevant to you. To -you-. To me? It is relevant insofar as my interest in your position and actually understanding it is concerned, and to that end, it was, in fact, noted.

 

To the topic? You don't like ice cream. This in no way, shape or form provides a reasoned basis upon which any outcome -except for you- could possibly be leveraged, justified, explained or represented.

 

 

 

 

 

I do not grind for gear myself, and park my toons at 50 until the next expansion ups the level. So, my viewpoint is not going to be the same as yours. I am all about the journey. That is where I speak from - not end game.

 

I spoke in analysis of the system itself, not my personal position. My personal position is irrelevant; for the record, I'd love to be all about the journey myself.

 

I've run a lot of tabletop games across numerous systems in my life. Every single one has been a heavy roleplay and story-driven experience. I very much prefer to be about 'the journey'.

 

Here? 1-49, that is entirely acceptable; they made the journey in the 1-49 game a generally enjoyable reward, for which I've applauded them elsewhere.

 

My viewpoint, my preferences, yours and everyone else's upon that become quite irrelevant at 50, however.

 

You can have the 50 game in SWTOR any way you like it, so long as the way you like it happens to be grinding gear.

 

Henry Ford once said that you could buy a Model T in any color you wanted, so long as that color was black. Same sentiment here.

 

That is not, in fact, a criticism of your position. Rather, it is a statement to the nature of the systems in play; they are not about the journey.

 

That you have reconciled yourself with a method of adaptation to this that pleases you is good. For you, that is good.

 

We do, in fact, differ upon our methods of adaptation. Me, I can play the gear grind game happily enough. Just don't make me waste my time playing High School High Society to do it.

 

They want me to chase the gear, fine, I can have fun with dungeons and raids, just don't make me do a bunch of garbage that is mere time-wasting padding to do them.

 

In short, I'll wash clothes, but if you expect me to drag them to the river and wash them on a rock, I've got news for you Pocohontas; I can wash clothes with a washing machine over there in that game, over there in that other game, over yonder in those two games down the way and, look there, see those games coming up the hill? In those too.

 

So goes -my- feeling on that, for clarification's sake.

 

 

For me, nothing said by any contributor is without value. Nothing. We're all playing "our" game here, and I think it best to always keep that in mind. You raise legitimate concerns for end-gamers. Yes, it would, I suppose, be all about the gear to you. What else is left?

 

I didn't dictate the nature of the system. I merely pointed at it; it is, in fact, what it is, and what it is is exactly what I said.

 

Anybody that designs such a system expecting anything other than that people will want to use such a system in the most time-efficient and expedient manners possible is quite silly.

 

It's like building highways for cars and expecting that people will be content riding horses on them. That is simply not the case. They want us to gear grind. If we must gear grind, we want the tools in common existence throughout the gaming industry's better MMO offerings to expedite the most annoying and time-wasting variables out of the matter.

 

There's really not much more to it than that.

 

As to your comment of nothing anybody says being of no value...I'd very tentatively agree with that in the loosest definition of 'value'. I do not regard all opinions as being equal in worth or merit to the address of a given topic, though in a broader consideration, they might be.

 

Its wholly context dependant, in my thinking.

 

 

 

Me? I roll another alt (grin). By the time all of my toons hit 50, one would hope we'll see the inevitable cap raise. Then, my journey continues, and your race to end game.

 

And that's a perfectly fine method of adaptation to the model the designers employed.

 

Me, personally, I tend to roll a lot of alts as well. It's very disappointing that if I want to advance my 50's through the gear grind, I have to, in the context of my time availabilities, waste a lot of that time essentially bothering people, and there is no guarantee at all that I'll get to do what I wanted to do in the game I'm paying the same sub fee as everyone else to play.

 

I didn't want to spend two hours some days back trying, via all the means available to us, to get a hardmode team together. I finally got a team together, and by the time I did, it was almost time for me to log off.

 

Anything likeable about that very common occurrence to you?

[Gimixes]

Ofc it works in Wow. But look what kind of headache it blizz gives...

 

thousand topics about:

Kick abuse

Kick function messed up because like "cant kick player next 4 hrs"

afk'ing people

rude people

ninjaing people

roll system

 

List goes on and on on Wow forums..

Why would we ever want that..if LFD comes, please only server and NOT x-server

[Darkulous]

[Grandpa voice]

 

Listen here you whipper snappers! Back in my day we walked to our instance - butt-naked in a blizzard! We didn't have that vent-thingy-ma-doodle either! We typed our messages until our fingers bled and our bones showed! It took us weeks for our games to download and we LOVED IT! It gave us time to be social! Something you pansies need a lesson in!

 

[/grandpa voice]

 

This is not a debate between hardcores and casuals. It's a fight between different generations of gamers.

[Varghjerta]

I don't see a difference bewteen xserver and same server for this example.

 

same server

your guild puts that person on ignore; noone in your guild plays with him. He goes on his merry way, with the next group of suckers

 

xserver

your guild puts that person on ignore; noone in your guild plays with him. He goes on his merry way, with the next group of suckers

 

 

 

Again, how is this any different than single server?

 

and were you going to offer an object reason against lfd?

Aint that easy

Just take WoW following that (30 ignore)

That would basicly probably mean 30 bad experience then.

And still those people could do the same without thinking about it.

 

BUT on a single server he will find it harder and harder == Being a tool will in a mount of time get you screaming for LFD because no one want's to play for you.

[quaesitor]

I agree with the OP on all counts. Lack of LFD is what caused me to unsubscribe (account active until the 18th).

 

People who don't want LFD are just insanely, stupidly selfish. I would guess almost none of them have tried to form groups on Republic side on a low-population server where you stand around doing nothing but spamming general and harassing people.

 

There are flashpoints I never even got to see because it was too difficult to find groups for them.

 

If your players cannot easily reach your content, you are doing it wrong - THE END.

 

If this gets fixed, I may resub, but I'm not going to pay a monthly fee to stand around.

[Megadoomer]

I agree with the OP on all counts. Lack of LFD is what caused me to unsubscribe (account active until the 18th).

 

People who don't want LFD are just insanely, stupidly selfish. I would guess almost none of them have tried to form groups on Republic side on a low-population server where you stand around doing nothing but spamming general and harassing people.

 

There are flashpoints I never even got to see because it was too difficult to find groups for them.

 

If your players cannot easily reach your content, you are doing it wrong - THE END.

 

If this gets fixed, I may resub, but I'm not going to pay a monthly fee to stand around.

 

^This^

[Varghjerta]

Ofc it works in Wow. But look what kind of headache it blizz gives...

 

thousand topics about:

Kick abuse

Kick function messed up because like "cant kick player next 4 hrs"

afk'ing people

rude people

ninjaing people

roll system

 

List goes on and on on Wow forums..

Why would we ever want that..if LFD comes, please only server and NOT x-server

 

This gets always by the pro LFD people unanswered.

 

At the time i dont know if WOW succeded in just that (early cata it was a laugh still)

 

But it boils doen to Groups vs solo

 

As of now Solo is promoted in wow "early cata) be an a-hole and prosper

but this game are going the same way i am sad to say

[DarthPAWS]

I agree with the OP on all counts. Lack of LFD is what caused me to unsubscribe (account active until the 18th).

 

People who don't want LFD are just insanely, stupidly selfish. I would guess almost none of them have tried to form groups on Republic side on a low-population server where you stand around doing nothing but spamming general and harassing people.

 

There are flashpoints I never even got to see because it was too difficult to find groups for them.

 

If your players cannot easily reach your content, you are doing it wrong - THE END.

 

If this gets fixed, I may resub, but I'm not going to pay a monthly fee to stand around.

 

if it gets put in i will stop playing and paying . so its really is a no win for bioware people will quit with it and will quit without it , bioware has to pick which way they can make the most money at .

 

 

in the end that is what will make the choice if its in the game or not. the money.

 

its all money not what you me or that guy over there wants or thinks.

Edited February 13, 2012 by DarthPAWS

[Voidence]

What Bioware could do since day one, is to add two systems to prevent any lack of accountability and ninja looting:

 

1. Internal Player behavior points system, much like the one used on driver licenses in some countries and US states. This way reported or kicked players will have less to no chances to group up with the same people again, eventually preventing them from doing any group Flashpoint/Warzone content until their restrictions are lifted.

 

2. Proper gear looting restrictions based on item level, queued role, spec, stats, type of armor, selected companion (yellow in Crew Skills) in case no one needs the gear and a companion could use it.

 

Or you could meet those of us who dont want this in game half way, You know make the LFD server only. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks that the cross server stuff didnt have a negitive effect on the community is obv hiding under a rock and has NO idea what they are talking about. I will also say that anyone who thinks its the only reason the community got bad, also has no idea about what it did.

 

 

I am all for LFD server only. If thats not good enough then w/e its their game. But if they ever add cross server LFD I'm out.

[oursacrifice]

Or you could meet those of us who dont want this in game half way, You know make the LFD server only. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks that the cross server stuff didnt have a negitive effect on the community is obv hiding under a rock and has NO idea what they are talking about. I will also say that anyone who thinks its the only reason the community got bad, also has no idea about what it did.

 

 

I am all for LFD server only. If thats not good enough then w/e its their game. But if they ever add cross server LFD I'm out.

 

Your solution isn't a solution to the problem. Low population servers are still screwed. A server-only tool like that would only benefit the few popular and active servers.

 

Until they start merging and/or allowing free transfers off dead realms, a cross-server tool is the only way to give all players access to the content (at least flashpoints). A looking for operation tool would be nice as well, since normal mode ops are already pug-friendly.

[Voidence]

Thing is, these people will be self-entitled either way. A person who 'plays by the rules' doesn't suddenly go ninja and steal everything he can get his hands on.

 

Just like anyone who would do that but wont right now because they dont want bad rep on their server. With Cross server LFD these ppl wouldnt fear being black listed, and they would ninja, be rude, yadda yadda yadda. The fact that there is NO LFD is what is keeping some people in check. Like i said server only LFD is awsome and I'm fine with that. Cross server = Hell no. And if it does get added, again I'm out. I will NOT deal with the same drama/whining/bs i did in WoW because of everyone wanting insta.. well insta everything.

[terminova]

[Grandpa voice]

 

Listen here you whipper snappers! Back in my day we walked to our instance - butt-naked in a blizzard! We didn't have that vent-thingy-ma-doodle either! We typed our messages until our fingers bled and our bones showed! It took us weeks for our games to download and we LOVED IT! It gave us time to be social! Something you pansies need a lesson in!

 

[/grandpa voice]

 

This is not a debate between hardcores and casuals. It's a fight between different generations of gamers.

 

lol, no it's not. It's between those who've used cross server LFD systems and hated it and those who didn't. It's same generation gamers.

[ferroz]

[Grandpa voice]

 

Listen here you whipper snappers! Back in my day we walked to our instance - butt-naked in a blizzard! We didn't have that vent-thingy-ma-doodle either! We typed our messages until our fingers bled and our bones showed! It took us weeks for our games to download and we LOVED IT! It gave us time to be social! Something you pansies need a lesson in!

 

[/grandpa voice]

 

This is not a debate between hardcores and casuals. It's a fight between different generations of gamers.

No, I was playing computer games back in the 80s (GORF on a vic20 FTW). I played EQ back in late 2000 (or early 2001).

 

So it's not some sort of clear cut generational thing.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Varghjerta]

No, I was playing computer games back in the 80s (GORF FTW). I played EQ back in late 2000 (or early 2001).

 

So it's not some sort of clear cut generational thing.

 

On what machines and what games ?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Varghjerta

[mangarrage]

A favorite phrase out of EQ comes to mind. "You ruined your lands. You will not ruin ours."

 

I don't have to come up with theories. I watched what happened with dungeon queues in Rift. People stayed in the main city and simply waited. Group quality in pickups went directly to hell because the mindset was all about getting the gear and screw the content. I saw this happen. I left.

 

I don't want to see such behavior encouraged here any more than it may already be. Some things should involve effort - even if it is just the minimal effort of watching your text screen and then getting to the instance. Makes it more real for me.

 

I guess "real" is subjective these days, sigh.

 

absolutely correct

 

The real point is and ofc they will never admit it but the people who want it are basically post bc wow players. They know nothing about community because they have never experienced one before

These people want everything now and everything easier and convenient and that is simple fact

Looking over the amount of pages I do applaud those people who actually post facts and experiences with the disaster the lfd does to games ala rift

I do feel for low pop people no question about it. I think their situation sucks, but server mergers are much better for the game and to alleiviate lack of finding groups then a forced garbage tool.

 

I also admit they need to do something to assist people in finding groups but again the xserver tool is not the answer

[Uruare]

Ofc it works in Wow. But look what kind of headache it blizz gives...

 

thousand topics about:

 

Kick abuse

 

It'd depend entirely on how they implement such functions here. Blizzard made some mistakes with it. Others could learn from those mistakes and not repeat them, or, in fact, come up with different systems for such altogether.

 

 

Kick function messed up because like "cant kick player next 4 hrs"

 

And there we have one of Blizzard's mistakes with their address of that.

 

afk'ing people

 

An appropriately intelligent vote kick system could well allow players on a team to boot such tosspots from their PVE or PVP teams and let someone else queue'd pop in.

 

rude people

 

Rude people will be addressed effectively when the sun engulfs the planet in its waning epochs of life. Not before, and not by anything less.

 

ninjaing people

 

Loot only you get off a boss or out of a boss chest that cannot be ninja'd, cannot be ninja'd. The archaic rolling for loot system fails in these grouping environments. That does not mean these grouping environments are the devil and must be shunned. There would be no ninja looting issue; none, not one, not ever; if they simply gave each player a loot box at the end of the dungeon from which to collect all the gear and junk they won on their own loot table rolls in the engine at the end.

 

roll system

 

Needless if the loot distribution system, such as I briefly described above, isn't trying to cling to the nostalgia of 1980 and rolling for loot in a Dungeons and Dragons game. Clinging to such ornaments is part of why these games across the industry frequently keep having so many problems; they often refuse to do away with this exact 'roll on the loot' rubbish.

 

List goes on and on on Wow forums..

 

In both directions at that. Not just 'against'.

 

Why would we ever want that..if LFD comes, please only server and NOT x-server

 

Because it does not cause the problems you think it causes; people were rude before MMO's even existed. People were mean before being fast with an abbacus was a marketable skill. Opportunistic thievery is quite possibly as old a tendency amongst humans and other primates as having opposable thumbs and even rudimentarily higher cognitive functions goes.

 

Do not blame LFG tools for people being rude, mean and selfishly opportunistic. It's really inane and absolutely, horribly wrong. The worst that can be said; the -worst- that can be rightfully attributed to LFG tools; is that they expose more people to more people with greater frequency, and some of those people will be rude, mean and/or selfishly opportunistic.

 

News at Nine: Those people were almost certainly rude, mean and/or selfishly opportunistic at any convenient opportunity prior. Not having LFG tools isn't going to change that; they'll just, at best, be less apparent to you.

 

 

 

 

Comments in red.

[Voidence]

Your solution isn't a solution to the problem. Low population servers are still screwed. A server-only tool like that would only benefit the few popular and active servers.

 

Until they start merging and/or allowing free transfers off dead realms, a cross-server tool is the only way to give all players access to the content (at least flashpoints). A looking for operation tool would be nice as well, since normal mode ops are already pug-friendly.

 

I see what you mean, But remember if there was a LFD tool (server only) I think people would be able to find groups, the reason people cant find groups on low pop servers is because some of the players are off doing dailys and such. With a LFD server only those ppl who are not on the fleet can que while doing the dailys. Tbh I dont think the low pop servers would really be lacking. Well most anyhow.

 

And off topic but anyone asking for merging servers should also ask themselves

 

1. What if someone has my name already?

2. What if other servers then get too populated and we are back to que times(We already seen the qq over this)

3. What if you and your guild dont wanna go to the same server?

 

Anyhow, sorry its off topic, I just am kind sick of hearing about merging. Its kinda like the whole thing at Early Access, People whined they just wanted to get the E-mail that they could play even if they sat in que for 2 hours... Guess what? These same ppl got the E-mail and allowed in and sat in que.. Then COMPLAINED about the ques.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Again sorry for the rant

Edited February 13, 2012 by Voidence

[Dendore]

There already is a LFD tool... it's through the /who window. It just doesn't hand you everything on a silver platter, and it shouldn't. I do not support anything resembling the system in wow. I do support improvements to the /who window though. That's all that's really needed.

[ferroz]

On what machines and what games

I specifically mention GORF; it's in the text that you quoted. I even went back and edited in the "on a vic20" part. I know I had a centipede ripoff... Millipede? A weird 3 blind mice game iirc. It's been a while.

 

later on there was the amstrad, and other IBM pc clones. Siera games ( various <X> quest series). Lots of shareware stuff: Commander keen and the like.

 

BBS door games, lotr and tradewars and such.

[Varghjerta]

Actually will do test ,

 

Say something an instance a commando 43 healer should do

and i will log in and do a group

Not logged in BTW now

Edited February 13, 2012 by Varghjerta

[boobaffet]

it stinks

[stem]

I'll simply say that the LFD tool in WoW killed the game for myself and many others.

 

People with no business in group content (ie. not group players) began to feel like group content was not only something available to them, but something they are now entitled too.

 

Problem is, they lack any form of teamwork and communication.

 

Players want content to be challenging.

 

When it’s made challenging and PuGs can no longer steamroll through them, the content’s dumbed down so little Jimmy DPS can stand wherever he wants, ignoring AOE, interrupts, CC, and any other mechanic someone playing for ‘the team’ would consider.

 

Tank: Hey Jimmy…… can you CC ‘x’?....... thanks.

Jimmy: CC? Just hold agro tank and shut up.

 

Healer: Hey Jimmy….. want to get out of the AOE so I can keep the tank up?

Jimmy: L2Heal noob.

 

I could write these for hours and are examples of why I no long play WoW. With server only grouping, players like this don’t exist for long. They find themselves on so many ignore lists, group content isn’t an option anymore.

 

It’s a toxic environment of players only out for themselves with no repercussions from a pool of players so large, they’ll never need to worry about being d’bags.

 

Don’t use the LFD tool then? When there are incentives to use it like being ‘auto ported’ to the dungeon or getting badges for rewards, it’s hard not too.

 

Another major problem with this in TOR would be that the game ahs given us our own personal instanced space ships. Could you imagine how dead the world would look if players never needed to leave their ships and just port from one dungeon to the next?

 

Ask what type of player you are if you're in favour of a LFD tool?

Are you a group player, or are you a player in need of gear?