Meldwyn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 When does this game stop being new? Has it gotten its first scratch yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grabsss Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 . SWTOR is the First MMO . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJMTL Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 When does this game stop being new? Has it gotten its first scratch yet? In seven years... but oh wait, then the OTHER GAME will have been out for 14! Damn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This argument is such garbage. Do new car makers compare themselves to the Model T? When a new movie comes out do you compare it to silent films? Why do people keep comparing software to completely different industries? How about comparing it to other MMOs? Let's see Rift shipped without a LFD tool and when they added it the thing didn't work. No addon support. Buggy. No guild bank. And on and on. Would it be nice if a MMO released with every last feature that every last player wants? Sure, but I would rather be playing the game now instead of years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Really WoW is a 7 year old game , where at the time of its launch much of the features we ask today , did NOT EXIST. To expect TODAY , that a game come with them is totally normal , they have ALREADY been invented , it takes no good ideas , just implementation , something BW seem rly bad at. So dont compare this game with WoW , cause it has nothing to do with it (today current WoW still beats the crap of this one atm). BW is a bad company , and this game is lacking , NO EXCUSES, i wonder how long till they actually make something right. Edited February 14, 2012 by rzrknight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aastarius Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why do people keep comparing software to completely different industries? How about comparing it to other MMOs? Let's see Rift shipped without a LFD tool and when they added it the thing didn't work. No addon support. Buggy. No guild bank. And on and on. Would it be nice if a MMO released with every last feature that every last player wants? Sure, but I would rather be playing the game now instead of years from now. So as it's a Rift comparison you're after, we can expect Bioware to match Rifts schedule of updates then? Something along the lines of: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/general-discussion/293766-welcome-back-guide-whats-changed.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Check out some of the joined dates....2009, heck yours is 2010. Its 2012, so sure this game is new on the market, but how many years in development and legacy was not even available at launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiwen Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) This thread is silly. It is actually pretty simple. If you have two games, one has some functionality and the other does not. Which do you choose? It doesn't matter that the game with the functionality, didn't have it at release or that the game that is missing said functionality are new. As everything else in life, you compare two products as they are at THIS moment. Thats all that matters. Why should I spend my time on a game that may or may not be good in the future when I can play another that is good now? As a developer you are competing against everything that is on the market NOW with their current status. The whole compare to wow at launch argument is stupid. Edited February 14, 2012 by Saiwen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stelakh Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Perhaps you missed the part about being patient? If patience defines a fanboy, then many of us are fanboys in most everthing we do. We'll roll with BioWare's plan while you rage on ahead and get hit by the bus. Who's getting hit by what, here? The complacent attitude of "I'll wait, and continue to pay money, until the game is where it should be" baffles me. If you buy a car, you don't expect to push it off the lot because the dealer is "working on it" and you need to "give it time" until you get the engine. You expect it to actually work as it should the moment you turn the key. ToR is the car without the engine - still. You can be patient and "give it time" if you like. That's fine and it's your choice. But to suggest that someone is getting "hit by a bus" when you're paying money to beta ToR for BioWare is ludicrous. It's more like the BioWare bus is hitting your wallet than those of us who are leaving the game because of its state are getting hit by anything else other than a reasonable expectation of a decent MMO released in 2011 that does not play worse than an MMO released in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Let's see Rift shipped without a LFD tool and when they added it the thing didn't work. No addon support. Buggy. No guild bank. And on and on. ehhr.. it was actually way more polished than tor at launch, still has smaller maintenance windows, separated between EU and US etc... as for LFD, it worked perfectly fine, but it was same server first. actually the endgame and progression was perfectly fine at launch, yet the whining from people who are unable to do instances without a simply button to click was so loud trion caved in. or to sum it up: it's not about features, but the state of the game. Edited February 14, 2012 by Graburr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This game as been out for 2 months. IDK *** they were thinking not implementing all this stuff! That is soooo much damn time! Surusly get to work ea cmon. Why am I paying for this game that isn't perfect 2 months after release?! I mean damn.../sarcasm Yeah, how dare we expect something we pay money for to be well designed and complete. (No the sub is not to pay them to finish the game, it is to pay them to add more to it and maintain the servers- those apparently archaic machines that they have that can't support more than a handful of people at once, either in a single game area or on the forums.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilicus Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 everquest, 1999, combat log. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I hear that the new TVs you can buy are large...heavy...and have tubes. But hey! They get black, white, and shades of gray coloring! AND SOUND!! "I know, it's crazy to expect that as time goes on...technoligical advancements should be made...certain things that were bonuses last year should be standard this year." *gets into his buggy Giddy up horsey!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offem Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This game isn't finished which it should have been before release, im paying monthly and still waiting for the legacy system to work which should have been functional at release. Whether or not its new doesnt matter if it isnt a finished product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) OP, if you have a problem with what particular people say, then I would suggest you direct your opposition to them directly instead of just making a new thread which to all intents and purposes creates a strawman argument to attack. Yes, WoW didn't have the stuff you mentioned. But what WoW had at launch is irrelevant. Times have changed and so has the MMO market. It is very different now to how it used to be. There's a lot more competition, raising standards all the time. And certain features which only appeared over time in the past, are now expected. Do you see Ford making excuses for not including CD players and power steering in cars, even though said features where once considered extras? No. Get used to it. That's the nature of changing and evolving markets. If a manufacturer or developer or a product cannot keep up with the competition, then they really have no one else to blame but themselves for not doing the necessary research and development. And if anyone thinks that BW / EA have all the time in the world, then they are naive. One only needs to look at what's happened in the industry over the last 7 or so years, MMO's flop within a matter of months if they do not prove that they are receiving the necessary development to appease their customers. Edited February 14, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyus Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm just going to state first of all that I really enjoy playing this game day in day out. There are 40+ pages of people who rightly so state that you should compare a new title to its current competition. One factor omitted by these people is that mmo's are more complex than other titles and so some features being missing in the short term (short term being a few months) is respectable. Now by the end of March many of the requested features such as legacy, more raids more warzones, numerous fixes will be introduced. So theoretically all the people that want these things added should be heading back to resubscribe... unfortunately the majority are just complaining for the sake of complaining. The one thing that does gripe is peoples complaints about balance, SWTOR is without a doubt the most balanced on release mmo that I have ever played, there are some issues but in comparison to games with pvp such as War, Aion, WoW, DCUO and Rift this game blows them away in terms of pvp balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I'm just going to state first of all that I really enjoy playing this game day in day out. There are 40+ pages of people who rightly so state that you should compare a new title to its current competition. One factor omitted by these people is that mmo's are more complex than other titles and so some features being missing in the short term (short term being a few months) is respectable. Now by the end of March many of the requested features such as legacy, more raids more warzones, numerous fixes will be introduced. So theoretically all the people that want these things added should be heading back to resubscribe... unfortunately the majority are just complaining for the sake of complaining. The one thing that does gripe is peoples complaints about balance, SWTOR is without a doubt the most balanced on release mmo that I have ever played, there are some issues but in comparison to games with pvp such as War, Aion, WoW, DCUO and Rift this game blows them away in terms of pvp balance. Firstly, whilst I respect that everyone is entitled to their own subjective opinion, it cannot be used as fact. And secondly, there's a few flaws in your argument: Those things that are coming in March are not necessarily the majority of issues with the game. So one cannot just automatically assume that the majority are not necessarily just "complaining for the sake of complaining". Your argument is attempting to discredit such complaints / concerns by making generalisations and assumptions about peoples motivations..Making the assumption that someone will just return in March is also foolish. Players often leave not just because of one or two issues, but a collection of them. Can you really be sure that the March update will address them all? No. Thing is, as has been proven time and time again, Bioware's reluctance to give details until something is practically ready will in all probability not help them in retaining customers. In short: people need more reassurance if they are to be expected to continue subbing for the medium / long term..Anyone who tries to be objective will notice that people are NOT just asking for more warzones / operations and flashpoints. When you read between the lines you realise that people are looking for more depth in as much of the game as possible. Why? Because more depth gives people more reasons to continue subscribing. And just throwing more flashpoints / warzeones / operations ain't going to address that issue. Why? Because they will inevitably burn through those flashpoints / warzones / operations as fast as they are doing so now. Which puts Bioware back in the same position as they are now. If anything TOR is proving once again (like its predecessors) that the formula used in WoW works for WoW and ONLY for WoW. Edited February 14, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyus Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) There's a couple of flaws in your argument. Those things that are coming in March are not necessarily the majority of issues with the game. So no, the majority are not necessarily just "complaining for the sake of complaining". Your argument is attempting to discredit such complaints / concerns by making generalisations and assumptions about peoples motivations..Making the assumption that someone will just return in March is also foolish. Players often leave not just because of one or two issues, but a collection of them. Can you really be sure that the March update will address them all? No. I never said the majority would return but those who's complaints were features that will be added in 1.2 theoretically should return. my point that I addressed to the majority of people complaining is that they are doing largely to just complain about something, I feel that if this game had combat logs, LFG, Dual Specs then those who are complaining with out doing so constructively would just be complaining about something else. Whilst its true the game is in need of some features, elements such as Looking for group and dual specs needed to be investigated into initially to assess their impact on the release build. This is of course no excuse for not including a combat log. My honest opinion is one of patience. I've played through a lot of mmo's and one thing I enjoy is that they are a moving target. In 2 months the game will have advanced and in 4 months it will have gone further still. The question is does the current release forfill my requirements and present good value for money. My answer is yes someone else will be no. For those that say no it would be great if they could do so in a nicer tone and address complaints constructively. TL;DR Whilst I agree my statement was a sweeping generalisation, people will complain regardless. But they should keep in mind that some features being omitted have been done so as a temporary assessment. Edited February 14, 2012 by Kyus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Apologies for my gross editing of my previous post, however I will endeavour to address your points.... I never said the majority would return but those who's complaints were features that will be added in 1.2 theoretically should return. Really? Should return? Based on what? You are assuming the 1.2 update covers all concerns that players have who are remotely interested in that update. It would be foolish to make such an assumption. For instance, a player MAY be looking forward to one aspect in that update, but still has many concerns that haven't been addressed yet. my point that I addressed to the majority of people complaining is that they are doing largely to just complain about something, I feel that if this game had combat logs, LFG, Dual Specs then those who are complaining with out doing so constructively would just be complaining about something else. You are making assumptions and generalisations about the complaints of people you don't really know that well. In essence you are attempting to discredit their opinions because they differ to your own. Labelling all concerns as "complaining for the sake of complaining". The simple fact is that opinions differ as to the level of quality which this product has. Some like it, some don't. Neither side is right or wrong. Is it really so wrong to expect more from a company who has a reputation for quality? Whilst its true the game is in need of some features, elements such as Looking for group and dual specs needed to be investigated into initially to assess their impact on the release build. This is of course no excuse for not including a combat log. My honest opinion is one of patience. I've played through a lot of mmo's and one thing I enjoy is that they are a moving target. In 2 months the game will have advanced and in 4 months it will have gone further still. The question is does the current release forfill my requirements and present good value for money. My answer is yes someone else will be no. For those that say no it would be great if they could do so in a nicer tone and address complaints constructively. TL;DR Whilst I agree my statement was a sweeping generalisation, people will complain regardless. But they should keep in mind that some features being omitted have been done so as a temporary assessment. Whilst one person may have infinite patience, others may not. Especially those who have previously tried to stand by devs of other MMO's, believing that everything will turn out right in the end. Only to be burnt by a lack of good management and excessive arrogance on the part of the devs. History has already proven MANY times now that time is not a luxury that MMO devs can afford to squander. Communication and perception are key to the success of an MMO. Solutions need to be found in a timely and reasonable manner. If players feel that their concerns are not being addressed....they will walk. It's that simple. And one thing that is common in all industries is this: It is often cheaper and easier to keep an existing customer, than to try to entice one back. Edited February 14, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Trust me -- I am well aware that this game is new. If it was an old game, I would have unsubscribed very next day after hitting 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Pretend for a momment that what is happening now is more or less what could be expected as being the status quo for the foreseeable future. Why pay for something you don't enjoy, and that in no way benefits you? that is dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Pretend for a momment that what is happening now is more or less what could be expected as being the status quo for the foreseeable future. Why pay for something you don't enjoy, and that in no way benefits you? that is dumb. Very true. Right now, as is the case with a lot of MMO launches, a sizeable portion of the players are prepared to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt, for a couple of months or so. But, time is running out, unless bioware prove that they have the capability and willingness to address the issues that are important to the majority of players (meaning not only communication but action too), then patience will inevitably wear off. And that's when you begin to see the often typical exodus occur. Edited February 14, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_Boots_x Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If a new big box store wants to challenge Walmart for top retailer, does it have to compete and be better than the thousands of stores today or the Walmart of the 1960s? The "it's still new" argument isn't a valid excuse, it may be for bugs, but not for features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktailstalker Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You still cannot compare TOR launch to WoW launch. Want to know why? Because when you release game with the intention of beating the heavy competition, then you have something that can compete with them. Such as a LFG tool or anything else this sinking ship is lacking. THEN you add something new and innovative and win. If you do not start out on a competitive level from the start, you're years behind. You know why your wrong? Because you were HOPING that this game beats WOW while WOW's popularity is only because of ASIAN subs not US subs. Also, you bought into the hype from BIOWARE that led to you to believe it will bea WOW. It might in the future when all bugs are fixed and the communities wishes come true and Bioware expands to ASIA. Anything is possible so you need patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthtoph Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) ToR was new back in December, we're in 2012 now. Deal with it. Edited February 14, 2012 by darthtoph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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