wifeaggro Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) How bout we start with the simple things you learn in Game Design 101. Like weather effects and a day/night cycle? And then get rid of "exhaustion zones". Hey, see those beautiful mountains over there!? No, you can't go to them SWTOR design is not easily fixed. engine concepts and philosphies about what gamers want. all those things combined make up SWTOR's fundemental design. Its not easily corrected. if you looka how hard of atime they are having just getting high res textures into game is telling the story of their game engine and design choices. Games released in 2004 have better textures and all the Dynamic world effects. Bioware made a dieliberate decision to leave these things out and concentrate on doing what they know ow to do, and picked an engine friendly to their strengths. the things that will make TOR feel aive will never happen, dynamic weather, day and night cycles, dynamic NPC's dynamic content. it will not happen in TOR the story 4th pillar is bioware focus and its central support the other 3 pillars are extremly weak by design that will not change it would take them rewritting the base hero engine they have devolped on and we all know that aint gonna happen.Enjoy TOr for what it is a great single player game with a plethora of multiplayer features. The market is going to go nuculear over the next 5 years with the big budget MMO's in production ,and the few good ones that have survived the storm will get better as well. Edited February 11, 2012 by wifeaggro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmonkeeus Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 LoL, great story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So how do you want to fix it? Oh you just came here to whine? The only way to fix it is with new planets designed differently. Larger more wide open spaces. Room to explore. More sandbox elements are an absolute must. In-depth crafting. Player housing on planets and non instanced. More in-depth harvesting. The only thing that will save this game is D-E-P-T-H. Also, it just seems that nothing you do in the SWTOR world really matters. BW's almost doctrinal stance on the solo story design is a mistake. Their stance on solo gameplay as a whole, in an MMO, is a mistake. SWTOR's group content is INCONSEQUENTIAL. If I did 5 fp's total, that would be a lot. There is no need to do them. You do not need to do them to advance in any way. I made it to 50 on one toon and 20 on another in 30 days without them. You say I missed out on great gear??? Really and with what consequence? NONE! And I was constantly ahead of the leveling curve right up to Corellia which is 47-49. The group content is fun that being FP's and Op's but it's old and tired and in the end doesn't matter as everyone will get good enough gear or better gear without trying so there is no point to it. People on the forums tell you do the FP's, OP's, crafting and such but none of it really matters in the end. Crafting : you will loot better gear while PvPing or running regular quests , fps or ops, so no point. Gear is easy to get so everyone will have it so again no point to ops or fp. At end game the game really becomes pointless especially on Ilum as Republic. That's one of the biggest things I come away with is that the game is too easy, too much good gear drops for nothing, no one needs you and you need no one. No middle game content that would make someone slow down. No real Epic questing going on. It's just more like doing assignments. You will get everything you want guaranteed. No risk whatsoever. It's epically boring. It's the state of MMO's today I guess. Kind of sad actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iRouven Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 While I understand the OP - there is a few things to be seen here: A lot of NPC's are playing out a little scenario. Be it the welding, cleaning droid, police that is questioning/arresting someone, thugs beating someone up etc. I really like the soldiers at the front fighting the other faction behind cover. Sometimes you will notice NPC movement in your cinematics - for example pilot's running across the hall - when the cinematic is over you will notice that they are still running in the world! Background chatter - ever listen to the story's? Father and son talking about being summoned for questioning to intelligence, refugees complaining about the hot weather etc etc. Your companion making a remark when entering a new area. One reason why it feels empty might be the scale - I often think when entering class story area's - wow this place is huge, like casino's for example, or even your hangar bay with waiting rooms up front etc. The few NPC's standing around there get simply lost. More ambient sound would definitely be great - gotta be careful there, it can also get pretty annoying very fast - thinking about the example mentioned for "crafting" sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 While I understand the OP - there is a few things to be seen here: A lot of NPC's are playing out a little scenario. Be it the welding, cleaning droid, police that is questioning/arresting someone, thugs beating someone up etc. I really like the soldiers at the front fighting the other faction behind cover. Sometimes you will notice NPC movement in your cinematics - for example pilot's running across the hall - when the cinematic is over you will notice that they are still running in the world! Background chatter - ever listen to the story's? Father and son talking about being summoned for questioning to intelligence, refugees complaining about the hot weather etc etc. Yeah but you know what? For me personally, this adds to my feeling of being alienated. The higher I leveled the more I felt like I was watching a movie of someone else's life rather than my story. Everything you say above only really works when there is more depth in the game. (see my post above yours) Without depth, I may as well watch the clones wars on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 While I understand the OP - there is a few things to be seen here: A lot of NPC's are playing out a little scenario. Be it the welding, cleaning droid, police that is questioning/arresting someone, thugs beating someone up etc. I really like the soldiers at the front fighting the other faction behind cover. Sometimes you will notice NPC movement in your cinematics - for example pilot's running across the hall - when the cinematic is over you will notice that they are still running in the world! Background chatter - ever listen to the story's? Father and son talking about being summoned for questioning to intelligence, refugees complaining about the hot weather etc etc. Your companion making a remark when entering a new area. One reason why it feels empty might be the scale - I often think when entering class story area's - wow this place is huge, like casino's for example, or even your hangar bay with waiting rooms up front etc. The few NPC's standing around there get simply lost. More ambient sound would definitely be great - gotta be careful there, it can also get pretty annoying very fast - thinking about the example mentioned for "crafting" sounds. Actually, they aren't so much "playing out" a scenario, they are freeze-framed within a scenario. This goes back to the original point; everything is static. Sure, there may be one or two patrolling mobs in an area, patrolling on a specified path that is obvious, but even those are static in their action, as it were. TOR most definitely does not feel alive. And to the "it's whining if you don't say how to fix it" guy. . . so what if that is what you think. It is our job to play the game and provide feedback, not to design the game. I usually do make suggestions, but they don't matter anyway. BW is not interested in our opinions or suggestions. GZ has openly stated this. If there is something you don't like about the game, say so, there is nothing wrong with identifying something that you see as a problem; problems cannot be solved if they are not identified, it is the first necessary step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrolepsy Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So how do you want to fix it? Oh you just came here to whine? This wasn't whining. While he may not have a solution to it, he's addressing his concerns to the developers, something you should applaud, not hiss at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaRockStar Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 On the contrary I think the game world is very lively. Just the other day I saw another player while I was questing. I invited him to my group but he denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jswizzle Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Not signing. If you think the world is sterile you are seeing what you want. Every planet I go to there are npcs doing different things. I love hearing the random conversations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelinestars Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So I have always felt, since beta anyway, that the swtor world felt dead. Not just in the number of players but the environments. Lifeless cities. No ambient sound. Well played the Tera beta the last 24 hours straight and it confirms these feelings even more. The cities feel so alive. Players are everywhere. Sounds of city life, crafting, players dueling in the dueling ring. I actually felt like part of an MMO WORLD. The list goes on and on. Yes it has flaws too (Korean) just makes me hope and some point Swtor will feel more alive. SWTOR never has and never will feel alive. BioWare is asking we pay $15 bucks a month for a single player game with a chat box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The only way to fix it is with new planets designed differently. Larger more wide open spaces. Room to explore. More sandbox elements are an absolute must. In-depth crafting. Player housing on planets and non instanced. More in-depth harvesting. The only thing that will save this game is D-E-P-T-H. Also, it just seems that nothing you do in the SWTOR world really matters. BW's almost doctrinal stance on the solo story design is a mistake. Their stance on solo gameplay as a whole, in an MMO, is a mistake. SWTOR's group content is INCONSEQUENTIAL. If I did 5 fp's total, that would be a lot. There is no need to do them. You do not need to do them to advance in any way. I made it to 50 on one toon and 20 on another in 30 days without them. You say I missed out on great gear??? Really and with what consequence? NONE! And I was constantly ahead of the leveling curve right up to Corellia which is 47-49. The group content is fun that being FP's and Op's but it's old and tired and in the end doesn't matter as everyone will get good enough gear or better gear without trying so there is no point to it. People on the forums tell you do the FP's, OP's, crafting and such but none of it really matters in the end. Crafting : you will loot better gear while PvPing or running regular quests , fps or ops, so no point. Gear is easy to get so everyone will have it so again no point to ops or fp. At end game the game really becomes pointless especially on Ilum as Republic. That's one of the biggest things I come away with is that the game is too easy, too much good gear drops for nothing, no one needs you and you need no one. No middle game content that would make someone slow down. No real Epic questing going on. It's just more like doing assignments. You will get everything you want guaranteed. No risk whatsoever. It's epically boring. It's the state of MMO's today I guess. Kind of sad actually.Whoa, you just voiced what people had been saying since 2008. though it was a small voice in the devolpment forums it was all things that the small voice feared. The truth is ive played all the planets a couple of times over or more more on some of them. been playing since beta 2 so i attribute some of my ambivelance to burn out. but truth be told i remember nothing of my leveling expierence or the planets minus a few bright spots. I remember zones and expierences more in AOC Eq 2 Rift,and even EQ 1 crystal clear. I have gaming friends form all those games we made friends and transitioned to other MMO's as a group. Ive not met one new person in SWTOR and it was not for lack of trying either, Ive had that expierence where i hit the add to group plus sign on their portrait and recieved a tell sayin no thank you i dont need help. more then a few times. I do think if SWTOr does have a massive burn off and it teaches the industry a big monetary lesson perhaps they will move form the pure theme park design and go back to some of the traditioninal game design that held subs for longer cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 On the contrary I think the game world is very lively. Just the other day I saw another player while I was questing. I invited him to my group but he denied. You saw another player? In this game? <----- jealous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 All of the vibrance in the world isn't going to get me to play another D&D clone. There's plenty that can be done to increase the liveliness of TOR cities and stations. But that probably isn't their top priority at the moment. And besides, I don't think any game has ever come close to the immersion factor of Neocron City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotsonik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Despite the fun I'm having with this game, I do understand and even echo the OP's feeling on this. The worlds are lacking that level of detail. For example: Bird sounds, wind, fauna, insects.Weather systems/patterns/changesDay/Night cycles - or light changes (depending on the amount of suns/moons each planet might have) Hopefully Bioware will take some time to breathe some more immersion and life into the zones at some point. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radubadu Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Despite the fun I'm having with this game, I do understand and even echo the OP's feeling on this. The worlds are lacking that level of detail. For example: Bird sounds, wind, fauna, insects.Weather systems/patterns/changesDay/Night cycles - or light changes (depending on the amount of suns/moons each planet might have) Hopefully Bioware will take some time to breathe some more immersion and life into the zones at some point. Cheers! Honestly this isn't the kind of detail I pay attention to... but I do agree. For those that want the world to be more "alive" you do need changes in weather/lighting etc... Just out of curiosity has this been posted on the suggestion board? Also: are people genuinely hoping this takes precedence over the other things they're looking to do to improve the game? Edited February 11, 2012 by Radubadu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Go to Corusant and look up. If that doesn't make you feel like your in an actual city I don't know what to tell you. Furthermore if proper immersion can be accomplished with a few background sound effects, as posters suggest over and over in this thread, the issue shouldn't be all that difficult to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotsonik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Also: are people genuinely hoping this takes precedence over the other things they're looking to do to improve the game? I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely do not expect this sort of thing to take precedent. If anything it should have been in the initial design process, but that's irrelevant now. I realize there are a huge number of things that must come first, but there's also no harm in planting these seeds Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radubadu Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I realize there are a huge number of things that must come first, but there's also no harm in planting these seeds Cheers! Totally agree... so... has anyone put it on the suggestion board? I only ask because it seems people are quick to come here and complain without taking the necessary steps to let the devs know it's an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matteis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) The devs failed miserably in this department, yep. The worlds are lifeless, the segregation of players with the lame *** loading screens and boxed-in areas. Where did all that money go? Oh yeah, the voice acted scenes that everyone spacebars through. Edited February 11, 2012 by Matteis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotsonik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Totally agree... so... has anyone put it on the suggestion board? I only ask because it seems people are quick to come here and complain without taking the necessary steps to let the devs know it's an issue. Not sure actually, but we can definitely flag this thread for movement. Hopefully we can keep it constructive Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radubadu Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Not sure actually, but we can definitely flag this thread for movement. Hopefully we can keep it constructive Cheers! K I don't know how to do that... so have at it!!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Go to Corusant and look up. If that doesn't make you feel like your in an actual city I don't know what to tell you. Furthermore if proper immersion can be accomplished with a few background sound effects, as posters suggest over and over in this thread, the issue shouldn't be all that difficult to address. Go to Croissant and look up. . . and you'll see the top of the narrow hallway that you are in. Oh, sure, there is a small section that has 2 quest givers and a lot of open space near the senate tower and starport that has a bunch of vehicle traffic in the sky around it. It's only 1 place, that place is not where you actually spend any time other than the time it takes to run through it, and the "life" is not actually in the area where you are. (Do you run around looking up the whole time?) Don't get me wrong, I do think that they got that aspect of the design right. But it is a very small, single exception. It is not the rule. Edited February 11, 2012 by Vodalus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So I have always felt, since beta anyway, that the swtor world felt dead. Not just in the number of players but the environments. Lifeless cities. No ambient sound. Well played the Tera beta the last 24 hours straight and it confirms these feelings even more. The cities feel so alive. Players are everywhere. Sounds of city life, crafting, players dueling in the dueling ring. I actually felt like part of an MMO WORLD. The list goes on and on. Yes it has flaws too (Korean) just makes me hope and some point Swtor will feel more alive. BTW can you believe the UI in TERA? OMG that is the most feature rich, movable and scalable ui I've ever seen out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickletime Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 from this specific aspect i cant WAIT for gw2, i wish tor and gw2 could make a baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoteknate Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) If the "issue" with lifelessness is that the Hero engine as it is now cannot support the huge change it would take for the planets to seem alive then we may need to wait awhile. Till the engine has evolved enough to support this. I am sure the dev team is aware the player base would like to see more NPCs walking and talking. And more little creatures moving around. Edited February 11, 2012 by Geoteknate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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