mauredchai Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If SW:TOR 2012 would have all the features that WoW 2012 does, it would come out in 2014. At which point it would be compared against WoW 2014, which means that SW:TOR would have to come out in 2015, which means that SW:TOR would yet again be have to be postponed ad nauseam looks familiar? It's Zenos paradox aka "Achilles and the turtle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You are being deliberately obtuse. Bottom line - ToR was released without several key and many other minor features, and peoples complaints about a 300 million dollar project missing these things are valid. Now please, go ahead and tell me how something as simple as a combat log was not included in the shipped product is ok. No what people are complaining about is that it doesnt have features that wow has within it, Combat log is in the game, it was in beta and is simply turned off. Bioeware have said they have disabled it and they did this on there own choice. UI customization is coming in no ?. cross realm lfg is coming in no ? the myriad of other things are coming in. so what people are complaining about is what isnt in the game yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No what people are complaining about is that it doesnt have features that wow has within it, Combat log is in the game, it was in beta and is simply turned off. Bioeware have said they have disabled it and they did this on there own choice. Why was it turned off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Meldwyn, your analogy fails time after time. as has been pointed out, if you take out all the health and safety regulations of what has to be there and then see what is left as optional extras you basically have radio, sat nav and tinted windows. Nothing I listed are under "Health and Safety" regulations. You are a bad troll, really. Intermittent wipers. What regulation does that fall under? Leather seating. What regulation does that fall under? Nav system. Regulation? Power Steering. regulation? LOL, none, my friend. You are deliberatly being difficult! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Why was it turned off? Who knows, there was a dev post pre launch about it and they havnt said its staying off just thats turned off for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Who knows, there was a dev post pre launch about it and they havnt said its staying off just thats turned off for now. FYI - It was turned off because it wasn't working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Nothing I listed are under "Health and Safety" regulations. You are a bad troll, really. Intermittent wipers. What regulation does that fall under? Leather seating. What regulation does that fall under? Nav system. Regulation? Power Steering. regulation? LOL, none, my friend. You are deliberatly being difficult! Leather seats are optional extras, sat nav optional extras, power stearing optional extras. Intermitent wipers, Law, must have 2 set speeds by law not including turned off, under uk law, under the mot regulations and under dvla regulations. FYI - It was turned off because it wasn't working properly. FYI there is a combat log and we cant see it, the system works because you hit something and the system knows how much you hit it for, just because we dont get a read out doesnt mean its not there. good try sparky. Edited February 13, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knewt Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So let me give you abit of an insight what was available at WoW's launch. That was 2004. This is 2012. You can't compare SWTOR and WoW launches. The times and industry are completely different. If you want to make an apt comparison, try Rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaltom Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 bacon Made this over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 FYI - It was turned off because it wasn't working properly. That or a log would show how jacked up abilities are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Leather seats are optional extras, sat nav optional extras, power stearing optional extras. Intermitent wipers, Law, must have 2 set speeds by law not including turned off, under uk law, under the mot regulations and under dvla regulations. FYI there is a combat log and we cant see it, the system works because you hit something and the system knows how much you hit it for, just because we dont get a read out doesnt mean its not there. good try sparky. ...what No, just no. The game engine works in that the data is calculated correctly and the damage you deal to the mob is recorded properly (in theory, cause how would we tell) They couldn't get the combat log to properly import that data, which is why it was turned off until they fixed it. My contention is that it should be working already, and I shouldn't have to wait 3-6 months for them to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morthis Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Leather seats are optional extras, sat nav optional extras, power stearing optional extras. Intermitent wipers, Law, must have 2 set speeds by law not including turned off, under uk law, under the mot regulations and under dvla regulations. His point is that if you're gonna price and try to compete at a level where these optional extra's aren't really considered optional anymore and are pretty standard (like high end luxury cars), then you'll be hard pressed to convince people your car without all those optional elements is still worth the same price tag as one that does have it all. FYI there is a combat log and we cant see it, the system works because you hit something and the system knows how much you hit it for, just because we dont get a read out doesnt mean its not there. good try sparky. By your definition I can sell you a 60 inch HD TV, which turns out to be a 60 inch cardboard box. Don't worry, the TV shows are still all on the cable, they're just hidden from you. Edited February 13, 2012 by LexiCazam Rude comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Here's another analogy: A city (ElectronicArts) decides to put in a new toll road (Old Republic) out to this great development called MMOland. Unfortunately, winter (read: Christmas) is coming so they have to finish the road quickly over the summer in order to maximize on toll collections during the holiday traffic season (box sales and subscriptions). So EA City hires a contractor (BioWare) that promises to do this--and do it in an excitingly new way (the tolls talk to drivers and don't require actual people to man them). But because of the time crunch and BioWare Concrete's insistence on doing things their own way, by November they end up with a toll road that makes it only most of the way to MMOland, and it's full of potholes. The holidays arrive and EA City is excited it's going to fill up their budget gaps for the last year with collections from the new toll road, so they open TOR Road anyway. That's when it happens--when drivers discover that the road out to MMOland is bumpy and winding, and it's hard to justify paying a toll for such an unfinished stretch of road. Many of them go back to using other routes that might get them to their destination longer, but smoother. Others just park their cars at the end of the road and wait for the contractors to come finish it. EA City then jumps at their contractor, BioWare Concrete, and tells them they need to get their road up to speed and fast! So what does the contractor do? They spend all of what little trickled back down from what the city managed to get collect from tolls, and try to fill the holes, but the road is still ultimately unfinished. You're not getting to MMOland on the new TOR Road anytime soon. In the end, TOR Road is bumpy, it's missing chunks here and there, and it has an expensive toll considering you never really get to your destination. tldr: TOR is an unfinished road, and BioWare has to spend its time and money filling gaps and holes while leaving the end of the road still unfinished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 His point is that if you're gonna price and try to compete at a level where these optional extra's aren't really considered optional anymore and are pretty standard (like high end luxury cars), then you'll be hard pressed to convince people your car without all those optional elements is still worth the same price tag as one that does have it all. By your definition I can sell you a 60 inch HD TV, which turns out to be a 60 inch cardboard box. Don't worry, the TV shows are still all on the cable, they're just hidden from you. His point still fails because i could go out and buy a car without those optional extras and still be very happy without those optional extras, namly a ferrari. also if i bought a tv from you and you just sent me a cardboard cut out of a tv i would be visiting you and you wouldnt be selling a tv like that to anyone ever again. And like has been said, combat logs were in beta and they disabled them through choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QFT compare TOR now with WoW now. WoW launch dosen't matter at all you can not compare years of development to a new game, besides the DEV's never claimed to be a wow killer or anything else, no new game made by anyone is going to launch with the same level of devlepment as a game that has been out for years, where do people get this these crazy ideas.. this is a /facepalm moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantragk Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 you can not compare years of development to a new game, besides the DEV's never claimed to be a wow killer or anything else, no new game made by anyone is going to launch with the same level of devlepment as a game that has been out for years, where do people get this these crazy ideas.. this is a /facepalm moment Because TOR wasn't in development for 6 years? AND they bought the engine so they didn't even have to develop THAT part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Excuses, This is a 2012 game, it needs to launch with the standard features otherwise why play it? Tera is launching with an LFG tool and a combat log and everything, i'm probably going to switch over to that game because it is going to have everything i want in an MMO right out of the gate. TITAN will be a 2015 game and still won't come with everything people want. You can write my words. It's comon sense, you people think that to something to happen they just need snap fingers or something and it will appear done. Btw FYI tera was released in Korea 1 year ago and the core of the game is extremely poor compared with SWTOR PvE wise. The only good thing they have is the modular UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDreamz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) you can not compare years of development to a new game, besides the DEV's never claimed to be a wow killer or anything else, no new game made by anyone is going to launch with the same level of devlepment as a game that has been out for years, where do people get this these crazy ideas.. this is a /facepalm moment You guys sure like to handicap yourselves. You compare present to present in all terms regarding game quality. This notion that games get a honeymoon period of 'x' amount of time to get their act together is laughable. Minor bugs are one thing, but the infestation that SWTOR has doesn't have a cure. SWTOR is the Duke Nuke'em forever of MMOs. Hyped like crazy, took forever, spent a lot of money but when it's finally released games moved light years ahead of it. Sure it would've been a good game 8 years ago but today? New game or not both titles I mentioned are below average. Edited February 13, 2012 by DigitalDreamz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zannis Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) you can not compare years of development to a new game, besides the DEV's never claimed to be a wow killer or anything else, no new game made by anyone is going to launch with the same level of devlepment as a game that has been out for years, where do people get this these crazy ideas.. this is a /facepalm moment So according to the 'Wow comparison-ists', every advancement in the genre can be ignored since there will always be some game in industry history that launched successfully with a similar feature set. Following this logic, a new dev company could release anything with the argument that 'this is better than what Pong released with'. You can't just ignore years of technological and artistic advancements when charging $60 for a new product. The same holds true for MMOs. You don't just ignore almost a decade of advancements in the genre. Bioware does not have seven years to bring their game up to par with other MMOs. They've got til maybe a year or so after release to add features that are now considered staples in the genre, and the clock is ticking. Edited February 13, 2012 by Zannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbathehut Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) So according to the 'Wow comparison-ists', every advancement in the genre can be ignored since there will always be some game in industry history that launched successfully with a similar feature set. Following this logic, a new dev company could release anything with the argument that 'this is better than what Pong released with'. You can't just ignore years of technological and artistic advancements when charging $60 for a new product. The same holds true for MMOs. You don't just ignore almost a decade of advancements in the genre. Bioware does not have seven years to bring their game up to par with other MMOs. They've got til maybe a year or so after release to add features that are now considered staples in the genre, and the clock is ticking. Even so, with BW starting fresh in this genre, they managed to copy every detail - down to their very flaws - from the rest of the MMO genre. Making this "just another MMO". There's a good reason why people are saying "If you've played one, you've played them all." Class storylines were one step in the correct direction. Ultimately, it was only one step. In my opinion, way too early for launch. It shouldn't have been just one step, it should have been a running start. Oh - and yes you do compare with other MMO's and other games. Would you give a new car company some slack just because it's their first year producing cars, and their model didnt pass the Encap safety test? No, you don't. You still compare that company with other companies that have been producing cars for the bigger part of the last century. Games have come a long way since pong. And cars too. Edited February 13, 2012 by bubbathehut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abruptum Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Even so, with BW starting fresh in this genre, they managed to copy every detail - down to their very flaws - from the rest of the MMO genre. Making this "just another MMO". There's a good reason why people are saying "If you've played one, you've played them all." Oh - and yes you do compare with other MMO's and other games. Would you give a new car company some slack just because it's their first year producing cars, and their model didnt pass the Encap safety test? No, you don't. You still compare that company with other companies that have been producing cars for the bigger part of the last century. Games have come a long way since pong. And cars too. This. How sad is it to be saying "well, our main competitor's product was just like this seven years ago!"? Very. You'd think seven years of technological progress would mean The Old Republic is a superior game right out of the box, but it's not. To further your analogy, Nissan would not release a model of car that has various glaring problems and doesn't pass the Encap safety test and then say "well hey, it's better than riding a bike, give us six months and it'll be just as good as an Aston Martin is now!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) This. How sad is it to be saying "well, our main competitor's product was just like this seven years ago!"? Very. You'd think seven years of technological progress would mean The Old Republic is a superior game right out of the box, but it's not. To further your analogy, Nissan would not release a model of car that has various glaring problems and doesn't pass the Encap safety test and then say "well hey, it's better than riding a bike, give us six months and it'll be just as good as an Aston Martin is now!" Points to when nissan/toyotas were having failing brakes and sticking accelerators that made cars crash and a mass recall was announced last year PS when have bioware ever come out and professed anything about what this game should have compared to anything ?, its only the playerbase doing that. Edited February 13, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abruptum Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Points to when nissan/toyotas were having failing brakes and sticking accelerators that made cars crash and a mass recall was announced last year PS when have bioware ever come out and professed anything about what this game should have compared to anything ?, its only the playerbase doing that. Let's change "would not" to "should not" as I had originally typed but decided to change, shall we Bioware said many times in interviews that they wanted TOR to break the mold for MMOs and get past the whole "kill 10 x" grind. Never happened. And I think it's fair to expect a game in 2012 by a AAA developer to be superior to a game released in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This game may be new, but I'm not new to the MMO game, and I don't need a year of extra development to know when a game is step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Let's change "would not" to "should not" as I had originally typed but decided to change, shall we Bioware said many times in interviews that they wanted TOR to break the mold for MMOs and get past the whole "kill 10 x" grind. Never happened. And I think it's fair to expect a game in 2012 by a AAA developer to be superior to a game released in 2004. But, but, but.... there's story. Don't forget the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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