Pulpp Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 i played: eq1 at launch and it wasn't terrible uo at launch and it wasn't terrible ac1 at launch and it wasn't terrible daoc at launch and it was terrible swg at launch at it wasn't terrible vanguard at launch and it wasn't terrible but all recent mmo's have been terrible at launch: swtor aoc WAR rift aion It's because WoW came out in the middle there, and in came the greedy big corporations with $ signs in their eyes trying to copy WoW by pushing out inferior, unfinished games as fast as they can to get max profits. Then after a few months they all wonder where the **** all their players went and just blame the players "it's just today's player". Well it's not, it's today's mmo is just cheap **** that focuses too much on pretty graphics, voiceovers etc at the expense of gameplay. I actually think it's the demographic that's changed -- if you want to keep ALL your players relatively happy, you can't have gameplay that "punishes" a loss in pvp. That means no more risk, which really dulls the edge. Even Origin caved pretty quick to the whiners. When you have risk+reward in pvp (provided the gameplay mechanics are fun), the content just builds itself from the player base (tourneys, PKs/Anti-PKs, raids on areas, towns, militias, etc). UO and SWG got this bang on, which is why they are generally remember favorably, but they also appealed to a comparatively smaller market. So now every new MMO seems to cater to this pansy crowd, with on-rails content, clear dividers, grind mechanics and absolutely no risk in order to get a piece of the WoW pie. I don't know if we will ever get a quality pvp (player vs player - in any manner they choose to interact) MMO again. I hope so, but I am not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) It may have small issues to start, but GW2 will be working better on day 1 than most that have been out a while. If THAT is working as intended, I'd rather play runescape Edited February 9, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShottyTheShotgun Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Warhammer Online has one server . . . Mythic did Warhammer Online . . . Mythic now works for Bioware . . . Warhammer Online had better PvP at release . . . Good luck to those who make cry posts about people crying while pretending they don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebi Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) If THAT is working as intended, I'd rather play runescape And i'd rather play SWTOR. HAHAHAHAHA. /jokes. But seriously, at least guild wars will have WORLD PVP at release, as well as COMPETITIVE PVP. So it's already miles ahead of SWTOR at this point. Unless your idea of world pvp is clicking on crates and kill trading. Edited February 9, 2012 by Jebi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) And i'd rather play SWTOR. HAHAHAHAHA. /jokes. So then clearly, in your opinion, crysis is the greatest game ever made right? Makes GW2 look like minecraft Edited February 9, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I actually think it's the demographic that's changed -- if you want to keep ALL your players relatively happy, you can't have gameplay that "punishes" a loss in pvp. That means no more risk, which really dulls the edge. Even Origin caved pretty quick to the whiners. *snip* I'll concede that point! Many ex-wow kids fancy themselves pvp'ers now when they're really pve'ers who like to do warzones for l33t gear and other rewards. For old school pvp'ers pvp was the reward itself! I really think mmo's could cater to all crowds with adding more server rulesets instead of just pve and pvp. Would it really kill them to have servers like: Pve only pve with warzones only pve with flags and warzones only pvp open world faction vs faction with guards in cities pvp open world faction vs faction with no guards pvp hardcore (open world free for all, no guards, no warzones (can attack anyone anywhere)) etc etc etc Edited February 9, 2012 by Evuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Its long, sorry. On this topic, if you played GW1, even out of the gate, you know this is a far cry from the truth. It may have small issues to start, but GW2 will be working better on day 1 than most that have been out a while. Hence its constantly pushed back release and beta test number 6 now... I played WoW on release for years, GW on release for a while, AoC on release, Rift, Aion and TCoS, and Fury. Now-a-days each company faces release dates that are ahead of when they will be ready strictly because of funding. They need to release a game before "X" date in order to not go bankrupt. This usually leads to games that have a lot of bugs, issues, balance problems and lack of content for the first 6-12 months. When people get sick of issues, they leave for old games or new ones on the horizon. WoW broke a mold and created a new user friendly popular game that set a standard. However, few recall the first days when it was rife with problems and balance issues. Most dont even know or recall raids and PvP didnt come out for the first 3-6 months. Before that you had TM/SS fights and leveling PvP on PvP servers. "Raiding" UBRS and doing tribute runs... WoW is now polished and every game gets compared to it. Why play a game with tons of bugs when you get to play one that works over there? That's the mentality of most people, like it or not. GW on release offered PvP instantly max level and PvE that lead to PvP by lvl 20 as well. Instant PvP at max level offered completely balanced gear and skills. Teamwork and skill made up the only factor in wins vs loss really. Eventually people got the "Elite Skills" from boons in leveling that transferred to PvP character. These had some good utility, but didnt even come close to breaking the game. People without Elite skills could still compete equally more or less. The rest of the games I listed all are in the same boat at WoW release and SWTOR. Issues abound and will mostly all get dealt with over time, but a lot of people wont pay $15/mo to beta test for 1 year. Also, I haven't played WoW in years, and I am no fan boy of any game. I just want fun, balance and lowest hit to my wallet for that. SWTOR has a lot of high points, but lots of low points. Worst thing so far is lack of communication regarding the devs thoughts, ideas, and direction especially in regards to PvP. Lots of ninja nerfs and fixes are also an issue... and nerfs or buffs that seemingly do the opposite after patches. Just want to point out this is a very good post, you are the 1% of forum posters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebi Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) So then clearly, in your opinion, crysis is the greatest game ever made right? Makes GW2 look like minecraft How cute, I thought TOR fanboys were extinct? And it's also precious how all YOU took from the video was omg gw2 has heaps better graphics. Hint: gameplay. Also see: PVP content (lots of other video's out there). Edited February 9, 2012 by Jebi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScytheNoire Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Don't forget all the hacking going on in PvP that is ruining the game. It's not like customer service is doing anything to stop it. With so much client side, they would have to rewrite the code to fix these problems. This is the same thing causing the skill delay. It's all due to bad design and coding. You don't run an online game client side. That's just a hackers dream. But that's what we have in SWTOR. It's a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Don't forget all the hacking going on in PvP that is ruining the game. It's not like customer service is doing anything to stop it. With so much client side, they would have to rewrite the code to fix these problems. This is the same thing causing the skill delay. It's all due to bad design and coding. You don't run an online game client side. That's just a hackers dream. But that's what we have in SWTOR. It's a mess. essentially they chose a bad engine and ran with it, and they won't be fixing the engine, fail engine is there to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 agreed The games only been out for like 2months almost. People need to calm down But there's NO end game content bar Ilum and everyone agrees that it's awful. They've lost a LOT of money from poor sales so how are they going to overhaul it the PvP system? It's not that this game feels unpolished but just incomplete. Feels like a Beta. You hit L50 and for a PvPer feel ... 'Ok, that was fun now where's the rest of the game?' or 'This game has a lot of potential for when the full-version is released!' WoW is currently the most successful MMORPG ever. From a BUSINESS perspective I'd look at them, see what they do good and want to do it better. Match the competition and do what they do better. Simple stuff. This game is just full of holes, though. Guild banks, etc. Why isn't this standard? Guilds are a pointless thing currently apart from making it easier to find people to do heroics with pre-50 or make pre-mades for PvP. If this didn't have the 'StarWars' label then it'd already be dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fest Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 GW on release offered PvP instantly max level and PvE that lead to PvP by lvl 20 as well. Instant PvP at max level offered completely balanced gear and skills. Teamwork and skill made up the only factor in wins vs loss really. Eventually people got the "Elite Skills" from boons in leveling that transferred to PvP character. These had some good utility, but didnt even come close to breaking the game. People without Elite skills could still compete equally more or less. Lol, if you think GW was balanced in any sense of the word, then you're delusional. If you didn't have the right class composition then you were totally screwed(I couldn't go in with all of one single class and beat a team that had a good balance of classes). And that is the meaning of the word unbalanced. People that complain about gear in games like SWTOR or WoW obviously don't want to put any time into their character and if this is the case, why play an RPG at all if you don't want to progress your character? Gear is so easy to obtain in this game that it really is a non-factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashgan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This is correct - only new players can be that naive they believe their "i'm un-subbing" can change anything. Veterans leave silently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 People that complain about gear in games like SWTOR or WoW obviously don't want to put any time into their character and if this is the case, why play an RPG at all if you don't want to progress your character? Gear is so easy to obtain in this game that it really is a non-factor. Gear treadmills break competitive pvp. If developers aren't going to create a competitive pvp environment, they should leave it out of the game altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Lol, if you think GW was balanced in any sense of the word, then you're delusional. If you didn't have the right class composition then you were totally screwed(I couldn't go in with all of one single class and beat a team that had a good balance of classes). And that is the meaning of the word unbalanced. People that complain about gear in games like SWTOR or WoW obviously don't want to put any time into their character and if this is the case, why play an RPG at all if you don't want to progress your character? Gear is so easy to obtain in this game that it really is a non-factor. How much can you actually progress ... ? The balance issues for GW2 they've said are going to be addressed. Maybe they will, maybe they won't but speculation about how good/bad GW2 will or won't be doesn't take away from the fact that this game's PvP is AWFUL. 'Meh meh meh ... PvPers looking for experience that'll never happen ... meh meh meh' Not reeeally but 3 WZs and no OWPvP (Ilum doesn't count as anything apart from a free migraine)? The Devs MAY have said this would be a story-driven MMO. They also said we'd be blown away by the OWPvP element. I'm certainly something by the OWPvP but blown away or in any good direction is not it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Maybe they were misquoted? I can understand if they were quoted as saying "blown away" when they really said "blows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This is correct - only new players can be that naive they believe their "i'm un-subbing" can change anything. Veterans leave silently. I think many are (I'll admit I am) still in the denial phase that an MMO can die this fast which has a StarWars label. 5 years = 20 months per WZ for the team PvP ... you seriously think Huttball vindicates 20months worth of work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawfox Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 People who like the game will pay and log in on the game and play People who don't like the game will pay and log on the forums and whine Working as intended true Actually i hate swtor really hard because the last warzone made me. There is no PvP in this game as long as there is these lags. Nobody can show up any skills at all, if you hit that darn button and 4(!!) seconds late, the knockback finally hits. We should start talking about PvP, when there is a possibility to actually show PvP skills. So thats why im trolling around here, so you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Strawman. It has barely any end game and what's there isn't fun. People don't expect the world on release -- but if even the basics aren't there, it's a problem. Even WoW had PLENTY of fun pvp at release (because the combat was engaging, pop was higher, engine could handle it, hubs were located properly) without reward/BGs. Fictional history is fun! WoW's engine couldn't handle TM/SS battles at launch - even high end rigs turned into a slideshow at 30 people to a side. I know, i was there. There were NOT a lot of people participating in PvP (on a PvP server, no less) before there were Battlegrounds and rewards. Performance lagged until well after Battlegrounds were released unless you had a very high end machine. "Typical" AV matches with all of the NPCs would crash the client. Making stuff up is the cool thing to do though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMofGod Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This isn't "inside information" is it? If you are looking for an MMO that feels polished and has more of a "done" feel you start subbing around 12-16 months after release. The logic is similar to why you don't buy a new OS the week after it goes live. However, if you are willing to put up with the bugs and lack of some features then you sub right away so that you are "better" than the people who subbed after you. Did you people who are leaving really expect the game to have no major bugs and contain all the content you wanted it to? Are you that naive? Are you that oblivious to how the modern MMO works? For you people that have friends who are unsubbing because they don't like the game; I feel bad for you, but you should have expected this. No new MMO retains 100% of its subscriber base from day 1. People always leave the first few months after they've determined the game isn't for them. For you people leaving, I suggest you sub to an MMO that has been live for at least 2 years and don't start playing MMO's as soon as they go live in the future. For those of you who think GW2 will have everything you want in an MMO, you're in for huge disappointment. This^ post is stupid and ignorant. You are obviously a noob and don't know *** PVP is. In fact, you must work for EA. They dont know *** PVP is either. I mean really, they have 1/1000th the PVP content warhammer had...and they spent 344 million on this game. THREE HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR MILLION to make this POS game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I think many are (I'll admit I am) still in the denial phase that an MMO can die this fast which has a StarWars label. 5 years = 20 months per WZ for the team PvP ... you seriously think Huttball vindicates 20months worth of work? True story, work on the warzones began on the very first day of development, and not.. three or even four years into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSkyywalker Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If you don't like it and have nothing better to do then cry and complain, then please leave everyone will be much happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksism Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 And i'd rather play SWTOR. HAHAHAHAHA. /jokes. But seriously, at least guild wars will have WORLD PVP at release, as well as COMPETITIVE PVP. So it's already miles ahead of SWTOR at this point. Unless your idea of world pvp is clicking on crates and kill trading. FALSE. I think guild wars 2 will be sweet but there is NO world pvp in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If your new to MMOs, or you need a reminder of how things work stage 1: (pre release) bash former new mmo and claim the next one will be it stage 2: (release) test the game and get hit with reality stage 3: Proclaim unrealistic death of said mmorg stage 4: blame the fanboys therefore labeling yourself as a non fan stage 5: pay monthly subscription to continue to complain about said mmorg stage 6: claim guild wars is the NEXT big thing stage 5: revert back to stage 1 and continue the never ending cycle of hypocrisy REPEAT If your gonna QQ, atleast do it right But this kind of isn't an MMO ... it's basically a third person RPG with occassional co-op and some slap-dash (awesome saying I'm going to be using more often) attempt at competitive multiplayer. If they took Ilum out altogether, which is meant to be the jewel in the crown of BW's OWPvP experience, then it no-one would be that bothered. I don't dispute your points, but this just feels like an RPG with quick slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumbology Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 LOL@Uppl. Everybody gotta be a "pro pvp'er" nowadays. Everybody thinks they're some kind of super-skilled pvp-god. You want open world pvp? Go pick a fight with a random person on the street. And don't pick a "lowbie" either, pick someone you think will give you a real challenge. Report back with your results and a video, or at least pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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