Typheran Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Game is essentially done already from a PVP standpoint. If you look at WAR, the game is actually fantastic at the moment. The problem is, nobody plays WAR anymore since it took them so long to fix the PVP scene there. TOR would be fine if it didn't have three new AAA MMO releases, all PVP focused, releasing this year (MOP, GW2 and Tera). They simply don't have the time they need to make the necessary changes to turn things around. This is especially surprising since you would think that EA/Mythic/Bioware would learn form the mistakes they made with WAR, and from the obvious mistakes other games have made that TOR is now repeating. The game will still be successful and profitable, the Star Wars IP will see to that, but just ask yourself this if you disagree with me. If this was not a Star Wars game, but say a Dragon Age MMO, would you still be playing? ^ 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalTorrak Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 WSG was horrible once people learned how to exploit and get to unreachable places with the flag. I had quit before they fixed this problem. AV was a ton of fun in it's original implementation. Closest WoW got to open world PvP. AB was probably the best WoW map from vanilla. The problem with Vanilla WoW was the PvP ranking system was stupid beyond belief. WoW's balance was never as good as SWToR is even now during vanilla (if ever). My shaman went from being super OP to being balanced to being terrible due to nerfs while rogues and mages stayed OP and warriors did a flip flop from OP to UP every patch. I won't even mention what paladins had to go through..... AB wasn't even in Vanilla, it was put in later. Love how people talk about being there for vanilla when it is so obvious they were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ch_Zero Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I love pvp it rocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalTorrak Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Sorry, you're correct. The correct numbers are: 3 BGs vanilla (WSG, AB, AV) , 0 arenas 4 BGs TBC (+EOTS), 3 arenas (Nagrand, Lordaeron, Circle of Blood) 6 BGs WotLK (+SotA, Isle), 5 arenas (+Dalaran, RoV sorta) 8 BGs Cata (+Gilneas, Twin Peaks), 5 arenas No, Vanilla there was WSG and AV, AB was introduced later, actually Vanilla didn't even have ANY BG's at all. You guys who talk Vanilla are truly not even there to play it. Anyways the PvP was really good in WoW full stop before whiners got the better of blizzard and they started changing things, Closed beta was probably one of the best group pvp experiences there was, every class was unique until people started again, crying that class has this, I WANT IT, you can tell Bioware thought of this that's why EVERYONE has so many CC's in this game, people have a whinge about it but your class has the same thing pretty much. Only thing that pisses me off about this game is the amount of bugs, feels like it hasn't even been through beta (or should still be there) but EA are greedy so that's why it got released the way it did we all know that, also the customer service is beyond terrible (I heard they outsourced it so would explain why) another thing for EA to get their money back quicker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunkShizzle Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) its to early to judge guild wars 2 and tera are probably where the serious pvpers would go.and those 2 mmorpgs arent out yet someone mentioned mop,but anyone whos pvp'd in games with a good pvp system knows how much of a joke world of warcrafts pvp is.eather way from what ive did so far pvp wise,the pvp doesnt seem to bad in this game.but im only lvl 26 so maybe theres a big difference between 1-49 pvp and lvl 50 pvp Edited March 15, 2012 by CrunkShizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrackenOne Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I dunno. I've 8 toons all under 50, and all I really do is PvP. It's not the best PvP, but my old guildies are here and this is the only SW MMO out there.... ...but the PvP is really stun wars and it's awful. The beta testers need taken out back and stunned to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 not yet ....but soon Assuming of course you know about all the things coming even after 1.2. I could also assume that you don't. So best of luck with your "Doom's Day" opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 its to early to judge guild wars 2 and tera are probably where the serious pvpers would go.and those 2 mmorpgs arent out yet someone mentioned mop,but anyone whos pvp'd in games with a good pvp system knows how much of a joke world of warcrafts pvp is.eather way from what ive did so far pvp wise,the pvp doesnt seem to bad in this game.but im only lvl 26 so maybe theres a big difference between 1-49 pvp and lvl 50 pvp Why would any one mention mop. Pvp will be focus on pokemon pet fights. I wouldn't call that pvp. As for the pvp in that game I doubt any change will be done in mop that will suddenly make pvp in that game good. Let's face it pve is the main attraction in wow and not pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 yes, most of us have already /unsubbed from Tor and are waiting for gw2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Alma- Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) IMHO, if bioware are to fix PVP in swtor, they need to start fixing the classes and combat mechanics first, then branch out into open world pvp maps and objectives, warzones etc. Basically, the game engine needs a total revamp to handle large scale pvp or its just not gonna happen, ever. The pvp game has some good points I will credit it with that, but lots of bad points. And the hacks are just getting worse and worse every warzone, as are AFK idiots (on some servers). For alternatives, Tera isnt the answer. There is a reason why its already failed so hard in the east, and the game isnt going to change that much to appease the western market. It would need a complete re-write for that happen. From what Ive seen of the Tera, if it was a facebook game, I would be interested in spending 10 minutes on it during my lunch hour at work, but beyond that, its just another fantasy mmo like aion. Guild Wars 2 looks promising. I will definately check it out, but Im not holding my breathe. Edited March 15, 2012 by -Alma- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardNoggin Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Im in a PvP guild and we were going strong until the plans for 1.2 was announced and Ilum was killed off. After that noone is really on in the guild anymore and I dont even see more than 5 on at a time. My personal opinion is that most of the pvp'ers are going elsewhere until 1.2 unless it is really as bad as everyone says with them giving everyone the best gear. Then I dont really see them coming back. I have forsaken wow ever since the panda chinese xpac so im staying to see if they make pvp something. If not i guess guild wars 2 here I come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaminglisp Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I've played since start and hardcore pvp'd daily. Nothing for me now on either my Republic or Imperial characters. Game got very boring very quickly for myself and others I regularly group with and it's such a shame. Was fun while it lasted but no re-sub for me, I just can't see any way it could possibly improve. I can only feel a lot of opportunities were wasted and development/funding going into entirely the wrong areas (think voice-overs.. ***). Content was mediocre at best on the PVE side and nigh on insulting on the PvP side. Good luck for the future SWTOR.. I have a feeling you'll need it *Thanks to all those that pvp'd alongside me both on Ludo Kresh and Bloodworthy and I hope to see you on other games in the future Zoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyrprime Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 just need 1 word to say it all "Yes", but that is too short for this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obie_Wan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Yes. Waiting on GW2. Will remain subbed in the mean time to see if BioWare does anything to change my mind. Really doubt it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obie_Wan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) I dunno. I've 8 toons all under 50, and all I really do is PvP. It's not the best PvP, but my old guildies are here and this is the only SW MMO out there.... ...but the PvP is really stun wars and it's awful. The beta testers need taken out back and stunned to death. If you really think this is us beta testers' fault then you're mistaken. We've given the same feedback as you have and were bluntly told that our feedback didn't matter, they only needed us to play the game. They claimed to have an internal team of testers where they got more -reliable- data from. These internal team of testers are what brought you such great things as Stun Wars, unbalanced graphic animation lag, and oh yes, Ilum. So don't be laying the blame on us beta testers. Devs were acting like hot shot AAA industry leaders in MMO and barely communicating with us. Everything we said, warned, and had concerns about were met with a wall of silence. Oh, and yeah whenever we expressed concerns over the lack of changes and improvements we were shushed up about how there was always an internal build that's "months ahead" of what we're playing. And we got hammered by the fanboys whenever we noted that there were barely any changes to our concerns with that statement over and over. Edited March 15, 2012 by Obie_Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dego_Locc Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) So don't be laying the blame on us beta testers. Devs were acting like hot shot AAA industry leaders in MMO and barely communicating with us. Everything we said, warned, and had concerns about were met with a wall of silence. This. Remember when they gave us that one test server to test end game content , where you could roll a 42 out the gate? Problem was they didn't give us ANY credits to train ANY of our skills. We were level 42, with NO skills, and over 1 million credits away from purchasing them. Instead mailing everyone credits, they just shut the server down a week later, and that was endgame testing. I mean who up in the high ranks doesn't think of these issues? Durp durp. That and an Ilum that was open and completely empty, no walkers, or nothing, we had no clue the disaster they had planned there, or we would have told them it sucked. And like the guy I qouted said, we were met with a brick wall, and no communication from devs outside of a general sticky on the test forums here and there. And guess what ,90% of the /bug tickets I turned in three beta builds before launch are still in the damn game!? Completely unacceptable IMO. Edited March 15, 2012 by Dego_Locc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyrprime Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) The 'pvpers' who think this game is fine are just fanbois. There are crybabies on this forum, but there's a lot of valid points that the fanbois treat like whining. The fact of the matter is, we're upset because we didn't get the game we were told we would get- not a game we wanted for ourselves. People need to realize that this outrage has a legitimate source amongst the crying. BW basically promised the revolution of MMOs in both PvE and PvP, and they delivered garbage by any standard in almost every category. There's nothign wrong with the people that are enjoying this game. Just understand that many of us are upset because BW really failed to deliver. I mean they really, really fell short. If you knew me, you'd understand the gravity of my attitude here. I am usually defending the developers against unreasonable people. I've been waiting for this game since it was speculation and alpha tested. I wanted this game to be at least decent. It's just not there. It's a lot of flash and a little substance. Dude you sound like me. I defended this game till I hit 50 and got to Ilum. I even posted a very long suggestion of how I thought this game could make a few changes and become king.. but alas I just can't in good faith continue to praise this game for all it has done right when it has done so much more wrong. I wanted this game to be the best. I have been a Bioware fan for many years. But this just killed most of that. I admit.. I haven't even bought ME3 yet just because of how dissappointed I am with SWTOR. I guess I'll eventually get ME3 but I'll wait till it goes on discount rack as I've had enough of storylines where if you deviate from one moral set of choices you penalize yourself at the end of the game. (Still pissed about being forced to chose all paragon or all renegade options to get the achievement "no one left behind" in ME2). Bleh. GW2 I'll probably not play either.. not because of anything innately wrong they are doing.. rather how much I hate that company and their associates for killing Tabula Rasa. For that I will never forgive them. Edited March 15, 2012 by Aethyrprime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Once people leave they are pretty much gone. What in 1.2 really excites a hard core pvp player? Another wz in a box? Ilum is gone. More nerfs and lots of pretties, like legacy nonsense for pve. Nothing about balancing the faction differences, no clue about real meaningful open world pvp let alone RVR. No way to stop the hackers. They don't have a mechanism to send mail to the entire guild. This game was released terribly unfinished. The game is lag city and thus overly instanced. Does the game feel like a world or universe to anyone? Is there any reason to go anywhere other than to stand around at the pvp kiosk in the fleet? Nope. Boring. Turn out the lights.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 No, Vanilla there was WSG and AV, AB was introduced later, actually Vanilla didn't even have ANY BG's at all. You guys who talk Vanilla are truly not even there to play it. Anyways the PvP was really good in WoW full stop before whiners got the better of blizzard and they started changing things, Closed beta was probably one of the best group pvp experiences there was, every class was unique until people started again, crying that class has this, I WANT IT, you can tell Bioware thought of this that's why EVERYONE has so many CC's in this game, people have a whinge about it but your class has the same thing pretty much. Only thing that pisses me off about this game is the amount of bugs, feels like it hasn't even been through beta (or should still be there) but EA are greedy so that's why it got released the way it did we all know that, also the customer service is beyond terrible (I heard they outsourced it so would explain why) another thing for EA to get their money back quicker.... Arathi is Vanilla. It was added 10 months after release. You seem to be implying that WSG and AV were in at release. They weren't. They were added 7 months after release. You know how I know you didn't play Vanilla WoW? They were only added in because of the overwhelming popularity of world PvP on PvP servers. WoW is really the first mainstream MMO to recognize that PvP is very important to the overwhelming majority of the player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Arathi is Vanilla. It was added 10 months after release. You seem to be implying that WSG and AV were in at release. They weren't. They were added 7 months after release. You know how I know you didn't play Vanilla WoW? They were only added in because of the overwhelming popularity of world PvP on PvP servers. WoW is really the first mainstream MMO to recognize that PvP is very important to the overwhelming majority of the player base. Know how I know you have zero clue on what you're talking about DAOC.... AC.... UO... Everquest (Race War and PvP servers) I mean bloody hell.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everax Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) My first MMO was SWG, and played that game when if first launch thus that is where I had encountered my first open pvp experience, which was fun back in the day. But what Star Wars: The Old Republic has to offer for pvp in this in age is pales to any other game out that has come out before it. Last night I hit Valor 50...about 90% of that valor came from Huttball. That is wrong on so many levels. Yes I tried pvping in Illum, running around in one big circle to open crates is not what I consider pvp..... . Sure some hardcore pvpers have left the building but there's 2 mmo's out are in the shadows and are about to turn on their lights. When they do...I"ll be like a moth to a light....... The question is will Star Wars had enough footing to survive these 2 mmo's? Edited March 15, 2012 by Everax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Know how I know you have zero clue on what you're talking about DAOC.... AC.... UO... Everquest (Race War and PvP servers) I mean bloody hell.. Mainstream and "overwhelming majority" must be terms that are lost on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyrprime Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Mainstream and "overwhelming majority" must be terms that are lost on you. "First" must be lost on you. He was correct. If you think WoW was the first mainstream anything.. perhaps you are confusing that word with "Commercially produced crap" that is more befitting of such a title. Because the only thing WoW was first at was pumping millions of dollars in to advertising.. Not exactly something I'd go boasting about with glee.. It paid off I suppose seeing as the inheritors of Blizzard's IPs are laughing themselves to the bank.. Sadly, those who actually worked for Blizzard North all quit the company soon after it was acquired by Activision. A lot of people forget this. Edited March 15, 2012 by Aethyrprime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursuul Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I dunno. I've 8 toons all under 50, and all I really do is PvP. It's not the best PvP, but my old guildies are here and this is the only SW MMO out there.... ...but the PvP is really stun wars and it's awful. The beta testers need taken out back and stunned to death. you realize there is more communication between devs and community on the weekly update for patch notes than there was throughout the entirety of BETA. how well did you feel the devs communicated with the fans before beta? you know through all those super sweet and thought out Fan Fridays. Ask anyone who was in Beta, there was NO communication. On a side note it was interresting to really see the MMO money making machine at work. (was my first long beta) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaselle Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) What I don't understand about people who grief over a game like this is that Bioware the whole time said that it was going to focus on Story. Investing time and money on voice acting, planets, and that summarizes to PVE. Yes, I understand that they have a PVP team in place now that is working on enhancements to PVP to make it more progressive and rewarding, but that takes time. In the guild summit, they said they were surprised on how many people wanted to PVP. So obviously it took them off guard. So cry away. All I heard on this post was pretty much, "Bohoo Only 1 warzone and PVE players get so much more" "Why do games keep regressing" Its not a matter of regression, its a matter of stability" It would be like building a sky rise from the roof down and hold it up while you build the floors underneath it." People who put unrealistic ideals on what the modern MMO is is only lying and disappointing themselves. Its that simple Edited March 15, 2012 by dlaselle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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