No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[Deyjarl]

As soon as you allow cross server you will end up with pugs complaining they cannot do the hardmodes followed by nerfs followed by raids are too hard followed by nerfs.

 

Proof......Rift

 

Counter proof, WoW. They keep the content is until newer content to replace it is brought in.

 

Just because Rift did it the wrong way, doesn't mean BW needs to.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Deyjarl

[terminova]

Counter proof, WoW. They keep the content is until newer content to replace it is brought in.

 

Just because Rift did it the wrong way, doesn't mean BW needs to.

 

Blizzard basically nerfed dungeons because the groups getting put together with the LFD system were failing to clear the content.

[TonyIommi]

Cross server is fine I don't care. Just not for hard modes and not for operations. If you want to run the hard mode flashpoints, get your stuff together. Edited February 14, 2012 by TonyIommi

[Deyjarl]

Blizzard basically nerfed dungeons because the groups getting put together with the LFD system were failing to clear the content.

 

 

Long after other groups cleared them and new content was released.

[Kaelshi]

Long after other groups cleared them and new content was released.

 

 

I've come to the conclusion you will never convince people.

 

There is literally a guy in the other lfg thread who said his sense of community was burnt out with his rl friends because of LFG. He was serious and not trolling. He believes it.

 

They are saying it just to say it- they dont even now what they mean. Ask one of them what sense of community they are talking about.

 

If your in a guild who does not use LFG and raids/dungeons regularly LFG will not effect your guild.

 

Outside of that have these people not seen server chats in WoW? You would think it's these love-fests with everyone complimenting everyone else.

 

If LFG burns out the community and stops people from spamming A NAL this and A Nal that and non-stop trolling....yeah sign me up.

 

LFG does not effect the community in any known discernible way and no one has ever offered any proof to the contrary.

[Uruare]

It is not well stated or well reasoned because it's built on precisely the predominant (and wrong) notion that automated LFG systems break communities down and dumb down the game.

 

I said nothing about the veracity of his content one way or another. It was, however, well stated; he made his statements clearly; and well reasoned; he expanded upon his statements with his reasons.

 

There's a difference.

 

You also cannot say that you are not being elitist while simultaneously complaining that anything is being dumbed down in a video game.

 

Why not?

 

 

Anybody who cares that much about notions of status and difficulty in a video game is an elitist. Also, drawing any comparisons between the design of this game and the design of vanilla WoW is just... stupid. There's a reason why that design philosophy has gone out the window: because it caters to elitists like the poster in question and alienates the VAST majority of its playerbase.

 

It's the 'anybody who cares that much' first sentence that makes me furrow my eyebrows. The rest...is what it is.

 

 

WoW has taken it another step. Forget dungeon finder, you can now find entire raid groups through that mechanic. You can meet and befriend people ON OTHER SERVERS through this because the raids are complex enough that you will recognize the goodies from the baddies. The battletag system through Battle.net allows full cross server friend functionality as well as the ability to form groups for battlegrounds, dungeons and raids with anybody on any server. This is indisputably a great thing that CANNOT happen in SWTOR. It breaks down barriers between servers by bringing all of the content to anyone who wants to play it with anyone else on the NA server cluster.

 

 

It can facilitate all of those things, to be sure. For me in my experience on WoW, it has facilitated all of those things, in point of personal fact.

 

There are other incidentals attendant that are generally perceived as negative too, however. I do not dismiss those out of hand, even though I can be quite quick to rip apart misattributions of them.

 

Your quotee also mentions the notion that LFG removes this "tiny bit of effort" of meeting a group of quality individuals, forming a guild or friendship with them and then grouping consistently with those people. First of all, it isn't always easy to find quality players who are looking to be social. It's in the nature of an MMO that many players are going to be antisocial nerds with their own established cliques not looking to make new friends. Solo players are often garbage can casuals that you would sooner prefer to stab your own eyeballs out than play with again. Second, if the LFG tool is only removing what is a minor inconvenience, then what's the big deal about having it to you?

 

It is, for some, little more than a tiny bit of effort. For others on the other end of the circumstance stick, it can be a nigh-impossible nightmare, and most fall somewhere in between.

 

 

 

Let's put it this way. While leveling up in WoW before the LFD tool, you would almost never be able to find groups for any low level dungeons. I'm talking in WoW in the last couple years here--there are not many players leveling anymore on a single server, so you simply cannot find a Deadmines group from the selection of people on your own server. Furthermore, maybe you're leveling in Westfall, but you want to see the Wailing Caverns. I actually experienced this myself: I never saw WC until I went there and soloed it at max level because it was in Horde territory and was almost impossible to get a group for and get to as an Alliance player.

 

 

Been there in nearly identical fashions myself. I hear ya.

 

 

The cross-server LFG tool remedies both of these issues. They open up content to players in a mature MMO setting where not many people are leveling. They let you break the monotony of questing by efficiently and quickly getting you a group for dungeons that are next to impossible to get groups for without said tool for the reasons I stated above. It incentivizes grouping during a primarily solo leveling experience, even if it is grouping with players off of other servers. It allows players to see fun and interesting content that they would otherwise not see.

 

Absolutely.

 

 

All complaints against the LFD systems are built upon the unwritten assumption that the players are all maximum level. And every single one I have ever seen is really stupid, your quotees being no exception.

 

 

See though, said quotee, like you here, took the time to lay his thoughts out and explain his reasoning for them. In a general framing of concerns, I agree that his concerns are valid; worthy of discussion; not a waste of time to bring to the floor and look at.

 

 

I'm going to say the same to you here now; your points are also valid per your expressions of them. You've presented us, and me by specific quote-response, with a well stated and well reasoned post.

 

Before I move along, I'd like to thank you for that as well. I mean that too.

[terminova]

Long after other groups cleared them and new content was released.

 

You aren't listening.

 

 

They nerfed dungeons NOT necessarily other people had already cleared it.

 

 

They nerfed them because random pugs could NOT clear it consistently.

Edited February 14, 2012 by terminova

[MalignX]

You aren't listening.

 

 

They nerfed dungeons NOT necessarily other people had already cleared it.

 

 

They nerfed them because random pugs could NOT clear it consistently.

 

Not bickering with you in particular but did Blizzard officially state this was the reason they nerfed anything? Anything?

Edited February 14, 2012 by MalignX

[Deyjarl]

You aren't listening.

 

 

They nerfed dungeons NOT necessarily other people had already cleared it.

 

 

They nerfed them because random pugs could NOT clear it consistently.

 

 

You aren't listening, they were going to anyway so more people could get through them.

 

You don't remember the long drawn out period before this where even Blizzard admitted their content was not getting used by the vast majority of the play base.

 

So you really have no leg to stand on with this as a complaint. It was a good move by Blizzard. It didn't hurt the hardcores that got to do the content with the more difficult tier long before anyone else did. It didn't hurt the average gamer as they finally got content they could do.

 

The only people it hurt are the snobs that couldn't handle a game changing its content to appeal to more people an not a small minority.

[Heretiq]

I logged into WoW again last night after about 5 months of not playing it at all. The very first thing (after customizing my UI) was queueing up for the 3 new heroic dungeons as a healer. My average wait time was probably about 5 minutes.

 

And despite all of the freak*ng godd*mn bullsh*t you guys keep spouting about people ninjaing items, leaving after wipes and being rude as*holes - I actually had a really good time.

 

There was NO ninjaing, NO leaving and NOONE acted like a d*ck. Those anonymous, random people that I'll probably never meet again were even nice enough to explain the core-mechanics of the bosses to me.

 

It was better than everything I have experienced in SWTOR so far - eventhough in TOR I was forced to "socialize" and eventhough I had to find my group manually.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Heretiq

[Touchbass]

I logged into WoW again last night after about 5 months of not playing it at all. The very first thing (after customizing my UI) was queueing up for the 3 new heroic dungeons as a healer. My average wait time was probably about 5 minutes.

 

And despite all of the freak*ng godd*mn bullsh*t you guys keep spouting about people ninjaing items, leaving after wipes and being rude as*holes - I actually had a really good time.

 

There was NO ninjaing, NO leaving and NOONE acted like a d*ck. Those anonymous, random people that I'll probably never meet again were even nice enough to explain the core-mechanics of the bosses to me.

 

It was better than everything I have experienced in SWTOR so far - eventhough I was forced to "socialize" and eventhough I had to find my group manually.

 

Yeah, the instance experience is far superior to what we have here. I've actually noticed a few people by following their previous post history change their stance from "No way to LFD" for legitimate none trolling reasons to "Ok maybe we should try it, this isn't working in SWTOR". What I've never seen is someone change their stance from Pro-LFD to no way LFD is bad for the community. Makes me think it's an education issue

[Nitewolfe]

As soon as you allow cross server you will end up with pugs complaining they cannot do the hardmodes followed by nerfs followed by raids are too hard followed by nerfs.

 

Proof......Rift

 

I will point out here that rift went on to add mastermode that were extremely harder and they were not on the lfg list.

So while yes nerfs happened in rift they also added another level of difficulty and excluded those from pug runs.

 

There is no reason that BW couldnt do the say and add nightmare mode to flashpoints and exclude this for player who want it hard and single server.

[TehMerc]

I've actually noticed a few people by following their previous post history e

 

 

Man! I never get my own stalker.

 

To be even somewhat on topic: I couldn't really care too much either way. Might lose some "community spirit" but in the end it's much more preferable to sitting around because you can't find a group for the instance you need.

 

And I can finally get rid of people who keep standing in lightning rather than grinding my head, so that's another plus.

[Doomsaga]

Yeah, the instance experience is far superior to what we have here. I've actually noticed a few people by following their previous post history change their stance from "No way to LFD" for legitimate none trolling reasons to "Ok maybe we should try it, this isn't working in SWTOR". What I've never seen is someone change their stance from Pro-LFD to no way LFD is bad for the community. Makes me think it's an education issue

 

Exactly. This guy gets it.

[Touchbass]

Exactly. This guy gets it.

 

You don't become ranked 17th in the world in cross server discussion by not getting it

[Sendrel]

I logged into WoW again last night after about 5 months of not playing it at all. The very first thing (after customizing my UI) was queueing up for the 3 new heroic dungeons as a healer. My average wait time was probably about 5 minutes.

 

And despite all of the freak*ng godd*mn bullsh*t you guys keep spouting about people ninjaing items, leaving after wipes and being rude as*holes - I actually had a really good time.

 

There was NO ninjaing, NO leaving and NOONE acted like a d*ck. Those anonymous, random people that I'll probably never meet again were even nice enough to explain the core-mechanics of the bosses to me.

 

It was better than everything I have experienced in SWTOR so far - eventhough in TOR I was forced to "socialize" and eventhough I had to find my group manually.

 

Good post.

 

Actually had a similar experience with Rift recently.

[LonefoxSwe]

I'm against a click-button LFG tool for all sorts of reasons.

 

But it's needed here.

 

 

The reason?

 

No-one, at least on my server, uses the LFG that's in-game already.

 

 

SW:TOR has a perfectly good, workable, LFG tool which no-one uses. I have no idea why a guide is not stickied to the top of the page, or emailed to every player when they join.

 

But its not, and therefore just about everyone ignores the LFG tool and just spams LFG in the fleet.

 

 

I ask you - how many of the people here who object to a click-button LFG tool use the one that's in-game already?

 

I am one of the few that uses it on my server....and it's a pain to see that ppl are to lazy to use two mouseclicks and some typing in the tool to find a grp.....

Nooooo......instead they rant about a LFG-tool....wich needs more programming to be working good for grps since we need (mostly) healer, tank and dps's for 4-man grps....

If the system will work more like the pvp-queue then it will be fked up from the start..

[ferroz]

As soon as you allow cross server you will end up with pugs complaining they cannot do the hardmodes followed by nerfs followed by raids are too hard followed by nerfs.

 

Proof......Rift

eh, rift had 2 sets of hard mode dungeon nerfs before they added a single server lfd.

 

the nerfs have nothing to do with cross server (or lfd for that matter)

 

What you have here is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy... you're claiming that because there were nerfs after the lfd went cross server in rfit, those nerfs were caused by the cross server lfd. Clearly, Trion had plenty of reasons to nerf the content other than lfd, since there were several sets of nerfs before it went cross server (at least 4 or 5 before I quit and it wasn't cross server at that point). Since they had already had an established history of nerfing the content for reasons that were not specific to the lfd, it's not possible to use the fact that nerfs happened after cross server to establish causality.

 

So your implication that it is certaint to happen in swtor if they make a cross server lfd is nothing but baseless speculation.

 

EDIT: And really, talking about TOR and difficulty in the same sentence is kind of silly, isn't it?

Edited February 17, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

I am one of the few that uses it on my server....and it's a pain to see that ppl are to lazy to use two mouseclicks and some typing in the tool to find a grp.....

It's not laziness... it's that, based on past experience (for some, that's more than 10 years of MMO gaming) those tools are worthless.

[jesterbones]

Simple solution for those who want it server only.

 

Have a toggle for them to limit it to that. They get their server only LFG, and people who want cross server get that also.

 

This might be the best solution to keep everyone somewhat happy. I am for the lfg tool, not everyone one has many friends that play the game or in an active larger guild, I don't want them to dumb down any of the difficulty of the flashpoints ect, but I also want to be able to experience some endgame as well.

[Verindel]

I'm not pro-cross realm LFG. Not against it either to be honest.

 

What I am pro is within realm LFG tools, I do not understand why PvP gets a system for this and PvE gets screwed.

 

Great instances in PvE. However I'm only able to do them if I sit around for half an hour spamming global chats every few minutes. Why, how does this benefit anyone?

 

Spamming winds people up, and the groups that are formed are no more social than those formed with a LFG tool.

 

The current system actively punishes people for wanting to do flashpoints. Queuing for a warzone while waiting for it to pop you can carry on questing. Waiting for people to respond for a flashpoint you cannot do anything, with the exception of crafting.

 

I have pretty much stopped playing now and that is mostly due to not being able to do flashpoints without the unnecessary hassle of setting the groups up.

[Verindel]

I am one of the few that uses it on my server....and it's a pain to see that ppl are to lazy to use two mouseclicks and some typing in the tool to find a grp.....

Nooooo......instead they rant about a LFG-tool....wich needs more programming to be working good for grps since we need (mostly) healer, tank and dps's for 4-man grps....

If the system will work more like the pvp-queue then it will be fked up from the start..

 

Also is only visible to those in the area you are in.

 

Meaning you need to be actively checking the /who list to find out if anyone has actually listed themselves to do it. Then have to check every area systematically to find if anyone in the world has it on.

 

That then only works if they have turned it on and typed in the required info to let you know what they are looking for/roles.

 

In the end is just easier and more efficient to type into /general and hope someone responds.

 

PvE system just needs you to click your preferred role and away you go, as you said 4 players 3 roles, 1 tank, 1 healer 2 dps not that hard. The groups made will not be any worse than the ones you make yourself.

[Touchbass]

I have pretty much stopped playing now and that is mostly due to not being able to do flashpoints without the unnecessary hassle of setting the groups up.

 

Pretty much this, why Bioware didn't learn from WOW and just expand on it's features is beyond me. Blizzard is making it so you can group and do dungeons/pvp with the friends you make across servers, how nice is that? I believe you said you were just in favour of intra server LFD but you gotta realise nobody will do any flashpoints prior to lvl 50 so unless you want cross server you'll be screwed.

[terminova]

Also is only visible to those in the area you are in.

 

Meaning you need to be actively checking the /who list to find out if anyone has actually listed themselves to do it. Then have to check every area systematically to find if anyone in the world has it on.

 

That then only works if they have turned it on and typed in the required info to let you know what they are looking for/roles.

 

In the end is just easier and more efficient to type into /general and hope someone responds.

 

PvE system just needs you to click your preferred role and away you go, as you said 4 players 3 roles, 1 tank, 1 healer 2 dps not that hard. The groups made will not be any worse than the ones you make yourself.

 

Because of the few people actually using the current version of the tool, you could simply sort by those who put what they are looking for in the comment section, and leave the search bar empty.

 

Pretty much this, why Bioware didn't learn from WOW and just expand on it's features is beyond me. Blizzard is making it so you can group and do dungeons/pvp with the friends you make across servers, how nice is that? I believe you said you were just in favour of intra server LFD but you gotta realise nobody will do any flashpoints prior to lvl 50 so unless you want cross server you'll be screwed.

 

And your basing that on what, exactly? Sounds more like pure conjecture.

Edited February 18, 2012 by terminova

[Darkulous]

Because of the few people actually using the current version of the tool, you could simply sort by those who put what they are looking for in the comment section, and leave the search bar empty.

 

 

 

And your basing that on what, exactly? Sounds more like pure conjecture.

 

Not really. Try leveling up a toon in any seasoned mmo and run local instances. Won't happen because people aren't around, they're all in end-game.

 

The entire reason Blizzard came out with the cross-server is because lower-level content was collecting a lot of dust.