Why Ranged Classes Dominate This Game and Why It needs a fix

[Caribroo]

Resolve doesnt affect snares. It's quite the oversight.

[Krionic]

Playing a melee class who heavily relies on snares I can only say that having people IMMUNE to them would make everything ALOT worse for me. This is not needed. D/R on roots is something else, as it renders melee completely unable to do anything, while ranged can still cast at their leisure.

 

Right, do you want dominance in every aspect? Obviously a ranged classes advantage comes from being at range. But, if melee all have stuff that renders that gap useless then you are never at a disadvantage. I mean, you can beat me up at melee distance and all my long cast time skills are interrupted or pushed back puting me at a disadvantage. since, i cannot melee you and you probably wear better armor and have more hp's. In this game, melee is better than all. You have tons of gap closers like force jump/pull and snares etc. At some point, a ranged dps needs to have an advantage.

[Mannic]

Right, do you want dominance in every aspect? Obviously a ranged classes advantage comes from being at range. But, if melee all have stuff that renders that gap useless then you are never at a disadvantage. I mean, you can beat me up at melee distance and all my long cast time skills are interrupted or pushed back puting me at a disadvantage. since, i cannot melee you and you probably wear better armor and have more hp's. In this game, melee is better than all. You have tons of gap closers like force jump/pull and snares etc. At some point, a ranged dps needs to have an advantage.

 

Actually, melee classes in PvP in TOR are no more likely to have better armor than ranged classes.

[Assaultrooper]

L O S counts aswell for melee, never met players who did LOS you so you cant charge.

 

no L O S cant be taken in consideration. Besides been so situational, it cant be done 1v1 u cant LOS effectively as a jugg say dps why? because u die THAT FAST! even with BM gear u die surprisingly fast (BM vs BM that is) theres no time to L O S.

 

as for the OP I mostly agree, and the thread applies to a fight melee vs sniper, but the one thing that I think he didnt consider is that another counter to snaring are interrupts. I believe from a design perspective interrupts = snares, and stuns = roots for melee vs range. I think the parallel is pretty obvious but lets put it out. When a range snares u its in a short cooldown, and will make u not able to attack them for a short period of time. (But with the draw back they might need to move) The whole point of interrupts is to prevent them from attacking you, (with the drawback of it been only one skill shutdown, HOWEVER it has the pro that u can dps full while interrupting).

 

cheers and g luck guys

[nodq]

i don't think ranged classes are OP... not really. the only thing that needs a fix is these *********** knockbacks on almost every class on such a low cooldown. there 2 out of 8 classes which do not have a knockback, right? Thats stupid like ****.

 

Especially in huttball, nothing more annoying than knocked around like a ping pong ball.

[mBass]

Let's make snipers go from the least played class to the not played class. Marauders and assassins are clearly underrepresented in warzones.

[JuicyFruits]

i don't think ranged classes are OP... not really. the only thing that needs a fix is these *********** knockbacks on almost every class on such a low cooldown. there 2 out of 8 classes which do not have a knockback, right? Thats stupid like ****.

 

Especially in huttball, nothing more annoying than knocked around like a ping pong ball.

 

Huttball can be so frustrating. Its very poor map design, IMO, to focus so damn much on platforms when 80% of your classes get access to short CD KBs.

 

I think there should be an additional path, that takes longer but stays on the ground. This would give players that get knocked down a "second chance" to join the fight.

 

I'm thinking about maybe an elevator, on the sides where the "fences" are (near the HP powerups.) This elevator would be VERY slow, but it would allow people to cross the fence and rejoin the fight.

 

I dont know, I'm not a map designer.

[Jesmcalli]

Where do you people keep coming up with this nonsense? As a sniper, the only reason I fight any melee classes toe to toe is because kiting doesn't exist for my class. The only reason I win some of those is because of gear..... even with that advantage, a shadow/assassin can roll right over me without any effort at all. To add insult to injury, even when it looks like I'm about to win a 1 on 1 at close range, most melee can just vanish into thin air... either to open on me again or run off and lick their wounds.

 

Confine your complaints to sorcerers/sages or learn how to play your class and accept its limitations.

 

 

It's not like you don't have tools to keep melee at ranged and crit their faces off or anything. On top of that, most of your abilities aren't very visible, so in the thick of a fight it's entirely possible a Sniper/GS could be stuffed in a corner, plinking away. One could argue that you need to learn to play your class/accept it's limitations as well.

[mBass]

It's not like you don't have tools to keep melee at ranged and crit their faces off or anything. On top of that, most of your abilities aren't very visible, so in the thick of a fight it's entirely possible a Sniper/GS could be stuffed in a corner, plinking away. One could argue that you need to learn to play your class/accept it's limitations as well.

 

Yes.. if one had no idea what they were talking about then they could argue that... but they'd still be wrong. We have exactly 0 tools to *keep* melee at range.

 

As far as not being visible, yeah I guess that big glowing 'come kill me' sign in front of any sniper in cover is pretty subtle.. ... ..... .. .

Edited February 12, 2012 by mBass

[BobaFurz]

People complain about too much CC in swtor and this has a reason.

 

Like the OP on some pages before described:

 

 

SWTOR HAS NO DIMINISHING RETURNS at all

 

 

All we have is a resolve bar wich just accumulates cc abilities until its full and the player is immune.

 

What is flawed about it:

 

* you can chain cc with the same abilities

* no diminishing returns

* not all cc abilities are regarded into the resolve bar system

 

 

What we need and what we get with a change ?

 

 

* less cc in general in group pvp

* diminishing returns on individual spells and not accumulated into a bar

* a lot better group pvp

* better class balance for those who suffer most from cc

* more skill needed to play classes

Edited February 12, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Jesmcalli]

Yes.. if one had no idea what they were talking about then they could argue that... but they'd still be wrong. We have exactly 0 tools to *keep* melee at range.

 

As far as not being visible, yeah I guess that big glowing 'come kill me' sign in front of any sniper in cover is pretty subtle.. ... ..... .. .

 

 

You don't have a stun grenade? A root? Pretty sure I've seen Snipers use those quite effectively.

[mBass]

You don't have a stun grenade? A root? Pretty sure I've seen Snipers use those quite effectively.

 

we have a mezz grenade and a root that both break on damage... so they're not *keeping* anyone at range.. unless we're running away and haven't dotted them.

[Jesmcalli]

we have a mezz grenade and a root that both break on damage... so they're not *keeping* anyone at range.. unless we're running away and haven't dotted them.

 

Okay, and I've seen Snipers throw down some pretty sick damage in that timeframe. Sick enough to where if you're a melee without a CC break on CD, you're going to be hurting.

[mBass]

Okay, and I've seen Snipers throw down some pretty sick damage in that timeframe. Sick enough to where if you're a melee without a CC break on CD, you're going to be hurting.

 

What time frame?... they break on damage so if I'm laying down sick damage it's the exact same damage I would have laid down if I had just started shooting. That isn't to say they don't have other uses... like mezzing a group of people waiting to kill a ball handler at the end of a ramp or trapping someone in flames.... but useful for keeping melee off of us they aren't.

[mufutiz]

Marauders are the 1v1 king (they only had Ops/smgl to hold them back) and are a valuable asset to any team hoping to win a WZ, OP but not broken (maybe a little), a good marauder can easily take on any good merc because of its awesome burst and survivability.

 

The reason marauders can take on mercs is not their burst (mercs have far better and easier applied burst). It's interrupts and this is the way it has to be because someone has to keep them in check ;-)

 

Also people need to stop with the MARAUDERS BEAT EVRYONE IN 1on1 OMG. They're far from unbeatable actually.

If a marauder consistently beats hybrid PTs and assasins, full tanks of any class or even a hybrid combat medic those classes were not controlled by an equally skilled/geared player. It's that simple really.

 

 

1v1 doesn't matter anywaythough. If a marauder blows all his cds in a 1on1 situation it's GG for the next time he stumbles upon a group pvp situation and gets focused down within 5 seconds. That's what those CDs are there for. Surving group combat where no other class makes such a great target as a marauder - and such an obvious one. Nobody enjoys beating on tanks, nobody sees the stealthies coming. But that guy with the two bright glowing sticks in his hands, who is ALWAYS in the fray, targetable and reachable by everyone from 30 meters away because he has no other choice? Yeah let's shoot at that one.

 

the punch line being: This game is about teamplay and group combat more than any other game I ever played.

 

As a Full BM geared Merc i can say confidently that i cannot beat a GOOD Marauder 1v1 in a flat fighting area.

 

Every pvp map in this game offers amazing options for ranged classes to LoS and otherwise annoy melee classes(even the side nodes in alderaan are enough to deny a force leap after a knockback)

 

Melee is not weak in this game. I know i never want to see a full team of Marauders ever.

 

melee is not weak in and by itself. The pvp map design just heavily favors ranged. There is no denying. Voidstar maybe not so much but at worst it's balanced, completely offset by Huttball.

 

PvP in this game is all about teamplay and marauders are hardy overpowered in a group setting. They are pretty well balanced, imo. If anything they might need a little help in toning down some of the more ridiculous CC in the game (this counts for all classes though, everyone will profit)

Edited February 12, 2012 by mufutiz

[maximusedward]

Let's make snipers go from the least played class to the not played class. Marauders and assassins are clearly underrepresented in warzones.

Agreed last I checked the only ranged class that dominated this game are sorc/sages due to healing and speed boost combined with a shield, the perfect ingredients for kitting.

Last time I tried to kite a sentinel he chocked and slam my *** to ground and afterward leaped toward me while he was immune to cc.

Not to mention the stealth class can go invisible whenever they want.

melee have the same cc has the ranged combined with pulls and leaps and some have a ridiculous single target knockback that can knock you across the map some melee even have a ranged stun? ***? Im ranged and I dont even have a ranged stun.

You would think as a sniper you would have the longest range ingame? Every melee in this game has at least on cc or more that has the same range has a sniper.

Edited February 12, 2012 by maximusedward

[Wakantanka]

Uh.. what?

 

Just because you have to get into position before you can damage us doesn't mean we enjoy 100% defense against you. On top of that, what you're suggesting is ridiculous. Attacking unwitting targets from range is the sniper/gunslinger's bread and butter. Why should people like you be immune to that because you don't want to learn your class?

 

Ummmm, If you can hit me and I can't hit you back that is the definition of 100% defense. However many seconds it take me to "get back into position" or in normal speak, get into melee range, you have a 100% defense against me, while at the same time I have just my normal defense against your damage, therein lies the problem.

[mBass]

Ummmm, If you can hit me and I can't hit you back that is the definition of 100% defense. However many seconds it take me to "get back into position" or in normal speak, get into melee range, you have a 100% defense against me, while at the same time I have just my normal defense against your damage, therein lies the problem.

 

It's only a problem if you're afk or if you don't know how to move. Despite what you people are saying, melee utterly destroys equally geared ranged classes when you're in melee range.

[Mohawksinspace]

Agreed last I checked the only ranged class that dominated this game are sorc/sages due to healing and speed boost combined with a shield, the perfect ingredients for kitting.

 

You've never seen a sniper who knows what they are doing.

 

 

Last time I tried to kite a sentinel he chocked and slam my *** to ground and afterward leaped toward me while he was immune to cc.

 

And what, you just sat there and took it?

 

 

Not to mention the stealth class can go invisible whenever they want.

 

Not how that works.

 

melee have the same cc has the ranged combined with pulls and leaps and some have a ridiculous single target knockback that can knock you across the map some melee even have a ranged stun? ***? Im ranged and I dont even have a ranged stun.

 

/sigh all classes have these abilities.

 

You would think as a sniper you would have the longest range ingame? Every melee in this game has at least on cc or more that has the same range has a sniper.

 

30 (Ranged)>10 (Melee 'ranged' attacks)

[mBass]

You've never seen a sniper who knows what they are doing.

 

Yeah that's why snipers are the most played class... oh wait.

[Mohawksinspace]

Yeah that's why snipers are the most played class... oh wait.

 

ROFL Thats such a weak arguement. The most played classes are the ones with the most lightsabers.

[mBass]

ROFL Thats such a weak arguement. The most played classes are the ones with the most lightsabers.

 

Like troopers, bounty hunters and ops/scoundrels pre-nerf... oh wait. If snipers were dominating pvp you'd see more than one of them per match.

[maximusedward]

You've never seen a sniper who knows what they are doing.

Any snipers that gets no attention on battlefield will give the illusion of being awesome.

 

And what, you just sat there and took it?

my class allows me to cast a bubble that can absorb tons of dmg while casting heals and dashing forward like the wind. snipers have so much mobility we can instantly teleport in-front of you, break your los and heal ourselves.

 

 

 

/sigh all classes have these abilities.

/sigh last i checked my snipers didnt have a ranged stun, a single target chain ranged root that didnt break on dmg but dealt dmg, a single target long range knock back that didnt require a 1.5/2.5 casting time, nor a single target pull. Neither do we wear heavy armor.

 

30 (Ranged)>10 (Melee 'ranged' attacks)

yep because it requires you to take 3 steps or a leap to get with 20meter

 

 

lets see

assasins/shadows same cc as their counterparts range stuns, range snare/roots, and a dash ability combined with some range defense abilities

not to mention they have the option of stealthing out of battle while activating a 1min cd skill that makes them immune to any dmg for 3 sec.

 

sith warriors/jeddi knights best know for their leaps and 2 sec knockbacks which is pretty much a 5 sec stun combined with the animations.

marauders/sentinels can go invisible which gives them a bonus in movement speed and they also have the ability to trade off 50% of their hp for a 99% dmg reduction, so if youre thinking hey this guys has 10% hp left he will be an easy kill then you're wrong that is only the beginning of the fight.

 

last but not least the infamous scoundrel/operatives

the only melee class that has no gap closer like a leap, dash, or a pull but makes up for with heals and stealth.

 

Swtor melee class are like melee for dummies with so much counter cc.

 

the only ranged class that dominates in this game are sorcs/sages which comes to no surprise when BW made WaR and "BWs" dominated.

 

I also like the fact that op forgot to mention most of the range massive dmg abilities comes from casted abilities.

Edited February 12, 2012 by maximusedward

[Mycrof]

Double the speed resolve builds up and/or triple the time you become cc immune. Let melee do about 5 to 10% more damage versus ranged, problem solved.

[maximusedward]

Double the speed resolve builds up and/or triple the time you become cc immune. Let melee do about 5 to 10% more damage versus ranged, problem solved.

so what youre saying is we should turn every melee class into a scoundrel/OPS?

so for every five seconde you are away from me I should only be able to cast 2 skills while when youre in range you should be able to deal the same with no casting required and 5/10% more dmg?