Are all the "PvP sucks I'm quitting" people new to MMO's?

[Amiracle]

Uh.. no. Just no.

 

Was in the game from the second stage of beta onwards. You can keep reinventing history in your head, but it makes you no less a liar.

 

Entire quest chains that didn't work, weren't completeable, or were otherwise bugged (not giving rewards)

 

Bugs for class abilities that persist eight years later

 

Zones that would crash or depopulate; continents, too.

 

Server instability

 

Severe performance issues with the draw distance turned up more than 1/3 of the way with even a 4000$ computer

 

Unplayable lag in large world situations, both server-side/ability activation, and client side, with framerates below 1fps with more than 40-50 people on the screen at a time.

 

All were issues until almost a year into WoW's release cycle.

 

Couple that with no appreciable end-game (Molten Core was not completeable as designed, it took players exploiting unintended stacking of Resists (and lets not forget NEGATIVE RESISTS!) to even make it feasible, and no PvP to speak of.

 

Eastern PvP(Beta) > Bleeding Hollow, played solidly until Firelands.

 

There were monumental, game-breaking bugs in every expansion release too.

 

Trying to say otherwise is just being delusional.

 

 

Add they had daily server crashes for the first 9 months before they finally resolved the issue.

[Jebi]

People wont put up with mind numbingly boring grinds anymore.

 

Which funnily enough is SWTOR's PVP in a nutshell, complete with RNG.

 

Minigame & crate clicking grinds so you can RNG on some PVP gear.

PVP gear that you can then use... to make you statistically better in the same minigames you just grinded in?

lol.

 

Yay?

Edited February 10, 2012 by Jebi

[Skizzik]

Knockbacks are kewl.

[Noctournys]

Which funnily enough is SWTOR's PVP in a nutshell, complete with RNG.

 

Minigame & crate clicking grinds so you can RNG on some PVP gear.

PVP gear that you can then use...in the same minigames you just grinded in?

lol.

 

Yay?

 

Yeah.. three guaranteed pieces of gear a week just for doing 3 games a day.

 

Some grind. Fully geared in three weeks of absurdly casual play.

[Jebi]

Yeah.. three guaranteed pieces of gear a week just for doing 3 games a day.

 

Some grind. Fully geared in three weeks of absurdly casual play.

 

3 Average pieces (and that's assuming the daily quests actually tick off for you, which seems to be about 1 in 4 lately)

 

And then what do you do when you get your carrot?

 

PVP? PVP where?

 

Oh right, in the same spots you just grinded.

 

lol.

 

PVP content, have you heard of it?

 

Fanboys are soooo cute.

 

Face it, PVP it this game is just a tacked on afterthought, and the PVP gear carrot is simply there to keep the sheep playing, and to try and cover up the fact that there is next to no meaningful PVP content currently available.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Jebi

[gumbology]

I think most of us know, the real problem isn't really the game itself, or any of its flaws, though fundamental some may be.

 

The real problem is People In General... and their tendencies toward both developing and maintaining unrealistic, excessive, often even absurd and outrageous expectations, knowing full-well those expectations will most likely not be met.

 

And when those expectations aren't met?

 

People cry about it.

 

Go figure.

 

The very same people whom regurgitate such trite terms as "pwnd, L2P, QQ, your bad," etc, are the same ones quitting the game when it doesn't live up to their absurd expectations.

 

Everyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence knew for a long time, this game would not be "the pvp dream."

 

So many of you are so spoiled to always getting what you want, that you've clearly missed the point, and don't even notice all the nice little things this game has going for it.

 

I like this game, and i'll keep playing it until i'm either tired of it, or ready for something different. It may be soon, since i'm one of those people who has had a TSW forum account since those forums opened, almost 5 years ago. I can imagine the discontent whinings of spoiled-brat-supergamers, will drive me away from this community, long before any of the actual game's flaws.

[ARMofGod]

I think most of us know, the real problem isn't really the game itself, or any of its flaws, though fundamental some may be.

 

The real problem is People In General... and their tendencies toward both developing and maintaining unrealistic, excessive, often even absurd and outrageous expectations, knowing full-well those expectations will most likely not be met.

 

And when those expectations aren't met?

 

People cry about it.

 

Go figure.

 

The very same people whom regurgitate such trite terms as "pwnd, L2P, QQ, your bad," etc, are the same ones quitting the game when it doesn't live up to their absurd expectations.

 

Everyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence knew for a long time, this game would not be "the pvp dream."

 

So many of you are so spoiled to always getting what you want, that you've clearly missed the point, and don't even notice all the nice little things this game has going for it.

 

I like this game, and i'll keep playing it until i'm either tired of it, or ready for something different. It may be soon, since i'm one of those people who has had a TSW forum account since those forums opened, almost 5 years ago. I can imagine the discontent whinings of spoiled-brat-supergamers, will drive me away from this community, long before any of the actual game's flaws.

 

Actually no, all of that is stupid. This game sucks and that is the problem. End of story.

[Monkeycoffer]

Actually no, all of that is stupid. This game sucks and that is the problem. End of story.

 

truth

[Evuke]

Yeah.. three guaranteed pieces of gear a week just for doing 3 games a day.

 

Some grind. Fully geared in three weeks of absurdly casual play.

 

3 games a day ROFL!

 

as a rep player it takes about 20 wz matches to get 3 wins, and half the time those wins don't count anyway.

[gumbology]

Actually no, all of that is stupid. This game sucks and that is the problem. End of story.

 

I rest my case. LOL!

[TheRFC]

Also, the "taking months to level" would find this game deserted faster than anything else. People wont put up with mind numbingly boring grinds anymore.

 

People won't put up with grinds, period.

 

Gaming doesn't have the same stigmas attached that it used to = more potential clientel. How do you hook them? Don't make a game where anyone can excel outside a comfortable deviation, and one where no-one can do that badly.

 

Most people will quit something if they can't do it. The watchword for the instant-gratification ADHD generation is 'convenience'. The money is with the casual crowd so you have to keep them happy because of the revenue required to produce games now. COD's as big as it is by being one of the easiest FPS games to ever hit shelves.

 

 

Personally, I'd like something with an edge again the industry will move to where the money's at. Pander to the highest bidding demographic, in other words.

 

For the purpose of the PvP in this game though, it seems more the lack than anything. There seems little point applying the example of WoW's release 7 years on. You obviously want room for your game to grow so trying to match something like WoW for volume of content would be stupid. But a seriously broken OWPvP system and 3 jinxed WZs? I'd even take 'bad' for the OWPvP but just broken and none-existent?

 

That doesn't leave much to build on bar a scrapping and fresh attempt which just isn't going to happen.

[Dasgruberg]

I'm quitting (but playing til my sub runs out on 18th before you ask why I'm here).

 

I've pvp'd in mmo's for over 10 years and I aren't quitting because tor has new release bugs, I'm quitting because the design and implementation of everything supporting pvp is terrible, badly thought out, poorly executed and tacked on. This is because BW are arrogant and know what gamers want more than gamers do.

 

I call people like you arrogant for posting like your opinion is a fact.

I love the pvp in this game, sure it has its faults but the game is not even 3 months old yet.

 

Granted ive only played EVE online, conan, AO,WO and Wow for 7 years and not 10 years of pvp,. 80% of my 250 member guild and i seem to be entering wz a lot with people who seem to care about it.

 

I especially find huttball refreshingly original, and expect more in these lines from bioware

[Griftter]

For those of you who think GW2 will have everything you want in an MMO, you're in for huge disappointment.

 

How many hours have you logged in GW2???

 

That's what I thought...lost pretty much all credibility with this last statement fanboi.

 

And furthermore why do you care if people are quitting? Oh that's right you're a fanboi.

[fest]

3 Average pieces.

 

And then what do you do?

 

PVP? PVP where?

 

Oh right, in the same spots you just grinded in.

 

lol.

 

PVP content, have you heard of it?

 

Fanboys are soooo cute.

 

Face it, PVP it this game is just a tacked on afterthought, and the PVP gear carrot is simply there to keep the sheep playing, and to try and cover up the fact that there is next to no meaningful PVP content currently available.

 

You do realize that PvP is dynamic, right? Every warzone is different whereas every PvE instance is the same. So PvP itself is the PvP content, just like EVERY other game.

 

If that isn't PvP content to you, what is? Some crappy little sets of keeps in a random zone that you try to fight against the other faction for control until you realize that it is really just a glorified warzone?

 

How many hours have you logged in GW2???

 

How many have you and where's your proof of it? People who praise GW2 without playing it are JUST as bad as the people who **** on it.

Edited February 10, 2012 by fest

[TheRFC]

I think most of us know, the real problem isn't really the game itself, or any of its flaws, though fundamental some may be.

 

The real problem is People In General... and their tendencies toward both developing and maintaining unrealistic, excessive, often even absurd and outrageous expectations, knowing full-well those expectations will most likely not be met.

 

And when those expectations aren't met?

 

People cry about it.

 

Go figure.

 

The very same people whom regurgitate such trite terms as "pwnd, L2P, QQ, your bad," etc, are the same ones quitting the game when it doesn't live up to their absurd expectations.

 

Everyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence knew for a long time, this game would not be "the pvp dream."

 

So many of you are so spoiled to always getting what you want, that you've clearly missed the point, and don't even notice all the nice little things this game has going for it.

 

I like this game, and i'll keep playing it until i'm either tired of it, or ready for something different. It may be soon, since i'm one of those people who has had a TSW forum account since those forums opened, almost 5 years ago. I can imagine the discontent whinings of spoiled-brat-supergamers, will drive me away from this community, long before any of the actual game's flaws.

 

 

I'm not looking for a PvP 'dream', just a decent-variety of PvP that can be built on. Ilum just doesn't count, and 3 WZs is spreading themselves very thin.

 

That isn't just end-game PvP, it's the WHOLE game PvP. pre-L50 you get used to AFKers, whatcha gonna do? Post-L50 it's just a gear-grind if you choose to take part in it.

 

People say 'you should use skill not gear' ... it's an MMO, what 'skill' is there to be found? Button Mash. But something that would encourage some tactical element, or team work beyond 'LEFT' - 'GO MID!' on the same 3 worn out maps would bring so much more to this game. Currently it's basically a flat, 3rd person RPG with occassional co-op and a lack-lustre attempt at anything even resembling competitive play.

 

It's never going to be hardcore because the casual masses would pull their subs, but it could be more than the Valor grind - medal whoring that it currently is.

[Greyfeld]

No they don't. Let's take WoW for example, since everyone else does. The competitive PvP that happens in that game is in high rated arena. And everyone in high rated arena has the exact same gear level.

 

Re-read what you just wrote.

 

"The competitive pvp that happens in that game is in high rated arena. And everyone in high rated arena has the exact same gear level."

 

The fact that pvp isn't balanced until everybody is in the same level of gear only proves my point; gear treadmills break pvp by making the majority of the game unbalanced, and making the cost of entry extremely high.

[fest]

Re-read what you just wrote.

 

"The competitive pvp that happens in that game is in high rated arena. And everyone in high rated arena has the exact same gear level."

 

The fact that pvp isn't balanced until everybody is in the same level of gear only proves my point; gear treadmills break pvp by making the majority of the game unbalanced, and making the cost of entry extremely high.

 

How is the cost high at all? Gearing up in this game is more than a joke, even for someone who only has enough time to play 2 hours a day. If you think otherwise, you're doing something wrong.

[Jebi]

You do realize that PvP is dynamic, right? Every warzone is different whereas every PvE instance is the same. So PvP itself is the PvP content, just like EVERY other game.

 

Oh oh, sounds like someone hasn't played a decent PVP game ever. And no, WOW doesn't count.

 

Every warzone is different? Please explain.

 

Warzones are Dynamic? So 3 people went left, instead of going right? Dynamic? ROFL.

 

And yeah, massively multiplayer PVP in a REAL dynamic world, where the best outcome isn't just some 'VICTORY' text, is >>>>>>>>>>>>> shoebox sized minigame grinds that reset every match and have no impact on the actual world.

 

But seriously, people are defending SWTOR's current PVP?

 

I mean really... ILUM, 3 minigames, and RNG.

 

REALLY?

 

lmao.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Jebi

[TheRFC]

You do realize that PvP is dynamic, right? Every warzone is different whereas every PvE instance is the same. So PvP itself is the PvP content, just like EVERY other game.

 

---

 

How many have you and where's your proof of it? People who praise GW2 without playing it are JUST as bad as the people who **** on it.

 

 

How are WZs dynamic? Every Huttball either my team will dominate, be dominated or it'll be a close 2-1 Match. Every Huttball I'll hit around 10-11 medals and get around 350K damage by mashing the buttons.

 

Alderan - take the side turrets or you lose, end of. 10-11 medals, around 300K because I run between turrets a lot.

 

VS, the game always ends both attacking and defending on the first doors because the spawn timer is too short and everyone has all their CCs and AoEs at L50. Usually 400-450K damage because you just stand in one spot and mash buttons, 10-11 medals.

 

Rinse/ repeat.

 

The GW2 comment, the guy you're replying to simply asked how a guy knew it would suck (someone who'd catagorically said people would be disappointed). It's a fair point. No one knows, IMO it looks a lot of fun. So did SWTOR before launch so go figure! May be a huge flop, may be a great success - there's no harm speculating and hoping that something can revive a flailing MMO genre.

[Greyfeld]

How is the cost high at all? Gearing up in this game is more than a joke, even for someone who only has enough time to play 2 hours a day. If you think otherwise, you're doing something wrong.

 

Any time I have to spend getting my face stomped into the dirt because I don't have good enough gear to be competitive is a high cost. I play video games to have fun, and feeling useless game in and game out is not fun.

 

Look at it this way: if pvp is created in such a way that it's only balanced when everybody is in the same level of gear, then why do we need gear at all?

[sbmorgan]

I play naked

[fest]

Oh oh, sounds like someone hasn't played a decent PVP game ever. And no, WOW doesn't count.

 

Every warzone is different? Please explain.

 

Warzones are Dynamic? So 3 people went left, instead of going right? Dynamic? ROFL.

 

And yeah, massively multiplayer PVP in a REAL dynamic world, where the best outcome isn't just some 'VICTORY' text, is >>>>>>>>>>>>> shoebox sized minigame grinds that reset every match and have no impact on the actual world.

 

But seriously, people are defending SWTOR's current PVP?

 

I mean really... ILUM, 3 minigames, and RNG.

 

REALLY?

 

lmao.

 

So what you're saying is that every single warzone is EXACTLY THE SAME IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD? No differences at all? Not even in the specific players? You must have a small server.

[Knifewrench]

Any time I have to spend getting my face stomped into the dirt because I don't have good enough gear to be competitive is a high cost. I play video games to have fun, and feeling useless game in and game out is not fun.

 

Look at it this way: if pvp is created in such a way that it's only balanced when everybody is in the same level of gear, then why do we need gear at all?

 

Then play TF2. BioWare isn't changing anytime soon.

[TheRFC]

Warzones are Dynamic? So 3 people went left, instead of going right? Dynamic? ROFL.

 

But wait, Jebi! Alderan has dynamism!

 

Up until you hit the spawn point, see 3 people go for Mid and realise you've already lost

 

There's a surprising amount of L50s who you have to explain to what the extra speeders are for ... I just tell them the right one takes you to a datacron. Stupid a**holes.

[Greyfeld]

So what you're saying is that every single warzone is EXACTLY THE SAME IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD? No differences at all? Not even in the specific players? You must have a small server.

 

Just because you run with a different group of people doesn't make it dynamic. I can run flashpoints with different people, but that doesn't change the fact that the objectives are still the same, and I still succeed or fail in the end, with no impact on the outside world itself.