terminova Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 http://buy.swtor.com/us/ SWTOR is on sale right now just 2 months after release. That should tell that people are leaving in droves I heard they are going to give away a bunch of copies of Mass Effect 3. Must mean no one wants to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuntaSur Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'm more PvE oriented. I'd greatly appreciate a cross server LF-FP tool so I can go do either a random one or a specific one of my choice. A couple of times a week our guild schedules flashpoints, which is great if folks can all meet at that same time. The rest of the time folks are doing solo activities or smaller group activities and don't want to do a FP or heroic. The people on the server sitting around the Fleet don't seem to find what they are looking for in the general chat spam....hence seeing the same things flow by in a river for hours. I'm not very PvP oriented. I don't use the PvP queuing tool. I don't know if it is cross server or same server. I am not demanding it to be removed from the game just because I don't find any value in it. I'm sure those who use it find it very beneficial, especially since they can go do other things until they load up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenmuir Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I am drawing this conclusion from the person that I am responding to. For example, yourself. Are you saying that people are looking only for a new skin? Look at it this way. WoW is still a good game. It is not a good game for me, at least not anymore. Why would someone leave a good game if they didn't not want something different? You really think that people define WOW by having an LFG tool? One of the defining features of a WOW clone is an LFG tool? It's not possible for a game to have an LFG tool and not be a WOW clone? How can you be so blinded by your hate for wow? I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segundus Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) What does MMORPG mean? Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. What does Cross Realm LFG do? It brings all those players together so that people can group up easier and faster. Servers with low population don't have to stress about not being able to enjoy the game because they can use this tool to find groups with people from other servers. The same goes for people who play in off hours or who are either not social enough to find groups or too lazy to seek them out. Cross Realm LFG essentially puts the Massively Multiplayer experience into the game. It makes your SWTOR experience an actual MMO experience. Do the people against this tool actually enjoy running around planets with 5-10 people on the entire thing? At least the Cross Realm LFG tool will offset this so that people can play with other players when they want to in flashpoints. For those of you against the implementation of this tool, I say to you just don't use it. Let those of us who want it, use it and enjoy the game we paid for the way we like to play. And you go on sitting in the space stations either with 100+ people who aren't intelligent enough to organize groups or those too lazy to do it. Meanwhile, the rest of us will breath a sigh of relief as it brings new life to an otherwise lifeless (ie solo) game. TL;DR - Cross Realm LFG doesn't ruin the community, it brings multiple communities together into a massive community. Exactly the way successful MMOs are meant to be. Anyone that says otherwise is either a control freak or an overbearing elitist who wants to have a say in how other people enjoy their game. Edited February 19, 2012 by Segundus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnijung Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) You really think that people define WOW by having an LFG tool? One of the defining features of a WOW clone is an LFG tool? It's not possible for a game to have an LFG tool and not be a WOW clone? How can you be so blinded by your hate for wow? I don't understand. I don't hate WoW. I hate what has happened to WoW. LFG alone does not make a clone. People will ************ that they need next thing that WoW has that will make this into a WoW clone. I am happy with the current state of the game. LFG may not be the defining feature of WoW but what is is "EAZY LOOT!!!!!! FOR EVERYONE!!!!" That is the defining feature of WoW. That is what LFG and now LFR led to. I do not know if you played wrath but there was this phenomena with gear score abuse. Holy mother..... why play at appropriate level when you can overpower everything? Edited February 19, 2012 by Magnijung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosblade Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 lol yeah I love standing or doing something else for 30-1h PLUS waiting for just 4 FOUR others to join. I know I know the OP will say.. I never have a problem getting groups.. great post your server and lets see how easy it is.. But guess what it mattes not if you like it or not for its coming and you have no say.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrosian Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Cross Realm LFG doesn't ruin the community, it brings multiple communities together into a massive community. Exactly the way successful MMOs are meant to be. Anyone that says otherwise is either a control freak or an overbearing elitist who wants to have a say in how other people enjoy their game. No. Claiming that "c-LFG" creates communities is like trying to claim that XBOX LIVE is equivalent to an MMO community. Random serverless matchmaking (and that's what c-lfg is) destroys communities because it removes any accountability for your actions. Even if 50 people block you for acting like a complete racist, hate-spewing, lazy moron, you still have 1.7m more who haven't blocked you, whereas if 50 people on you server block you, it's going to get noticeably harder to find a group, as running into any 1 of those 50 people means you're out of the group. That is the way that MMOs are meant to be. If expecting you to act civil, play well, work with other people and be a generally tolerable person to be around is "elitist", then I'm an elitist. Deal with it. Because that's how this game, and all other MMOs, are meant to work. WoW forgot that and it has cost them 2 MILLION US/EU SUBSCRIBERS. They can claim 10 million subscribers all they like, if they want to count people in China who pay $0.07/hour to play... but when you start counting the Chinese gold farmers as your subscribers, you're pretty much proving how far your game has fallen. - c-LFG can never be optional. It's introduction destroys games and communities. Anyone who claims otherwise IS LYING BECAUSE THEY ARE LAZY AND WANT THE FEATURE IMPLEMENTED. That's it, it absolutely does destroy communities. Back in college when Halo CE was out we had 60+ people every Friday and Saturday night come out to our LAN party. It got so large that the college decided it was an enriching freshman activity (since it got even the anti-social kids out of their rooms, playing with actual human beings and we had just as many female players as male players - something unheard of nowadays) and gave us the club house on those nights. The Friday that Halo 2 (with XBOX LIVE) came out, we had 4 people show up. After three weeks of that, we stopped running the LAN and the college went back to doing "alcohol free Fridays" that no one showed up to. Online c-LFG tools KILL THE COMMUNITY. They always do, they are CANCER to the community. People stop getting together at certain times because they no longer feel a need to - "I can get my loot at 4am, lol! How convenient!". And what winds up happening? They don't meet people they ever play with again (because those same people have no commitment to a time or place), they don't care about the character of the people in the group. There's no incentive to help bad players learn, because you'll never group with them again, so bad players are just kicked or people drop group if the group is too fail to complete the dungeon. C-LFG has always killed games, it will always kill games. If it comes to SWTOR, I'm not sticking around to wait for it to finish off the game. The moment you can queue for dungeons / raids cross-realm, I'm gone, along with a million other subscribers who are sick of the nonsense that WoW became. You want garbage community and easy-mode loot? Go play WoW. The stupidest thing Blizzard ever did was listen to the whiners who wanted things easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhnnybgood Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What about the option to go cross-realm or not? Hit a check box, you're searching the entire community. Or don't check the box and only those on your server will be added. Solution? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrosian Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 lol yeah I love standing or doing something else for 30-1h PLUS waiting for just 4 FOUR others to join. I know I know the OP will say.. I never have a problem getting groups.. great post your server and lets see how easy it is.. But guess what it mattes not if you like it or not for its coming and you have no say.. There have been multiple dev posts stating they do not want a cross-server LFG tool and that they believe such tools lead to people acting like jerks and destroy communities. There will never be a cross-server LFG in SWTOR. There will be cross-server warzone randoms, to deal with server balance issues, but there's a difference between what's good for the PVP community and what's good for the PVE community. If you're having trouble finding groups, I'd suggest looking for a mirror more than a new server. Your social and networking abilities matter in an MMO, as they should, and most of the people coming over from WoW are severely lacking in those departments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrosian Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What about the option to go cross-realm or not? Hit a check box, you're searching the entire community. Or don't check the box and only those on your server will be added. Solution? Yes. No. It is not "optional" any more than a nerf you can check off is "optional". As soon as you add the so-called "option" of convenience, too many people take it and the communities die off. It causes a mass drop in the number of people looking for groups on-server, with the net result that forming groups on-server becomes impossible. People need to be inconvenienced. This is one of those many times in life where something that people think they want actually turns out to be bad for them. Like fast food, movies on their iPhone and "no strings attached" friends-with-benefits, it's a cheap experience and they don't realize what they've missed out on until it's too late. Once you add the "option", it ceases to be optional. It's like giving people the "option" to pay their taxes, people would automatically take the path of least resistance even if it would obviously have massive negative consequences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhnnybgood Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Maybe I'm being too impatient, but I just don't like how hard it is (not always) to find groups. I mean, I have a Juggernaut Immortal spec, and it's still difficult to find groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 There have been multiple dev posts stating they do not want a cross-server LFG tool and that they believe such tools lead to people acting like jerks and destroy communities. There will never be a cross-server LFG in SWTOR. There will be cross-server warzone randoms, to deal with server balance issues, but there's a difference between what's good for the PVP community and what's good for the PVE community I actually agree with the PvP thing. In WoW, Blizzard had to create Battlegroups because of the imbalance issue with PvP which really needed to have enough players for both sides, and the Battlegroups were around since....sometime in vanilla WoW I think. Been...awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuntaSur Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 No. It is not "optional" any more than a nerf you can check off is "optional". As soon as you add the so-called "option" of convenience, too many people take it and the communities die off. It causes a mass drop in the number of people looking for groups on-server, with the net result that forming groups on-server becomes impossible. People need to be inconvenienced. This is one of those many times in life where something that people think they want actually turns out to be bad for them. Like fast food, movies on their iPhone and "no strings attached" friends-with-benefits, it's a cheap experience and they don't realize what they've missed out on until it's too late. Once you add the "option", it ceases to be optional. It's like giving people the "option" to pay their taxes, people would automatically take the path of least resistance even if it would obviously have massive negative consequences It isn't working. People loging, spam LFG in guild and general chat. After no success, they logout. Eventually they'll stop logging in. How's that for building a community? Two hours of LFG spamming isn't going to keep people in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfondles Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) As of right now I haven't been able to finish any flashpoints while leveling up my level 30 character... I'm forced to skip every one of them. I tried spamming general on the fleet for hours.. But then I just gave up multiple times.. This ruins the leveling experience.. I would like to be able to learn how to heal in dungeons on my healer or dps as I level up.. Leveling up is kind of where you get the feel for all of this stuff.. But all I can really do is solo missions and pvp.. Random pugs on a server do not add to the community at all anyways.. If I spam general chat for hours and somehow finally find a full group it's still a random pug.. It would be the exact same thing if I did it with a random pug on another server.. People say that a lfd tool would take away from the community because it gives people a reason to act like *****.. Which is just totally bogus, that person will act like a dick regardless of it being cross server or not.. I say all of this as a healer on a standard population server (I still haven't ever found a group to finish flashpoints with while leveling..) For those of you that for whatever reason think a lfd cross server tool would hurt the community; You can't kill the community if there is no community to begin with. Edited February 19, 2012 by Mcfondles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) What does MMORPG mean? Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. What does Cross Realm LFG do? You don't need cross realm LFG to make a game a MMO because the game already is a MMO. All those people on the server? They are all other people playing the game online. The definition for MMO has just been met without the use of cross server LFG. It isn't working. People loging, spam LFG in guild and general chat. After no success, they logout. Eventually they'll stop logging in. How's that for building a community? Two hours of LFG spamming isn't going to keep people in the game. The problem is there isn't a decent server only LFG tool. Edited February 19, 2012 by terminova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 You don't need cross realm LFG to make a game a MMO because the game already is a MMO. All those people on the server? They are all other people playing the game online. The definition for MMO has just been met without the use of cross server LFG. The problem is there isn't a decent server only LFG tool. When you're playing republic on a low pop server and do a /who and see only 14 level 50 players on then it doesn't matter if you have a LFG tool that's server only. It won't fix the problem lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfondles Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) A cross server lfd tool solves so many of the most important problems that people are worried about atm.. Think about all of the pve'ers that complain about being on a low population server that can never find a group.. (I can't find a group on a standard population server either) Problem solved.. Or simply servers that don't have enough players on to even set up a group.. Problem solved People who complain that they have to spam general chat for hours to no avail.. Problem solved.. People who are still leveling and would have to sit on the fleet for hours and basically do nothing to find a group.. You can't finish missions or continue the leveling process while searching for a group.. Problem solved.. Servers that have a deficit of healers or tanks.. So they are never able to set up a fully working group.. Problem solved Edited February 19, 2012 by Mcfondles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 When you're playing republic on a low pop server and do a /who and see only 14 level 50 players on then it doesn't matter if you have a LFG tool that's server only. It won't fix the problem lol. Out of how many players at what time during the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) When you're playing republic on a low pop server and do a /who and see only 14 level 50 players on then it doesn't matter if you have a LFG tool that's server only. It won't fix the problem lol. Exactly. Besides, I've had very bad experiences in the past with server-only LFG tools. LOTRO's for example has one and it sucks horribly. I've come to the conclusion certain servers simply have tank-shortages or healer-shortages, and that is the real problem. Not to mention population shortages in general like you cited. Having a system that is only server based doesn't address this issue at all. Cross-server is needed. WoW's system worked incredibly well, and it deserves to be emulated. Probably the only thing on WoW I think actually is worth copying lol Edited February 19, 2012 by JeremyDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 LFG may not be the defining feature of WoW but what is is "EAZY LOOT!!!!!! FOR EVERYONE!!!!" That is the defining feature of WoW. That is what LFG and now LFR led to. And you think the best way to limit the access to the loot is by making it harder to play in group? Why not just remove the gear from dungeons and put them on single player quests on the planets? Why are you against group content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Out of how many players at what time during the day? Right now on The Courageous there is 27 total level 50's serverwide and 25 people on fleet all together. My choices are: - Adjust my life schedule and play on peak server times to run HMs - Wait and hope this server fills out over time while either continuing to pay or quitting the game - Reroll and abandon my Legacy on this server Does that make sense to you terminova? The alternative is having a cross server tool that can pull up 1000's of level 50's for HM flashpoints. What is the point of continuing to design operations and end game flashpoints if people are going to have trouble forming groups to run them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Right now on The Courageous there is 27 total level 50's serverwide and 25 people on fleet all together. My choices are: - Adjust my life schedule and play on peak server times to run HMs - Wait and hope this server fills out over time while either continuing to pay or quitting the game - Reroll and abandon my Legacy on this server Does that make sense to you terminova? The alternative is having a cross server tool that can pull up 1000's of level 50's for HM flashpoints. What is the point of continuing to design operations and end game flashpoints if people are going to have trouble forming groups to run them? You forgot /quit but yeah +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Right now on The Courageous there is 27 total level 50's serverwide and 25 people on fleet all together. My choices are: - Adjust my life schedule and play on peak server times to run HMs - Wait and hope this server fills out over time while either continuing to pay or quitting the game - Reroll and abandon my Legacy on this server Does that make sense to you terminova? The alternative is having a cross server tool that can pull up 1000's of level 50's for HM flashpoints. What is the point of continuing to design operations and end game flashpoints if people are going to have trouble forming groups to run them? And when you cannot clear them or have some other issue with a cross-server LFG tool for whatever reason, the forums are the first place you'll come to complain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varus_Praetor Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 It's difficult to explain. Those of us that experienced its implementation in WoW probably make up the bulk of those not wanting it here. There are plenty of threads here and over at WoW that have discussed it to death. My quick take, it promotes ***-hatery and the killing of the zones. 99% of the WoW population are in the two faction capital cities, the zones are a ghost town. I played WoW and I loved the cross server LFG. Community? What a joke. As if there's some huge black list that is publicly maintained by the MMO Santa to ensure everyone is a good little boy or girl. Back in WoW if someone was being a d-bag, you kicked him and had a replacement in less than 5 minutes because you had a robust tool to facilitate grouping. As it stands now if you get stuck with a d-bag in SWTOR you either have to deal with it or waste a HUGE amount of time, because getting groups is like pulling teeth. Frankly I think the "but but but.....the community" crowd needs to get a life. It's a video game. If you want community go play bingo at the old folks home. Me I'd rather get in, get out, and actually enjoy this thing I pay $15 per month for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabricated Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 LFG is pretty much going to be a staple of DIKU-type MMOs from hereon out. SWTOR is going to get one and there isn't anything you can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts