No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[CptBrit]

I remember the pre LFG days of WoW (I started playing at release). Sitting in ironforge or Orgrimmar for HOURS waiting for that last person to fill the party. This was if you played at off hours.

 

Those of you saying that the LFG killed the community? In my experience it was strengthened. I would be able to grab three or four of my bestest WoW friends, we'd troll the guild for the rest and if nothing, bam, in the queue.

 

I left the game before LFR was implemented, so I can't speak of that

 

Of course, the LFG wasn't all roses and cupcakes, but for people with limited gametime and who were a tank or healer (Or a DPS with a friend who was a tank or healer) it was the best thing to happen.

 

When they added RealID I was a little concerned, but when they tied Real ID to LFG that was wonderful. Finally I could play with my friends who had moved servers or were on the server I moved from.

 

Before LFG: There were still jerks, but you had to put up with them

After LFG: Kick the jerks and move on. We even kicked a tank and healer combo who thought they were invincible because they were the healer and tank.

 

For those of you with brimming friends lists, or who have someone who levels with them all the time. Feel free to not use this. For people like me who have limited or weird gametime and whose guildies are different levels, this will help a ton.

 

I am on a high population server. We'll have 120+ people on the fleet at any time and still have trouble finding that last person to fill a spot.

 

I too remember the pre-LFG days, I also remember the nightmare of trying to find people for UBRS etc. Twas a Nightmare.

 

Then LFG tool came out and it was amazing popping instances just about instantly if you already had a tank.

 

Then came the idiots and ninjas, yea they had been a problem before, but it was less common because they would be blacklisted/ignored by people and so would find it harder to get a group. I.E in the end they are only hurting themselves.

 

Now with Cross-Realm LFG, they didn't have to care even if they only ninja'ed certain stuff or were just lame as hell it didn't matter they'd be able to get another group.

 

Also you say there is only 120 on the fleet well i'm on a heavy pop server too (It is most of peak time anyway) and imagine if that 120 was turned into 300+ because it applied to all the planets, also a Realm only LFG would take away people having to stare at General and thus they wouldn't have to camp the fleet and could quest... Kinda like how WoW's LFG works. Yea it might not pop quite as fast as WoWs but I think it would be a lot better than opening up to the nobs of the SW:TOR servers.

[Ethern]

Simple FACT:

If you want to form groups only with people from your own server, while cross-server capabilities are in place, the pool of available players will be smaller, since every player using cross-server won't be in your own pool. Effectively, to get things done, you'll probably end up looking cross-server anyway.

I don't see that as an issue at all. Particularly when such feature is aimed at people who cannot rely on an extensive guild/friend list. Claming that the pool comes smaller for people already self-sufficient has zero value, and simply false.

 

Another simple FACT:

Servers are grouped with cross-server systems. Not all servers are connected together. They are only connected to other servers in their group. So server X from group A will connect to server Y from group A, but it will NOT be connected to server Z from group B.

What makes you think that Bioware will design their tool that way? What is the basis and value of such speculation? How can you label that as "fact"?

 

 

And that's basically all I'd suggest: make some groups of server cross-server, make other groups of servers specifically non-cross-server. Allow people 1 free transfer upon implementation of cross-server, either to a cross-server group, or away from a cross-server group.

 

The technical difference between the two groups wouldn't have to be more than a setting in some INI file on the server.

 

Funny thing is, so far, the pro-cross server crowd is actually against this compromise, even though they would practically get what they want. They'd rather see the people who don't want cross-server mechanics leave the game. Which makes you wonder, whether their interests are actually to improve the game, or trying to ruin the game by driving subscribers away.

That's totally wrong. Throughout all the threads on this topics, there are several compromises which emerged. To name a few:

- give two options for the LFG tool: one server wide - one cross server

- apply a more strict policy on item - rolling

- use the social and the legacy system to convey reputation cross realm

- allow cross server friend and black lists

- etc.

 

 

 

Great post, this is why your ranked 22nd in Cross Server discussion

What's going on with that ranking Touchbass ?

[IIII-IIII-IIII]

I don't see that as an issue at all. Particularly when such feature is aimed at people who cannot rely on an extensive guild/friend list. Claming that the pool comes smaller for people already self-sufficient has zero value, and simply false.

 

What makes you think that Bioware will design their tool that way? What is the basis and value of such speculation? How can you label that as "fact"?

 

 

 

That's totally wrong. Throughout all the threads on this topics, there are several compromises which emerged. To name a few:

- give two options for the LFG tool: one server wide - one cross server

- apply a more strict policy on item - rolling

- use the social and the legacy system to convey reputation cross realm

- allow cross server friend and black lists

- etc.

 

 

 

What's going on with that ranking Touchbass ?

Fantastic suggestions/post.

[GalacticKegger]

Being able to be around when enough people that want to do the same thing as you are also around? That can indeed, and does indeed, stymie a lot of efforts on the parts of...oh, I'll go out on a limb and say 'Quite a few'.

There is a solid LFG tool already, it's just not sexy. It can post a player or group in LFG either locally or server-wide (your option), and the party leader simply has to click your name in the interface to invite you. While in the game's LFG you can quest, farm, put stuff up on the GTN, send the meatheads out on crafting missions ... just like WoW. Oh wait, WoW doesn't have meatheads or crafting missions.

 

Anyway, when you're ready simply click your fleet pass (would be nice if it only had a 1-hour cd), take an elevator and you're there. The hardest part? There's a comments field that needs to be filled in just like one would type into general chat, but it only has to be done once (no spamming needed) and parses specific terms accurately. The system flat out works, it's just not 2-click simple yet.

 

Here's an overview of how it works and I apologize for the buzzkill:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224095

Edited February 20, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[acheros]

How can you label that as "fact"?

 

Labeling it "blind speculation with no basis in reality" won't help his cause as much.

[Ganelon]

There is a solid LFG tool already, it's just not sexy.

 

I'm sorry, but a tool that does not fulfill it's intended function can not be called 'solid'.

 

The fact is, you are less likely to get a group if you rely on the LFG interface rather than the LFG chat. Heck, I'd bet you're more likely to get a group if you just stand by the instance portal and say 'invite' every time you see another player pass by.

 

The purpose of the LFG tool is, as the name says, to help you find a group. If it doesn't do that, for whatever reason, then the tool is a failure.

 

It doesn't matter that your tool is the most beautifully designed piece of software ever to run on a computer (which by the way is very far from the truth in the case of the LFG tool we have), if your users don't use it then the tool simply does not work.

 

And the tragic thing is, we all already knew what the most efficient way to organize groups was. Cross-server, automated queuing system. We all saw the evolution of the LFG system in WoW, and we all knew that the only version that significantly increased the number of groups being former was the cross-server one.

 

From my point of view, the cross-server tool had zero impact on the community in WoW. Did I see more obnoxious people, ninja looters and players who didn't say a word during the entire instance run? Sure I did! But the only reason for that was that I was getting considerably more groups than before, not because people turned into idiots the second they opened the LFG interface.

 

More, the purpose of a LFG tool is not to build community, it is to get you into groups. Building a community is your responsibility, not the tool's.

[harpuax]

There is a solid LFG tool already, it's just not sexy. It can post a player or group in LFG either locally or server-wide (your option), and the party leader simply has to click your name in the interface to invite you. While in the game's LFG you can quest, farm, put stuff up on the GTN, send the meatheads out on crafting missions ... just like WoW. Oh wait, WoW doesn't have meatheads or crafting missions.

 

Anyway, when you're ready simply click your fleet pass (would be nice if it only had a 1-hour cd), take an elevator and you're there. The hardest part? There's a comments field that needs to be filled in just like one would type into general chat, but it only has to be done once (no spamming needed) and parses specific terms accurately. The system flat out works, it's just not 2-click simple yet.

 

Here's an overview of how it works and I apologize for the buzzkill:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224095

 

This issue is that it isn't dumbed down enough for the masses to figure out. It needs to be 1 click insta flashpoint or people won't use it. Anything more is too much for most to handle.

[Mofotrey]

i actually really liked that system back when they used it.

 

Me too. It enabled you to see who wanted to run a dungeon without having to spam general or trade over and over again. The problem is that most people are too lazy to send someone a message saying, "Want to DPS WC?". For 5 seconds of your life, you can eliminate the need for a massive, automatic cross-server LFG.

[gryhmr]

Stop with this. Give me cross server LFG and Warzones please and thanks.

[ferroz]

Please stop talking. FPS when to boiled to down to the basics is First Person + Gun + Shoot Opponent because they shoot you. That is the genre. MMORPG is basically Leveling + Side Objectives (Professions) + PVP Instanced Zones + PVE Instanced Zones. That is MMORPG genre.

No... There are mmorpg's that didn't have "PVP Instanced Zones" or "PVE Instanced Zones"

 

maybe most of the current gen ones have those, but those aren't required for an mmorpg.

[ferroz]

For 5 seconds of your life, you can eliminate the need for a massive, automatic cross-server LFG.

No, that's not true.

 

For one: I don't just want cross server lfg. I want the full suite of cross server tools. Cross server friends. Cross server invites (for both groups and raids). Cross server guild invites. Servers are artificial walls who's time have come. Sending tells doesn't solve that problem, so that need is still there.

 

Besides that... it doesn't take just 5 seconds for me to get a group together that way. And if I were to queue up, I'd have a group in less time.

[IIII-IIII-IIII]

Cross server invites (for both groups and raids). Cross server guild invites. Servers are artificial walls who's time have come. Sending tells doesn't solve that problem, so that need is still there.

So, basically there is no "servers" in that scenario.

 

Interesting.

[harpuax]

So, basically there is no "servers" in that scenario.

 

Interesting.

 

That is how some other MMOs are, STO, EVE, CO to name a few. It's not really 1 physical server but 1 world or realm.

[IIII-IIII-IIII]

That is how some other MMOs are, STO, EVE, CO to name a few. It's not really 1 physical server but 1 world or realm.

I'd be in favor of that idea.

[DarthTHC]

It's difficult to explain. Those of us that experienced its implementation in WoW probably make up the bulk of those not wanting it here. There are plenty of threads here and over at WoW that have discussed it to death. My quick take, it promotes ***-hatery and the killing of the zones. 99% of the WoW population are in the two faction capital cities, the zones are a ghost town.

 

I experienced its implementation in WoW. I loved it. No longer did I have to sit and spam the LFG channel. No longer did I have to bug guildies to run dungeons if they were doing other things. Nor did I have to consider joining a "bigger" guild (which is almost always not better).

 

 

What doesn't it do?

 

It doesn't kill zones. There is very little SWTOR population on any zone except the starter worlds, capital worlds, and fleet anyway.

 

It also doesn't promote d-baggery. People will or won't be d-bags simply because that's how they're made up. You have an equal chance of encountering a d-bag in a group regardless how you got into the group. The thing that LFD does is get you into more groups, more frequently. This means you will more frequently experience d-bags, but only because you're experiencing more dungeons. You will also experience more no-d-bags.

[stem]

Simply put, x-server grouping creates the kind of self-entitled attitude only the impunity of the internet can offer.

 

Playing with a group of strangers you’ll never play with again…… how would anyone care about anyone but themselves?

 

Players don’t need to act civil as there’s no recourse to their poor actions.

 

Playing with other people on your server creates a community where you form familiarity with one another and you can actually build a name for yourself that holds value.

 

Players have to see this now in game. There are both allies and foes you recognize in FPs and Warzones. Who’s good and who’s bad.

 

Who would you rather be?.... the Trooper with a name people remember and everyone follows as they know you’ll push them through, or Trooper ‘x’ from server ‘y’ they couldn’t care less about and everyone just runs around in circles doing their own thing?

 

…. and that’s just allies. I still remember foes from BGs in WoW that you knew to avoid. Those players created a name for themselves.

 

I won’t even get started on how guild recruitment dies with a LFG tools. In short, you can’t ask someone to join your guild if they’re on another server.

[stem]

It also doesn't promote d-baggery. People will or won't be d-bags simply because that's how they're made up. You have an equal chance of encountering a d-bag in a group regardless how you got into the group. The thing that LFD does is get you into more groups, more frequently. This means you will more frequently experience d-bags, but only because you're experiencing more dungeons. You will also experience more no-d-bags.

 

I'd have to disagree here.

 

D-bags in server only groups get set on so many ignore lists, they don’t group for long.

 

That's the only recourse available to the playerbase in an MMO. X-server takes it away.

 

X-server, players dropped groups in seconds if something wasn’t up to their standard, knowing full well they could join another group in seconds.

 

You can’t join a LFD group in WoW without reading at least one of these:

 

“You’ve never run this?”……. drops groups.

 

“L2 hold agro tank”…… drops group.

 

“Your DPS sucks”….. drops group.

 

“Nice GS noob”…… drops group.

 

“Keep up or we’ll kick you healer”

 

(ex. SWTOR scenario)

“….. ya, but my companion could use the mod in that so….. I’ll need”

 

The convenience of the system turns group encounters into a race for rewards/hour and since it’s with people you’ll never see again, that’s all that matters.

 

I have little trouble forming groups.

 

I’m under the impression that people that do, aren’t group players and thus want an auto grouping tool which requires no communication or interaction in an MMO. What they want is faster rewards/hour.

[Coriolan_Martius]

Quote: That is how some other MMOs are, STO, EVE, CO to name a few. It's not really 1 physical server but 1 world or realm.

 

This!

 

If you were on a server were people spam constantly for groups ... and fail you might ask for it too. Either gives us a LFG tool or let us transfer.

[GalacticKegger]

This issue is that it isn't dumbed down enough for the masses to figure out. It needs to be 1 click insta flashpoint or people won't use it. Anything more is too much for most to handle.

A more intuitive LFG interface is coming, it's just in line behind fixes, character xfer, UI, legacy upgrades, gbanks and new content. Edited February 20, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Daedricshots]

I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me.

 

Its a good thing you dont design a game.

[Dumpiduke]

Why not offer a toggle option to either queue local or global? That way, those that want to group with members on the same server can do so with a bit more waiting, and those that want to group with strangers can do so immediately. Best of both worlds IMO.

[ferroz]

You can’t join a LFD group in WoW without reading at least one of these:

 

“You’ve never run this?”……. drops groups.

 

“L2 hold agro tank”…… drops group.

 

“Your DPS sucks”….. drops group.

 

“Nice GS noob”…… drops group.

 

“Keep up or we’ll kick you healer”

 

No, I only very very rarely see those.

[acheros]

No, I only very very rarely see those.

 

Exactly..I see them maybe once or twice every 30-40 dungeons or so. Thats a -smaaaall- minority.

[Jeffor]

cross server ques = bad idea

no community = cross server que

 

Pretty much the way I see it. Implementing cross server anything means there aren't enough players to run content on any one given server. Is TOR already to that point two months after launch? Even with WZs are populations so small now that there aren't enough people for two 8-man teams? That's sad and not a good sign for the game at all.

[Amiracle]

No, I only very very rarely see those.

 

You....very very rarely see it.

 

Prove that it doesn't happen more.