Why Ranged Classes Dominate This Game and Why It needs a fix

[Zlashie]

Precisely, as a ranged unless you've got some sort of terrain that allows you to manage the relentless assault of melees you're ****ed. They have way more tools to stay on you and keep you snared rooted controlled interrupted than you have to get them off you.

 

Unless there's a severe gear imbalance in favor of the ranged, the ranged will always have to outplay the melee in order to win, it really is that simple, in any no brainer "bash good" contest the melees will always win.

 

BY THE WAY I am not counting sage/sorc as rangeds, they count as clowns, their own category.

 

It seems like the problem at hand are that some classes have too much utility whilst others have little to non.

 

If you compare the available utility of a shadow with that of a scoundrel, the scoundrel is laughable.

 

Scoundrels have no knockback. Shadows do

Scoundrels have no sprint. Shadows do

Scoundrels have no slow. Shadows do

 

They have a shorttime root

and they have stuns. But stuns is limited so that is not a reliable utility.

 

Another example is that ranged classes come out as OP when the problem infact might be sorc/sages that bring so much utility + healing + dps that they overshadow the other ranged classes.

 

As an example this is the combination which the sage/sorc has:

 

Knockback

Stun

Slow

Root

Breakable CC

Shield

Heal

Damage

 

In which it gets worse because a few of these are combined into 1 ability (slow + damage for instance).

 

Whilst other ranged classes do not have this.

 

Discuss!

[Jahor]

Didn't even read becouse of terrible font size and color.

Tip: never use a font size that big where two lines overlap each other!

 

 

But playing a meele with that many skills you need to use is just terrible if you don't have 20 fingers and 4 arms. OR uses macros/key mappers which combine 10 attacks to 1 key.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Jahor

[Nerithiel]

Step 1: Roll a Juggernat

Step 2: Make Rage spec ( learn to play the spec)

Step 3: Roll Biochem

Step 4: Pop up Adrenal with your rakata Stim

Step 5: Charge on the range and dish some dmg and get high crits.

 

Problem solved

[Zlashie]

Didn't even read becouse of terrible font size and color.

Tip: never use a font size that big where two lines overlap each other!

 

 

But playing a meele with that many skills you need to use is just terrible if you don't have 20 fingers and 4 arms. OR uses macros/key mappers which combine 10 attacks to 1 key.

 

Fixed. You can now enjoy reading the post without overlaping text.

[Borygmos]

in games like wow melee are typically given more damage and utility to make up for the fact that they will often be forced to close distances in both pvp and pve, take for example having to run out of a boss aoe then back in, melee have to make up for that damage, in world of warcraft warrior had utility charge intercept, intimidating shout, pummel (wich affected spell scools rather than 1 move) and was able to do significant chunks of damage to its target after each charge, rogue was the same way, starting ontop of people via stealth, multiple stuns, blind, sprint, cloak of shadows, just to name a few non talented answers

[ChrisJSY]

If there's one thing I've noticed in 10-12 years for MMOs and "mass pvp" of any sorts is that ranged is king.

 

Unless one side is getting zerg stomped, if there are two big balls of opposing factions, (you will always see youtube vids of this) ranged are duking it with an invisible line between them, it's called no mans land.

 

The same that was used for trench warfare in WW1, the problem is that if one person, for example a melee player steps out of line into no mans land, you stick out like a sore thumb to the enemy and everyone targets you.

 

Again, just like NML, if everyone else doesn't get up and charge at the same time, you can't do anything.

 

 

There's an over reliance on other people as a melee player, as well as a reliance on healers because more than anything these are the guys (melee) that get hurt the most and quickest.

 

 

In small scale encounters it's better but even then, the last few days in warzones I've seen 7 Knights of varying specs vs a full sorc/bh team, it's incredible how little we can do.

Scaling more ranged dps/healers is out of whack than scaling another melee class.

 

It's why I'm rolling ranged from now on in other MMOs, it's too easy; far far too easy and most importantly, to me it's more fun.

I'm not going to carry on being that guy who has to run out of the pack to get mass targeted, then die and everyone else then decides to attack and miss out of all the kill gains while the ranged sit back and pew pew with little to no fear.

 

 

Edit: Oh yes, and knockbacks/slows are a dozen times more potent to a melee players than a ranged, the fact is I can be permanently slowed whilst in return I cannot permanently be up in someones face, it's a strange tactic to give ranged the ability to do this whilst having the advantage of ranged in the first place, knock em back? Who cares, just use your 30-35m range.

Edited February 11, 2012 by ChrisJSY

[mordredz]

Meh. Makes it all the more awesome when you reach that pesky ranged and smash his face in anyways. There are also plenty of line of sight tactics you can use to draw them in to you.

 

Risking being called a troll.... Learn to play????

 

Agree it is a LOS thing, if your not using it and crying in a HUGE post on the forums then Learn2play...

 

+1

 

Have zero issues killing ranged on my jugg/shadow/mara if you know how to play and use the surroundings to your advantage...

[Sookster]

Just about every MMO game out there is range > melee, in City of Heroes before the pvp change (Issue 12), before that patch melee could easily dominate range but not anymore with the auto snare upon attack and healing. Tabula Rasa was another decent game that melee could keep up with ranged, guardian was awesome. In early SWG (pre-CU), melee was the better choice due to higher damage output, that of course changed with the CU and NGE.

 

BH and trooper can pick up that snare from pyro/assault specialist and VG/PT even has one for shield spec which reapplies over and over with the standard shots. I'm seeing 9 out of 10 players in warzones (all 3) are more range than melee, except on a blue moon where a PUG happens to be a bunch of lightsaber wielding force jumpers.

 

The amount of CC is ridiculous in this game, last night a few of us were constantly chain stunned, I was literally stunned for a solid 15 seconds and died in that time. Not to mention the constant knockback, knockback knockback, it never ends.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Ellvaan
used "retard" (pm'd)

[ImSaved]

75% of classes having an AoE knockback on a 20s CD is whats wrong with range vs. melee.

[Mooseb]

When a Ranged class is Stunned: Cannot Attack

When a Ranged class is Rooted: Can Attack Snipers/Gunslingers Cant take cover while rooted

 

When a Ranged class is Knockedback: Momentarely unable to attack

when a Ranged class is Slowed: Can Attack Snipers/Gunslingers still can't take cover while slowed

 

Fixed a few points

[Torcer]

Ranged classes dominate in games for the same reason they do in real life:

 

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

[Mosene]

I have no problem with range douches in this game really, I know most are bad but they still managed to do alot of stuff because it's easy for them in random warzons, I see them climbing some crap and spam lightning/tracer/snipe and I always love to single them out and smash their face in.

 

In organized premade PVP badies get ***** anyway, no one is going to let some dude stay on a ledge and spam stuff.

 

So yeah they mostly get top dps in WZ, who cares really? See you in rated in the near future;)

[prodarkwolf]

yes, meles autoatack(spameable atack) MUST have 30 yards like operative one, it do crap dmg but at least can do something when u are chasing the sissy rangedd(90%time)

 

and the break cc ability HAVE TO give us an inmunity to every cc for 5 secs at least, is too stupid that u brak a stun and get restuned again.

 

oh, and knowback, must go out. why every ranged have knowback but only tanks have sumons?? if every ranged have ae knowback every mele have to get a sumon, is comon sense.

[Mosene]

/2char Edited February 11, 2012 by Mosene

[vedranpauk]

LoS in hutball? anyone?

[Mosene]

yes, meles autoatack(spameable atack) MUST have 30 yards like operative one, it do crap dmg but at least can do something when u are chasing the sissy rangedd(90%time)

 

and the break cc ability HAVE TO give us an inmunity to every cc for 5 secs at least, is too stupid that u brak a stun and get restuned again.

 

oh, and knowback, must go out. why every ranged have knowback but only tanks have sumons?? if every ranged have ae knowback every mele have to get a sumon, is comon sense.

 

As mara they can't do **** to you, pretty sure other classes have other tools too.I charge they knockback>deadly throw root, they stun>unleash, cover pulse> camouflage and get back in there. Not to mention the allmighty cripling slash permaslow with no cd.You just need to have half brain, use all your skills fast and specc for PVP. Easy.

[jcyrus]

Honestly, as a Marauder I don't feel like I'm at a disadvantage to ranged classes at all.

 

I have numerous tools at my disposal to close the gap. I can Force Charge every 12seconds, specced to root them for 3seconds. Even if they knock me back they aren't going to get far. I can use Force Camouflage, which is good for closing a gap in addition to an escape. I can use Predation, which is specced to 80% speed boost.

 

As soon as I get near a ranged player I hit them with a snare, and as soon as that snare hits they aren't going to get away unless either they or their teammates kill me.

 

Of course, I haven't tried the other melee classes to any great extend, so perhaps I'm just not seeing it on my particular class.

[prodarkwolf]

oh, then meles must be GODS of pvp and have pvp gear, talents etc, only to have a chance to kill a noob ranged on greens and spaming 1 botom?

 

my main is a gunslinger, but i have a sentinel 50 too so no, im not a melee criying for nerfs but i think everything that i said is fair.

 

meles must do higher dmg because have less uptime, but everyone would whine on that so both do the same dps but meles have less uptime.

and they give an aoe knowback to every ranged to make the diference bigger and u say me that it is fair??

[KrotanaThrall]

Step 1: Roll a Marauder

Step 2: Spend time figuring out what you're doing (10 mins - eternity, your results will vary)

Step 3: Melt face

Step 4: die before you melt faces since someone comes into the 30m range and fires at you

Step 5: you notice that ranged classes dps you down faster than you can down them yourself

 

This is at least the problem for this class at lvl 30-40.

 

I've played a Vanguard and a Commando now to 50 (well the Commando is only 49) and a well played Sent/Marauder Can Absolutely Destroy you. I've seen lev 12 Sents deal upwards of 300k damage in a single match with only 3 deaths. I've had my *** handed to me more times then I can count by them unless I'm being backed up by teammates. Yes I can still win in a 1v1 match with one but even the matches I'm winning are close and come down to timing and GCDS

[Zunayson]

Knockbacks affect resolve. Go Electrocute and then Overload, or even debilitate/Flashbang and then Cover pulse

 

Also, breakable CCs are known as Mezzes (I've heard "Mez" as well).

 

EDIT: Also, note that snipers cannot enter cover while rooted (100% snare). That puts them at a disadvantage, so really if snipers get knockback'd/taken out of cover + rooted, they can't do damage for the root duration either.

 

DOUBLE EDIT: Also note that a sniper's range is 35 meters, not even just 30.

 

Snares are the only thing that doesn't affect resolve.

 

I think that giving melee classes a low cooldown slow will help

 

I know that the operative has sever tendon, a 12 second 50% snare... at a 12 second cooldown. So you can constantly control the enemy. Concealment (Knife stealth spec) can spec the first 2 seconds into a root. Force speed? Root. Snipers Root as well. So maybe if jedi knight classes could maybe throw their lightsabers at the leg of a target and put them at 50% movement speed? Have this on a low cooldown, so it can be used as a normal kiting move, like Sever Tendon or Leg Shot for the sniper

Edited February 11, 2012 by Zunayson

[carliiiiito]

i play a marauder anni spec lvl 25,if i dont get rooted/slowed/knockbaked i just wreck people.so imo,if u add limits to those form of cc..melee will be way too powerful .

[Spuck]

From what I have seen, if a melee gets in range and stays in range for any length of time... range class is generally toast.

[Jadeor]

 

I know that the operative has sever tendon, a 12 second 50% snare... at a 12 second cooldown. So you can constantly control the enemy. Concealment (Knife stealth spec) can spec the first 2 seconds into a root. Force speed? Root. Snipers Root as well. So maybe if jedi knight classes could maybe throw their lightsabers at the leg of a target and put them at 50% movement speed? Have this on a low cooldown, so it can be used as a normal kiting move, like Sever Tendon or Leg Shot for the sniper

 

any decent sorc would go "cleanse" --> knockback --> snare you, and you are unable to hit em untill you caught up, which can take up to 10sec depening on his kiting skills... makes me cry :s, same for BH's really..

Edited February 11, 2012 by Jadeor

[Jestunhi]

I just like to point out that the thread I made is a list of mathematics and numbers. Numbers never lie

 

If 10% of traffic accidents are caused by alcohol (made up figure) then 90% are caused by sober people. So we should ban driving without alcohol.

 

Numbers can be made to mean almost anything and they can certainly lie.

[Tattum]

lol i`m dps jugg and i never have problem to keep the close distance. of course when i`m beeing rooted/stunned/knocked back by 2-3 players , then yes... but one simply cannot kill 3 skilled players anyway..

 

but on 1v1 agaisnt ranged i usually win with enough hit points..

 

 

 

but i see your point.. but have in mind that it takes YEARS to balance classes into the way they are totalycomparable